Stolen Images

Rockin-Photos

The mother of a MINOR model contacted me today advising me that the photos I took of her daughter were showing up on a "foot fetish" web site.

http://themousepad.yuku.com/topic/19695?page=1

The actual images are being hosted through a photo hosting site:
http://img42.imagevenue.com/

My original (800x600) photos or hosted on SmugMug:
http://rockin-photos.com/gallery/4192121_kgNPF#244959854_jB4qt

I've sent an email to the site admin for both themousepad and imagevenue requesting them to remove the images from their sites, and requesting the contact info for the person who posted the "copies".

I have a couple of questions.

1) The images are supposed to be "protected" from downloading. When I right click while not logged in, I get the pop up copyright info. Is it possible that they were still taken from my SmugMug gallery? Wouldn't the watermark still show up on them if someone snagged them from here?

2) Is there anything else I can do or need to do in this mater?

Thanks,

Jerry

Gregg Hall

Rockin-Photos wrote:

The mother of a MINOR model contacted me today advising me that the photos I took of her daughter were showing up on a "foot fetish" web site.

http://themousepad.yuku.com/topic/19695?page=1

The actual images are being hosted through a photo hosting site:
http://img42.imagevenue.com/

My original (800x600) photos or hosted on SmugMug:
http://rockin-photos.com/gallery/4192121_kgNPF#244959854_jB4qt

I've sent an email to the site admin for both themousepad and imagevenue requesting them to remove the images from their sites, and requesting the contact info for the person who posted the "copies".

I have a couple of questions.

1) The images are supposed to be "protected" from downloading. When I right click while not logged in, I get the pop up copyright info. Is it possible that they were still taken from my SmugMug gallery? Wouldn't the watermark still show up on them if someone snagged them from here?

2) Is there anything else I can do or need to do in this mater?

Thanks,

Jerry

I just looked at your gallery and see no watermarks, the right click protection is there, but honestly all that does is slow people down, once you open the pic up it is in your cache if you want it.

Andy

It's true - Right Click is only a mild deterrent.... remember, that if it's being viewed by someone, it is in their computer.

I'm sorry that foot fetish people got your photo

Please let us know if you have any questions, okay?

Rockin-Photos

Yes, I thought I had watermarks set on all my photos, but apparently not. I don't know if I should change anything on there until I know the sites in question have removed my images from their systems.

And the mother of the minor wants me to remove the photos from my site. I think for now, I'll just lock it with a password.

Reeflections

Rockin-Photos wrote:

Yes, I thought I had watermarks set on all my photos, but apparently not. I don't know if I should change anything on there until I know the sites in question have removed my images from their systems.

And the mother of the minor wants me to remove the photos from my site. I think for now, I'll just lock it with a password.

Even watermarks can usually be cloned away to some degree. If it were me, I would remove them completely since that's what the mother has said to do. The Mother is the Boss here!!! Don't take any chances.

DrDavid

Reeflections wrote:

Even watermarks can usually be cloned away to some degree. If it were me, I would remove them completely since that's what the mother has said to do. The Mother is the Boss here!!! Don't take any chances.

How exactly does removing the images from your site help to prevent the photos from appearing in 1) Google image cache, 2) the foot fetish website, 3) archive.org, 4) every other proxy/caching/etc website on the net, etc? Isn't that a tad, uh, reactionary? Closing the barn door AFTER the fact isn't effective either.

I'm a father of two girls--the reality is that if someone wants my daughters images badly enough, they'll get them and do whatever the hell they want with them. I may not like it, but, until there's something illegal being done, I can't prevent it.

Sorry your photos ended up there; but, that's kinda the nature of the web... Watermarking might have helped here; don't you visually check your photos after uploading?

David

BigAl

DrDavid wrote:

How exactly does removing the images from your site help to prevent the photos from appearing in 1) Google image cache,

Just for the record, Google images does not catalogue Smugmug. There was a discussion around this about this time last year.

Andy

BigAl wrote:

Just for the record, Google images does not catalogue Smugmug. There was a discussion around this about this time last year.

Don't underestimate the power of teh g00gle.

DrDavid

Andy wrote:

Don't underestimate the power of teh g00gle.

What happens in <S>Vegas</S> the web, stays in <s>Vegas</s> the web.

Mr. 2H2O

Watermarks do not appear on local cache versions of pics from Smugmug galleries. I recommend PW protection - and if you want extra protection, go unlisted too.

You can pull out a couple of her pics to put into a public gallery just to show your work. If someone wants her portfolio, they can ask and get the PW from you.

- Mike

jfriend

Mr. 2H2O wrote:

Watermarks do not appear on local cache versions of pics from Smugmug galleries.

This is not true. Watermarks appear on all publicly available versions of your images except thumbnails and will be on browser cache version of pics just like all other copies of your pics via a browser. They are applied when the images are generated at Smugmug so there is no such thing as a version of your image without the watermark except your original (which is kept safely for printing) and your thumbnails (which are deemed too small for watermarking).

Passwords do also provide a great level of protection, but when they are not appropriate, watermarks can work quite well too for some types of protection.

DrDavid

Mr. 2H2O wrote:

Watermarks do not appear on local cache versions of pics from Smugmug galleries.

Huh???

*ALL* photos that are watermarked by Smugmug are physically altered to include the watermark as part of the image. The only version which isn't changed is the original (for printing). You can even watermark the thumbnail if you want!

Unless you clone the watermark out of the photo, it's there for good.

David

Reeflections

DrDavid wrote:

How exactly does removing the images from your site help to prevent the photos from appearing in 1) Google image cache, 2) the foot fetish website, 3) archive.org, 4) every other proxy/caching/etc website on the net, etc? Isn't that a tad, uh, reactionary? Closing the barn door AFTER the fact isn't effective either.


David

I agree it's too late for this instance, but my point was that if Mom says take 'em down, take 'em down.

Mr. 2H2O

jfriend wrote:

This is not true. Watermarks appear on all publicly available versions of your images except thumbnails and will be on browser cache version of pics just like all other copies of your pics via a browser. They are applied when the images are generated at Smugmug so there is no such thing as a version of your image without the watermark except your original (which is kept safely for printing) and your thumbnails (which are deemed too small for watermarking).

My bad - I forgot that the tests I did were for Original size photos only. If a person makes the Original availble, no watermarks. Every resize does contain them.

- Mike

DrDavid

Reeflections wrote:

I agree it's too late for this instance, but my point was that if Mom says take 'em down, take 'em down.

The point of what I said was that it is physically impossible for him to remove all photos at this point. Even if he deletes the ONE photo from his site, that doesn't remove it from the dozens of other places that it exists.

I meant what I said... What happens on the net stays on the net...

Rockin-Photos

All good advice/info, and I plan on being more proactive in safeguarding my photos now, so something good has come of it. Is there some way you can attach and search the net for exif info in images? I'm still kind of curious as to how a pro photographer in PA "stumbled across" the images on that web site, and knew to contact the model. I didn't see anything on the images or that web site that indicated who the photos were of.
BTW, I checked the sites this morning, and those pages were "not found", so hopefully they won't show up there again at least.

Rockin-Photos

OK, now I'm a bit confused. (Like I wasn't before)
I just went through all my public portrait galleries, and only one was showing my (or any) watermark. But when I went into gallery options, most of them said watermarks were turned on (though some said SmugMug instead of mine). I reset them all to show my watermark, and made sure I checked the box to mark existing images. I'm not sure how long it takes for the watermarks to show up, but when I got done with the last gallery, I went back to view the first gallery, and they weren't showing up yet.

DrDavid

Rockin-Photos wrote:

OK, now I'm a bit confused. (Like I wasn't before)
I just went through all my public portrait galleries, and only one was showing my (or any) watermark. But when I went into gallery options, most of them said watermarks were turned on (though some said SmugMug instead of mine). I reset them all to show my watermark, and made sure I checked the box to mark existing images. I'm not sure how long it takes for the watermarks to show up, but when I got done with the last gallery, I went back to view the first gallery, and they weren't showing up yet.

Select "Watermarking" from the drop down menu below the photo. Then, "Select all" and apply whatever watermark you want. There is a bit of a two-step process there (although, with some added ease of use lately).

David

Rockin-Photos

Under Photo Tools, I see "Make into Watermark". Is that what you mean? I thought that was to use that image AS a watermark.
I don't see anything about watermark other than that on the Photo Tools or the Gallery Tools.

bham

To have the photos watermarked either set the watermarking option on a gallery BEFORE any images are uploaded to that gallery, or you have to select the watermark option in the photo tools and select the photos and the watermark. Just having a gallery with photo and then changing the gallery setting to watermark, doesn't change the photos that are already there. It will only affect photos uploaded to that gallery after the change occurs.

DrDavid

Rockin-Photos wrote:

Under Photo Tools, I see "Make into Watermark". Is that what you mean? I thought that was to use that image AS a watermark.
I don't see anything about watermark other than that on the Photo Tools or the Gallery Tools.

Are you sure the image you are trying to watermark have a long side >800px?

DrDavid

bham wrote:

To have the photos watermarked either set the watermarking option on a gallery BEFORE any images are uploaded to that gallery, or you have to select the watermark option in the photo tools and select the photos and the watermark. Just having a gallery with photo and then changing the gallery setting to watermark, doesn't change the photos that are already there. It will only affect photos uploaded to that gallery after the change occurs.

This changed recently... From the release notes:

Watermarks: We’ve updated Watermarks to work similarly to the new Thumbnails tool. If you change your watermark settings in the Customize Gallery section, you’ll see a new check box: ‘Apply to existing photos in gallery.’ Checking this will add or remove a watermark from all photos in the gallery when you save the settings. Unchecked, the change will be applied to all photos uploaded from then on. The checkbox will only appear if you make a change to your current saved settings.

David

Rockin-Photos

The only "watermark" option under the "photo tools" is "Make into Watermark". Am I missing something here?

Rockin-Photos

DrDavid wrote:

Are you sure the image you are trying to watermark have a long side >800px?

600x800 is what I usually upload for proofs. I can't be positive, but they look the right size. If it's only 799 on the longest side, does that stop it from showing the watermark? I thought all sizes other than the thumbnail showed the wm.

DrDavid

Rockin-Photos wrote:

600x800 is what I usually upload for proofs. I can't be positive, but they look the right size. If it's only 799 on the longest side, does that stop it from showing the watermark? I thought all sizes other than the thumbnail showed the wm.

It must be 801px on the longest side. If it's 800 or less, it won't be watermarked.

David

Rockin-Photos

That must be the problem then. I went to one of the galleries that have full size photos, and the "watermark" option shows up on the "Photo Tools" pull down.

So to WM anything I want online, I have to upload files larger than 800px on the longest side.

The 600x800 size is what was hijacked.

Reeflections

DrDavid wrote:

The point of what I said was that it is physically impossible for him to remove all photos at this point. Even if he deletes the ONE photo from his site, that doesn't remove it from the dozens of other places that it exists.

I meant what I said... What happens on the net stays on the net...

I'm sorry, I guess you still didn't understand me. I understood your point about the barn door and agree that it is too late to fix the mistake completely. I KNOW that this image is out online and can never be completely removed. I meant what I said as well. If Mom says take it off your site, you take it off your site. Period. Because that's where Mom is going to look to see if you still have it on your site. Mom may, or may not, understand that you are unable to remove it from the rest of the Internet, but she darn well knows you can remove it from your own site. When the mother of a minor asks you to take that minor's image off of your site you better well do it no matter where else it might show up. That's about as clear as I can be.

Alexander

Pardon me for interrupting the Watermarking-debate, but...

Rockin-Photos wrote:

...showing up on a "foot fetish" web site.

http://themousepad.yuku.com/topic/19695?page=1

The actual images are being hosted through a photo hosting site:
http://img42.imagevenue.com/

Look into the HTML source of that site, and you will notice that all pics are (where, now that you've taken them down) linked from your imagevenue-site!

Basically, you've published the "actual images" on imagevenue, and they took the pics from there. SmugMug does not seem involved.

DrDavid

I still have no idea how you could possibly have noticed the photos on that site.....

David