newbie needs some direction

qsjewl

Let me give you all a little bit of background before I just jump in and ask for your help!

[FONT=&quot]I originally found dgrin because of smugmug. I take tons of pictures of fam/friends and wanted a place to store them. I'm not a professional (I currently have a canon S3IS). I've taken some pictures for my friends of their families for holidays and they said that I should consider doing it professionally. I will be taking some classes next month and I just purchased a canon 40D with a 50mm lens.

I was wondering if you could be so kind as to tell me your thoughts about what I need next as a beginner. I know I need a flash and the guy I purchased the camera from suggested the canon 580EX II. Is this considered an off camera flash??? I've also heard good things about the Tamron 28-75. What's the difference between that one an the tamron 17-35? I don't understand what the numbers mean. (sorry for my ignorance). I'm interested in taking pictures of families, maternity pics and portraits. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. thanks for your time.
~Michele

ps. I will also be purchasing PS CS3 soon.


- I had PMed Jeff this original message and he responded but encouraged me to post in the forum so I could get additional advice from others. He allowed me to post his responses to me here as well. I have posted them below.
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qsjewl

This is Jeff's response:


Your S3IS is a very good point/shoot type camera. I bought one of these awhile back for the youth group at church and was impressed with it. Anyway it has a 12x Zoom.....or at least "something followed by an X. The equivelent of that on a 35mm camera would be 36-432mm focal length....at least according to the litature I am able to find.

The 40D has what is called a cropped sensor with a 1.6x factor. The 50mm lens you are getting multiplied by 1.6 comes to 80mm. You will get the same effect as if you mounted an 80mm lens onto a 35mm camera. Smaller numbers(17mm) are wider angles....larger are(300mm) telephoto. You would have to spend a LOT of $$ to set your 40D up for the same reach you have with your 12x S3IS.

I think that somewhere in the 24mm to 85mm range is a great range for portrait work. Anything wider than 24mm will tend to distort and stretch things, and anything longer will put you too far away from your subject. Wider than 24mm is sometimes needed for large groups though. I used a Tamron 28-75 F2.8 lens as my primary lens for about 6 months. It is indeed a great lens for the price. My primary lens now is a Canon 17-55F2.8IS. It is better, but cost 3 times as much. I also have a 50mm and 85mm fixed focal legth lens that I use.

The best part about those two zoom lenses...the 17-55 and the 28-75 is that they have a fixed aperture. That means that adjusting zoom does not affect the aperture. They also have large apertures which is benificial if you like to have a thin depth of focus to have a sharp subject but blur the background. The large aperture is also helpful in allowing me to use them in lowlight situations.

OK enough on lenses.

The 580EXII flash is not in and of itself an off camera flash. It is THE best flash you can buy for the camera you are purchasing. It can be used off camera....and I do...but you will also need either an STE2 transmitter, or an off camera shoe cord. I advise getting knowlegable with flash use on camera before throwing a new wrench in the works.

My advise for a next purchase? You will definately need a flash sooner or later. I use flash in most all of my work...including daytime outdoor portraits. I also think that you will find youself hamstrung, and limited with the 50mm lens....especially if it is the 50mmF1.8. BUT. My advise is to get the camera...and the 50mm...and use it for awhile before making a decision one way or other. Figure out if a flash, or lens would best benifit the style of shooting you do.

I hope this a help.

Thanks,

Jeff

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qsjewl

my question to Jeff in response to his reply:

[FONT=&quot]if I understood correctly, it sound like my S3IS has better zoom than the 40D with the 50mm??? I thought that a 40D would be a better camera than a P&S....[/FONT]

qsjewl

Jeff's response to my question:

[FONT=&quot]As to which camera is better....

As I said, for a point and shoot camera the S3IS...and it's newer brother the S5IS are very good cameras. Neither can really be compared to the 40D. It is a different animal entirely. With the S3, I imagine that you eventually find your creativity to be limited by what the camera is capable of doing. The reverse will hold true with the 40D. You will not be able to say...." This photo would be better if I had a better camera". Your creativity will now be limited by how well you are able to utilize what your new camera is in fact capable of doing. If you can dream it, the 40D is capable of producing the shot...if only you can learn what is needed to squeeze that shot out. In other words. Your knowledge of how to use the 40D should be the limiting factor in what you can or cannot do with it. Obviously, you have a creative eye for composition and a knack for capturing special moments or your friends wouldn't be rushing you into business. Lucky for you, it is easier to learn how to use a camera than it is to learn how to be creative!!

The lessons will be a great...and smart...start. Take them seriously, take notes, pay attention.

Lastly, I may not have explained it well enough. The 50mm prime lens is not a zoom. If you want a closer shot you will have to walk closer.[/FONT]

qsjewl

So I guess what I'm asking is....what lens would you recommend I get if I'm interested in taking pictures of families, babies, maternity shots, etc and some sports shots (mainly of my kids and for my own personal use; not interested in selling in the sports area).

thanks.

ziggy53

qsjewl wrote:

So I guess what I'm asking is....what lens would you recommend I get if I'm interested in taking pictures of families, babies, maternity shots, etc and some sports shots (mainly of my kids and for my own personal use; not interested in selling in the sports area).

thanks.

The 50mm lens you have will be good for some of what you want to do. The next lens I would consider is the Canon EF-S 17-55mm, f2.8 IS USM.

Also look into both the off-camera cord Jeff mentioned and a flash bracket which allows positioning the flash above the lens in portrait shooting position.

Also either purchase or build some sort of flash modifier to diffuse and raise the flash illumination even further from the lens. Learn how to use bounce lighting and bounce with fill.

You still won't have the extreme range that you enjoy with the S3IS but you can eventually purchase additional glass if you want. For now stick with and learn how to use the 50mm prime and get the 17-55mm I mentioned above. They should cover many of your mentioned photography needs.

claudermilk

The thing with P&S cameras vs DSLRs is the P&S you have what you have and that's it. So the S3 has a 35mm equivalent of 36-432mm with a maximum aperture rating of f2.7 at 36mm to f3.5 at 432mm. No too bad, but it's a small piece of glass and a 12x optical zoom, implying some compromises. Now, your 40D can mount lenses anywhere from an 8mm fisheye to a 1200mm monster (B&H had a used one recently at $99k). Some of these lenses have a maximum aperture rating of up to f1.0 (the famed 50/1.0), or currently f1.2. You just have to pick the ones within those boundaries that fit your needs and budget. These lenses are also much larger and often designed with fewer compromises, allowing better images.

Your 50mm lens is called a prime and doesn't zoom at all; that's not necessarily a bad thing as the entire optical design is aimed at a 50mm focal length and these lenses are known for being exceptionally sharp. I spent a year with my 20D with only this lens (I'm assuming it's the inexpensive f1.8 version)--I learned a whole lot with that & the lack of zoom allowed me to concentrate on other aspects of the process, namely learning to set the body and to concentrate on the composition of the frame I had available.

My suggestion is don't buy any more camera gear just yet. Perhaps buy Bryan Peterson's Understanding Exposure book and just use what you have. As you learn, you will come to see what additional lenses and other accessories you need for the type of images you are trying to capture.

NikonsandVstroms

Sorry to derail the thread for a minute but how big is that 1200 mm lens?
I've used a astrophysics telescope with my DSLR, and it's almost 4 feet long and equates to at 1200 mm f7.5

nightowlcat

This one?
http://mir.com.my/rb/photography/companies/nikon/nikkoresources/zoomsMF/12001700mm.htm

NikonsandVstroms wrote:

Sorry to derail the thread for a minute but how big is that 1200 mm lens?
I've used a astrophysics telescope with my DSLR, and it's almost 4 feet long and equates to at 1200 mm f7.5

Shima

ziggy53 wrote:

The 50mm lens you have will be good for some of what you want to do. The next lens I would consider is the Canon EF-S 17-55mm, f2.8 IS USM.

Also look into both the off-camera cord Jeff mentioned and a flash bracket which allows positioning the flash above the lens in portrait shooting position.

Also either purchase or build some sort of flash modifier to diffuse and raise the flash illumination even further from the lens. Learn how to use bounce lighting and bounce with fill.

You still won't have the extreme range that you enjoy with the S3IS but you can eventually purchase additional glass if you want. For now stick with and learn how to use the 50mm prime and get the 17-55mm I mentioned above. They should cover many of your mentioned photography needs.

I just picked up a 17-55 f2.8 (I had been using a 24-105 f4) and it truly is a GREAT lens, I do a lot of portrait work and it really suits my needs. So +1 to that recommendation.

darkdragon

IMHO - Your next purchase should be a good (not cheap) tripod. You will need a lot if you get longer lenses and it is a good idea o get in habit of using it now that you are just starting out with the 40D.

I also recommend to keep your manual with you at all times and read it cover to cover. A great book to go with it is Magic Lantern Guides: Canon EOS 40D

joshhuntnm

Shima wrote:

I just picked up a 17-55 f2.8 (I had been using a 24-105 f4) and it truly is a GREAT lens, I do a lot of portrait work and it really suits my needs. So +1 to that recommendation.

my son and I are debating between these two lenses. How would you compare/ contrast them? Why did you cange? Are they equally sharp, just different focal range?

Shima

joshhuntnm wrote:

my son and I are debating between these two lenses. How would you compare/ contrast them? Why did you cange? Are they equally sharp, just different focal range?

I found them both to be very sharp, the 17-55 is maybe a hair sharper. The main reason I changed was because I really needed that extra stop of speed from the f2.8 vs the f4. Both have IS... but IS doesn't help with action or low light and movement. The 2.8 has been really nice so far, this morning I will be photographing my husbands martial arts testing, so that will be a good test for low lighting inside + action. We'll see how they come out

Moogle Pepper

joshhuntnm wrote:

my son and I are debating between these two lenses. How would you compare/ contrast them? Why did you cange? Are they equally sharp, just different focal range?

Why don't you get the 17-55 and let your son get the 24-105? wink

or vice versa! That way, you can both try out those lenses!

jcdill

qsjewl wrote:

my question to Jeff in response to his reply:

[FONT=&quot]if I understood correctly, it sound like my S3IS has better zoom than the 40D with the 50mm??? I thought that a 40D would be a better camera than a P&S....[/FONT]

The quandry here is defining "better".

The 40D gives you more much control. You can buy better quality lenses, get sharper images.

The S3IS is easier to use. One zoom goes from wide angle to telephoto. Many "auto" settings where the camera does most of the work establishing the ISO, shutter speed, aperture, metering mode, flash mode, etc.

My recommendation is to stick with the S3 until you want to do things you can't do with that camera. Learn how to use ALL the manual functions until you no longer want to use any of the auto modes. Learn how to manually set the focus. Learn how to shoot in AV mode, in TV mode, in M mode. Learn how to take photos at night using the Bulb mode. Learn how to use flash fill in the daytime, indoors, to shoot someone against a sunset, etc. Learn how to SET the camera to do these things, because when you move away from a P&S to a DSLR you have to do more to setup the camera to get these shots. A P&S does it "for you" - most of the time the choices it makes are pretty good, but what you are doing is "taking pictures" rather than being "a photographer". You need to learn how to do these things and how to adjust them when the default settings aren't optimal for your particular situation or for the image you want to produce.

When you get ready to upgrade, budget first for good glass. Your images will never be any better than the glass that gathers the light and delivers it to your sensor. Learn why a $2000 telephoto lens is worth 10x the cost of the $200 telephoto lens (same focal length), and why you will get better photos with the better lens.

Your lenses will outlast your camera body. You will probably want to upgrade the camera body within 1-3 years after purchase, but good glass will last 20 years or more.

jc

joshhuntnm

Moogle Pepper wrote:

Why don't you get the 17-55 and let your son get the 24-105? wink

or vice versa! That way, you can both try out those lenses!

We will likely do that.

Tee Why

If you are new and thinking about what to get for the shots you are describing, then I'd start slow and go from there.
If you already have a 50mm lens, that should serve you well for portrait type of setting. What I'd recommend is a general purpose "walking around lens" for general purpose. Going from cheapest to most expensive consider the following lenses. Canon 18-55mm IS, Sigma 17-70, Tamron 17-50, Canon 17-85 IS, and Canon 17-55 IS.

I disagree with the need to get a Canon 580 flash. If you are a newbie, that flash will more than likely complicate things. Learn about exposure, experiment with the pop up and then later get a flash. For a hobbiest, a Canon 430EX is much cheaper and should be more than adequate.

For sports, you need a telephoto lens. Going from cheap to more expensive consider a Sigma 70-300mm, Canon 70-300 IS, Tamron/Sigma/Canon 70-200 f2.8.

Good luck.

Shima

joshhuntnm wrote:

We will likely do that.

This sounds like a good choice. I would have kept both were it not for the cost associated with doing such a thing. (because I could have just let my husband start to use the 24-105 instead)... alas though, they are both decently priced lenses.