Nikon Body Question - D80 or D300

TexPhotog

Ok, so the school that I am going to (it shall remain nameless) has a digital photography kit that includes the new Canon XSi as the camera that students should use.

I've been shooting Nikon since 2005 and I am not about to switch brands just because the school’s kit uses Canon. I don't have much as far as gear, I shoot with a D50, 18-55 and 55-200 lenses and the sb600 flash. Again, not much, but it is already an investment in a particular brand, a brand that I am happy with. And, even though by today's standards my gear is really old, it does the job.

Since the school’s kit comes with the Canon XSi, I am looking for something similar in the Nikon family.

What would be YOUR recommendations…? :scratch :scratch :scratch

D80 or D300. Money is a big, huge object, but since it is for school, and eventually work, I am willing to make a sacrifice.

And yes, I will be fighting with the school about the kit and their choice of Canon. Not because I don’t like Canon, but like I stated before, I’ve already invested $$$ on Nikon.

MrBook2

I can't speak for how things will go with the school, but if you can manage it, get the D300 over the D80. I don't have one myself (I shoot a D200 at present) but I have heard great things about it. I hope to upgrade to one myself later this year.

If you are looking to have the body for the long haul, go for the D300. But you might want to talk to the school beforehand, just to be safe.

--Aaron

TexPhotog

MrBook2 wrote:

If you are looking to have the body for the long haul, go for the D300. But you might want to talk to the school beforehand, just to be safe.
--Aaron

Yeah... I'm leaning to the D300...

As for the school, they are going to schedule a meeting between me, the dean of students, department chair and their photography advisory committee to talk to me about it.

So hopefully that will come out in my favor... I mean, if they are bundling up the Canon camera, I'm sure they'll be able to get a deal on a Nikon
body(ies) from their supplier.

jonh68

Is the school making you upgrade? With the lenses you have, you would be better off upgrading the lens instead of the camera.

Is this for a class? Personally, I wouldn't spend the money on a new camera or money for the classes if they had requirements like this.

Another thing to consider about your gear is if you go into photography as work, like in getting paid, you are going to be upgrading pretty much your entire Nikon setup anyway so I wouldn't think of the investment you have in Nikon at the moment as something for the future. Your purchases NOW, if you know this is going to be work are.

With that said, you would be better off getting a 80-200 f 2.8 and some pro glass in the 17-55 f 2.8 range than spend money on either a D80 or D300. When you can afford those, you will then have the glass. Your pictures with a D50 and better glass will look better than the D300 with your current glass. If the instructors at the school don't know this, take your money somewhere else.

MJRPHOTO

Tex,
If you are going to do the body go for the D300.
As John said It might be better to invest in the glass first.
Unless you are going to upgade to the D3. Than there is an incredible increase in quality. I Have just upgraded to the D3 from the D300 and will not go back. I have (2) D300's at this time. I am looking to sell one that has about 2500 clicks. It was purchased 3 months ago as a backup and was used for (3) lax games just to make sure it was a good copy. Since purchasing the D3 there is no need for me to keep the D300's. If you decide to get a D300 make me an offer on mine and I will let you know what I am willing to sell it for. It has all items in the original box. My other D300 has about 14000 clicks and will also be up for sale once I sell the backup. I will be purchasing another D3 when these are sold.

silverbrumby0

D300
Go for the D300 my friend. If you need extra info try this site, you can check both bodies side by side.
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/sidebyside.asp

The other advantage later is if you upgrade to a D3 they also take CF cards.

But as one of the other answers said, 1 high quality lens will beat 2 average lenses any day. Your work will be reflected by the equipment you are using.

Good luck with school!

Tee Why

Sensor/IQ wise, the XSi has a 12MP APS-C sized CMOS sensor. So does the Nikon D300.

So I'd go for that. The D80 has a 10MP CCD sensor IIRC and tends to be noisier at higher ISO's than the CMOS sensors IMO.

Of course the D300 is about $1000 more than the XSi but it also has a lot more performance, robustness, and features.

Personally, I think your current gear is ok for now. But then again, if this is a degree in photography, then maybe you do need to upgrade.

NikonsandVstroms

it makes sense why they are doing this, even though I too disagree with their choice of cameras:D. The issue is, if you're teaching a bunch of people who don't know much aboutDigital photography, it's easier if everyone has the same system so you can say go under this menu and change this setting. it would basically be the digital equivalent of all we did with film, talking about different tricks that you can do during processing, cross processing, pulling, pushing.... andwith digital if everyone had different types of cameras this would be a huge headache for any professor because of all the different menus and systems

They also might have an assortment of Canon lenses to loan you, which is another reason for the standardization.

but does it really matter? It all depends on what type of program you are in, is this commercial or fine art,what types of printers do you have access to. in all honesty you can complete basically any photography course with just the D50 it's just up to the school/program if they will allow it.

SloYerRoll

D300
Period.

TexPhotog

Wow...

NikonsandVstroms wrote:

it makes sense why they are doing this, even though I too disagree with their choice of cameras:D. The issue is, if you're teaching a bunch of people who don't know much aboutDigital photography, it's easier if everyone has the same system so you can say go under this menu and change this setting. it would basically be the digital equivalent of all we did with film, talking about different tricks that you can do during processing, cross processing, pulling, pushing.... andwith digital if everyone had different types of cameras this would be a huge headache for any professor because of all the different menus and systems

They also might have an assortment of Canon lenses to loan you, which is another reason for the standardization.

but does it really matter? It all depends on what type of program you are in, is this commercial or fine art,what types of printers do you have access to. in all honesty you can complete basically any photography course with just the D50 it's just up to the school/program if they will allow it.

I hadn't thought of it that way...

As for my trusty old D50, I do love my camera... the main part of the problem with the school is not so much the camera (as I've always been taught that it's not the gear, but the monkey behind it that makes the photo - and please, don't take offese at the "monkey"), it's the part that they sell the complete "digital photography kit" which also includes other equipment, such as a Sekonic L758DR light meter - something that I would not be able to afford on my own, but I could if I get the kit.

As far as the program, it is a BS in Digital Photography, with a minor in Digital Video/Audio Production

Thanks for your input...

NikonsandVstroms

TexPhotog wrote:

I hadn't thought of it that way...

As for my trusty old D50, I do love my camera... the main part of the problem with the school is not so much the camera (as I've always been taught that it's not the gear, but the monkey behind it that makes the photo - and please, don't take offese at the "monkey"), it's the part that they sell the complete "digital photography kit" which also includes other equipment, such as a Sekonic L758DR light meter - something that I would not be able to afford on my own, but I could if I get the kit.

As far as the program, it is a BS in Digital Photography, with a minor in Digital Video/Audio Production

Thanks for your input...

that's important part of the details that were left out, how much is the kit? And what does it include?

TexPhotog

NikonsandVstroms wrote:

that's important part of the details that were left out, how much is the kit? And what does it include?

I'll have to get back as to what the kit includes... I have that paperwork at home...

NikonsandVstroms

No problem, I've also never heard of a BS in photography I wonder how it differs from a BA, and then of course there is the BFA, you have to love that year of foundation courses :bash

jeffmeyers

I upgraded to a D300 from a D80. I liked the D80. I LOVE the D300.

TexPhotog

NikonsandVstroms wrote:

No problem, I've also never heard of a BS in photography I wonder how it differs from a BA, and then of course there is the BFA, you have to love that year of foundation courses :bash

DIGITAL PHOTOGRAPHY
Bachelor of Science

The Digital Photography program teaches you composition, lighting, and equipment use. Photography techniques, color, and design are explored both on location and in a studio. You’ll develop business skills as you fine-tune your eye for detail. Graduates are prepared to seek entry-level employment such as commercial photographer, industrial photographer, photo lab technician, or photojournalist.

Typical Course Sequence
Digital Photography
Bachelor of Science
192 credits (36 months if 16 credits per quarter)

Core Courses
PHG110 Principles of Photography
PHG120 Lighting
PHG130 Survey of Photography
PHG140 Large Format Photography
PHG150 Photographic Design
PHG160 History of Photography I
PHG220 Advanced Lighting
PHG230 Editorial Photography
PHG240 Photo Criticism
PHG260 Business of Photography
PHG310 Advertising/Art Direction
PHG320 History of Photography II
PHG330 Studio Photography
PHG340 Location Photography
PHG350 Portraiture Photography
PHG360 Marketing and Promotions
PHG370 Photo Essay I
PHG380 Photojournalism
PHG390 Creative Concepts
PHG 410 Corporate/Industrial Photography
PHG420 Fashion Photography
PHG430 Photo Essay II
PHG440 Architectural Photography
PHG450 Exhibition Printing
PHG470 Business Operations and Management

GD121 Design Layout
GD202 Electronic Design
GD211 Digital Illustration
GD223 Digital Prepress
GD411 Advanced Digital Imaging
GD413 Digital Portfolio

DMP131 Introduction to Video

IMD201 Web Authoring
IMD211 Desktop Video

RS111 Business Law
RS121 Fundamentals of Marketing
RS200 Career Development
RS201 Portfolio Preparation
RS202 Portfolio Presentation

FS100 Computer Literacy
FS101 Drawing & Perspective
FS102 Fundamentals of Design
FS103 Color Theory
FS107 Digital Imaging

Elective – 9 credits
Electives may be taken from any program.
Students must meet the prerequisites for the elected courses.

General Education
GE105 College Algebra
GE110 English Composition
GE201 Historical & Political Issues
Elective General Education Courses – 36 credits
(Any 9 General Education Courses numbered 100 or higher)

jonh68

That looks expensive. Only you can determine if it's worth it, but photography is one of those fields you can learn on your own. To me, that degree looks like it will help you teach photography, but not make a living with photography.

I bought a camera, bought books, studied tips online, and took lots of pictures. I submitted pictures to the local paper and now I work and freelancing for two papers. I am getting a better education in photojournalism than I would in school. If you are serious about photography, I would spend the money on a great paying degree and use the big money you make on getting great camera gear. You would have a backup career plan if you get a USEFUL degree and then try to pursue photography.

Unless you have a guaranteed job out of this, or tuition is really low, you are going to be investing lots of time and money into something with low returns. I am not trying to rain on your parade, but I wish someone would have told me stuff like this while I was in school. In the end, you are going to be competing in a field that the finished product, ie image, is worth more than a degree.

If you are really serious about pursuing photography, get a useful degree and be the photographer for the school newspaper. Getting published and writing cutlines will impress more than a degree. Take some elective art classes and you will learn about composition, color, and lighting. All the other technical aspects of digital photography can be learned on your own or people on staff at the newspaper.

nightowlcat

I poked around their web site, and something that is sorely lacking from it is who does their accreditation, if it's there, it's hidden really well. Do they run a lot of TV ads to draw students? For $84-85k, if this is the kind of school I think it is, I really hope they have good accreditation that should you decide to transfer to another school, is transferable without too many problems. Check to see what some other local colleges and universities in the area have for accreditation, like the state university system, and see if it's the same as the school you are thinking of attending, I have a feeling it's not.

NikonsandVstroms

jonh68 wrote:

That looks expensive. Only you can determine if it's worth it, but photography is one of those fields you can learn on your own. To me, that degree looks like it will help you teach photography, but not make a living with photography.

I bought a camera, bought books, studied tips online, and took lots of pictures. I submitted pictures to the local paper and now I working and freelancing for two papers. I am getting a better education in photojournalism than I would in school. If you are serious about photography, I would spend the money on a great paying degree and use the big money you make on getting great camera gear. You would have a backup career plan if you get a USEFUL degree and then try to pursue photography.

Unless you have a guaranteed job out of this, or tuition is really low, you are going to be investing lots of time and money into something with low returns. I am not trying to rain on your parade, but I wish someone would have told me stuff like this while I was in school. In the end, you are going to be competing in a field that the finished product, ie image, is worth more than a degree.

If you are really serious about pursuing photography, get a useful degree and be the photographer for the school newspaper. Getting published and writing cutlines will impress more than a degree. Take some elective art classes and you will learn about composition, color, and lighting. All the other technical aspects of digital photography can be learned on your own or people on staff at the newspaper.

That's a good point, it sounds like his is more of a technical program. At first I was shocked when I read all those classes, but it makes sense now that I think about it if my theory is correct about the setup. Pretty much all of those photo classes are covered in our photo 1, photo 2, and pro photo, but are in two to three week blocks, then we have photo 3 which is the course where you're supposed to dive headfirst into the type of photography you want to do. So we basically just get a taste of everything and see what we like, while your setup seems like it's designed to keep you a lot more in depth training/ practice for the techniques making you proficient for any type of job

I would agree about taking some foundation classes, they suck but they help you to develop as an artist. You get those few ah ha moments that teach you something important that will always be there.

But the most important thing is to meet the professors. I've been extremely lucky with ones who are extremely knowledgeable, and willing to help (to the point where one lent me his camera for a month so I could finish a project while mine was being fixed by Nikon) and ask a few current students about their opinions of them.... is the school listed on rate my professor?

TexPhotog

Ok... I found the list...

TexPhotog wrote:

I'll have to get back as to what the kit includes... I have that paperwork at home...

So for all of you wonderful people that have been giving me input on this, I found the list of what the kit includes.

Now, take into consideration that this is what the kit included last year, so it is not up to date because classes start next month, so some of the items may/will change..

Art Storage Box - double layer
Brush, #2 - Watercolor
Brush, #8 - Watercolor
Canson Paper, 12"x12", 25pk, grey tones
Canson Paper, 12"x12", 25pk, warm tones
Color Wheel
Compass
Drafting Brush, 14"
Eraser, kneaded
Flash Drive, 512MB
IPOD, Apple 80GB
Marker, blender
Marker, China peel off, black
Marker, China peel off, white
Marker Pad, 14"x17"
Per, Sharpie, ultrafine
Pencil Set, Colored 24pc
Pigment Liner set, 4pc
Rubber Cement
Scissors
Sharpener w/canister
Sketchbook, sprial, 11"x14"
Trangle 45/90
Wheeled Portfolio, 20"X28" with pouch
Xacto Knife w/blades
Marker Set, Primary and Secondary, 12pc
Marker Set, Warm Greys, 12pc
Newsprint Pad, 18"x24"
Paint Pallet, butcher tray, 11"x15"
Paint Set, Gouache, 5pc
Pencil, non photo blue (2)
Pencils, sketch, HB, 2B, 3B, 4B, 6B, 2H
Sketch Pad, 18"x24"
Sketchbook, spiral 5"x7"
T-Square, metal, 30"
Camera Bag
Canon Digital Rebel XSi with software and lens
Compact Flash Card, 512MB
Compact Flash Card Reader
Illford Smooth Pearl, Inkjet paper, 100 sheets
Mamiya Sekonick 558 Light Meeter

Price - $2520

What do you guys think???

NikonsandVstroms

Getting all of those art supplies is a huge pain in the butt to get, but I haven't been shopping for them in the past three years so I'm not sure how the prices fair. A few things I noticed included the 512 MB flash drive, which costs about two dollars. And it's weird, they give you an iPod

But the weirdest thing of all of this is last year. Why do they have the Canon XSI listed that camera just came out. And not only that they have CompactFlash cards listed (only 512 MB too another five dollars) but that camera takes SD cards

TexPhotog

NikonsandVstroms wrote:

Getting all of those art supplies is a huge pain in the butt to get, but I haven't been shopping for them in the past three years so I'm not sure how the prices fair. A few things I noticed included the 512 MB flash drive, which costs about two dollars. And it's weird, they give you an iPod

But the weirdest thing of all of this is last year. Why do they have the Canon XSI listed that camera just came out. And not only that they have CompactFlash cards listed (only 512 MB too another five dollars) but that camera takes SD cards

Well... as far as the flash drive, I was told that's for homework to be able to move it around diff. pc/macs in the labs

The IPOD I'm really fighting because their reasoning is that it gets used as an external storage device for large assingment files, i.e. shooting lots and lots of photos for classes. I have a couple of portable hard drives that I can use.

The XSi was just a typo... the list for 2007 has the XTi... which does use CF for storage.

This year they'll be using the XSi... which is why I wanted to get input form the Grin as far as something comparable to it (D80 v D300), since I already use my "I love to death" trusty Nikon D50, I already have Nikon glass and my SB600...

I like Nikon and will eventually be buying more "gooder" Nikon glass as my budget and work permits.