High School Musical

mac81

This is my first time posting a thread, so if I'm not doing something right, please let me know.

My wife volunteered my services to the Musical in two weeks so I need some assistance on the setup of my camera.
I’m ok at taking action shots, but not so good at theater shots.
My gear consists of Nikon:
D50
18-55mm 3.5-5.6
70-300mm 4-5.6

50mm f/1.8D
85mm f/1.8D
70-200mm f/2.8 AF-S VR
SB-600
And I just purchased the D300 a couple of days ago. Still learning.

Last night I took some shots primarily with the 70-200mm and the shutter was too slow.
I did not use flash. I prefer not too, unless you tell me in order to get great shots I need to use a flash.
I tried all four setups, but obviously I’m not using the right combination.
By reading, it seems like I need to use the 50mm or 85mm.
Should I be using S, A, P, or M?
Should I be using auto ISO?
What f-stop?
With the D300 how much can one crank up the ISO and still how little or no noise?
Should I be focusing on their face? I’m used to focusing on the number of their jersey.

I have many questions, so I was hoping that you could answer some of them or send me in the right direction.
I have Wed & Thurs to practice some more before the dress rehearsal on Fri, Sat, & Sun.

P.S. What lens should I use for the cast photo? Only 55 cast members! Oh boy!

Any help would be appreciated.

Chris

banbro

Chris... I am sure you will get some good replies but I thought i would just share what I have found works for me. I shoot a lot of ballet performances, from the audience, in dark theatres with only stage lights and flash is not allowed. A lot of what you choose to shoot with will depend on environment settings... how far from the performers you are, how much ambient light is available, the quality of the stage lights etc... but for certain I think you can rule out using the 18-55 and the 70-300 unless you are well lit or have remote flash set up just off stage.

I generally use my 70-200 2.8 since the area the studio allows me to shoot from is a fair distance from the stage and it gives me some flexibility for tighter or looser shots. I shoot in manual mode and set the apperature at 2.8, the ISO at 800 and the shutter speed fluctuates depending on the lighting for that particular scene.

Both of your 1.8 lenses will obviously be better for light than the 70-200 and, if you have any action on stage, will allow for faster shutter speeds to minimize blur. Definitly take advantage of your practice sessions and find out if the conditions during rehearsal, lighting etc..., will be the same for the performance so that you can better plan for your shots. You may also want to consider both bodies so that you can mount different lenses and have some options during the performance. The 70-200 and the 85 should be sufficient for a theatre setting and the 50 would offer you a broader view of the stage. Another thing I would recommend is shooting in RAW, if you have the memory capacity to accomodate it, as it will give you more range for post processing after images are copied onto your computer.

Try some different things during the rehearsals and don't be afraid to experiment. When you find what works you will then be able to concentrate on the shots you will capture and not dwell on worries of the shot turning out.

For your group shot I would use the 50 1.8... I don't think you can go wrong there.


Good luck with your shoot... let us know how it comes out.

mike_k

One thing I would add - just like in sports photography it helps to know the game, for this gig it will help to know the musical. I play in an orchestra that provides pit orchestras for some local children's theaters. The guy who does the photography shows up for the dress rehearsal, takes some shots and is done. Because of my interest in photography, I notice what he's doing and what he's shooting. By the day of the dress rehearsal I know all of the scenes and the key moments in the play. More often than not, this guy misses them. He's either in the wrong place, or simply isn't ready because he doesn't know what's coming next.

My advice is to watch the play during one of the early full rehearsals. Take some notes if you have to of the key moments. Know where you need to be.

Good luck!

kuzzy

By no means am I an expert but I did just recently shoot a high school play and was fairly satisfied with the results. This will give you an idea of what i did.

Nikon D70 w/50 1.8 & 85 1.8
manual exposure
ISO 1600
Shutter and aperture varied but aperture was mostly wide open @ 1.8
I mostly used the spot meter
I was constantly changing based on the lighting of any given scene.

I have found that my D70 tends to underexpose slightly and since nothing brings out the noise better then underexposed shots I tend to shoot more manually under these type of circumstances.

I try to never use my flash for these situations because i like the more natural look of the stage lighting at the time.

I am sure that there are many others out there with more experience in this area but i hope this helps a little.

DavidTO

I've moved this to our Technique forum.

Halite

You almost certainly won't be able to use your flash during the show, since it will disrupt the performance for the actors and audience. So you will be relying on the stage lights as your only available light. Generally speaking, in order to get enough shutter speed to obtain sharp images, you're going to need to crank the ISO around 1250 to 1600 and keep the aperture wide open. My D70 produces a fair amount of noise in the shadows at these ISO's, but everything I've read about the D300 suggests it will perform great in this situation. The 70-200 will give you the reach you'll generally need to isolate action on the stage. So bring the D300 with the 70-200VR and you'll be great. If you want to get some wider shots, you could also bring the D50 with the 50mm (and maybe get by with a lower ISO since the 50mm is faster).

Either set the camera on aperture priority (A) with the aperture as open as possible--e.g., 2.8 on the 70-200--or shoot on manual (M) with the aperture set to 2.8 and keep adjusting the shutter speed to achieve proper exposure. The tradeoff between the two modes: Aperture will be easier to use but will likely give you some badly exposed shots when the camera meters on a dark part of the stage. Manual requires more work watching the exposure levels as the lighting levels change, but will give you more accurate exposures. In manual mode if you spot meter on an actor's face and then set the aperture and shutter, you should get pretty good exposures without a lot of adjustment until the stage light level changes.

Definitely focus on their faces.

Mike_k's advice is spot on. You will have much more success if you know the play and can anticipate the defining moments--e.g., the big kiss between the romantic leads, the conclusion to a show-stopping dance number. Bring lots of memory cards and fire away at key moments (as long as your neighbors around you aren't too annoyed by the sound of the shutter firing).

Have fun with the shoot. By the way, what is the musical?

SloYerRoll

Find out if you can use a strobe. I think you may be surprised how many directors at the HS level will be OK w/ it. After all, the parents will be taking tons of shots and I guarantee they'll be using flash.

The 1.8 is great for low light situations. But I wouldn't keep your blinders on and jsut shoot fast glass all night. Most of the time the theater lighting (if done even half decently will provide you enough light to use your 3.5 - 4.5 glass wide open. When you use fast glass wide open. You end up showing things in the shots that weren't intended to be see in the first place.

Spot metering is your friend. Make sure you don't use any one type of metering. If you do, you could have some major issues in post production w/ under/overexposed shots.

Scrap the D50 and move onto the D300. The D50 at high ISO is actually better than my D200. But after laying abit more w/ my wifes D300, I'm finding it's unrivaled at high ISO. Use some of your slower glass and crank up the ISO. There's a bit of a learning curve for the D300. But as long as you understand the basics about exposure, DOF etc. You'll be fine.

Tell the people that your shooting for your skill level and be very honest by saying that you've never shot a dark event like this (or whatever the truth is). It can be esy to let ppl talk you up but can backfire if you don't walk the talk.

Don't be scared of the dark. Sometimes having an underexposed shot can be a good thing. It can create a mood that's not possible w/ a well exposed shot.

See the examples below. I have other shots that use flash and are well exposed. But anyone can do that. This is jsut to provide ideas to show that you don't HAVE to have fast light or a strobe to get results.

If you have any questions about the above. I'll be happy to go into more detail.

Cheers,
-Jon

Halite

SloYerRoll wrote:

Find out if you can use a strobe. I think you may be surprised how many directors at the HS level will be OK w/ it. After all, the parents will be taking tons of shots and I guarantee they'll be using flash.

Not to pick a fight here, but strobes don't belong in a theater performance setting. Strobes disrupt the performance for the audience and distract the performers. Even if other parents are flashing away, don't join in.

If you want to use strobes for shots, see if you can do this during a rehearsal where you can have the kids hit a few poses from key scenes from the show. Chances are, however, that the director, cast and crew will not want the disruption of a crucial practice in the last days leading up to showtime.

SloYerRoll

Halite wrote:

Not to pick a fight here, but strobes don't belong in a theater performance setting. Strobes disrupt the performance for the audience and distract the performers. Even if other parents are flashing away, don't join in.

If you want to use strobes for shots, see if you can do this during a rehearsal where you can have the kids hit a few poses from key scenes from the show. Chances are, however, that the director, cast and crew will not want the disruption of a crucial practice in the last days leading up to showtime.

Your not picking a fight. You just have your opinion and I have mine. We'll agree to disagree.

I'm of the opinion that this is high school. There aren't any talent scouts out there looking for the next big thing. (though now thinking about it, that wouldn't surprise me nowdays)

BTW you'll se if you hang around a while, I'm a lighting nut

henryp

banbro wrote:

Try some different things during the rehearsals...

I shot high school & college stuff professionally for 20+ years. You DEFINITELY want to be shooting the dress rehearsals, even more than the performances. You will have more latitude, your activitiesd won't disrupt the audience, cooperation from the directors is more likely.

mac81

Thanks for feedback & one more question
Thanks for all the information.
The musical is a HS play called "Meet Me In St. Louis".
I will not be using strobes.
So far, my practice shots are not worthy to post.
I tried the four setting, but I'll use M Fri.
Next time I'll use the spot meter and focus on their face.
Sometimes their face was washed out and other times not quite in focus. Lots of black & white outfits.
Maybe I just had the shutter set too low.
Maybe that's my problem
Who knows.
The dress rehearsal is Fri, Sat, & Mon.

I have one more question. Should I set the AF-area mode to single point AF instead of dynamic area AF?

Thanks again,

Chris

SloYerRoll

mac81 wrote:

Should I set the AF-area mode to single point AF instead of dynamic area AF?

Yes.

mac81

Thanks
The Musical turned out great!!!
Here are a few photos from the Musical.
If anyone has anymore suggestions, please let me know.
Thanks again.
Chris

DSC_1190.jpg