Baseball: How can i get under helmets?
darkdragon
Registered Users Posts: 1,051 Major grins
First time shooting baseball since 1995, it is hard to remember but I think I was shooting only night games back then - and it was all B/W film no posting on the internet in full color.
Anyhow, I took these shots last sunday and was very unimpressed with what I came back with. Almost 8GB of images and I wouldn't call any of them "magazine worthy" as most were under or overexposed and almost no faces were visible. They all also seemed very soft but I'm guesing that was a combo of a crappy UV+Polarizer filter. This was in the heat of the day 12PM-330PM in Las Vegas, bright and sunny and warm.
My question to you experts is how do I get under those helmets for some good faces?
If I set the exposure to get decent shadows (faces) it always totally blew out the stark white uniforms. I tried boosting the ISO but all I got was graining images on those, IMHO totally useless. Actually the grain was really bad compared to grain I see from other 40D owners (but then I'm not using Noise Ninja or anything, just PS CS3).
I've included a few examples from the shoot to illustrate what I mean. These are not full rez, but I think they get my point accross.
1. EXIF
2. EXIF
3. EXIF
Anyhow, I took these shots last sunday and was very unimpressed with what I came back with. Almost 8GB of images and I wouldn't call any of them "magazine worthy" as most were under or overexposed and almost no faces were visible. They all also seemed very soft but I'm guesing that was a combo of a crappy UV+Polarizer filter. This was in the heat of the day 12PM-330PM in Las Vegas, bright and sunny and warm.
My question to you experts is how do I get under those helmets for some good faces?
If I set the exposure to get decent shadows (faces) it always totally blew out the stark white uniforms. I tried boosting the ISO but all I got was graining images on those, IMHO totally useless. Actually the grain was really bad compared to grain I see from other 40D owners (but then I'm not using Noise Ninja or anything, just PS CS3).
I've included a few examples from the shoot to illustrate what I mean. These are not full rez, but I think they get my point accross.
1. EXIF
2. EXIF
3. EXIF
~ Lisa
0
Comments
were you in shutter priority? f8, why not shoot wide open?
I would think you are underexposed, one stop.
Try shooting at the widest aperture you have, if you need more shutter speed, bump ISO. shoot in center weight meter to control the light.
If you are in manual stiill shoot wide open and keep your eye on the meter. try and get a consistent shutter speed, use the ISO to be your friend.
hope this helps.
#2, you could have used a spot meter on his face, would have given better exposure.
I shoot a lot of soccer and softball. Midday sports is a challenge to get the exposure right because there's often more dynamic range in the scene than the camera can record without some post processing.
What I do is expose for the highlights (I hate blown skin color). This often leaves the shadows underexposed. I then use the Fill Light slider in Lightroom to make the shadow detail more visible. It works pretty great. In a really tough shot, I'll also use the highlight recovery slider to help make the highlights less harsh. You get more flexibility with a RAW shot than a JPEG, but the technique still works for JPEGs too.
Other things you can do are turn down the contrast either in camera (if you shoot JPEG) or in post processing (if you shoot RAW). Contrast raises highlights and darkens shadows which is the opposite of what you want. Turning down the contrast raises the brightness of shadows and lowers highlights. Your shot might lose a little mid-tone punch, but you get your shadows and highlights back too.
I just recently shot a mid-day track meet and actually ended up turning down the contrast adjustment in Lightroom on the entire shoot because it gave me a better starting point for each image.
There's no reason to mess with the ISO at all unless you need a faster shutter speed (which is probably not a problem in this bright light). Raising the ISO actually reduces the dynamic range the sensor can record which hurts even more.
Here's one of yours with a shadow adjustment in CS3 (I didn't bother to import it into Lightroom). I probably went overboard here, but wanted to show you that the info is all there in the photo - you just have to pull it out with post processing.
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Thanks for the tips. When I was out there I tried pretty much everything, when I was shooing wide open @ F4 everything kept comming up totally overexposed no matter what I did with shutter speed.
I'll be going out again this month and I will try again at F4. I have the 50mm 1.4, would that be tooo much you think? Would an ND filter with the 1.4 help? I don't know, but I'm willing to try everything and anything.
I definately need to practice with the different metering types, I don't recall what my camera is set on right now, but I will re-read that part of my manual and play with it a bit.
Thanks again for the tips.
Thank you for the info. I never thought about lowering the contrast to help remove some of the shadows. That is a great idea, the changes you made on just my JPG are astounding to me. I do shoot in RAW and will revisit my baseball shots in lightroom and see if i can bring more out of the shadows.
Another great tip. Thanks!
Thank you for the tips. I always try hard to get everything exposed right and it seems sometimes I'm going to have to choose highlights or shadows as I won't be able to get both all the time (like high noon with no clouds and white uniforms).
I did try some shots with higher ISO to try and clear out the shadows but man they were total grainy crappolla. Won't be doing that again for sure, unless it is low light and I NEED it to get anything viewable.
In my opinion, you can't use spot metering in action sports unless you pre-meter with the spot meter and then shoot in manual mode. There's just no way to compose a split section action shot with the spot meter properly aimed at a medium skin tone which you follow and capture the action. I would wager that no successful sports shooter uses live facial spot metering for an action shot - there's just way too much of a chance the spot will be aimed at the wrong target and your metering will be way off.
I use either matrix metering or center weighted metering. If the overall scene is a good mid-tone brightness (a sunlit green soccer field works well for this), then matrix metering can work pretty well. I take a few test shots and look at the histogram and decide if I need a little -0.3 or -0.7EV to protect highlights or not.
If, on the other hand, your are shooting on a very bright infield of a baseball or softball field, then matrix metering is probably going to underexpose (because the infield is soo bright). In that case, I'll use center weighted metering so most of my metering is off the athlete. Now, you've got to look at what the athlete is wearing.
If they are wearing a very dark uniform, then the center weighted metering off the dark uniform is probably going to overexpose them (it's going to try to make the dark uniform come out to a mid-tone).
If they are wearing a white uniform, the center weighted metering will probably underexpose them (it will try to make the white uniform come out to a mid-tone). In case of these cases, I take a few test shots, look at the camera preview and the camera histogram and make an EV adjustment (+EV for a white uniform, -EV for a black uniform). I then take a few more test shots, verify that I'm not blowing any highlight detail that's important and go with that. If you start shooting the other team (different uniforms) or the lighting changes, re-evaluate.
This may sound like a lot of work, but it can become second nature pretty easily. Because you are shooting RAW, you don't have to be perfect either. The closer you are, the better, but RAW does give you more adjustment lattitude in post processing as long as you aren't too far off and haven't blown highlights too much.
By the way, note I haven't said anything about aperture. Your shutter speed, aperture and ISO determine the ultimate exposure, but I assume you are letting the camera adjust the exposure according to your meter settings (shutter priority, aperture priority or one of the auto or program modes). f/4 won't solve the problem you are asking about any better than f/8 so there is no need to try your 50mm f/1.4 lens at f/1.4. I pick the aperture for completely different reasons. I use f/8 when I want more depth of field. I use f/4 or f/2.8 when I either want less depth of field to blur the background or when I need a faster shutter speed (f/4 lets in more light so it lets you use a faster shutter speed to still get the same exposure). You should ONLY raise the ISO when you have to in order to get a fast enough shutter speed. That should not be necessary in full sunlight shots like these.
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If you were in Aperture Priority, the camera will determine the correct shutter, in the middle of the day. Your camera would have easily given you 1/2000 or higher, with your other settings. If you want to stop some of the highlights from blowing, put the ISO at it's lowest number, use f4 and let the shutter float. Your 50 1.4 is probably not a good baseball lens. you need something longer. I think you have a 70-200 f4, you should use that.
Use center weighted meter it will help to hold down the highlights slightly. If you still find the highlights are overexposing, dial in some -ev, just a little.
remember, to try and be on the side of the field, where the sun is to your side or behind you, then you will not have as many shadow problems. Sometimes when shooting outside in bright sun, you must make compromises. If you cannot get the sun behind you, then dial in some +ev to help raise the shadow detail.
It takes time and practice to get it right, keep trying.
here is you photo with shadows corrected
before
After
Get rid of the ND and Polarizer. I don't see how either one will help you out there.
The 'Contrast' setting in my camera is set to the lowest setting. It allows me to retain as much shadow detail as possible. I do some minor editing in Photoshop to put a bit of life back into the pictures. Of course, while you're struggling to can choose to shoot RAW. That'll give you some additional room to work during PP.
Stick with it. Don't let the white uniforms throw off your meter!
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I did do M/Av/Tv modes throughout the day trying to see what worked better for me. I think Manual worked best for me most times, but I'll give it a shot with Av some more and see how that goes.
Didn't even bring my 50mm with me last time, I used my 70-200 most of the time. Added a 1.4x TC with it for part of the game (borrowed from a guy) and was very happy with that so I'm ordering one. Wil probably be ordering a longer lens soon too, once people stop getting laid off at my office ;-)
I will practice that and use it next time.
Lucky for me, the sun is always behind me at this field because it is behind home plate..except at noon when it is directly above everything.
Definately, if it was easy then everyone would do it and sports shooters would have no money. I'm going to keep working on my skills in this area, so I'm sure you guys will seem around the forum more asking N00B questions.
Thank you everyone for all the help so far. I'm excited to go out and try the tips (and try the Lightroom adjustments today!)