Please advise. Parent complaint

ballhog

I've recently been taking pictures at the local soccer field and selling them at the field with the president and board's permission. I had one parent complain that I should not be allowed to do this. How do I know what legal rights I have incase this becomes an issue? It is a side business. Most all parents have been supportive. I know that it is done at soccer tournaments frequently. I feel that the area is public property. I don't feel it is illegal. Am I correct?

sportsshooter06

ballhog wrote:

I've recently been taking pictures at the local soccer field and selling them at the field with the president and board's permission. I had one parent complain that I should not be allowed to do this. How do I know what legal rights I have incase this becomes an issue? It is a side business. Most all parents have been supportive. I know that it is done at soccer tournaments frequently. I feel that the area is public property. I don't feel it is illegal. Am I correct?

It's shabby imho

jerryr

Sorry to hear - please dont let "one bad apple spoil the bunch"
Ok - question - did you sign a contract with the president/board ???
Might not be a bad idea - thus, anyone complains, you have 'legal' proof
that you were 'contracted' by the organization to perform your services...

Usually with sports, the complaints I get is that there is not enough pictures !! hmmm - not a bad complaint if you think about it !

- jerryr

TralfazPhoto

As I understand it, you are in a public place and so are they. You can take anyones picture that is there and there is nothing they can do about it. If they dont want their picture taken, then please hide or leave.

If, however, you take a picture of a person and they are the main subject of the picture and are easily identified, you need a model release to display the image publically or offer it for sale to someone else besides them. (i'm sure thats a run on sentance btw)

David Evertsen

One Parent

ballhog wrote:

I've recently been taking pictures at the local soccer field and selling them at the field with the president and board's permission. I had one parent complain that I should not be allowed to do this. How do I know what legal rights I have incase this becomes an issue? It is a side business. Most all parents have been supportive. I know that it is done at soccer tournaments frequently. I feel that the area is public property. I don't feel it is illegal. Am I correct?

As a former PTA President, School advisory Council Chairman, Preschool Board President and Still a Parent. There is always one that will not like even the most well intentioned ideas. Even for Photography, ignore them. We always did and they will get over it. If the Club says you are okay, you are okay. That one person can get over it. Imagine if one person objected and the other 434 or 99 approved the measure. This country does not work that way..

Shoot away there are many parents I am sure that are extremely happy with your time and efforts. Please remember you can't please everyone. I think just because you are taking pictures we go out of our way to please but this time. The ONE parent is wrong...

David
www.phabulousphotos.com

SavedByZero

ballhog wrote:

I've recently been taking pictures at the local soccer field and selling them at the field with the president and board's permission. I had one parent complain that I should not be allowed to do this. How do I know what legal rights I have incase this becomes an issue? It is a side business. Most all parents have been supportive. I know that it is done at soccer tournaments frequently. I feel that the area is public property. I don't feel it is illegal. Am I correct?

There is always one complainer in every crowd. Next time one says something to you, ask for their childs number(s) and avoid shooting them at all costs. And to answer your question you have every legal right to photograph the game with or with our the boards or parents permission as it's in public domain.

LUCKYSHOT

sportsshooter06 wrote:

It's shabby imho

I feel stupid asking this, but, What is IMHO? I keep seeing all these acronyms and its been killing me not knowing. no,I do not text.

As for the Parent, Ignore her And stick to SavedbyZero's advice, no need inviting Grief. once the other parents start talking about the fantastic pics they have of their kids, she will realize she has none of her own and she will come around
All the best
Chris
www.longislandimage.com

TralfazPhoto

LUCKYSHOT wrote:

I feel stupid asking this, but, What is IMHO? I keep seeing all these acronyms and its been killing me not knowing. no,I do not text.

As for the Parent, Ignore her And stick to SavedbyZero's advice, no need inviting Grief. once the other parents start talking about the fantastic pics they have of their kids, she will realize she has none of her own and she will come around
All the best
Chris
www.longislandimage.com

IMHO:
In My Humble Opinion

Try this out
http://kb.iu.edu/data/adkc.html

TralfazPhoto

ballhog wrote:

I've recently been taking pictures at the local soccer field and selling them at the field with the president and board's permission. I had one parent complain that I should not be allowed to do this. How do I know what legal rights I have incase this becomes an issue? It is a side business. Most all parents have been supportive. I know that it is done at soccer tournaments frequently. I feel that the area is public property. I don't feel it is illegal. Am I correct?

Here is a handy little thing that pretty much sums it all up for you.

http://www.krages.com/ThePhotographersRight.pdf

vaio2006

I usually ignore it, and if they keep on comfronting me I just tell them "Please go talk to ______ [the coach, boss, etc] and file a complaint"
and that complaint never reaches my level....

dbaker1221

I 've had one parent ask me not to take photos of their kid in the 2 years i've done this. ...I told them that I would take their kids pics off of my site & if I accidentally shoot them again & put them up , just let me know & I'll remove the shots.....I also have this posted on my opening page to my site.

you might as well take them off cause the parents are not gonna buy anyway.
good luck.

acidburn_85

I have never had this happen to me but read about it many times, I would just state to them to please talk to the AD or president of the board and like another poster said it will never reach you. What cracks me up about this is that they act like the kids full name address and social are embroidered on there jerseys....Thinking back I did have another photog try to tell me that I was in his domain and that I must leave at once he stated he had a contract and that the President would confirm this....So I went to the president and asked him about the contract and his reply was there was no contract this is a public ball park shoot all the pictures you like.

System

TralfazPhoto wrote:

Here is a handy little thing that pretty much sums it all up for you.

http://www.krages.com/ThePhotographersRight.pdf

Great information, it's just sad that it has come to a point where we have to print informaiton like this up and post it so that one person might read it.

ballhog

WoW! I never dreamed I'd get so many answers! Thanks so much for the support! I'm just gonna keep on shooting...

vaio2006

ballhog wrote:

WoW! I never dreamed I'd get so many answers! Thanks so much for the support! I'm just gonna keep on shooting...

:ivar thats what all of us are here for: to share our experience
Good choice

ballhog

No contrat signed, but the president and board are getting free pictures for the associations website. The parents sign a press release at enrollment to play soccer. Every member has been VERY supportive. No one is doing action shots locally.

Until Last Saturday the only complaint I'd ever had was "not enough pictures" I have too many requests for pictures too keep up anyway.:)

jerryr wrote:

Sorry to hear - please dont let "one bad apple spoil the bunch"
Ok - question - did you sign a contract with the president/board ???
Might not be a bad idea - thus, anyone complains, you have 'legal' proof
that you were 'contracted' by the organization to perform your services...

Usually with sports, the complaints I get is that there is not enough pictures !! hmmm - not a bad complaint if you think about it !

- jerryr

ballhog

That is exactly what I did this time.:D

SavedByZero wrote:

There is always one complainer in every crowd. Next time one says something to you, ask for their childs number(s) and avoid shooting them at all costs. And to answer your question you have every legal right to photograph the game with or with our the boards or parents permission as it's in public domain.

ballhog

I read it. You were right! Very helpful. Thanks

TralfazPhoto wrote:

Here is a handy little thing that pretty much sums it all up for you.

http://www.krages.com/ThePhotographersRight.pdf

SavedByZero

ballhog wrote:

That is exactly what I did this time.:D

And just make sure that any pictures the league or team uses of yours for any promotion, posters, calendars, website or year books ALSO do not include that/those kid(s). And if you do any team pictures, I'd go as far as asking that kid(s) to be removed or you don't shoot the picture due to the parents earlier request. And when little Aston or Morgan ask their mom and dad why there are no pictures showing them playing like all their friends I hope the parent has an answer for them.

Any parent got in my face like that would not be forgotten or forgiven for years to come and sadly thier child would suffer from the negative experience.

James Broome

TralfazPhoto wrote:

If, however, you take a picture of a person and they are the main subject of the picture and are easily identified, you need a model release to display the image publically or offer it for sale to someone else besides them. (i'm sure thats a run on sentance btw)

Ouch! Terrible advice.

If someone is in a public place and has their picture taken, they have almost no rights to privacy. Unless you plan on using the resulting image in a commercial way (just posting it on your website isn't by law considered 'commercial'), then you don't need a model release.

snaptie2002

Good morning,

I remember the first time I encountered that situation.

It sure sucks the fun out of things for a while.

The best advice I was given at the time was to keep it brief and simple.

Just tell them you have permission from the league/park/school which ever the case may be and move on.

If you tell them to go talk to so and so who knows how that might turn out. So and so may think he needs to address the complaint and then things can get complicated.

There is still some gray area in the law. You will hear lots of opinions and some general "rights" dissertations but I have yet to see any clear cut laws that say you can or can not post and sell photos of minors without the consent of a legal gaurdian. Believe me, I would like to. I have between ten and twenty thousand posted at any given time.

One thing we all need to keep in mind though. Until the law catches up with the technology that started the online photo boom we need to be ambassadors of the business. If we bully our way onto the fields using our "photographer's rights" as a shield the decision makers will not be so kind to us. Especially if we do something like refuse to remove a child's photo and something bad happens as a result.


Thanks,
Marty

HaveCameraWillTravel

Legal Rights as a Photographer

TralfazPhoto wrote: »

Here is a handy little thing that pretty much sums it all up for you.

http://www.krages.com/ThePhotographersRight.pdf

I checked it out. Great info, thanks. And all this time I was blurring out every face in my published pictures that showed people in the background (not the main subject) over fear of being sued for photographing a person who could identify themselves in the shot and say "Hey! You didn't get my consent!".

It's pretty hard to shoot city scenes without people in them!!!

By the way, has anyone else had a problem posting images on Dgrin? It seems Smugmug has changed the syntax of image links to photos in member's galleries, and they don't parse right in forums now.

Andy

HaveCameraWillTravel wrote: »

By the way, has anyone else had a problem posting images on Dgrin? It seems Smugmug has changed the syntax of image links to photos in member's galleries, and they don't parse right in forums now.

Use Share>Get a Link and you can't ever go wrong. Please write our Support Heroes if you need help thanks.

donek

Every year I photograph the local School Accountability report for the newspaper. There are occasionally students who's pictures are rejected for safety reasons. One parent is a criminal and looking for them, or the kid has been adopted/fostered due to parental or some sort of abuse. It's important to acknowledge that sometimes people with complaints such as you've encountered may have very real concerns for their child's safety. As stated, be an ambassador for what you are doing and respect their wishes whenever possible. It would suck to be the photographer who's photo revealed the location of a victim in hiding.

Aside from that, public land and you're golden.

craig_d

TralfazPhoto wrote: »

If, however, you take a picture of a person and they are the main subject of the picture and are easily identified, you need a model release to display the image publically or offer it for sale to someone else besides them.

Nonsense. You need a model release mostly when the image is used in a commercial context, which is not the sale of the image itself, but the use of the image to promote some product or service.

This page is the best resource I have found on the subject: http://www.danheller.com/model-release.html

Got Grins?

Can anyone share a contract that they use to photograph sporting events/tournaments? I need one and I would appreciate it...thanks

nipprdog

*********

Glort

acidburn_85 wrote: »

What cracks me up about this is that they act like the kids full name address and social are embroidered on there jerseys.

Exactly!

The other one that ticks me off badly with it's stupidity is parents with a bigger shoe size than their IQ try to convince others that their kids are going to be looked at by sexual predators if you put them on the net.

SO BLOODY WHAT?

You think that there aren't those kind of people in shopping centers, Bus stops and railway stations and any other public place? You also think that these types are going to spend their time looking for kids that are fully clothed like they could just walk down the street and go tot he park where your kid is playing ans see them??

Thats like saying randy high school kids looking for naked girlie pics in the newsagents are going to go trolling through Gardening and knitting magazines to get their kicks.
The weirdos know where to find what they want to get their sick thrills and it aint on photographers sites of kids playing sport.

If some weirdo looks at my kids, what am i going to do? Keep them indoors and never let them out of the house?
Yeah Right!

I have had all sorts of BS thrown at me from idiots about alleged child protection rules to privacy and a few other laughable loads of rubbish. It first came up when i was shooting my son's baseball games just for the family.
I wrote away to all the different authorities and child protection groups explaining what I wanted to do and asking for them to quote any specific legislation regarding what I was referring to. They all got back to me and said that there was nothing stopping me photographing my or any other kid on a public sports field and as long as i wasn't trying to shoot anything that would be regarded as a private area such as toilets or change rooms, I could shoot what I wanted.

There is also a document a lawyer put together regarding the laws in Oz on this and I have a laminated copy in my shooting vest and several plain paper copys as well ready to hand out to any rabble rousing pain in the butt that trys that rubbish on with me again.

I did get challenged on it once at a big baseball tournament my son was playing in and the officialdom threatened if I didn't leave they would call the cops and have me arrested. Knowing my rights I layed down a few home truths, one of them being that they were free to call the cops and when I saw one I would be pressing charges against them for coercion. They stormed off telling me they were going to call the council rangers, the cops and everyone from Santa Claus to the Tooth fairy but i continued shooting my kids teams games for 2 more days in plain view and never saw or heard from anyone again.

There are some people that just have boring unfulfilled lives that will try to make an issue out of anything they can to get a bit of recognition they exist and make themselves out to be important, informed, intelligent and everything else they damn well know they are not.

I either ignore them or lay down a few facts and continue on doing what I know is my legal right to do.

Damon016

I just advise them that I am shooting for the school, or what not... and I will not get images of their child and be done with it. It is difficult when you're trying to capture every kid to keep the other one out though. I agree with most of the above when I get parents that say "please shoot more" for me. Maybe have the pres.. speak to that individual for you.

Overfocused

Got a copy of said document? (to share)

Overfocused

richy wrote: »

Just because you can does not mean you should. If somebody politely makes a reasonable request why be an ass?

That's the thing... politely and reasonable apply to very few situations. Lol.