AF settings for indoor soccer?

Rhuarc

I went with a friend of mine to her indoor soccer match last night. She had warned me in advance that the conditions for taking pictures were pretty bad. THe lighting is fairly low, the fields are surrounded by netting, and if you try to use flash through the netting it then shows up on the picture. All I have for shooting this sort of thing is the 70-300 3.5/5.6. This is of course not very fast for this type of shooting. I was getting typical shutter speeds of 1/30 to 1/60 which is not fast enough for an action sport like soccer.

My main question though pertains to what AF settings to use. In my every day shooting I select which focus point I want to use, and I will often use the focus then recompose method. This does not work for this type of shooting. I switched the camera to AI SERVO mode, and that seemed to do better for tracking the players.

I guess my main question comes down to: What are the differences in the 3 focus modes on the Xti, (One Shot, AI Focus, AI Servo) and how should I use these in tandem with either selecting a focus point or allowing the camera to select which focus points to use (by highlighting all the points). Or do the focus points not even matter when you are shooting in AI SERVO?

As you can see, I'm a little lost! LoL, so any explanations anyone can help me out with would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks you! (I'll post some examples of my shots for last night later this evening when I get home from work)

aktse

I mainly shoot ice hockey, but you run into the same problem – low light, fast action, shooting behind netting or dirty glass.

As for the focus modes, it really depends on what you’re trying to do, .e.g tracking people and shooting action shots or just trying to capture people when they’re not moving.

One shot – just that shot
AI Focus – starts in single shot mode but then automatically switches to AI Servo with tracking if the subject starts moving while the shutter release is partially depressed
AI servo is the standard setting for moving subject

For tracking, I recommend using AI servo AF with center point AF.

However, with your 70-300 3.5/5.6, you will most likely not going to happy with the results and I would recommend you changing lens; I would either use your 50 f/1.8 or even your 100 f/2.8 macro. If you stuck with your current lens, I suggest you just focus on a small section on the field and stop tracking people. I think you complaints (without seeing the photos) about focus has more to do with motion blur than focus lock as a result of shutter speeds of 1/60.

This is my standard advice for hockey and most indoor sports:
-- The histogram is your friend
-- Custom White Balance (with WB tool if possible, SpectraSnap is my current choice) every time you move position
-- Find a clean spot in the glass, and if it’s not clean, get your lens as close as to the glass or through the netting
-- AI servo AF
-- ISO 1600, ISO – drop it if you can achieve decent shutter speed
-- AV mode, f/2.8 (or wider)
-- Burst mode
-- Center Point AF
-- Shoot tight (crop tighter)

After the first few shots, I check the histogram and shutter speed and adjust. Switch to manual when you have it dialed in...

And do this again when you change locations because the light changes.

I try to hit around 1/500 depending on the skills of the players for most sports. If you can’t hit that, try for some captures with less action, or go for some motion blur shots. I can handle 1/320 for little kids and need to go up 1/1250 for pros if I want to freeze action.

I hope this helps.

cmason

OK well i have shot outdoor soccer for 2 years with an XT and a 70-200 f4. In bright sunlight, I have had no issues with low iso and high shutter speeds.

However, with focusing, it has been a bit of a battle. I use one shot almost exclusively, and sometimes, use AI Focus. My issue is that the camera is that I can not trust the AF and it is often just plain stupid: it sometimes makes stupid choices for focal point, and it also can not read my mind.

In soccer, you often want to focus on one player. However, many players are moving. Most often the camera chooses a player that is not your son or daughter (cant read my mind). It is likely doing what it is supposed to do, but it isnt doing what I want it to do. I do end up with wonderfully focused shots, but it isnt focused on who I want it to be. In these situtations, I end up with far more keepers by using one shot, center focus, and work hard to keep the focus pt on my subject.

Othertimes, the camera chooses something in the background, even on AI Focus. I am sure there is some reason, perhaps it is the fact that I am panning to track a player, thus the background is moving relative to my subject, but in any case, again, I find One shot more reliable.

I believe the biggest issue with the XT/XTi, and likely the 20/30/40D as well, is that they do not have enough focus pts to really make AI Focus effective. I notice the 40D has a diff pattern that my XT, so it may have a better chance of finding a subject in a focus zone, but boy, 45 focus pts would really make this feature work, if you ask me.

Rhuarc

Thank you both for the suggestions. I should have mentioned before hand that I realize that 90% or higher of the problems I noticed in my shots is due to slow shutter speed. The AF questions stemmed more from a lack of understanding of what each mode was doing than from thinking that was causing my blurry shots.

I will try out some different lenses next time, especially the 100/2.8 Macro. I like the speed of the 50/1.8 but for sports it is just too wide for most of the types of shots I'm looking for.

I do think i will stick with the AI Servo mode. Most of what I was shooting was a particular player as they moved and handled the ball moving up the field. This would be too difficult to keep constantly refocusing manually. Any reason you go with the center point vs auto for the Servo mode? One thing I did notice in Servo mode was that it didn't blink the red lights when focus was locked. Is this because the focus is kind of always changing?

Again, thanks for the help. I'm not sure when I will get a chance to take some more shots in these conditions, but as soon as I do I'll post an update on how it went.

Thanks!

Ann McRae

Hi
I used to s hoot lots of indoor soccer. The league has now forbidden shooting from along side of the field. Occassionally I'll find a ref that will let me shoot from the referees box, which is sweet.
I used the 20d and the 85mmf1.8.
I shot AI Servo, center focus point, f2.0, ISO 1600, 1/640 or higher shutter speed.
Custom white balance

I hope that helps - and I'll pop by with more details.

ann

Rhuarc

Thank you Ann!

I was actually shooting last night from an upper balcony just to the side of the field. I was shooting through netting similar to chain link fence only a net instead. The next time I go I'll try shooting more from the sidelines through the glass using a faster lens of some sort.

In talking to my friend she said nobody really has any problems with pictures being taken. I even did several flash shots, except they really didn't turn out at all due to the netting being in the way. This stuff is when I would really like the 70-200/2.8!

cmason

Rhuarc wrote:

T Any reason you go with the center point vs auto for the Servo mode? One thing I did notice in Servo mode was that it didn't blink the red lights when focus was locked. Is this because the focus is kind of always changing?

In AI Servo, you don't get the choice of which focal pt, the Servo does that depending on which object it detects moving in the field of view the most. For this reason I do not use it with soccer, as there are usually several players in the shot, all moving. One focal pt is not hard at all, the key is to fire off multiple frames. Anyway, try it and see how it turns out: it never works to my satisfaction. I put it in AI Focus, so I get to choose the focal pt. If I miss, often the camera saves me. Many times it makes it worse. If you shoot with a small enough aperature, it won't matter. I like shooting as wide open as possible, to help the players stand out against confusing backgrounds, so for me, sharp focus on the player is important.

Ann McRae

Some examples:
This center is 'well lit' compared to some others that I've shot in.

Exif




More typical lighting.
EXIF

FWIW, I always use AI servo for soccer, and I do pretty well. It is true that if you miss focus on the first shot of a series, you probably won't recover any. But when focus grabs, you will get several great shots.

I've recently upgraded and am now using a 1dMkIIN, and there is such an amazing difference cf the 20d in responsiveness and photo quality.

If you plan on doing lots of indoor sports shooting, look seriously at the 85mmf1.8 and/or the 135mmf2. Both are really versatile, for different sports and for portraiture and other photography as well. f2.8, sadly, is not enough indoors. The players may not complain about flashes yet, but you can be sure you will run into a ref that will.

Show us your results!

ann

evoryware

I shot the NY marathon by mistake with AI Servo center point. The center point is the only one that will grab focus.
If a runner was ever off center point, I either got the runner behind in focus or a fan or whatever was on the center point when I clicked the shutter.
AI Servo with a specific focus point selected will only focus on that selected focus point. Try it panning the camera around your living room while holding the shutter button halfway.

If you use multiple point, then it will track the main subject across all points. I've just shot an airshow with AIServo, multiple point and in 740 pictures, I threw out 6 for lost focus. It missed the first one or two of a series and then grabbed the rest. If I had shot center point I probably would have thrown out 300 shots.
The points are smart enough in AI Servo to track a subject as it moves from one point into another and I consider that a superb keeper rate.

I'm not recommending any particular usage, just clarifying based on results from my XT, XTi, and 40D.

evoryware

just to show an extreme example of what will happen if it misses a point and when it falls back into a point. I tossed all my blurry marathon examples. Sorry.

Rhuarc

So the first pic you posted is when the subject falls out of the "selected" point, and then the second is when it comes back under the selected point? I'll have to do some testing the next time I go to see which will work better for me.

Thanks for the help!

evoryware

yep.