Outdoor Wedding Equipment Question

wesscott

Hi,

I have a wedding shoot coming up and it is going to be outdoors. The bride and groom want the ceremony to begin at 3 pm. (Sunset here is around 8 pm or so)

I am shooting with a Nikon D200, 18-200 3.5-5.6 VR, and SB-600 flash. So my question is this: What other equipment should I get to make my photos top quality?

I have heard that light reflectors are good but have never used one.

Any help or pointers? Thanks!:wink

Art Scott

Have you been shooting weddings long?? reason for this question is so we can give the best guidance possible...............


A good flash bracket like a stroboframe RL or a custome bracket QRS-35 or an ALZO BRACKET (very unique design and you can even use a small (20" or so umbrella...cool idea)....these keep the flash centered over the center of the lens in both Landscape and portrait orientation............the above brackets are mid price range professional brackets, a lot of dgrinners swear by RSS and other brands that will cost you $300 and up....I have used the older brother of thestrobo frame RL (mine is an RT) and they are built well.


Also a good light modiefier (softbox) to soften the flash................LumniQuest, Gary Fong, Stofen, Lambency.....there are lots of types...Lambency is a Gary fong look alike and I have heard they work very well....I use a large Lumniquest as that was all that was available locally when i bought mine many years ago.......I have use a childs thin whote sock held to flash head with rubber bands......I have also used Kleenex with a very good degree of success......thre are threads on here about DIY modofers also.

A good TriPod is essential for wedding photography.........a good economy brand Is Giottos.....

MrBook2

Advice from not-a-wedding photographer
Hi. I just got done shooting a friend's outdoor wedding. (I was just shooting for fun, they had a pro there.) I was a beautiful day, mid-afternoon wedding. The pro had a Canon 5D, flash bracket with some canon flash. What he didn't have was an assistant or a reflector. Luckily, he had me and I had a 42 inch collapsable 5-in-1 reflector. Bright afternoon Sun can do terrible things with shadows. Having someone else holding a reflector can help soften those up. (So bring a friend!)

I would also suggest that you get a flash bracket and a diffuser for the SB-600 (like a StoFen Omnibounce 600.) This will get the flash further away from the camera's lens, eliminating red-eye and giving more flattering pictures during the reception (inside? After sunset maybe?) If you can't swing a flash bracket (there are many to choose from and they can cost quite a bit) at least get a diffuser or make yourself a better bounce card (http://www.abetterbouncecard.com/), it can do wonders indoors.


I would also think about getting a Nikon 50mm f1.8 lens. They are barely over $100 new and takes great portraits. (set it to aperture priorty at about an f4 for a good depth of field on subjects with nice backgrounds.)

If you have enough CF cards, consider shooting in raw+jpg mode. That way you have jpgs right away but can use the raws to recover blown highlights if necessary (wedding dresses in sunlight can be killer!)

That is my 2 cents, for what it is worth (about 2 cents, I figure... ) Hope it helps.

--Aaron

Scott_Quier

I've already written up my best advice - check'em out (link is in my siggy)

Blurmore

Reflectors are great, but you really need an assistant to operate one. You can stand mount a reflector, but unless you have a 20 lb sand bag under it, even a small gust will blow it over. Reflector use is awesome for working on the fringe of shade. So the sun is giving you a hair light, but the face is in shadow, then the reflector is used to puke the light back up on the face. Alone it gives a very dramatic effect and soft modeling, with the addition of flash it makes a very nice effect.


Batteries.

Make sure you have a LOT of them or better yet an external battery pack, such as those made by quantum. I use a Canon CP-E3 which I love because it is lightweight, uses AA's and goes a whole wedding without a change on new Ni-MH. Shooting outside against a backlight actually kills your batteries faster than shooting in a dark area like a church, because you are shooting at a lower ISO and at almost full power on each shot.

Bracket/Diffuser.

I don't use a bracket. I used to use a bracket. I used to swear by a bracket. This was when I was shooting with a Hasselblad, if you are shooting a wedding with a Hasselblad....a bracket is essential. With a DSLR, not so much. Pay the extra money for a decent diffuser, I use a Gary Fong Whale Tail. Yeah you can make one, but you'll end up with a diffuser that looks like you made it, and is totally worthless in a vertical orientation. Yeah I know there are a legion of rabid foaming BBC users (probably related to the same people that brew their own GNU cola) and a bounce card is great for newspaper photography. However it has a few very bad drawbacks, it is inefficent, and indoors bouncing off a ceiling it give very unattractive racoon eyes. The GF Whale Tail is the most versatile diffuser I've ever encountered if you "foof" you'll love it.


Without a second flash I wouldn't recommend doing a lot of shots in full shade. I'd say you more want to go with putting the sun at their backs (so they don't squint) and filling their faces . Learn to use both the Flash Exposure Lock function of your camera, and the High Speed Sync Function of your flash. the FEL will come in hand when shooting against a sunset, you can meter for the sunset, then recompose and FEL on the subject. The
HSS will come in handy when shooting in AV, allowing you to take flash pictures above your normal X sync speed.


If you have the money to get a second TTL flash and can mount it on a lightstand I'd recommend it, if not have fun make sure you have your exposure BEFORE you start with the couple, and shoot raw.

wesscott

Thanks for the help everyone!
Yeah, I have never shot a wedding before. I am shooting with a buddy that has shot a handful of weddings. I got my D200 about 6 months ago. So, I know most of the features (I learned a lot of kenrockwell.com!!) however I am not really clear on Flash lock. Why is it used and what is the problem that it overcomes? Also, I have never used a grey card before. Is that something I need to use?

Otherwise, I am purchasing a 50mm 1.8 lens. What a great deal for only about $100!!!!! It will get a lot of use because I also will be shooting a lot of plays and concerts soon. Great Recomendation! I already have a tripod so I am also picking up a monopod, 2 extra DSLR batteries, several sets of extra flash batteries, and 42in reflector.

I am still debating on the stroboframe though. I often use pop up flash with the sb600 in command mode. I am very pleased with the results I have got from that. However I can still see utility in it so I will pick one up eventually.

Thanks SO MUCH for the help EVERYONE!

Blurmore

Here is why and how you use FEL...flash exposure lock. Many photographers (myself included) like to pose people in deep shade. No worries about mottled light on the face, no worries about funky shadows, you are exposing the foreground with flash and burning the background with ambient. I use a hand held meter to meter the FULL sun. So the exposure is lets say 1/500th at f8 at 100 ISO. The shade exposure is probably 1/60th at f8 at 100 ISO if you shot at 1/60th youd have a cold foreground with a blown out background. So you shoot at say 1/750 or 1/1000 at f5.6 or f8 BUT here is the hang up, even in manual the camera will not pick the correct flash exposure to fill the foreground. It exposes for the brightest area, the background. This is where FEL comes in. You FEL or pre-flash a neutral area of the subjects, say the guys vests or their faces if you have spot or center weighted metering. Now the flash knows it needs to kick hard to overcome a strong backlight. BTW this is also where HSS comes in handy because while the D200 I believe X syncs at 1/500 I know it will not x-sync at 1/750 or 1/1000. Having second TTL strobe or even a non TTL handle flash helps to open up the shadows even further allowing properly exposed foreground in full shade, and properly exposed backgroun in full sun.

Shooting a grey card is a good way of computing accurate white balance. But using a white collar and tweaking works almost as good. Flash has almost the same color temperature as full sun 5000 degrees kelvin. The problem arises when you are shooting in the shade (cool) ambient and the background is in full sun (warm). Or you are shooting with flash in the early everning when the sunlight is warmer than the flash. Basically if your flash temp and ambient temp are not closely matched there will be false color somewhere either in the background or on the subjects. You can overcome this by using a phoxle or similar filter on your flash to better modify the flash temp to the ambient temp.

wesscott

Sweet!
Oh, I see exactly why that is important now! Thanks for the explaination!

I think I want to invest in another SB-600 now lol.:D

MrBook2

Blurmore wrote:

BTW this is also where HSS comes in handy because while the D200 I believe X syncs at 1/500 I know it will not x-sync at 1/750 or 1/1000. Having second TTL strobe or even a non TTL handle flash helps to open up the shadows even further allowing properly exposed foreground in full shade, and properly exposed backgroun in full sun.

I completely forgot to say something about the high speed sync! Very important to turn that on in the menu.

cmorganphotography

Lens
I'm hearing so many good things about the 50mm lens. I just did my first wedding shoot and it started out overcast with great light. Then the sun came out so we headed between the buildings. Nice concrete reflection, right? Then some clouds came out and I had racoon eyes all over the place. I had my reflector with me and I had a buddy, but I didn't use fill flash or the reflector.

Is it just a good rule of thumb to use a reflector or fill flash when outside always? Does it create or deplete post production work.

Third, why is everyone so giddy over that lens? I have an 18-55mm zoom and it's not great and I'm thinking about picking up the 50mm. Some pros vs cons would be nice.

Thanks for helping a n00b out.

MrBook2

I think we are all giddy for it because it is a great amount of bang for the buck. It is just over $100 new, it is fast (f1.8) and pretty sharp. Now, like all lenses it is a little soft wide open, but when wide open means f1.8, you can stop down a bit and still be fast (like f4 is nice.)

Is it a perfect lens? No. But it is a good fast lens at a great price. I think it is the best value for a Nikon shooter, and if you have a Nikon body that focus old AF lenses (with the screw, so D40 and D60 need not listen to this) you owe it to yourself to get one of these. They take great portraits and are good in poor lighting. Again, don't bother shooting much at f1.8 if you can help it. Will you use it every time you go out shooting? Not likely, but you will be very happy when you do.

--Aaron

wesscott

cmorganphotography wrote:

Third, why is everyone so giddy over that lens? I have an 18-55mm zoom and it's not great and I'm thinking about picking up the 50mm. Some pros vs cons would be nice.

Thanks for helping a n00b out.

I can only speak for myself here but this is why I think there is tremendous value in that the 50mm 1.8 Nikon lens.

It's super sharp, fast, and cheap. It's small and light... so it's not cumbersome. It has great bokeh which is nice. Good for low light situations. Overall, it has a ton of utility and it costs very little. A smart buy if you ask me.

The only negative things that I have heard are that the casing is cheap and it has no zoom. However, it only costs $100 so if it breaks just get a new one. And just move around with your shots to work around the lack of zoom. No big deal. Oh, and apparently it doesn't AF on the D40. I don't know about other camera bodies that have the same issue.

To get great reviews on lenses check out:
www.kenrockwell.com

Art Scott

My answers will be in side your quoted message using bolded italics for answers........:D

cmorganphotography wrote:

I'm hearing so many good things about the 50mm lens. I just did my first wedding shoot and it started out overcast with great light. Then the sun came out so we headed between the buildings. Nice concrete reflection, right? Then some clouds came out and I had racoon eyes all over the place. I had my reflector with me and I had a buddy, but I didn't use fill flash or the reflector.

Is it just a good rule of thumb to use a reflector or fill flash when outside always? Does it create or deplete post production work.

In years past I never used a reflector......but shot damn near everything with fill flash.....it shouuld depleat post somewhat.....REMEBER TO SHOOT RAW NO MATTER WHAT.........

Third, why is everyone so giddy over that lens? I have an 18-55mm zoom and it's not great and I'm thinking about picking up the 50mm. Some pros vs cons would be nice.

dUNNO....I am a 2 lens...ZOOM....kinda guy....I loves my 24-70 and 70-210 f2.8.....will be tradeing the 24-70 for a 17-70 until I get a FF cam....then the 24 should be wide enuff for most of my needs..................MAYBE


Thanks for helping a n00b out.

cmorganphotography

Answers!!
Quick answers! Thank you! It was going to be my next lens but i had reservations. I didn't even think about the weight factor, that's pretty nice. Thanks to all three of you, you offered something different and helpful each. I was worried about it being cheap but I didn't even think of bokeh. Tennis shoe zoom doesn't bother me, I tend to do that anyway.
I've been dissatisfied with my raccoon eyes showing up whenever they feel like it so I think I will take a low setting on my flash and force it when outdoors and pretty much with my lens you either use the flash or you don't get pictures unless you bump up the ISO over 800 or 1,000 and then the pics are grainy. So, a lot more f stop means lower light and happier me! Yay! Thanks again!

wesscott

Fruits of my labor
Hey guys thanks for all the advice! I just finished my first wedding so I thought I would show you all the results and hear what you think. I used that Nikon 50mm 1.8 for a majority of the wedding and am VERY pleased with the results I got.

Thanks Again!:D

pathfinder

cmorganphotography wrote:

Is it just a good rule of thumb to use a reflector or fill flash when outside always? Does it create or deplete post production work.

Third, why is everyone so giddy over that lens? I have an 18-55mm zoom and it's not great and I'm thinking about picking up the 50mm. Some pros vs cons would be nice.

Thanks for helping a n00b out.

The use of fill flash in full sunlight, or in the shade, or even with the subject backlit, is one of those tricks that really make images pop, and separate those who can, from those who can't.

One way is to shoot in ETTL with the camera in Manual Mode, where you set the aperture and shutter speed. This lets you set the correct exposure for the ambient lit background as bright or as dark as you wish, WHILE you expose the subject with flash correctly in the forground. Think of a stage production with a spotlight on the star, and the background illuminated as desired by the director to augment the scene.

If you decide to use flash in Manual Mode in full sunlight, you may find that you cannot set your shutter speed high enough, because the native flash synch speed is around 1/200th or so for most DSLRs. You may have to switch your flash to High Speed Synch (Canon) or Focal Plane or some such to enable the higher shutter speeds needed in bright sunlight to prevent overexposure. Instead of one brief flash, the flash emits a series of flashes over about 1/5th of a second so that the narrow slit of the focal plane shutter is illuminated as it passes across the sensor.

Here is a link about Canon Fill flash triggered by an ST-E2

Here is a demonstration of what can be done with flash outdoors in bright sunlight in New Zealand

cmorganphotography

pathfinder wrote:

The use of fill flash in full sunlight, or in the shade, or even with the subject backlit, is one of those tricks that really make images pop, and separate those who can, from those who can't.

One way is to shoot in ETTL with the camera in Manual Mode, where you set the aperture and shutter speed. This lets you set the correct exposure for the ambient lit background as bright or as dark as you wish, WHILE you expose the subject with flash correctly in the forground. Think of a stage production with a spotlight on the star, and the background illuminated as desired by the director to augment the scene.

If you decide to use flash in Manual Mode in full sunlight, you may find that you cannot set your shutter speed high enough, because the native flash synch speed is around 1/200th or so for most DSLRs. You may have to switch your flash to High Speed Synch (Canon) or Focal Plane or some such to enable the higher shutter speeds needed in bright sunlight to prevent overexposure. Instead of one brief flash, the flash emits a series of flashes over about 1/5th of a second so that the narrow slit of the focal plane shutter is illuminated as it passes across the sensor.

Here is a link about Canon Fill flash triggered by an ST-E2

Here is a demonstration of what can be done with flash outdoors in bright sunlight in New Zealand

I have a nikon d80. There are 4 flash settings as far as I can tell. I'll have to play more when I get together with a model next.

Davidoff

With the D80 you'll need either a Sb-600 or a Sb-800 to use high speed synch, or focal plane synch I think. Which flahes do you have?

cmorganphotography

Davidoff wrote:

With the D80 you'll need either a Sb-600 or a Sb-800 to use high speed synch, or focal plane synch I think. Which flahes do you have?

just on camera

Davidoff

Does any of the flash modes read " High FP Sync " or something like that ? If it doesn't, I guess you're limited to 1/250 without an external flash.

pathfinder

The single biggest limitation of built in camera flash is precisely that it is built in. Really handy only for fill flash at times. Many built ins do not support High Speed Synch - check your manual for this info.

I am sure the SB-600 and SB-800 as well as the 580 ex and 580exII and the 430ex all support High Speed synch.

Davidoff

pathfinder wrote:

The single biggest limitation of built in camera flash is precisely that it is built in. Really handy only for fill flash at times. Many built ins do not support High Speed Synch - check your manual for this info.

I am sure the SB-600 and SB-800 as well as the 580 ex and 580exII and the 430ex all support High Speed synch.

Yep, they do. Not with the D70, but with the D80, they do. At least the 800, but I think the 600 should too. If you want to get into flash photography, don't stall and buy an sb-800 (or two)

wesscott

Sb600 Ftw
I dunno about the SB800 over the SB600. Sure, the 800 has a little more power I'll give you that. However, the recycle times are way faster for the SB600, most of the time it will do the job, and it's cheaper. The 800 is slower, costs more, and really just has a bunch of extra flash modes that have llittle or no utility for many photographers. The SB800 is all just Nikon marketing to get you to spend more money.

Save some cash get the 600 and if you need more get another 600 and run in command mode.

But don't take my word for it. This review is very informative about the 600/800 comparison.
http://kenrockwell.com/nikon/sb600vs800.htm

LensCap

wesscott wrote:

I dunno about the SB800 over the SB600. Sure, the 800 has a little more power I'll give you that. However, the recycle times are way faster for the SB600, most of the time it will do the job, and it's cheaper. The 800 is slower, costs more, and really just has a bunch of extra flash modes that have llittle or no utility for many photographers. The SB800 is all just Nikon marketing to get you to spend more money.

Save some cash get the 600 and if you need more get another 600 and run in command mode.

But don't take my word for it. This review is very informative about the 600/800 comparison.
http://kenrockwell.com/nikon/sb600vs800.htm

Well I hate to but I'm jumping in...I have both 600's and 800's and find myself using the 800's the majority of the time for one reason or the other. One of the major factors is the slightly higher GN, once you snap a diffuser on either of the flashes you lose a bunch and the 800 simply works better. Also works better outside for the same reason for fill flash, just shot a large outdoor picnic ant the 800's were great. The recycle time is not an issue, in TTL mode they recycle before you think about taking another shot. You also can control more groups with the 800 as a master vs. using the commander in the camera. Mainly use the 600's for extras now...if I had to do it all over again I would start with one 800 and then if $$$ was an issue go with more 600's as finances allowed. Just my 2 cents, thought I'd share

Davidoff

LensCap wrote:

Well I hate to but I'm jumping in...I have both 600's and 800's and find myself using the 800's the majority of the time for one reason or the other. One of the major factors is the slightly higher GN, once you snap a diffuser on either of the flashes you lose a bunch and the 800 simply works better. Also works better outside for the same reason for fill flash, just shot a large outdoor picnic ant the 800's were great. The recycle time is not an issue, in TTL mode they recycle before you think about taking another shot. You also can control more groups with the 800 as a master vs. using the commander in the camera. Mainly use the 600's for extras now...if I had to do it all over again I would start with one 800 and then if $$$ was an issue go with more 600's as finances allowed. Just my 2 cents, thought I'd share

Absolutely, the 800 isn's just more marketing. Recycle times are the same from what I read, but if that's critical, with the 800 you can attach a fifth battery. More power. The 600, contrary to what you're saying, can not be used on camera as a master, the 800 can, can control several groups, and has more reach than the pop up flash when commanding. The SB-800 has a dedicated sync port if you want to use PW's, tilts down below 0º and has the extremely useful built in slave. Also comes with more acessories I think.

LensCap

Davidoff wrote:

Absolutely, the 800 isn's just more marketing. Recycle times are the same from what I read, but if that's critical, with the 800 you can attach a fifth battery. More power. The 600, contrary to what you're saying, can not be used on camera as a master, the 800 can, can control several groups, and has more reach than the pop up flash when commanding. The SB-800 has a dedicated sync port if you want to use PW's, tilts down below 0º and has the extremely useful built in slave. Also comes with more acessories I think.

Yep what he said! You can control 1 or maybe 2 more groups (3 groups plus the master unit when using the 800). I always run the 5th battery, the slide-out white card gets used more than you think it would, and the 800 comes with the diffuser. I'm triggering with Radio Poppers now, golly those will change the way you shoot!

wesscott

You both raise good points! Utility varies depending on the application.