Those are nice, but the fence is distracting. If you get right up on the fence, the lens will focus past the fence and it's not as noticeable.
Or, go inside the fence.
I've done a number of games for 4-9 year olds. I usually go right on the field, about 10 feet from the line, probably 10 feet behind first base. It gives great angle to the batter and the player as he's running towards first. It also gets good angle for fielders throwing the ball to first or second base.
I've never gotten any bad looks, let alone words. People think I'm just a parent, even if it's not my son's game. Nobody says anything as long as you keep out of the way enough.
Happy shooting.
_______________________
Canon 7D (2), 40D and 30D
Canon 300mm f/2.8L USM IS
Canon 70-200 f/2.8L USM IS
Canon 24-70 f/2.8L USM
Canon 1.4x Extender
Canon 430 EX Flash
Watched over by an awesome Pelican!
Totally agree with the previous commenter about trying to get "inside the fence".
I shoot softball mostly, sometimes baseball, and getting inside the fence is the best bet. I usually am hanging out right behind first base or on third base.
First base line is great for hitters who are running to first, third base is great for left handed hitters and runners from second to third.....
nice work though. Your son doesn't look too happy after his first win though.
Yeah, I'd love to get inside the fence to do some shooting, not gonna do it 'till it will actually be worth the time and effort. Shooting with a D40 and the kit lens won't get me the images that I want to produce. 10-15 more team portrait sessions might buy me that 70-200 f/2.8 AF-S VR, then we'll talk about some serious action shots.
Eventually Photographers, will not be allowed field access, without shooting credential, Press, Media etc. or you will be forced to wear a helmet.
Having parents and inexperienced wannabee's on the field, is dangerous to the shooter, the players and there is a tremendous liability issue.
Enjoy your field access, until you get a foul ball coming straight for you, and you don't see it, because your focused on getting a shot.
When i am working a game, and the umps give access to someone obviously inexperienced, it's time to leave the field.
In Virginia, coaches are already being required to wear helmets!
Dude, you sound like a first-rate jerk. No need to disrespect people here.
_______________________
Canon 7D (2), 40D and 30D
Canon 300mm f/2.8L USM IS
Canon 70-200 f/2.8L USM IS
Canon 24-70 f/2.8L USM
Canon 1.4x Extender
Canon 430 EX Flash
Watched over by an awesome Pelican!
I may be a jerk, but until you get hit, it's safer to be stupid.
I don't think anyone is arguing that it can be dangerous to be on the field and care needs to be taken. It's more just iwth the tone in which it was brought up.
Back on topic. I shot a friend of mine (little guy) at his first little league game, I think he is 7 or 8. I did exactly that, I was out along the first base line, just far enough onto the field to be able to have a line of sight to the batter, but still being probably 15 feet from the baseline. I think I got some pretty good ones. To the OP I think you did a great job considering the fence. That can be tough to deal wtih!
Iagree, I work hard at being honest, honesty hurts.
When you or someone you know gets hurt or hit, then you will change your arrogant tune.
Try sitting in a dugout, before a game, minding your own business, and then out of no where you take a baseball square on your arm, leg. Let me know how that feels.
I have been there and having field access when you are unprotected, is not a priviledge to be taken for granted. I may be a jerk, but until you get hit, it's safer to be stupid.
If your intent was safety, you have a harsh way of approaching it.
I am retired Air Force and spent a lot of time assessing risk and hazards. Sitting 10-15 feet behind first base at a kid's baseball game is hardly a severe risk behavior.
I primarily shoot 5-7 year old kids; I've yet to see one send a screamer down the first base line. Most of them have to get the tee and dribble it to the pitcher.
I would agree, though, that the risk quickly climbs as the kids' skill does.
This thread was about pictures. I still think it's a good idea to go in the fence (for the age of the kids posted). If someone is feeble enough to get hurt at such a game, they are probably 1,000 percent more likely to break a hip on the walk to the field.
We're not talking about MLB here. These are little kids with undeveloped power and skills.
By the way, take a look at the second pic. Look at the assistant/coaches on the 3rd base line, standing inside the fence. You think they'd be standing there if it were that dangerous? Heck no. I probably sit 3 times that far away from the batter. Hardly a kill zone...
_______________________
Canon 7D (2), 40D and 30D
Canon 300mm f/2.8L USM IS
Canon 70-200 f/2.8L USM IS
Canon 24-70 f/2.8L USM
Canon 1.4x Extender
Canon 430 EX Flash
Watched over by an awesome Pelican!
I don't think anyone is arguing that it can be dangerous to be on the field and care needs to be taken. It's more just iwth the tone in which it was brought up.
Back on topic. I shot a friend of mine (little guy) at his first little league game, I think he is 7 or 8. I did exactly that, I was out along the first base line, just far enough onto the field to be able to have a line of sight to the batter, but still being probably 15 feet from the baseline. I think I got some pretty good ones. To the OP I think you did a great job considering the fence. That can be tough to deal wtih!
That's correct. I thought there were better ways to make a point than insulting people (which I thought was being done).
My son is 8. From my perspective, he can hit with the best of them, and I know his abilities. I don't worry being behind 1st base; he isn't going to hurt an adult at that range, at least not one that's got an ounce of situational awareness.
I would have a lot more caution with older kids, but kids up to 9, in my opinion, don't pose a significant risk. I would caution much more with older kids. I have a nephew that's 12 and they *could* hurt someone, no doubt.
Know the sport, know the risk. Decide. Act. Live with the results...
Best of luck.
_______________________
Canon 7D (2), 40D and 30D
Canon 300mm f/2.8L USM IS
Canon 70-200 f/2.8L USM IS
Canon 24-70 f/2.8L USM
Canon 1.4x Extender
Canon 430 EX Flash
Watched over by an awesome Pelican!
Do you carry liability insurance? You are missing the larger picture here. It really doesn't have a whole lot to do with getting hit, it has more to do with protecting the organizers, the participants and yourself.
I've never gotten any bad looks, let alone words. People think I'm just a parent, even if it's not my son's game. Nobody says anything as long as you keep out of the way enough.
This is not something that IMHO something that should be suggested unless you have a separate business that carries liability insurance. Are you willing to risk all you have for a picture? Having a camera does not grant you any special rights, anymore than the person sitting in the stands with no camera. Because the fence is in the way of viewing the game for them is it OK for them to sit along the 1st base line so their view is unobstructed?
Your quote is one of the reasons that field access is becoming more of an issue for those that do have a legitimate reason for being on the field. I have never stepped onto a field without permission from the organizers and talking to the umpires to let them know I will be there. Many umpires will have a designated spot that is a dead ball zone that you must remain in which in many cases restricts your shooting. Many higher levels (some high school and higher levels of NCAA) will allow no field access at all even with the proper credentials.
I don't worry being behind 1st base; he isn't going to hurt an adult at that range, at least not one that's got an ounce of situational awareness.
When you are looking through a camera you have little to no time to react when something happens. You are not aware of what is going on around you because you are looking through a narrow field of view and you are watching the subject and keeping the focus on it. I rarely see the ball when shooting until it is going somewhere, whether it is batted or thrown and many times that is to late to do anything about it. Keep in mind at the younger ages that the bases are shorter and yes the ball is not hit or thrown as hard but the closer distances cut your reaction time down. It is very possible to get hurt even at the younger ages.
I recently very narrowly avoided a ball through the front of my lens shooting a double play that resulted in an overthrow. Easy thing to see develop when watching, not easy when concentrating on shooting the play. By the time I saw where the ball was headed I had no choice but keep the camera up and let the ball hit that instead of my face. Luckily it missed my head by inch or so. That is just one of many close calls over the years, and yes I have been hit in spite of all of my precautions.
Know the sport, know the risk. Decide. Act. Live with the results...
I hope you can live with the results when something happens on the field. Please folks you need to think about what you open yourself up to. There are many ways to get the shots you want outside the fences, challenge yourself! If you are going on the field take the proper steps to insure yourself, have access granted and approved by all and keep everyone safe! This is a must if you are selling photos, and if you are not, keep in mind the litigious society we live in.
We're not talking about MLB here. These are little kids with undeveloped power and skills.
By the way, take a look at the second pic. Look at the assistant/coaches on the 3rd base line, standing inside the fence. You think they'd be standing there if it were that dangerous? Heck no. I probably sit 3 times that far away from the batter. Hardly a kill zone...
Actually, with the number of pop-ups at the last game, I think those of us on the bleachers behind the fence were the ones in the most danger.
You are not starting a fight, there are some of us who visit here, with more experience and knowledge.
I have no axe to grind, you can go on the field, you can go any place you want. I was just making an honest point, that being careful for what you wish fore, is the way to go.
Many who want to shoot sports, have no clue of how difficult or dangerous it can be.
All,
I want to apologize for this entire mess I stirred up.
First, let me write that I was only trying to help. I am the father of an 8-year-old sports maniac that is the light of my life. I was only trying to provide a tip that has worked well for me.
Second, let me write that you are all correct--I should never give advice like that and I urge everyone to fully assess and understand risks before taking any actions.
Third, let me clear up a few things...
1) No, I don't have insurance. In the world I grew up in, one didn't worry about lawyers or insurance to photograph family members or friends at sporting events. That PC crap makes me sick. I'm glad my community isn't that tightly wound.
2) I have always been invited to shoot games; I have never gone onto a field without the permission of the coaches and ump (when there is one). I've never had an authority or parent object to me being on the field.
3) Do I think having a camera gives me special access? Not necessarily, but in my cases, it has--because it was the teams that invited me to do the shoots. I just don't show up without an invitation.
4) Folks keep bringing up examples of deathly line drives and NCAA or high school. The ages I have shot (only ages I have shot) are 5-9, and mostly 5-7 or so. I understand that people here might have different experiences, but I have yet to meet a 6 year old that's going to take my head off. If some have, we have a few teams that would like to draft him/her. Maybe it's difficult for some to contrast MLB atmospheres to snot-nosed tee-ballers...never been hard for me.
5) Age 11 kids are not 6-year-olds. Sure, that's a bigger risk--they're stronger and more athletic and competent. But that's not what I was writing about, nor (I don't believe) the age of the kids in the thread's original pics. The older they are, the bigger the risk...and my reluctance to put myself in harm's way.
6) As a retired military officer, I have to laugh (respectfully) of someone saying how dangerous a kids' baseball game can be (from that distance). Brother, let me give you a first-hand report--there are a lot more dangerous things in our world. If that's the worst I have to face, I'm a happy man. I'll take my chances.
Now, with all that said, I am reluctantly leaving this forum.
I was just trying to help, but I'm apparently a hazard to others and don't mean to have that effect. I'll go back to doing things my own way and keep my mouth shut. RIP common sense.
Best of luck to everyone.
Mods - please delete all my previous posts and the SportsNut account. I learned some things here, but I need to find a forum that fits me better. Thank you.
_______________________
Canon 7D (2), 40D and 30D
Canon 300mm f/2.8L USM IS
Canon 70-200 f/2.8L USM IS
Canon 24-70 f/2.8L USM
Canon 1.4x Extender
Canon 430 EX Flash
Watched over by an awesome Pelican!
I have to agree with Sportsnut here that there has to be a certain amount of risk assessment before you go out there. In his case he has assessed that 5-7 year olds are not a threat to life safety. I agree. Has he said that everyone should go onto any field they choose? No. If he has been invited onto the field then so be it. It is not a concern of anyone else here. What has happened to this place that one or two people can make someone feel that they need to leave the forum when all they want is to share the pictures they have taken and ask for constructive criticism?
Sportsshooter you claim that you are just being "brutally honest" not "arrogant." However statements telling us all how much more experience and knowledge you have are in fact just that. Arrogance. I have read many of your posts and all are the same, you being a jerk. Instead of offering constructive criticism of a photo and helping someone expand their knowledge in the hobby they have chosen you ridicule their work. BS comments like "Makes my head hurt" are unneeded and add nothing to the discussion except animosity. You want brutal honesty? You're an arrogant prick.
In my work I am directly responsible for the lives of five people not including my own. As such I am also responsible for 1 husband, 3 wives, 1 girlfriend, and 10 kids (again not including my own). Every decision I make determines whether or not these people go home the next morning to see their families. I may know a little more about risk vs. benefit assessment than you do. I walk into burning buildings for a living, you click a shutter button, go sit in your dugout.
In closing would I walk onto a field with five year olds playing baseball? Yes. Would I walk into the infield of Indianapolis Raceway Park with nothing but a 2 foot wall between myself and a careening hunk of metal? Yes. Would I step out onto the field at one of my softball games? No. I've seen how the ball moves during those games. I also would not step onto the field of our local AAA team, but that's mainly because I'd get arrested.
You want brutal honesty? You're an arrogant prick.
In my work I am directly responsible for the lives of five people not including my own. As such I am also responsible for 1 husband, 3 wives, 1 girlfriend, and 10 kids (again not including my own). Every decision I make determines whether or not these people go home the next morning to see their families. I may know a little more about risk vs. benefit assessment than you do. I walk into burning buildings for a living, you click a shutter button, go sit in your dugout.
In closing would I walk onto a field with five year olds playing baseball? Yes. Would I walk into the infield of Indianapolis Raceway Park with nothing but a 2 foot wall between myself and a careening hunk of metal? Yes. Would I step out onto the field at one of my softball games? No. I've seen how the ball moves during those games. I also would not step onto the field of our local AAA team, but that's mainly because I'd get arrested.
Wow. When sportshooter posted this;
Until you get hit with a ball.
so just keep standing on the field.
Eventually Photographers, will not be allowed field access, without shooting credential, Press, Media etc. or you will be forced to wear a helmet.
Having parents and inexperienced wannabee's on the field, is dangerous to the shooter, the players and there is a tremendous liability issue.
Enjoy your field access, until you get a foul ball coming straight for you, and you don't see it, because your focused on getting a shot.
When i am working a game, and the umps give access to someone obviously inexperienced, it's time to leave the field. In Virginia, coaches are already being required to wear helmets!
He wasn't not being, direspectful, arrogant, or name calling. He was giving legititmate info.
But then the new guy jumped in, called him a jerk, and said that he needed to be more respectful of the members here................
And then you post this;
In closing would I walk onto a field with five year olds playing baseball? Yes.
Regardless of age of the players, if you don't have permission from the LEAGUE, to be on the field, GTF off the field.
I was shooting a tourney last week at a venue where I have exclusive rights to be the only shooter "on the field".
After a couple innings along the first base line, I moved to third base. A "PWAC" decided to replace me along the first base line. Before anyone could tell her to get off the fileld, she ended up interefering with the next play, an overthrow to first base, which ended up allowing a run to be scored.
It wasn't game deciding run, since the game wasn't close. But this is what happens when you let just 'anyone' on the field.
But don't post here, and say it's Ok for you to be out on the field. Because, unless you have permission from the league to be 'on the field', and the 'experince' to be on the field, you are a liability to the game, and the league.
Regardless of the age of the players.
Btw, I commend you for you're fire fighting duties. My best friend is the Chief of a VFD.
What ever happened to PHOTOGRAPHY ??? I can see from this post that photography is the last thing on some peoples minds.. !! Jeeperz ! Look at this language ??? All this is headed in which direction ??
How did we get from a baseball game of children, into burnng buildings ??
Spagboy you did well..your images tell the story quite well, the other stuph of others was not necessary, it is just the need for other people to show 'their need to rant'.
When people post in this negative fashion.. I have found it best to just ignore them. by responding to their lame ideas.. is just putting more fuel on the fire.. (well at least we have someone to save us here in this forum) if these pages catch on fire.
He wasn't not being, direspectful, arrogant, or name calling. He was giving legititmate info.
But then the new guy jumped in, called him a jerk, and said that he needed to be more respectful of the members here................
And then you post this;
Regardless of age of the players, if you don't have permission from the LEAGUE, to be on the field, GTF off the field.
I was shooting a tourney last week at a venue where I have exclusive rights to be the only shooter "on the field".
After a couple innings along the first base line, I moved to third base. A "PWAC" decided to replace me along the first base line. Before anyone could tell her to get off the fileld, she ended up interefering with the next play, an overthrow to first base, which ended up allowing a run to be scored.
It wasn't game deciding run, since the game wasn't close. But this is what happens when you let just 'anyone' on the field.
But don't post here, and say it's Ok for you to be out on the field. Because, unless you have permission from the league to be 'on the field', and the 'experince' to be on the field, you are a liability to the game, and the league.
Regardless of the age of the players.
Btw, I commend you for you're fire fighting duties. My best friend is the Chief of a VFD.
Sorry when I typed that, in my head, I thought it was implied that there would be permission to be on the field. I was simply trying to point out that there are some places that it is safe to be and others not so much. I do not condone wandering onto the field of play without permission.
When he referrs to inexperienced wanabees he implied that was what the OP was. That would be disrespectful and name calling all wrapped into one. Let alone the sarcastic tone of his original statement of "until you get hit with a foul ball" He has no idea the level of experience the OP has with baseball in general. Not necessarily with photography, but with time in the game. All in all I am just fed up with his general attitude from reading through his previous posts. After the first two or three all I can say is the guy (or girl though I highly doubt it) is in fact a jerk. No constructive criticism, just sarcastic BS in his posts. But I'm done with it. I hope the OP doesn't leave the forums as there is a lot to be learned here, you just have to find the right people to learn from.
<o:p> </o:p>
Subject: Official Baseball Rule changes for 2008
<o:p> </o:p>
Major League Baseball’s Playing Rules Committee has adopted a number of slight changes to the language of the Official Baseball Rules that will take effect in the 2008 season.
<o:p> </o:p>
Rule 4.05 in Official Baseball rules now requires that a coach, until being passed by a batted ball, must position himself no closer to home plate than the front edge of the coach’s box and no closer to fair territory than the edge of the coach’s box closest to the field.<o:p></o:p>
<o:p> </o:p>
Major League’s General Managers also adopted a new coaches helmet rule, which mandates all coaches “on the lines” shall wear a protective helmet.
<o:p> </o:p>
The American Legion uses Official Baseball Rules authorized by the Commissioner of Baseball; therefore American Legion coaches shall be mandated to observe the new coaching box rules as well as wearing a protective helmet. Coaches may wear a no-flap; a single flap or a double flap helmet. The type of helmet shall be a personal choice of the coach. MLB will not mandate the type of helmet nor shall The American Legion dictate the type of helmet a coach wishes to wear while in the coaching box.<o:p></o:p>
<o:p> </o:p>
These rule changed do not appear in the 2008 American Legion rules. We did not get this official language until after our 2008 rulebook was printed and distributed. <o:p></o:p>
<o:p> </o:p> Helmet Rule Violations: Umpires are instructed not to put the ball into play and to warn the coach on wearing a protective helmet. If the coach refuses to wear a helmet he shall be ejected from the game.<o:p></o:p>
<o:p> </o:p> Coaching Box Rule Violations: Umpires are instructed to warn the coaches on the rule. Coaches who fail to observe the rules shall be warned. Continued violation may result in the coach being ejected. <o:p></o:p>
<o:p> </o:p>
These rules are a result of a minor league baseball coach being killed in 2007. These rules are a safety rule. If coaches are confused as to what type of helmet to wear, we suggest they watch any Major League or Minor League ballgame and follow the lead of the professional coaches “on the lines”.<o:p></o:p>
<o:p> </o:p>
Now; where I live, when we play baseball, NONE .. of those rules apply .
Yawn .. .. Creating a photograph is what this thread is about ! :Parents can easily do that from the 'stands'. this is not exhibition museum type quality were after here.
Family memories.. I am really so shocked as to why people are so quick to plaster their copyright notice on thier images.
did you know ?? that is only half the process. the other half is to physically send proof to the office itself. but I really don't see someone stealing these images to mass produce them and make any money.
I am just wondering why ? I see new bees create entry level images and they spend more time creating the fancy name logo and copyright notice than in thinking about the image itself.
As a new bee myself.. the one thing I notice in all forums is the need to point out NEGATIVE comments, find something negative to mention rather than just focus on the positive. EMPHASIS on the positive will lead to much quicker understanding of the Art of Photography ! and just because someone says something negative about an image,.. .. that does not mean it is true.. it is just 'their' opinion. The public's opinion is what counts. Not just one person .
It would not be that big of a deal if all the people inside the fence of a baseball/softball/teeball game had to wear a helmet, should that rule eventually trickle down from MLB to little league. If you're a even just a part-time pro photographer, what you spend on that helmet would be drop in the bucket. Too bad there's nothing that can offer the same degree of protection to your camera.
I have not ever attempted to photograph a baseball game of any sort, but it just does not look like there is an ideal way to do it in most small fields. The bleachers don't usually rise above the fence, so a long telephoto lense won't work, unless you find some gap in the outfield fence through which you can shoot. Go inside, and then you've got to worry about getting hit while trying to get the shot. If you poke 70 - 200 mm lense right up to the fence, maybe the angle will be narrow enough to exclude the fence, but only if you're shooting perpendicular to the fence. I have done that at a football game before, and it works at 200 mm. If you shoot through it at a 45 degree angle, it's not likely to work. At the MLB games, I would think there are a lot of pros who shoot from high positions outside the field, but with little league, there are no such positions available.
Family memories.. I am really so shocked as to why people are so quick to plaster their copyright notice on thier images.
Because some people will steal them and enter into contests, or steal them and put them on their MySpace. When you invest time, money, and talent you want it protected.
Comments
Or, go inside the fence.
I've done a number of games for 4-9 year olds. I usually go right on the field, about 10 feet from the line, probably 10 feet behind first base. It gives great angle to the batter and the player as he's running towards first. It also gets good angle for fielders throwing the ball to first or second base.
I've never gotten any bad looks, let alone words. People think I'm just a parent, even if it's not my son's game. Nobody says anything as long as you keep out of the way enough.
Happy shooting.
Canon 7D (2), 40D and 30D
Canon 300mm f/2.8L USM IS
Canon 70-200 f/2.8L USM IS
Canon 24-70 f/2.8L USM
Canon 1.4x Extender
Canon 430 EX Flash
Watched over by an awesome Pelican!
I shoot softball mostly, sometimes baseball, and getting inside the fence is the best bet. I usually am hanging out right behind first base or on third base.
First base line is great for hitters who are running to first, third base is great for left handed hitters and runners from second to third.....
nice work though. Your son doesn't look too happy after his first win though.
Mike.
http://www.fourangelsphotography.com/
-Geof
Dude, you sound like a first-rate jerk. No need to disrespect people here.
Canon 7D (2), 40D and 30D
Canon 300mm f/2.8L USM IS
Canon 70-200 f/2.8L USM IS
Canon 24-70 f/2.8L USM
Canon 1.4x Extender
Canon 430 EX Flash
Watched over by an awesome Pelican!
I don't think anyone is arguing that it can be dangerous to be on the field and care needs to be taken. It's more just iwth the tone in which it was brought up.
Back on topic. I shot a friend of mine (little guy) at his first little league game, I think he is 7 or 8. I did exactly that, I was out along the first base line, just far enough onto the field to be able to have a line of sight to the batter, but still being probably 15 feet from the baseline. I think I got some pretty good ones. To the OP I think you did a great job considering the fence. That can be tough to deal wtih!
If your intent was safety, you have a harsh way of approaching it.
I am retired Air Force and spent a lot of time assessing risk and hazards. Sitting 10-15 feet behind first base at a kid's baseball game is hardly a severe risk behavior.
I primarily shoot 5-7 year old kids; I've yet to see one send a screamer down the first base line. Most of them have to get the tee and dribble it to the pitcher.
I would agree, though, that the risk quickly climbs as the kids' skill does.
This thread was about pictures. I still think it's a good idea to go in the fence (for the age of the kids posted). If someone is feeble enough to get hurt at such a game, they are probably 1,000 percent more likely to break a hip on the walk to the field.
We're not talking about MLB here. These are little kids with undeveloped power and skills.
By the way, take a look at the second pic. Look at the assistant/coaches on the 3rd base line, standing inside the fence. You think they'd be standing there if it were that dangerous? Heck no. I probably sit 3 times that far away from the batter. Hardly a kill zone...
Canon 7D (2), 40D and 30D
Canon 300mm f/2.8L USM IS
Canon 70-200 f/2.8L USM IS
Canon 24-70 f/2.8L USM
Canon 1.4x Extender
Canon 430 EX Flash
Watched over by an awesome Pelican!
That's correct. I thought there were better ways to make a point than insulting people (which I thought was being done).
My son is 8. From my perspective, he can hit with the best of them, and I know his abilities. I don't worry being behind 1st base; he isn't going to hurt an adult at that range, at least not one that's got an ounce of situational awareness.
I would have a lot more caution with older kids, but kids up to 9, in my opinion, don't pose a significant risk. I would caution much more with older kids. I have a nephew that's 12 and they *could* hurt someone, no doubt.
Know the sport, know the risk. Decide. Act. Live with the results...
Best of luck.
Canon 7D (2), 40D and 30D
Canon 300mm f/2.8L USM IS
Canon 70-200 f/2.8L USM IS
Canon 24-70 f/2.8L USM
Canon 1.4x Extender
Canon 430 EX Flash
Watched over by an awesome Pelican!
This is not something that IMHO something that should be suggested unless you have a separate business that carries liability insurance. Are you willing to risk all you have for a picture? Having a camera does not grant you any special rights, anymore than the person sitting in the stands with no camera. Because the fence is in the way of viewing the game for them is it OK for them to sit along the 1st base line so their view is unobstructed?
Your quote is one of the reasons that field access is becoming more of an issue for those that do have a legitimate reason for being on the field. I have never stepped onto a field without permission from the organizers and talking to the umpires to let them know I will be there. Many umpires will have a designated spot that is a dead ball zone that you must remain in which in many cases restricts your shooting. Many higher levels (some high school and higher levels of NCAA) will allow no field access at all even with the proper credentials.
When you are looking through a camera you have little to no time to react when something happens. You are not aware of what is going on around you because you are looking through a narrow field of view and you are watching the subject and keeping the focus on it. I rarely see the ball when shooting until it is going somewhere, whether it is batted or thrown and many times that is to late to do anything about it. Keep in mind at the younger ages that the bases are shorter and yes the ball is not hit or thrown as hard but the closer distances cut your reaction time down. It is very possible to get hurt even at the younger ages.
I recently very narrowly avoided a ball through the front of my lens shooting a double play that resulted in an overthrow. Easy thing to see develop when watching, not easy when concentrating on shooting the play. By the time I saw where the ball was headed I had no choice but keep the camera up and let the ball hit that instead of my face. Luckily it missed my head by inch or so. That is just one of many close calls over the years, and yes I have been hit in spite of all of my precautions.
I hope you can live with the results when something happens on the field. Please folks you need to think about what you open yourself up to. There are many ways to get the shots you want outside the fences, challenge yourself! If you are going on the field take the proper steps to insure yourself, have access granted and approved by all and keep everyone safe! This is a must if you are selling photos, and if you are not, keep in mind the litigious society we live in.
Canon Gear
Actually, with the number of pop-ups at the last game, I think those of us on the bleachers behind the fence were the ones in the most danger.
-Geof
All,
I want to apologize for this entire mess I stirred up.
First, let me write that I was only trying to help. I am the father of an 8-year-old sports maniac that is the light of my life. I was only trying to provide a tip that has worked well for me.
Second, let me write that you are all correct--I should never give advice like that and I urge everyone to fully assess and understand risks before taking any actions.
Third, let me clear up a few things...
1) No, I don't have insurance. In the world I grew up in, one didn't worry about lawyers or insurance to photograph family members or friends at sporting events. That PC crap makes me sick. I'm glad my community isn't that tightly wound.
2) I have always been invited to shoot games; I have never gone onto a field without the permission of the coaches and ump (when there is one). I've never had an authority or parent object to me being on the field.
3) Do I think having a camera gives me special access? Not necessarily, but in my cases, it has--because it was the teams that invited me to do the shoots. I just don't show up without an invitation.
4) Folks keep bringing up examples of deathly line drives and NCAA or high school. The ages I have shot (only ages I have shot) are 5-9, and mostly 5-7 or so. I understand that people here might have different experiences, but I have yet to meet a 6 year old that's going to take my head off. If some have, we have a few teams that would like to draft him/her. Maybe it's difficult for some to contrast MLB atmospheres to snot-nosed tee-ballers...never been hard for me.
5) Age 11 kids are not 6-year-olds. Sure, that's a bigger risk--they're stronger and more athletic and competent. But that's not what I was writing about, nor (I don't believe) the age of the kids in the thread's original pics. The older they are, the bigger the risk...and my reluctance to put myself in harm's way.
6) As a retired military officer, I have to laugh (respectfully) of someone saying how dangerous a kids' baseball game can be (from that distance). Brother, let me give you a first-hand report--there are a lot more dangerous things in our world. If that's the worst I have to face, I'm a happy man. I'll take my chances.
Now, with all that said, I am reluctantly leaving this forum.
I was just trying to help, but I'm apparently a hazard to others and don't mean to have that effect. I'll go back to doing things my own way and keep my mouth shut. RIP common sense.
Best of luck to everyone.
Mods - please delete all my previous posts and the SportsNut account. I learned some things here, but I need to find a forum that fits me better. Thank you.
Canon 7D (2), 40D and 30D
Canon 300mm f/2.8L USM IS
Canon 70-200 f/2.8L USM IS
Canon 24-70 f/2.8L USM
Canon 1.4x Extender
Canon 430 EX Flash
Watched over by an awesome Pelican!
Sportsshooter you claim that you are just being "brutally honest" not "arrogant." However statements telling us all how much more experience and knowledge you have are in fact just that. Arrogance. I have read many of your posts and all are the same, you being a jerk. Instead of offering constructive criticism of a photo and helping someone expand their knowledge in the hobby they have chosen you ridicule their work. BS comments like "Makes my head hurt" are unneeded and add nothing to the discussion except animosity. You want brutal honesty? You're an arrogant prick.
In my work I am directly responsible for the lives of five people not including my own. As such I am also responsible for 1 husband, 3 wives, 1 girlfriend, and 10 kids (again not including my own). Every decision I make determines whether or not these people go home the next morning to see their families. I may know a little more about risk vs. benefit assessment than you do. I walk into burning buildings for a living, you click a shutter button, go sit in your dugout.
In closing would I walk onto a field with five year olds playing baseball? Yes. Would I walk into the infield of Indianapolis Raceway Park with nothing but a 2 foot wall between myself and a careening hunk of metal? Yes. Would I step out onto the field at one of my softball games? No. I've seen how the ball moves during those games. I also would not step onto the field of our local AAA team, but that's mainly because I'd get arrested.
Wow.
He wasn't not being, direspectful, arrogant, or name calling. He was giving legititmate info.
But then the new guy jumped in, called him a jerk, and said that he needed to be more respectful of the members here................
And then you post this;
Regardless of age of the players, if you don't have permission from the LEAGUE, to be on the field, GTF off the field.
I was shooting a tourney last week at a venue where I have exclusive rights to be the only shooter "on the field".
After a couple innings along the first base line, I moved to third base. A "PWAC" decided to replace me along the first base line. Before anyone could tell her to get off the fileld, she ended up interefering with the next play, an overthrow to first base, which ended up allowing a run to be scored.
It wasn't game deciding run, since the game wasn't close. But this is what happens when you let just 'anyone' on the field.
But don't post here, and say it's Ok for you to be out on the field. Because, unless you have permission from the league to be 'on the field', and the 'experince' to be on the field, you are a liability to the game, and the league.
Regardless of the age of the players.
Btw, I commend you for you're fire fighting duties. My best friend is the Chief of a VFD.
http://www.knippixels.com
How did we get from a baseball game of children, into burnng buildings ??
Spagboy you did well..your images tell the story quite well, the other stuph of others was not necessary, it is just the need for other people to show 'their need to rant'.
When people post in this negative fashion.. I have found it best to just ignore them. by responding to their lame ideas.. is just putting more fuel on the fire.. (well at least we have someone to save us here in this forum) if these pages catch on fire.
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Sorry when I typed that, in my head, I thought it was implied that there would be permission to be on the field. I was simply trying to point out that there are some places that it is safe to be and others not so much. I do not condone wandering onto the field of play without permission.
When he referrs to inexperienced wanabees he implied that was what the OP was. That would be disrespectful and name calling all wrapped into one. Let alone the sarcastic tone of his original statement of "until you get hit with a foul ball" He has no idea the level of experience the OP has with baseball in general. Not necessarily with photography, but with time in the game. All in all I am just fed up with his general attitude from reading through his previous posts. After the first two or three all I can say is the guy (or girl though I highly doubt it) is in fact a jerk. No constructive criticism, just sarcastic BS in his posts. But I'm done with it. I hope the OP doesn't leave the forums as there is a lot to be learned here, you just have to find the right people to learn from.
Subject: Official Baseball Rule changes for 2008
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Major League Baseball’s Playing Rules Committee has adopted a number of slight changes to the language of the Official Baseball Rules that will take effect in the 2008 season.
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Rule 4.05 in Official Baseball rules now requires that a coach, until being passed by a batted ball, must position himself no closer to home plate than the front edge of the coach’s box and no closer to fair territory than the edge of the coach’s box closest to the field.<o:p></o:p>
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Major League’s General Managers also adopted a new coaches helmet rule, which mandates all coaches “on the lines” shall wear a protective helmet.
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The American Legion uses Official Baseball Rules authorized by the Commissioner of Baseball; therefore American Legion coaches shall be mandated to observe the new coaching box rules as well as wearing a protective helmet. Coaches may wear a no-flap; a single flap or a double flap helmet. The type of helmet shall be a personal choice of the coach. MLB will not mandate the type of helmet nor shall The American Legion dictate the type of helmet a coach wishes to wear while in the coaching box.<o:p></o:p>
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These rule changed do not appear in the 2008 American Legion rules. We did not get this official language until after our 2008 rulebook was printed and distributed. <o:p></o:p>
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Helmet Rule Violations: Umpires are instructed not to put the ball into play and to warn the coach on wearing a protective helmet. If the coach refuses to wear a helmet he shall be ejected from the game.<o:p></o:p>
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Coaching Box Rule Violations: Umpires are instructed to warn the coaches on the rule. Coaches who fail to observe the rules shall be warned. Continued violation may result in the coach being ejected. <o:p></o:p>
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These rules are a result of a minor league baseball coach being killed in 2007. These rules are a safety rule. If coaches are confused as to what type of helmet to wear, we suggest they watch any Major League or Minor League ballgame and follow the lead of the professional coaches “on the lines”.<o:p></o:p>
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Now; where I live, when we play baseball, NONE .. of those rules apply .
Yawn .. .. Creating a photograph is what this thread is about ! :Parents can easily do that from the 'stands'. this is not exhibition museum type quality were after here.
Family memories.. I am really so shocked as to why people are so quick to plaster their copyright notice on thier images.
did you know ?? that is only half the process. the other half is to physically send proof to the office itself. but I really don't see someone stealing these images to mass produce them and make any money.
I am just wondering why ? I see new bees create entry level images and they spend more time creating the fancy name logo and copyright notice than in thinking about the image itself.
As a new bee myself.. the one thing I notice in all forums is the need to point out NEGATIVE comments, find something negative to mention rather than just focus on the positive. EMPHASIS on the positive will lead to much quicker understanding of the Art of Photography ! and just because someone says something negative about an image,.. .. that does not mean it is true.. it is just 'their' opinion. The public's opinion is what counts. Not just one person .
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I have not ever attempted to photograph a baseball game of any sort, but it just does not look like there is an ideal way to do it in most small fields. The bleachers don't usually rise above the fence, so a long telephoto lense won't work, unless you find some gap in the outfield fence through which you can shoot. Go inside, and then you've got to worry about getting hit while trying to get the shot. If you poke 70 - 200 mm lense right up to the fence, maybe the angle will be narrow enough to exclude the fence, but only if you're shooting perpendicular to the fence. I have done that at a football game before, and it works at 200 mm. If you shoot through it at a 45 degree angle, it's not likely to work. At the MLB games, I would think there are a lot of pros who shoot from high positions outside the field, but with little league, there are no such positions available.
Because some people will steal them and enter into contests, or steal them and put them on their MySpace. When you invest time, money, and talent you want it protected.