Washed out colors in Smugmug vs. Photoshop??

photowinz

My smugmug photos are washed out as compared to the same image in photoshop and preview (Mac).

Here are the details

1- Image is converted to sRGB in PS and uploaded to SmugMug.
2- Image is opened in 3 places - Photoshop, preview, Firefox (Mac)
3- Photoshop and Preview colors match. Smugmug (Firefox) is washed out.
4- I've tried viewing both the "original" as well as other sizes. They all look the same

**Rule out the Safari ICC profile issues. I'm viewing in Firefox

SAMPLE: - this is a screenshot re-uploaded back into smugmug with all three views open. This particluar Kayaking picture shows the greens are off in the SmugMug (firefox) version on the far right. The preview and photoshop views are center and left respectively and match correctly. Why is Smugmug OR Firefox rendering the greens differently in this case??? (I've read all the related threads on this topic and still can't figure this one out)

devbobo

Triple check that the image is exported as sRGB.

SmugMug converts AdobeRGB or ProPhoto images to sRGB on upload (including originals), that would be explain why is original is the same as the other image sizes.

claudermilk

Sounds very much like the common aRGB->sRGB problem. Do like devbobo says--make absolutely certain you're uploading sRGB files.

Baldy

photowinz wrote:

My smugmug photos are washed out as compared to the same image in photoshop and preview (Mac).

Here are the details

1- Image is converted to sRGB in PS and uploaded to SmugMug.
2- Image is opened in 3 places - Photoshop, preview, Firefox (Mac)
3- Photoshop and Preview colors match. Smugmug (Firefox) is washed out.
4- I've tried viewing both the "original" as well as other sizes. They all look the same

**Rule out the Safari ICC profile issues. I'm viewing in Firefox

SAMPLE: - this is a screenshot re-uploaded back into smugmug with all three views open. This particluar Kayaking picture shows the greens are off in the SmugMug (firefox) version on the far right. The preview and photoshop views are center and left respectively and match correctly. Why is Smugmug OR Firefox rendering the greens differently in this case??? (I've read all the related threads on this topic and still can't figure this one out)

Hey kevin,

It looks like you're using FF 2, which doesn't have support for ICC profiles. One thing to do is open your file from your hard disk using FF and see that it matches what is being displayed on the Web. FF3 does have profile support, but I understand it's now turned off by default because of the 15% performance penalty. PS and Preview are using profiles.

Your site and photos are gorgeous. Great job customizing.

photowinz

Baldy wrote:

Hey kevin,

It looks like you're using FF 2, which doesn't have support for ICC profiles. One thing to do is open your file from your hard disk using FF and see that it matches what is being displayed on the Web. FF3 does have profile support, but I understand it's now turned off by default because of the 15% performance penalty. PS and Preview are using profiles.

Your site and photos are gorgeous. Great job customizing.

I triple checked sRGB and even reconverted and uploaded. Same issue. I also opened the file from FF 2 as you suggested and it does match what the web is showing (interesting). I was under the impression that FF will render colors the same as you would see in PS or other previews (sRGB of course). At the end of the day, I need to know what color clients and customers are seeing. (Aside from monitor calibration issues). Any other ideas or solutions on here???

Here is a 4 shot comparison -- from left to right ---- Photoshop, FF 2 (Mac), FF (PC), IE 7 (PC). (using parallels for Windows browsers). Photoshop is the only correct color.



Just to confirm the sRGB conversion...





Thx for checking out the site and work Baldy!

Andy

Hi, your images aren't showing - can you please enable external links in your gallery? Thanks!

photowinz

Andy wrote:

Hi, your images aren't showing - can you please enable external links in your gallery? Thanks!

Done

afarber

I'm having the same problem - and only recently (or at least I only noticed recently). I can try to get screen grabs like his in a few days, but suffice it to say that it was very obvious to me when I uploaded.

Thanks!
Adam

jfriend

photowinz wrote:

I triple checked sRGB and even reconverted and uploaded. Same issue. I also opened the file from FF 2 as you suggested and it does match what the web is showing (interesting). I was under the impression that FF will render colors the same as you would see in PS or other previews (sRGB of course). At the end of the day, I need to know what color clients and customers are seeing. (Aside from monitor calibration issues). Any other ideas or solutions on here???

Here is a 4 shot comparison -- from left to right ---- Photoshop, FF 2 (Mac), FF (PC), IE 7 (PC). (using parallels for Windows browsers). Photoshop is the only correct color.

Just to confirm the sRGB conversion...


Thx for checking out the site and work Baldy!

I don't think you will like this answer, but the answer is very simple. Photoshop is the only application you are viewing with that is color-managed and is thus making an effort to show you colors that are corrected for your monitor. FF and IE are not color managed. They just dump colors to the video card. Photoshop looks at your monitor profile and provides compensation to the values before it sends them to the video card.

As others have suggested, you can rule Smugmug out of the equation by just taking the exact same JPEG image and loading it into Photoshop and into your browser (from your hard disk). It will look different in the two.

FYI, Safari is color managed so it should look nearly the same as Photoshop. I say "nearly" because there could be some minor differences, but nothing like FF or IE.

If you want me to verify that the image you are uploading to Smugmug is right (properly sRGB and properly tagged), then just post a link to the original version of the upload and I'll download it and check it out. I should be able to reproduce the same thing on my computer. Photoshop and Safari will look the same, FF and IE will be different.

Relevant in all of this is also the state of your monitor calibration. Do you have a calibrated and profiled monitor?

photowinz

jfriend wrote:

I don't think you will like this answer, but the answer is very simple. Photoshop is the only application you are viewing with that is color-managed and is thus making an effort to show you colors that are corrected for your monitor. FF and IE are not color managed. They just dump colors to the video card. Photoshop looks at your monitor profile and provides compensation to the values before it sends them to the video card.

As others have suggested, you can rule Smugmug out of the equation by just taking the exact same JPEG image and loading it into Photoshop and into your browser (from your hard disk). It will look different in the two.

FYI, Safari is color managed so it should look nearly the same as Photoshop. I say "nearly" because there could be some minor differences, but nothing like FF or IE.

If you want me to verify that the image you are uploading to Smugmug is right (properly sRGB and properly tagged), then just post a link to the original version of the upload and I'll download it and check it out. I should be able to reproduce the same thing on my computer. Photoshop and Safari will look the same, FF and IE will be different.

Relevant in all of this is also the state of your monitor calibration. Do you have a calibrated and profiled monitor?

How does your workflow go then for your web portfolios? Do you open in FF and see how the color looks and then re-process a second version for the web?

jfriend

photowinz wrote:

How does your workflow go then for your web portfolios? Do you open in FF and see how the color looks and then re-process a second version for the web?

This is a common question. The answer is "no". How your images look in Firefox on your system has absolutely nothing to do with how your images look in Firefox on my system. Firefox and IE are not color managed. As such, they don't give you accurate colors that takes into account your monitor profile. Optimizing your images for display in Firefox on your monitor may help your images on some other systems and will make them look worse on other systems.

Further, if you did optimize the images for your own Firefox display and then you or someone wanted to order a print through Smugmug, you would likely get odd print colors.

Because random systems out on the internet have no particular error bias, the best you can do is to produce accurate colored images and that will at least center your colors in the general population and also be accurate for printing.

Your best bet is to follow these steps:

• Get your own system calibrated and profiled
• Using a properly set up color-managed application (like Photoshop), produce accurate color images that look pleasing.
• Convert those images to sRGB before uploading to the Smugmug (making sure that they are properly converted (not assigned) to sRGB).
• Upload to Smugmug
• When evaluating color on Smugmug, use Safari (or FF3 with color-management turned on)
• Just live with the fact that most of your viewers are using both non-color-managed browsers and non-calibrated-profiled displays. Both of those mean that their colors will vary. They shouldn't be horrible, but they won't be optimum, but they are all different so there is nothing you can do to target their system.
• If any particular viewer (family member, customer, etc...) wants optimum color viewing, then they need to profile their display (using a hardware device that measures color) and use Safari for viewing your galleries. That will get them the same accurate color that you see in Photoshop.

Unfortunately for all of us, we are in a transition of technology. Most browsers are not yet color managed. CRTs have mostly transitioned to LCDs. Wide gamut LCDs are becoming more popular (which are, ironically, further from regular sRGB than older LCDs). Until browsers get color managed and more people have calibrated/profiled displays, this is going to happen.