Phoxle Flash Match Filters- Review

jeffreaux2

A year or so ago I began using a 1/2 CTB Lee filter gel to help balance my flash color with that of the outdoor shady conditions I seek out for outdoor portrait work.

Recently I came to know that fellow Dgrinner Chris Pederson is selling a new product for color correcting flash units. Phoxle flash match filters seemed to be worth looking into. Photos of the set are available here on Chris's site.
http://www.pqphotography.com/gallery/4226002#247168008_775vm

Also, here is a link to the Phoxle website

http://phoxle.homestead.com/index.html

THe set included 5 gels. Two blues and three oranges for matching your flash's output to outdoor conditions as well as interior lighting. To date, I have only used two of the gels. I have taken approximately 800 frames using the lighter of the two blues, and a handfull of shots using the medium toned orange filter. The blue one that I have used so much is still in great shape and ready to go for my next shoot.

All of the gels are stored in an ingenious case that includes a lanyard to wear it around your neck if you desire. This would be convienient for an event photographer who is moving from one area to another through various mixed lighting conditions who needs to have quick access to different gels on the go. My newest ...probably bad...habit is simply to pull the adhesive gel from the flash lens and stick it to the side of the flash head when I do not need it. The adhesive is similar to what one would expect on a "sticky-note" and leaves no residue on the flash lens...even after extended use in hot conditions.

I was at first afraid that I would have to trim them to fit inside the opening on my Lightsphere. I have found that if I open the top of it that I can then apply the gel to the flash lens. I doubt it would work with an omni-bounce without modification.

My conclusion is that Chris has a very nice and usefull product. It is an excellent choice for someone who is wanting to experiment with color correcting flash gels to get in on the game....without having sooo many different gels as to cause confusion.

Whats Hot? The storage case and reusability.

Whats Not? I wish the case were 18% grey and that the set included something for flourecent lighting.

Sample photos using the gels.
Note...all of these have been processed using my normal methods from RAW files. Maybe less scientific than what many of you would like to see, but I prefer to see results more than comparisons.

Outdoors with the 6500K to 8000K Blue gel on a 580EXII










Indoors with the 6500K to 4000K Organge Gel

ian408

Thank you for the review!

gluwater

Awesome review Jeff. Maybe someone should put this in the Reviews...hint hint.

jeffreaux2

In my remarks I said I thought that the case should be 18% grey, and the kit should include something for flourescent matching. In truth, that is being very nitpicky. It is an excellent product as is. Those two items mentioned are only my idea of what would make it a better product.

Also, Chris is very knowledgable on the technical aspects of color temperature, balance, and all things related to light. He not only doesn't seem to mind being pestered about such things, but rather welcomes discussion on the matter.

Scott_Quier

Thanks for the great information Jeff. There's information here that's missing from other sources. The one thing that I missed elsewhere was the fact that there's nothing to help with fluorescent lighting and that's a DNQ in my book. I'll guess I'll have to stick with my version of this product - a cut out from a CTO or green gel applied to my flash with a piece of cellophane tape - it works.

jeffreaux2

Scott_Quier wrote:

Thanks for the great information Jeff. There's information here that's missing from other sources. The one thing that I missed elsewhere was the fact that there's nothing to help with fluorescent lighting and that's a DNQ in my book. I'll guess I'll have to stick with my version of this product - a cut out from a CTO or green gel applied to my flash with a piece of cellophane tape - it works.

There is no green!!!:D

...but...I have been in contact via email with Chris. He was kind enough to spend time putting me through color temperature shift kindergarden in another thread here....

http://www.dgrin.com/showthread.php?t=86669

He seemed pretty intent on trying to include a filter similar in shift to the LEE filter I had been using in future production runs. That of course remains to be seen, but he is sensitive to what REAL photographers think about his product. He also wants to sell it. So. He is aware of this thread ...and others pertaining to the filters, and I am willing to bet that if he feels that not including green is detrimental to sales, then he might be willing to shift the kit around a bit in the future. He is a very approachable and knowledgable guy....and also very common sense.

FWIW. I think that aside from the green, everything else is basically covered.

As for your version of this kit.

I still have some of that same "kit" in my bag. It does work, and is very durable...long lasting.

ChrisP6

Thanks for the Review & Feedback!
Fellow DGrinners -- Sorry to be late to the party, but I'll chime in now if that's ok.

Jeff -- as always, awesome photos! You get a great look with the mix of flash and ambient light.

Thanks to everyone on this thread and others for all of the feedback! I really appreciate it, and hope to address many of the concerns and suggestions over time. Feedback is a gift, and I am grateful.

Now to some specifics:
* Size comes up a lot. Some people want something bigger, and I've heard the message, so we'll work on that. Some people want something smaller, and we'll work on that too. The request for smaller comes from a concern about being able to fit flash diffuser attachments over the thicker handle end of the filter if it overlaps the end of the flash. Cutting a little off of the other end of the filter, makes this a non-issue. I know it's not ideal, but it works. The material is fairly thin (2.6 mil) and cuts easily with scissors.
* Jeff's suggestion that the case be 18% gray is great. Though the case isn't 18% reflectance (more like 80%), it is a very neutral color -- as neutral as my Lastolite EZBalance. The case tests at about -1.0, -1.0 (a, b deviation from neutral) versus the Lastolite at -0.8, -1.9. The spectrum is also very flat. It's a textured aluminum surface that is relatively free from specular reflections. I've used it for white-balance, and though I prefer the Phoxle SpectraSnap White Balance Filter, it works in a pinch.
* Other filter colors are also something we want to get to. Fluorescent is a bit of a challenge, since there are so many variations, but I'm sure we can add some choices that will improve our ability to match in a wider range of circumstances. What we've found in our own tests though, is that getting close is so much better than having no control, that for those not already experienced with swatch-packs, even having the 5 color choices is a big help. When you combine these choices with the ability to color-balance in-camera for the light from the flash through the filter, it really makes a difference in the looks that can be acheived.

Again, we know we're far from perfect, and value all of the feedback to help us improve. We'll get there over time, and will enjoy the process too.

Chris
Phoxle Founder

jeffreaux2

Update
I have had more time now experimenting with the CTO gels indoors with very good results.

One issue I did have is with the darkest of Phoxle's CT Orange gels. I had noticed a darkish spot on it after completing a wedding recently. The following week I needed it for a concert. The spot was fairly black at the end of the concert. It is my guess, that as the gel heats up and darkens that the dark spot retains even more heat. In other words, after a dark spot appears, it is compounded by further use. I did not suffer any damage to the lens of the flash, but it stands to reason that I could have. I have not noticed this with any of the less dense orange gels.

FWIW, I used a LEE 3/4 CTO for another event a week or so later at the same venue as the concert. Although it did not change color, it did appear that it had been affected by the heat. There was visible warping in the center.

I am not sure how common this is, but it might be a good idea to keep an eye out for changes in appearance in your gels. Especially with the darker orange of this set.

pathfinder

Jeff, when shooting indoors with a CTO gel, did you set your camera for Tungsten white balance, or AWB, or what? Many shooters who use a CTO orange gel to balance the flash to tungsten lighting, use the tungsten setting for white balance also.

When using the blue gel out of doors, how did you set your camera's white balance?

Scott_Quier

pathfinder wrote:

Jeff, when shooting indoors with a CTO gel, did you set your camera for Tungsten white balance, or AWB, or what? Many shooters who use a CTO orange gel to balance the flash to tungsten lighting, use the tungsten setting for white balance also.

When using the blue gel out of doors, how did you set your camera's white balance?

I shoot a gray card and do the WB in post. This seems to work. Since I shoot RAW (exclusively), I thought this would be sufficient. Is it better to set the WB in camera? If so, what is the rationale - I just want to better understand.

TIA

pathfinder

Scott, since the actual color temperature of tungsten lights varies some due to age of the bulb and line voltage, I would think shooting a gray card and balancing in ARC is better.

The reason I asked is because David Hobbe talks at some length, though, about shooting in Tungsten white balance with the flash gelled with a CTO gel, and "Bobs your uncle"! I think it is just fast and easy is all.

I need to explore this some more I think.

BenA2

pathfinder wrote:

The reason I asked is because David Hobbe talks at some length, though, about shooting in Tungsten white balance with the flash gelled with a CTO gel, and "Bobs your uncle"! I think it is just fast and easy is all.

I go with David Hobby's method. I shoot tungsten white balance when I have a full CTO on the flash. On top of that, I do not bother with shooting a gray card to white balance later. The reason for that is that I do not like theoretically "perfect" white balance with tungsten-illuminated images. I prefer that they be a little warmer than true neutral. So, all my white balancing has to be done by eye in RAW conversion anyway. But, shooting with the Tungsten WB setting in camera gives me a pretty good representation of what I'll get after processing, with very little effort at shoot time.

Where things get frustrating is when I'm shooting with a 1/2 CTO. I'd love to be able to set WB to 4000K in that case, but Mr. Canon won't let me do that.

ChrisP6

jeffreaux2 wrote:

I have had more time now experimenting with the CTO gels indoors with very good results.

One issue I did have is with the darkest of Phoxle's CT Orange gels. I had noticed a darkish spot on it after completing a wedding recently. The following week I needed it for a concert. The spot was fairly black at the end of the concert. It is my guess, that as the gel heats up and darkens that the dark spot retains even more heat. In other words, after a dark spot appears, it is compounded by further use. I did not suffer any damage to the lens of the flash, but it stands to reason that I could have. I have not noticed this with any of the less dense orange gels.

FWIW, I used a LEE 3/4 CTO for another event a week or so later at the same venue as the concert. Although it did not change color, it did appear that it had been affected by the heat. There was visible warping in the center.

I am not sure how common this is, but it might be a good idea to keep an eye out for changes in appearance in your gels. Especially with the darker orange of this set.

Jeff,
Sorry to hear you had this problem. We'd like to replace your filter and get yours to examine so we can trouble-shoot the problem. I'll drop one in the mail today with a stamped envelope for the return if that's alright. BTW, which flash were you using?
Chris

Manfr3d

It looks like a quality product. For those of us who want to spend less
to experiment with color correction there is the $0.01 (yes, one cent)
alternative:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/45189-REG/Rosco_950SBLUX0103_Roscolux_Swatchbook.html

Well equiped camera shops also carry those and give them away for free if you ask.

The filters size happens to be exactly the size of a normal flashhead.
The CTO (correct to orange) and CTB (correct to blue) are the filters
you'll want to try from the stack.

jeffreaux2

pathfinder wrote:

Jeff, when shooting indoors with a CTO gel, did you set your camera for Tungsten white balance, or AWB, or what? Many shooters who use a CTO orange gel to balance the flash to tungsten lighting, use the tungsten setting for white balance also.

When using the blue gel out of doors, how did you set your camera's white balance?

Indoors I have been setting CWB using a piece of white cardstock. Why? By looking at the orange tint of my WB source shot I can make an educated guess on which gel to use. It probably doesn't really matter how you set WB if you are shooting RAW. I tend to lean warm with my final WB in Lightroom. That is my unscientific approach, but it has gotten me decent results.....at least I am happy with them!

Outdoors I take pretty much an opposite approach. I shoot in "cloudy" WB on my canon. Again, I shoot RAW here and make adjustments to my own tastes in post, but since I lean warm....this WB gives me the nearest preview to what my final image will look like. I move around a lot outdoors from spot to spot with the light changing constantly. Technically mine may not be the best approach, but it works for me. Again, if you are going to set WB in a RAW editor it probably matters very little what WB you are actually capturing in....but this gives me the nearest glimpse of what is to come.

jeffreaux2

ChrisP6 wrote:

Jeff,
Sorry to hear you had this problem. We'd like to replace your filter and get yours to examine so we can trouble-shoot the problem. I'll drop one in the mail today with a stamped envelope for the return if that's alright. BTW, which flash were you using?
Chris

Thanks Chris, I have responded to your email. You are a very on-the -ball type of guy!

I use the 580EXII Canon.

jeffreaux2

pathfinder wrote:

Scott, since the actual color temperature of tungsten lights varies some due to age of the bulb and line voltage, I would think shooting a gray card and balancing in ARC is better.

The reason I asked is because David Hobbe talks at some length, though, about shooting in Tungsten white balance with the flash gelled with a CTO gel, and "Bobs your uncle"! I think it is just fast and easy is all.

I need to explore this some more I think.

I recently shot a wedding where I shot a white source for my CWB. IT took me more than a few shots to narrow it down to which particular lights were providing the dominant source/color in the room....as there were different types of fixtures everywhere. This is another nod in the direction of setting a CWB for indoor work in my book.

pathfinder

jeffreaux2 wrote:

I recently shot a wedding where I shot a white source for my CWB. IT took me more than a few shots to narrow it down to which particular lights were providing the dominant source/color in the room....as there were different types of fixtures everywhere. This is another nod in the direction of setting a CWB for indoor work in my book.

Jeff,

You said you had to shootseveral shots of a white target to get an accurate custom white balance..... Would this be an argument for shooting with a "shoot through filter" like the Expodisc or the Spectrasnap in this particular situation? Shooting a frame from the subjects position at the brightest lights might avoid some of having to shoot more than one frame of a white target. Maybe??

jeffreaux2

pathfinder wrote:

Jeff,

You said you had to shootseveral shots of a white target to get an accurate custom white balance..... Would this be an argument for shooting with a "shoot through filter" like the Expodisc or the Spectrasnap in this particular situation? Shooting a frame from the subjects position at the brightest lights might avoid some of having to shoot more than one frame of a white target. Maybe??

You are possibly right. I'm not sure though. There was mixed lighting types in the room...so which one would I aim the thing at?....I very well could have had results all over the map if shooting different sources. I just shot under the various lights at a target and tried each out as a CWB until I found the one I thought best represented the venue. It was cavelike dim in there with absolutely no reflective surfaces anywhere....and most of the lights were aimed at artwork on the walls. This all occurred at the rehearsal, so I wasted no time at the wedding figuring this out. ...and I was able to also set up my assistant's camera for her. Easy as pie once I determined the dominant light source in the room.

For fun, here is a link to a post from the wedding I refer to...
http://www.dgrin.com/showthread.php?t=93464

jeffreaux2

ChrisP6 wrote:

Jeff,
Sorry to hear you had this problem. We'd like to replace your filter and get yours to examine so we can trouble-shoot the problem. I'll drop one in the mail today with a stamped envelope for the return if that's alright. BTW, which flash were you using?
Chris

Chris I sent the gel to you awhile back....any ideas on what happened?

ChrisP6

jeffreaux2 wrote:

Chris I sent the gel to you awhile back....any ideas on what happened?

We just returned from my Grandmother's 100'th Birthday Party which was in Glacier National Park. It was fun to revisit the location of last year's DGRIN Shootout. I haven't had a chance to analyze it yet, but it's here. I'll post as soon as I have a chance. Thanks!

ChrisP6

Phoxle Flash Match Filter "Burn-In" Test
Jeff & others,

I've done some pretty intensive examination and testing to try and duplicate Jeff's darkened filter, and here's what I've found.

First, I retested the darkened filter, and found that it still produces even illumination, and the same color shift as the factory new filters. Using a Canon 550EX flash, they both produced 2950K when bounced off of a wall I often use for testing. I'm glad we replaced Jeff's filter, because the light loss of a darkened filter would eventually amount to something significant, but at the point it's at, it's still negligible.

Second, I strife tested a new filter to try and reproduce the problem. With a new 3100K filter on the 550EX, and using an external power pack, to maximize flash firing rate, I shot 100 exposures at 1/32 power, 1/16 power, 1/8 power, 1/4 power, 1/2 power, and full power -- over 600 exposures taken as fast as the recycle time would allow. This seemed like a pretty extreme test, but that's the point. The upshot is that the color temperature shift of the filter didn't change throughout the test, and aside from some warming and slight curling at the edges of the filter, there was no sign of darkening. I even put a dark dot on the filter with a Sharpie pen, and made an additional series of shots at full-power to see if that would darken over time, but nothing happened. The bottom-line is that I don't know what caused Jeff's filter to darken, but it seems like it probably isn't due just to firing the flash in rapid succession at high power.

Another interesting finding is that this is a great way to heat up batteries After the test, I took the AA's out of the flash, and they were so hot, I couldn't hold them for more than a second or two before dropping them. The c-cells in the external battery pack were warm to the touch, but no where near as toasty.

Chris