Baseball Shots: Do you need the ball?

darkdragon

So, I went out again to shoot some high-noon baseball action. As always my shots came out a bit soft and a bit grainy (it's definately me because the lens is very sharp normally)

Anyhow...I was trying to do some vertical shots (which is very tough on a monopod, btw) because baseball shots from amateurs like me always seem to be horizontals and I was bored. The point is, the shot below I like the composition for the most part but the ball is right there on the edge of the frame, about 3/4 inside the image but 1/4 of the ball is missing. This is not a crop mistake, that's just the way it happened.

The question I have is do you need to see the ball in a batter image like this? Also, does having the ball partway in/out of the frame totally kill the image?

Thanks for any input.

Frog Lady

I don't think, IMHO, that it is as necessary to get the ball in all shots in baseball. The stance, action and face can tell much of the story. In the example you posted, I think you could have gone either way. The fact that he is in midswing conveys to the viewer that the ball is coming fast. I also don't have a problem w/ only part of the ball being shown.

What I think hurts this shot most is the fact that his face is essentially completely in shadow, thus it's harder to see his focus on where the ball is coming from.

just my $0.02

C.

jonh68

I would say it depends. For this shot, you may want to consider cropping horizontal and crop to the knees, more like papers and magazines do. That way, the focus becomes more on the face, but you would still have the ball in frame. A little dodging to brighten the face might be good too.

Some may disagree with this, but you don't have to shoot vertical to get vertical crops. If you shoot tight enough, you can have enough data to crop vertical.

donek

In light like this you have to push your exposure .7 to 1 ev. You'll loose a few highlights, but the face is the most important thing here. Your other mistake is shooting at f8. You're using your 70-200 f2.8 I assume. The tightest aperature I'd shoot at is f4. You can go to f2.8 if you want. You want very shallow depth of field and higher shutter speeds to stop the action.

Your focus looks pretty good, but the shutter speed needs to increase. If you're having difficulty with focus switch the way you focus. If you want to be able track moving players, that's fine, just turn off the focus activation on the shutter release. Moving to back button focus will enable you to obtain focus lock on a base and wait for the action to arrive without worrying about the camera hunting when you press the shutter. If you are tracking a moving player, just hold down the focus button with your thumb as you press the shutter release.

Other suggestions would include shooting in RAW so you can bring up the details in the face if you need to. ISO 400 is a good choice.

zack75144

I shoot both vertically and horiz. but to answer your ball question; IMHO you need one of two things, ball in frame or emotion in the face. If you get both then you've really got something.
Timing is everything in sports photography, practice catching the ball as it crosses the plate with a single shot. You'll get the timing down pat.
When shooting batters I use a monopod, focus with one shot setting, then hold steady watching with naked eye for the ball xing the plate taking just one shot.
People argue about how a little motion blur illustrations action, but I prefer to freeze action, so I always shoot wide open with the minimum amount of ISO needed to keep the shutter speeds high enough.
my .02 HTH's

darkdragon

Thank you everyone for your input. I am going to note all these suggestions and do what I can next game.

Yes, I'm shooting with the 70-200 with 2xTC for reach.

I do shoot in RAW and just learned how to use Tone Curve panel in Lightroom. I actually have a greatly improved version of this shot on my laptop but couldnt get it uploaded today. I was able to bring out a lot more detail in the face by adjusting the curves.

Looking forward to the next game, I think my images get better with each game. My timing is fairly decent as far as ball over the plate with one shot (not rapid fire), I do try to do that a lot and I have the reflexes for it (and I used to play softball, so that helps).

Really having a hard time with faces as it seems I can never seem to get actual faces in the frame - they are allways looking down or too far away for a good shot. I do have a few though and the game on Sunday (this shot is from) was the first time I actually ventured into the press area on the field, went out by 3rd base - I like the diferent angles. I might be brave enough for the 1st base box next time, we'll see.

jonh68

If you want more shots of the back of their heads, the 3rb base side is great for that. I see this all the time with parents. If the home team is on the 3rd base side, parents will get in the dugout and shoot from there. Since most infield action takes place towards 1st base, most of the shots are the back of the players head when they make plays. For good face shots, the only players you will get really good ones of are the 1st baseman and a lefty at bat.

For best face shots, sitting down along the 1st base side from behind the catcher to first base is best. If the dugout is actually dug out, you can climb on top of it and still be close to eye level with the players. If you sit behind first base on top of the dugout, you will get infielders looking at you. When the batters are up, you may have to move around some to get a good background.

If you get real close to the fence, the camera will focus past it.

darkdragon

jonh68 wrote:

If you want more shots of the back of their heads, the 3rb base side is great for that. I see this all the time with parents. If the home team is on the 3rd base side, parents will get in the dugout and shoot from there. Since most infield action takes place towards 1st base, most of the shots are the back of the players head when they make plays. For good face shots, the only players you will get really good ones of are the 1st baseman and a lefty at bat.

For best face shots, sitting down along the 1st base side from behind the catcher to first base is best. If the dugout is actually dug out, you can climb on top of it and still be close to eye level with the players. If you sit behind first base on top of the dugout, you will get infielders looking at you. When the batters are up, you may have to move around some to get a good background.

If you get real close to the fence, the camera will focus past it.

Thanks for the tips john. Just to be clear, I'm not at little league - this is a pro game (AAA). I can't sit on the baseline or in the dirt anwhere. I like the third base box (press box at the end of the duggout, just about in line with 3rd base) because I get a better view of 2nd base which is where Most of the action seems to happen in these games. There are also a lot of left-handed batters to shoot (everyone else seems to forget about them), and of course a better angle for the pitcher (IMHO).

I would also like to try the 1st base press box but I am a little worried because the foul balls seem to be drawn to it and I don't want broken gear.

I think that little league games would be a lot simpler because I could get a lot closer to the players without worrying as much and less rules about where I can be, etc. Unfortunately I don't know anyone with kids - so that makes it very tough to go to games - until I get some decent shots to take with me and say "hey, I photo the big guys but would like to work with your team today, is that cool?"


Great idea about sitting on top of the duggout! Next game I go to I plan on some shots from that general area (in the stands behind the top of the duggout). I can only do that if there are no paying customers in the area - which is why I cant get any shots behind home plate. I get "hey, we can't see" and have to move or risk getting booted outta the park.

coskier

As to if the ball is needed, I think it depends on the story you are trying to tell.

This pic kind of says it all:

jonh68

Thanks for the tips john. Just to be clear, I'm not at little league - this is a pro game (AAA)

That does limit your access.

MT Stringer

No ball, but I like the end result.
Mike

beetle8

If it's a ball shot then the ball should be there, here's a test, someone who didn't take the picture wouldn't know where the ball was if not in the frame, so put yourself in that position now does the image still tell a story. If it's a swing like this one and the ball is not there then we don't know the full story. Some won't need it some will. I read an article once that blanket stated "if it's a ball sport then you should probably have a ball in frame.

your other question, well having only 3/4 of the ball in this image hurts it less than having no ball.

bobcool

I agree that having the ball is best, but sometimes a pic without a ball can still tell a story. In this picture below, this young man hit a home run that brought in three runs. I intentionally waited until the end of his swing because I thought his mechanics were good and it might make a nice shot. The ball is on its way over the fence as he watches it fly. His parents loved this shot!

beetle8

related to above picture,
If it was my kid and I was there I would definitely like it too (not that I don't like it cause I do). But had you not told us the story, we could just as easily assume that he just went down swinging

jonh68

beetle8 wrote:

related to above picture,
If it was my kid and I was there I would definitely like it too (not that I don't like it cause I do). But had you not told us the story, we could just as easily assume that he just went down swinging

Maybe, but when a batter strikes out, they usually look at the ground. His eyes tell the story for me. He is tracking a long ball. We wouldn't know if it's a homer, but it had to be a good swing at the ball.

beetle8

What about the guy in the BG looking at him and not watching a monster shot?

bobcool

beetle8 wrote:

What about the guy in the BG looking at him and not watching a monster shot?

Two reasons why the guy in the bg isn't reacting:

1. the kid just hit the ball - this is right at the end of his swing so the ball, by my estimation, is not out of the infield yet, probably just over the pitcher's mound.

2. The guy is a fan for the other team - the kid's team were the visitor team, so their fans are sitting along the third base line.

jonh68

beetle8 wrote:

What about the guy in the BG looking at him and not watching a monster shot?

A tighter crop and it's no problem. I have seen enough shots from good swings and bad swings to know you don't get that kind of concentration from a strike out.

fire1035

jonh68 wrote:

A tighter crop and it's no problem. I have seen enough shots from good swings and bad swings to know you don't get that kind of concentration from a strike out.

I agree. If this were a K the kid would be looking at the catcher NOT the field of play. He would also have some sort of look of dejection on his face.

Now if we were talking about someone who has NEVER seen a baseball game before then I would accept that you might think the kid just struck out.

beetle8

Funny,
I happened to listen to a podcast from lenswork today than hits this same point.
Basically saying that sometimes for an image to reach its fullest potential it may need some text or verbal assistance and there is nothing wrong with that and that if the image requires it than it should be included.
So if a viewer does not have intimate knowledge of the subject of the image than without a description all you are doing is denying the viewer the experience of the image. Unless of coarse the image does not need it or the photographer would like the viewer to make their own story.
Anyway, in my previous posts I was just being argumentative.