What do you do?

cdonovan

I sold a personal printing license on a photo to a client to find that they manipulated the image and used it to advertise.

I just found one of my photos from a client that she had someone edit the halter off the horse and add white (as it was used to advertise for a local paint club)

so many emotions right now but betrayed, angry, sad, confused is a good start

It just exhausts me to no end to deal with people/groups like this.

I'm going to start with sending a bill, but don't know if that should go to the club or the person that the photo and license was sold to, she's on the BOD and is the treasurer....should I send a copy to the president and her as well....??? I

Angelo

send a bill for usage to the organization and send a seperate letter of intent to the first party, stating you will be persuing legal remedy for infringement of copyright and terms of use.

Tango

the problem here is these clubs can black ball you within the region, even though you are in the right.....the other clubs will only get one side of the argument...

yes you can get them to pay for what they have done...but is that going to hinder future clients? my guess is yes...

i would write them informing them of the terms of use, keep it friendly , allow them to keep things as they are and offer a discounted price for that use in commercial...
also, school them on the copyright and alteration issue and show you can forgive but so they know that type of use wont be allowed again...all in a nice way...

or

take it to them hard and hope for the best.....

cdonovan

What burns me the most is the club...the club and this particular member is very familiar with the terms of usage, I found that she created a set of business cards for her trainer with my pictures without my consent. It was after this that we chatted and I told her that she had no right to do that, as all she was granted were personal printing priviledges, and explained to her what that meant.

They (the club) contacted me about a month ago with a request for 20 8x10 pictures that they would be able to use for display purposes in a trade show that was held just this past weekend. They expected me to do it gratis, when I came back at them with a price, they withdrew the request and noted that the budget wouldn't allow for that.

I was their club photographer for their shows last summer and also looked after their website as a club donation.(time & skills) when the last show was approaching I learned that another photographer had been given the go ahead and was also granted the "official Photographer" status. So here I stood after doing well over a years work for them on their website, designing banners and ads etc for them and they went and pulled this on me. When I demanded that they follow the contract of what had been agreed upon the club president woudn't go on record to confirm what she knew as a friend and a business partner had been agreed to. After this happened, I made sure that each client knew exacty what rights they had with any photos that they purchased. Each of them have a well written license that shows what they are allowed to do and what they are not allowed to do. The someone who claimed to be a friend of mine also and was upset with what the club had done to me at the last min is the lady who is responsible for the editing of this photo. They like the work I do but are not willing to pay for it...they try to flatter me with kind remarks and butt kissing, but I've seen through it for a long time now and am really tired of it. I feel like sending them a bill for usage times X100 but I won't. I need a few days to calm down and go about this a logical and well documented way. I am typically a very quiet and kind person, and those who don't know me well may think that I'm a pushover, that something like this would just be allowed, because I'm so nice and I feel that it's for this reason alone that these things keep happening to me. I need to do something, but just unsure of what route to take. I don't want to be known as the b$%#^ but I don't want to be taken by any group or association that I am involved with.

given a better feel of the background with the club, does that change the view of how I should proceed?

ChatKat

Yes,
Dear Board of Directors:

Enclosed is my bill for the use of the image(s) that I created for the club. I have found that the terms of my agreement and copyright have been violated. When we did the agreement for print, I fully discussed use of the image with Miss Board of Director.

The Terms of Use for using my image were strictly allowing you to create a print. You did not have permission to alter my photograph or use it for (name how they used it) for promotion. The type of use would have required a commercial use agreement and the fee for that is $ZXXXXX.

I fully expect payment from you withing five business days or it will be necessary for me to take action and seek additional damages.

Sincerely,
C. Donovan,
Harmed Photographer

Tango

ya that changes things in my mind...
im not sure what to say.... except if they ever called me for services after all that i would only make commercial services and rates available to them (maybe bump it up 30% too) no personal print rights....

as for recovering lost income....i dont know...eval what it would do for your future sales to other clubs like that...
i guess it all depends how much its all worth they stoled....


sometimes people just suck. sorry for your situation

claudermilk

Sheesh. Budget doesn't allow? These are horse people, horses are expensive, so lots of money floating around is implied--these certainly aren't paupers. Top that of with knowingly infriging. I'd definitely send them a hefty bill. Then I'd think long and hard about working with them at all in the future; if I did after that kind of history, the prices would be steep and a signed contract for ANY product would be required.

cdonovan

Thank you Very much for your input. I know how delicate these things can be, I don't want to be known to the other clubs that I'm a pushover, but I certainly don't want to be the polar opposit. You can be having a good day and then whamo, something like this comes along and just knocks the wind right out of you.
I've decided to bill them, I'm going to send them a bill for regular commercial usage,(as if they had requested the work/photo) which will stand and if not paid within 30 days, they will be responsible to pay my nastyness bill. I feel this way it will allow them the opportunity to make things right, and they can't say that I blindsided them. This will make my point clear, that I absolutely will not tolerate this type of behavior and that will also show them that I won't entertain it in the future either and most importantly that I'm watching them.

My "nastyness bill" will be outlined in the first bill that if they fail to pay for the usage, they will be billed for usage x5 and also for alterations to the photo.

I've never delt with charging anyone for altering a photo of mine, but the way I believe I will handle it is what figure out how much time that job would take me to do and then bill them for that. What they did, (which was explained in detail to a friend of mine with much pride,) was erased the background and then made a copy and flipped it, so the same photo appears 2x on the banner but is altered to look different.

for the alterations to the photo, can someone advise if that is a fair way to charge someone for that type of infrigement?? Thankfully this is new to me, and I want to be sure that I'm fair and justified in my billing!

Snowgirl

Hi C. It never ceases to amaze me how people will abuse the products of creativity and the legal rights of the creators.

Like you I spend a lot of time 'educating' my clients about what they can, and can't, do with images.

I also belong to a freelance writers' association. Someone in that group inquired about having to pay for a photo that had been takenof themselves by a photographer. They wanted to use the image on their own website for promotional purposes. I just lost it. This same group would crap sharp-edged bricks if anyone reproduced an article they'd written without paying for it. HONESTLY!

You go girl and if asked, I'll support what you say (we know the group, right?)

:ivar

cdonovan

Thank you Snowgirl, you know the group alright, and I'm glad to know that I can count on you to be in my corner.

I've done a lot of reading this week on people and sense of entitlement, I just can't get over how people will try to justify and make things right in their mind

Kevin G

cdonovan wrote:

I sold a personal printing license on a photo to a client to find that they manipulated the image and used it to advertise.

I just found one of my photos from a client that she had someone edit the halter off the horse and add white (as it was used to advertise for a local paint club)

so many emotions right now but betrayed, angry, sad, confused is a good start

It just exhausts me to no end to deal with people/groups like this.

I'm going to start with sending a bill, but don't know if that should go to the club or the person that the photo and license was sold to, she's on the BOD and is the treasurer....should I send a copy to the president and her as well....??? I

No emotions needed, simply send them a cease and desist letter along with a bill and tell them to pick one.

Andy

Snowgirl wrote:

This same group would crap sharp-edged bricks if anyone reproduced an article they'd written without paying for it

Well put!

Andy

claudermilk wrote:

Sheesh. Budget doesn't allow? These are horse people, horses are expensive, so lots of money floating around is implied--these certainly aren't paupers.

Exactly - never ceases to amaze me how someone that spends gazillions on the care, feeding, upkeep of an animal like these horses, would screw a fellow human being.

Go get 'em Christine. Neigh.

RogersDA

Kevin G wrote:

No emotions needed, simply send them a cease and desist letter along with a bill and tell them to pick one.

...and make sure you have registered your images at the Copyright Office of the Library of Congress.

Snowgirl

cdonovan wrote:

Thank you Snowgirl, you know the group alright, and I'm glad to know that I can count on you to be in my corner.

I've done a lot of reading this week on people and sense of entitlement, I just can't get over how people will try to justify and make things right in their mind

Copyright in Canada is a little different than in the USA - but you definitely OWN YOUR IMAGES.

Because I post (low res) images for the Show Centre I have to watch really closely to see where my shots end up. ONE ended up as the cover pic. for NBEA's membership directory. I did get credit (gee thanks) but no $ and no one ASKED if I'd donate the picture (which, as a member, I probably would have). Grr. Of course, since they printed the low res version, it looks like hell which does nothing for my rep. as a photographer. Sigh.

RogersDA

Snowgirl wrote:

Copyright in Canada is a little different than in the USA

I did not realize that the OP (and you ) were Canadians. Sorry 'bout that.

Snowgirl

RogersDA wrote:

I did not realize that the OP (and you ) were Canadians. Sorry 'bout that.

Yep - we're both Canuks! Actually, in Canada there is an organization called Access Copyright that all creative types should belong to. You register and then your register your works - same idea as in the USA - to help with protection from theft.:ivar

Andy

Snowgirl wrote:

in Canada there is an organization called Access Copyright

There is also peameal bacon.... I've been a vegan now 1.5 years but ooh baby that stuff is good

Snowgirl

Andy wrote:

There is also peameal bacon.... I've been a vegan now 1.5 years but ooh baby that stuff is good

Don't forget "real" maple syrup (you only get the good stuff produced in cold climates):ivar