Cropping question...

jbakerphoto · May 23, 2008

So this week I took some photos of 2 soccer teams lined up before the game when I got home I had to photoshop in some astro turf to make an 8 x 10 work. If I hadnt it would have cut off player. Is there a technique to use when shooting to make sure that You have left enough room to get the popular crops. I know it is a crazy question but any attempts would be greatly appreciated......

jfriend · May 23, 2008

unclejon wrote:

So this week I took some photos of 2 soccer teams lined up before the game when I got home I had to photoshop in some astro turf to make an 8 x 10 work. If I hadnt it would have cut off player. Is there a technique to use when shooting to make sure that You have left enough room to get the popular crops. I know it is a crazy question but any attempts would be greatly appreciated......

You just have to remember that the long side of the image is going to get chopped off a bunch for an 8x10 (by almost 20%). When including bleed/trim and frame borders, you should mentally subtract 15% off each end of the long side (that's a total of 30%) when looking in the viewfinder and make sure you still have room left. 8x10 is the worst one when coming from a 2x3 sensor format so that's the one to keep in mind. It would be cool if someone made a ground glass screen for the popular cameras that actually showed the 8x10 edges as a guideline.

MarkW · May 23, 2008

Some cameras will allow you change the focus screens. There are some screens that have marks for certain crops. Check out http://www.katzeyeoptics.com.

darkdragon · May 23, 2008

MarkW wrote:

Some cameras will allow you change the focus screens. There are some screens that have marks for certain crops. Check out http://www.katzeyeoptics.com.

Those are some great looking screens. but $150?

too rich for my blood. I will just put some masking tape on my LCD and use Live View to check my composition

MarkW · May 23, 2008

Personally I probably wouldn't do it either for the crop marks but I would love the split focus screen like back in my old film shooting days.

Art Scott · May 23, 2008

MarkW wrote:

Personally I probably wouldn't do it either for the crop marks but I would love the split focus screen like back in my old film shooting days.

But having the crop marks just sweetens the deal........You would think that these companies would understand that the pros would wantthe split screen and that we still manual focus a lot.....at least I do and I hate relying on a tiny green or red dot to tell me I am focused.....especially if I am focusing in between focus points with my camera.....

What i used to do was use very thin graphics tape and put a border around my ground glass for my masking for the various sizes and as stated 8x10 is one of the worst.....so if my mask made a good to perfect 4 X 5 then my masking was perfect and should work for any enlargement I needed......I have not done this with digital yet only my film cameras (35mm and med format....of course med format was the easiest as the focus screens were removable)...................

jbakerphoto · May 24, 2008

Thanks everybody for replying. I really do appreciate it. i dont see my self spending 100+ bucks on any gizmos so I guess I will have to learn how to eyeball it by subtracting 15% or so on both sides......

Thanks again.
Jon

Art Scott · May 24, 2008

unclejon wrote:

Thanks everybody for replying. I really do appreciate it. i dont see my self spending 100+ bucks on any gizmos so I guess I will have to learn how to eyeball it by subtracting 15% or so on both sides......

Thanks again.
Jon

We have 2 or 3 graphics arts companies here in wichita and they all sell that really thin graphics tape...by thin I mean narrow like 1/32" split a piece of that and use tweezers to make a mask around your focusing screen....takes a bit of practice but it can help making shooting portraits and weddings a lot less stressful.....the tape will cost around $5 for a small roll.....it is pricy but a roll lasted me over 15yrs and many cameras................

jbakerphoto · May 24, 2008

Art Scott wrote:

We have 2 or 3 graphics arts companies here in wichita and they all sell that really thin graphics tape...by thin I mean narrow like 1/32" split a piece of that and use tweezers to make a mask around your focusing screen....takes a bit of practice but it can help making shooting portraits and weddings a lot less stressful.....the tape will cost around $5 for a small roll.....it is pricy but a roll lasted me over 15yrs and many cameras................

Thanks Art for sticking in there and makeing your point more clear.

I think i get it now. I was just wondering how to get to the focus screen. Got to love the internet. Here is a link on how to take out your focus screen for anybody else out there.

http://www.focusingscreen.com/shipping.php

Here is the xti/xt
http://www.focusingscreen.com/work/400den.htm

It doesnt look too too bad.

ziggy53 · May 25, 2008

unclejon wrote:

Thanks Art for sticking in there and makeing your point more clear.

I think i get it now. I was just wondering how to get to the focus screen. Got to love the internet. Here is a link on how to take out your focus screen for anybody else out there.

http://www.focusingscreen.com/shipping.php

Here is the xti/xt
http://www.focusingscreen.com/work/400den.htm

It doesnt look too too bad.

Be very careful sticking things onto or adapting the viewfinder screen. The exposure systems and/or autofocus can be affected, and usually when it is affected it's not in a good way.

Marking a protector screen on the LCD display is OK.

I usually have an 8" x 10" or 8 1/2" x 11" sheet of paper with me for lot's of different reasons and I just frame it in the viewfinder before a project that needs 8" x 10" crops so I can get a refresher "feel" for where I need to frame the actual shots.

I did have a recent shoot where the group of people plus the background just wouldn't fit an 8" x 10" crop so I supplied 2 "letter boxed" versions to kind of photographically mat the images. The two versions were: letter boxed with black and letter boxed with gray. (The gray was selected to come close to some gray that was already in the background.) The clients were allowed to make their own choice and print whichever version they wanted, or I advised them they could get a custom mat.

Everybody understood and I had no client problems.

jfriend · May 25, 2008

ziggy53 wrote:

Be very careful sticking things onto or adapting the viewfinder screen. The exposure systems and/or autofocus can be affected, and usually when it is affected it's not in a good way.

Here's an article on how to remove/replace the focus screen on some Nikon cameras.

I don't believe the viewfinder screen is in the light path for the meter or auto-focus. I think that dSLRs generally work like this (though some have a prism at the top instead of a mirror):

Zanotti · May 25, 2008

This might be a dumb answer, but you do know that you can print 8X12 on Smugmug? They come out really nice, but it is a bit of a pain to frame.

Z

ziggy53 · May 25, 2008

jfriend wrote:

Here's an article on how to remove/replace the focus screen on some Nikon cameras.

I don't believe the viewfinder screen is in the light path for the meter or auto-focus. I think that dSLRs generally work like this (though some have a prism at the top instead of a mirror):

I don't understand the reason why myself, but if you look at the information provided by some of the third-party viewfinder sceeen vendors:

http://haodascreen.com/CanonDSLR.aspx

Note the: "5. Our screens have the minimal metering effect among all focusing screens!" which implies there is some effect towards exposure.

Katz Eye is a little more direct and informational:

http://www.katzeyeoptics.com/faq--metering--3.html

"Will a Katz Eye™ Focusing Screen Affect My Light Meter?
Whenever one introduces a prism into the light path of the camera, there is always the possibility the camera’s light meter will be affected to some degree. We have done our best to summarize the effects on the page for each camera model, but if you need clarification or more information, please feel free to contact us."

Similarly, something placed on the viewfinder can affect the autofocus if it is reflective. While I don't think the addition of dark markings as a "border" in the viewfinder screen will affect either exposure or autofocus, I felt a warning is indicated.

Art Scott · May 25, 2008

ziggy53 wrote:

Similarly, something placed on the viewfinder can affect the autofocus if it is reflective. While I don't think the addition of dark markings as a "border" in the viewfinder screen will affect either exposure or autofocus, I felt a warning is indicated.

Ziggy53.....I am glad you posed the warning as I forgot to.....

thumb

This will make some of you really CRINGE.....I decided I neded crop lines in my viewfind of one of my Twin Lens cameras....I had neg printing frames (small cardboard frame with a crop hle in the mioddle that you tape the neg to for printing at a pro processor).....took out the viewfinder oplace it under the crop frame and maked my lines with a SHARPIE.....I would not do this with a digital camera...but it worked for that TLR and the next owner took a look and asked how much the custom crop lines cost me:D

jbakerphoto · May 25, 2008

Thanks again everyone. I dont foresee myself trying to operate on it anytime soon. to tell you the truth I dont have the guts to do it. (I didnt have it before yall mentioned the word of warning either).......I was probaly going to ask some people in town if they have ever done it and go from there......

On a lighter note. I was playing with my brothers new power shot today in live view and it grayed out some crop lines for me. Does the 40d do that?

darkdragon · May 25, 2008

unclejon wrote:

Thanks again everyone. I dont foresee myself trying to operate on it anytime soon. to tell you the truth I dont have the guts to do it. (I didnt have it before yall mentioned the word of warning either).......I was probaly going to ask some people in town if they have ever done it and go from there......

On a lighter note. I was playing with my brothers new power shot today in live view and it grayed out some crop lines for me. Does the 40d do that?

Unless i missed something, the 40D LiveView only shows rule of 3rds lines or nothing. I haven't found any setting for showing crop lines.

jbakerphoto · May 25, 2008

darkdragon wrote:

Unless i missed something, the 40D LiveView only shows rule of 3rds lines or nothing. I haven't found any setting for showing crop lines.

Just wondering for future reference!

I am using a xt now so maybe one of the days......

It is sorta wierd that a power shot would have crop lines in live view and they couldnt/wouldnt put that in a 40 d.........

Cropping question...

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