Business Questions
Sam
Registered Users Posts: 7,419 Major grins
I have a few questions for you all.
First some background. I have been doing almost all of my own printing, so as long as I am doing the printing I have no issues I can't fix, but what happens if I sell a file to a client? I have had MPIX do some printing in the past, and didn't have ant issues.
I am trying to figure out how to develop a work flow / methodology that will allow a client to get a reasonable print at a local drugstore etc.
I decided to use a few shots that I took at a recent wedding as a test. I went to the Walgreen's down the street, and ordered a couple of 8X10 prints. They were not acceptable. It looked like the saturation, and contrast had been increased, and they were very yellow. They use a Fuji Frontier.
After talking with a supervisor / headquarters at Walgreen's I was told that the operator could turn off the "enhancement" but this would need to be done on each photo individually, and that there was not option on the kiosk for this. After reprinting, they weren't much better.
I will try a few more general photo stores, but how are you handling this?
Also do you create multiple files (specific sizes) for each image?
That could be a fair amount of of work depending on what the clients wants.
How do you handle aspect ratio? As an example Walgreen's only prints in 4x6, 5x7, and 8x10. No 8x12 etc. Costco however will print in 8x12, and 12x18.
Do you just give them a full res file at the native 2X3 ratio, and let them worry about cropping?
My concern here is that if I offer / provide a CD with image files, and the client can't get a reasonable print without jumping through hoops they will of course blame the photographer.
So what do you all do about this?
Sam
First some background. I have been doing almost all of my own printing, so as long as I am doing the printing I have no issues I can't fix, but what happens if I sell a file to a client? I have had MPIX do some printing in the past, and didn't have ant issues.
I am trying to figure out how to develop a work flow / methodology that will allow a client to get a reasonable print at a local drugstore etc.
I decided to use a few shots that I took at a recent wedding as a test. I went to the Walgreen's down the street, and ordered a couple of 8X10 prints. They were not acceptable. It looked like the saturation, and contrast had been increased, and they were very yellow. They use a Fuji Frontier.
After talking with a supervisor / headquarters at Walgreen's I was told that the operator could turn off the "enhancement" but this would need to be done on each photo individually, and that there was not option on the kiosk for this. After reprinting, they weren't much better.
I will try a few more general photo stores, but how are you handling this?
Also do you create multiple files (specific sizes) for each image?
That could be a fair amount of of work depending on what the clients wants.
How do you handle aspect ratio? As an example Walgreen's only prints in 4x6, 5x7, and 8x10. No 8x12 etc. Costco however will print in 8x12, and 12x18.
Do you just give them a full res file at the native 2X3 ratio, and let them worry about cropping?
My concern here is that if I offer / provide a CD with image files, and the client can't get a reasonable print without jumping through hoops they will of course blame the photographer.
So what do you all do about this?
Sam
0
Comments
of course ezprint, mpix & and my own are the only respectible ones out of the group...
if the customer shows signs of they want only a cd i do offer it but i re-establish the understanding of what they are getting.
and i make it clear that they can always return to me for better prints.....
when i do issue a cd i usually give them the post-processed jpeg without cropping anything....they can do it or the lab tech will do it for them....
im always amazed what a customer accepts and doesnt accept....i try not to let it get to me...
Thanks for the response. I am not letting it get to me.
I just try to understand as much as I can before developing a policy, or procedure.
Tying to make this as simple, and pain free for both myself, and the client.
I do, and will continue to try, and provide the absolute highest quality work that I can produce.
I am thinking about providing at least a few images I have printed, for reference, along with the CD, and a set of instructions with regard to print quality, cropping, aspect ratios etc. Do you think this will be too much information?
Sam
I think if you provide at least one reference 4x6 of at least one image on the CD you are handing over and say "this is how this file should look" then you have done about as much as you can. As per the cropping issue goes, I think I'd just hand over the 2:3 file and leave it at that.
A former sports shooter
Follow me at: https://www.flickr.com/photos/bjurasz/
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figure out your profile to use with that lab specifically...and let the client know the prints will be about 2/3's the qual of yours.....
(or ezprints/mpixs)
wedding5X7
wedding8X10
etc, to describe how to print. It is fraught with danger.
I have had my only (non lab) local luck with Ritz Photo. 8X10's there turn out good. Not as good as smugmug, and twice the price or more.
You can always ask that they print with you - either directly or via SM.
I havent found a good solution.
Z
they would have saved themselves x number in gas and time just paying you or I......and gotten better prints.....
people are crazy.....:D
also, if you get the chance goto marc muench print workshop.
I am thinking more generic here. My goal would be to prepare the file in such a way that the client could go almost anywhere in the US, and get at least an OK print. May not be possible. Looking for plan B.
“I think you could be giving most people too much information."
That is my fear as well.
“one things that i will never understand is people will drive from here to there and pay these gas prices, spend their time looking for a deal and end up printing at wal-mart...."
I do understand budgets, and the fact that clients would want to have the file for any future use. I would want the file for my event.
“also, if you get the chance goto marc muench print workshop."
As soon as that darn loto hits, I AM THERE!
Please keep coming with any and all thoughts, and ideas!
Sam
I think the key is client education. The trick, I think we agree, is to educate but not over-educate to the point their eyes glaze over.
Natural selection is responsible for every living thing that exists.
D3s, D500, D5300, and way more glass than the wife knows about.
Nikolai,
Some time in the future I will have a Smugmug account. I have nothing but the up-most respect, and admiration for the the whole Smugmug crew, along with confidence in their print quality, but many folks just want the files.
Plan B might be to optimize the files for a specific on line print supplier (MPIX), and just give them the files, and the web site address. That way if they try a local photo printer, and it comes back crap, they have a viable option from anywhere in the US.
Sam
when i tested many many labs(before ezprints went to kodak)
i would say the basic score rating went like this...
just some well know ones...
ezprints =10
mpix = 9.7
costco = 6
walgreens = 5
wal-mart = 4.5
mine = 9.5 (canon pro9500 w/ moab luster 270)
That's where I'm losing you.
1) get pro SM account
2) upload the files
3) give them the files or allow to download (free or at some price)
4) allow print ordering (this is a default option, so not much needs to be done anyway), set the price you want.
If they want the good prints, they can order as many as they want. If they opt for Wal-mart or Wal-green - that's their problem, not yours.
Aaron,
Thanks for the info.
I have to admit if ezprints, or any online (non hands on prolab) could produce a better print than I can, I would be stunned.
I prefer to print any and all fine art print orders myself personally. That way I have full control, and can / will take full responsibility for the quality, and the clients satisfaction.
I don't feel as strong about general event type photos, and would prefer not to print those. Unless of course there are a few very special prints the client would want printed larger to frame, and hang on the wall.
That said I just took a look at the ezprint web site, and might send them a few wedding test images.
Sam
Nikolai,
I know this is good advice, but at the present I am procrastinating, dragging my feet, etc, and putting the web site thing off for as long as possible.
I am reluctant, and fearful of the time commitment, and work this would involve. I estimate from 80 to 160 hours to layout the site, and resize, configure, optimize, test, etc, images for sale through Smugmug.
I am also looking for a self fulfillment option. When that becomes available I think I would be forced to bite the bullet.
Can you set different prices for different galleries? IE: Jack, and Mary smith bought a CD so for their gallery the print prices would be at a substantial discount. Henry, and Matilda who didn't opt for the CD purchase woiuld be looking at higher prices. The event prices would be less then the fine art prices on other galleries. Is this possible??
If you tell me yes, I'll agin be looking at bite the bulet time.
Sam
You can set prices at a portfolio level and you can override those prices at a gallery or at an individual photo level. Info at http://www.smugmug.com/help/print-pricing.
You might surprise yourself and like the smug site - although you're right, you lose control of the printing. Of course you could offer your self-print option too. DrDavid posted instructions on how to Use Google Checkout to create PACKAGES and offer COUPON CODES! in this thread - http://www.dgrin.com/showthread.php?t=83981, sounds like that is a form of self-fulfillment.
--- Denise
Musings & ramblings at https://denisegoldberg.blogspot.com
Thanks for your input!
I guess bitting the bullet time is closing in.
I am not sure of the Goggle thing. I absolutely don't want to even think about being a computer / web geek.
That said how does Google notify you a purchase was made? How do they pay you? Please don't say with paypal.
How does Smugmug feel about this? I know it's small potatoes, but I would be using, and modifying, their gallery software, etc. but no "almost worthless US dollars" would be going their way for this purchase option.
Ok, while we are here, if I were to say create jpg files for Smugmug printing, and I didn't store this jpg file version on my hard drive, and wanted to get a copy back, can I download a copy of this jpg file I have stored at my Smugmug account?
Sam
I haven't done anything with Google Checkout myself - but there is no paypal. In fact, I believe they are competitors. Here's a link to The Google Checkout seller's information page - https://checkout.google.com/sell/?gsessionid=XgYayKOOY6c.
Yes, you can download copies of your photos from your smugmug galleries back to your computer. You can pull them down individually, or there are some tools available that will pull full galleries: Greg Wellman's AlbumFetcher, at http://www.dgrin.com/showthread.php?t=47160, Nikolai's Star*Explorer, at http://www.dgrin.com/showthread.php?t=4126. Those are both Windows tools, someone else will have to point you at some Mac tools if you need that.
You might surprise yourself and discover that you like having an online presence...
--- Denise
Musings & ramblings at https://denisegoldberg.blogspot.com
Denise,
I am sure you are right.....................perhaps it's a new fangled phobia, or fear of the unknown, or the tin foil hat I wear while working on the computer to protect against viruses.
Who knows? Yes, yes the shadow does, but I haven't seen him in awhile. He used to hide under my bed, when I was a kid, and jump out and scare me. No..wait that wasn't the shadow, that was the da%^ dog.
OK, y'all got me real close. I will give the state franchise tax people in the "peoples republic of California" a call on Monday to see about getting ball rolling.
See that's the problem, first the tax forms, then the business license, then the insurance, then the income tax / business forms, then all the accounting.
I may have to rethink............................
Sam
In short, the answer is YES :-) - if you have a Pro level subscription. What's currently not possible (AFAIK) is to provide different prices for the same gallery, but you can always make another copy of it and price it totally differently. Other than that you have the following proicing options:
1) product/image is not for sale at all
2) default (portfolio) price, the one you set for EVERY image if it doesn't have a special price. Note, your default can be "not for sale"
3) gallery price - overrides the default if specified
4) image price - ovvrides both gallery and protfolio price if specified
5) totally custom (via paypal, or google checkout or whatever), when customer pays you directly and you place an order for them at your cost and simply specify correct shipping address (theirs or yours if you want to check the merchadise first)
HTH
Nikolai,
But I can print and ship from home, yes??
Sam
I'm also not revealing a big secret that SM stays 100% behind the printwork, so if ANYHTING goes wrong they will reprint/resend for free or refund the whole thing. It's very hard to beat that on your own, IMHO...
www.adamdaley.com
www.fdphotos.net
Adam,
After my first experience with Walgreen's, I can assure you Walgreen's if completely off my recommended print list.
Sam
Nikolai,
Everyday seems to bring me closer to having an online presence. An online presence to me is "SMUGMUG"!
I have the up most confidence in their support, and I am very confident that the print quality would be good, but they can't match my printing.
I am sure Marc, could exceed my printing, but by how much?
As for the garrantee..........yes I stand 100% behind anything I print.
While I still have a ton to learn about printing:
Short story: (minor brag)
Last month,I went to Rayko in San Francisco and had my portfolio, such as it is reviewed by the gallery director.
She explained, (in a nice, and honest way), she didn't like digital capture/ prints or color prints. She is old school film, and dark room, thank you very much.
In her evaluation she said she thought I had an excelent eye for color, good printing skills, and thought that specifically one B&W print which will be in a show there in June looked as close to a wet room print as she had seen.
Sam
Sam,
I hear you. I guess what I was talking about is more economical/less exclusive/more mass scale print jobs. If we're talking about 1 poster size print per month I'm sure you don't need anybody's help. However, if it's a bit more than that with the smaller prints and the customer is NOT an old school art gallery editor - I'm sure SM will do just fine and it will save you gobs of time to work on your Big Prints...
Nikolai,
As far as event photos, I couldn't agree more! I don't want to print these, and as I am looking at more event type photography, I have more and more interest in an online presence.
As to my other prints, large or small, I offer them personally printed, (on a variety of archival papers not possible through Smugmug), matted with backing, and signed.
I likes it this way.:D
Note: I really appreciate the time and effort of everyone who responded!!!! Thanks!!!
Sam
May I make a suggestion? Rather than deliver a CD, create a one-year Smugmug gallery for the client. Use a SM gift subscription, which will cost you $34.95 and you'll get $10 back in referral credits.
https://www.smugmug.com/price/gift-subscription-details.mg
Pre-populate the gallery with the full-size original files. Organize it, make it pretty, and password-protect it. Make sure that "Allow prints" and "Allow originals" are turned on.
Then hand it over to the clients. Explain to them that you have given them the original files, plus a one-year online gallery for their family and friends. They can download all the files, order a backup CD from SM, and/or order SM's excellent prints at near-Walmart pricing. They don't have to spend their time schlepping the CD around to their friends who want to make prints. And they can renew the gallery at the end of their year if they like, or just make sure they've downloaded all their files by that time.
You will have still delivered the original files as promised, for them to use as they choose. But this would make it easier and more convenient for them to use a known-good printing service. :ivar
ann
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Yeah.. just don't let it be one year. I fluctuate between 1 and 3 months, depending on various things.
Kinda makes them think fast...