Low Light Focusing

PictureThis

Here is a question for you performance shooters. I take a lot of pictures of belly dancer performances. The problem is that the light is often pretty low, and I try to avoid using flash. I have a 2.8 70mm zoom lens and a 1.8 50mm fixed lens, and I ususally set my camera to 80 shutter speed and 1600 ISO. I also try to use spot metering. However, the pictures are not as tack sharp as I would like them to be. Any special focusing tricks to get tack sharp low light dancer images? Thanks.

ziggy53

PictureThis wrote:

Here is a question for you performance shooters. I take a lot of pictures of belly dancer performances. The problem is that the light is often pretty low, and I try to avoid using flash. I have a 2.8 70mm zoom lens and a 1.8 50mm fixed lens, and I ususally set my camera to 80 shutter speed and 1600 ISO. I also try to use spot metering. However, the pictures are not as tack sharp as I would like them to be. Any special focusing tricks to get tack sharp low light dancer images? Thanks.

First PictureThis, welcome to the Digital Grin.

If you are at f1.8 and 1/80th at ISO 1600, I'm afraid you might be doing the best you can do.

While you don't mention the camera model and lens manufacturer, there is not a 50mm, f1.8 that is necessarily that sharp at f1.8 (wide open.) The Canon version in particular looks much better at f2.8 and is sharpest at f5.6. The Nikon starts a little better at f1.8 (IMO) but likewise does its best at f5.6.

While you might need to use f1.8, you will also need to apply some USM to achieve any degree of perceived high sharpness, so just plan on it and know that it's OK and normal.

Also the 1/80th may not be fast enough to stop motion as some of the dances require a fair amount of motion.

If your camera only goes to ISO 1600, I would suggest trying to "push" the imager a bit and shoot manual at f1.8, 1/160th at ISO 1600, then boost the levels in post and do some noise reduction in software.

Unfortunately you may start to hit some problems with both the wide aperture and resulting softness and pushing the exposure. The real truth is that you may need:

A camera that allows a higher ISO (the Nikon D3 sounds ideal for this with usable ISO 3200 and 6400, but the Canon 5D also good at ISO 3200.)

... and an even faster lens that is sharper at f1.8/f2 (i.e. the Canon EF 50mm, f1.2L or Nikkor 85mm, f/1.4D IF or somesuch.

PictureThis

Thanks!

ziggy53 wrote:

First PictureThis, welcome to the Digital Grin.

If you are at f1.8 and 1/80th at ISO 1600, I'm afraid you might be doing the best you can do.

While you don't mention the camera model and lens manufacturer, there is not a 50mm, f1.8 that is necessarily that sharp at f1.8 (wide open.) The Canon version in particular looks much better at f2.8 and is sharpest at f5.6. The Nikon starts a little better at f1.8 (IMO) but likewise does its best at f5.6.

While you might need to use f1.8, you will also need to apply some USM to achieve any degree of perceived high sharpness, so just plan on it and know that it's OK and normal.

Also the 1/80th may not be fast enough to stop motion as some of the dances require a fair amount of motion.

If your camera only goes to ISO 1600, I would suggest trying to "push" the imager a bit and shoot manual at f1.8, 1/160th at ISO 1600, then boost the levels in post and do some noise reduction in software.

Unfortunately you may start to hit some problems with both the wide aperture and resulting softness and pushing the exposure. The real truth is that you may need:

A camera that allows a higher ISO (the Nikon D3 sounds ideal for this with usable ISO 3200 and 6400, but the Canon 5D also good at ISO 3200.)

... and an even faster lens that is sharper at f1.8/f2 (i.e. the Canon EF 50mm, f1.2L or Nikkor 85mm, f/1.4D IF or somesuch.

Hi Ziggy53, Thanks for both the welcome and the information. I shoot with the Canon 40D, so I know I can get 3200 ISO. I really was surprised, however, by what you said about the Canon 50mm 1.8 fixed lens. I'm borrowing the 50mm, and I have the Canon 24-70mm 2.8 lens and the 85mm 1.8 Fixed focal. Is there another Canon lens you would suggest for this kind of photography?--like the 2.8 50mm or the 50mm 1.2 50mm? Which of those two is the better choice? Sorry for all the questions, but I really do want to make the sharpest pictures I can for low light belly dance performances.

PineapplePhoto

PictureThis wrote:

Hi Ziggy53, Thanks for both the welcome and the information. I shoot with the Canon 40D, so I know I can get 3200 ISO. I really was surprised, however, by what you said about the Canon 50mm 1.8 fixed lens. I'm borrowing the 50mm, and I have the Canon 24-70mm 2.8 lens and the 85mm 1.8 Fixed focal. Is there another Canon lens you would suggest for this kind of photography?--like the 2.8 50mm or the 50mm 1.2 50mm? Which of those two is the better choice? Sorry for all the questions, but I really do want to make the sharpest pictures I can for low light belly dance performances.

You could get a copy of the 50mm f1.0 and that would fix your problem!

Scott_Quier

The EF 50 f/1.8 is notorious for missed focus in low light situations. The EF 50 f/1.4 is better, and it's a bit better built as well.

With the 40D, I think I would take some test shots at 3200 using RAW, process them a bit to reduce the noise (Noise Ninja or some such) and see if they are usable. I've found that noise is not so much a issue when the exposure is right. It's when you try to push the exposure (attempting to use software to lighten a shot that is under-exposed) that the noise becomes intolerable.

davidweaver

Do you have some samples? If using existing lighting then metering depends upon what that light is like.

Tripod?

My brain is weird. I read your original post, Bellydancers, low light, tack sharp. Metering.

Why fight it? Shoot what you're given and work on composition and expression.

Shoot slower, and lower that ISO a bit. try a little rear-curtain flash at near minimum setting, say 40th of a second, to bring out the shadows and bump the highlights a bit. Without pics to look at it's hard to say and just an experienced guess.

Don't belly dancers move? Shoot even slower and try to get some of that cool motion. If the lighting is really bad take advantage of it and add some more power to a rear curtain set flash. You may want to do matrix metering for your brand of TTL, if not just on manual. I'm not sure what the Canon can do but I would think it can do rear curtain sync.

Learn how to read your histograms and shoot RAW.

My gut reaction to that with a D300 is
ISO:640
Shutter priority 1/40th sec
Flash (sb-800 at 1/64)

My Tamron 17-50 at 17-20 mm which would prolly roll down to 2.8 where it is okay. Maybe my 12-24dx at around 12-18mm which is fair at f.4.

Here's my hack with a 10.5mm DX I shot a few months back:


Probably about 1/15 or 1/20th of a second, wide open, hand held, existing light. I shot this on my D200 so I'd bet ISO at 800.

colourbox

To try and work around the dodgy low-light autofocus of the 50mm 1.8, if the subject is going to stay roughly the same distance I sometimes autofocus on something that's brighter but the same distance, then turn off autofocus so it doesn't rack back and forth.

Then, to deal with motion blur, I'll put the Canon into multiple-frame mode and get a burst of 3 or 4 frames. Since the subject will be relatively still at some point in the middle of moving back and forth, chances are two or three will be blurry, and maybe one will be the least blurry...that's the one I keep. The burst is used because I can't exactly predict the moment of least motion.

Also, check your stage shots for overexposed highlights due to the large expanse of dark fooling the meter. If you discover that you can drop the exposure a bit, you have an opportunity to either close the aperture a little for more sharpness, or raise the shutter speed to reduce the motion blur.

cmorganphotography

I have taken some hookah bar pictures and they have belly dancing there. Would you be opposed to burst flash? I've done it a few times with nice results. I dial the flash down to a faint glow and put it on the 2 burst before the shot is taken. It bounces some light out and I've gotten some nice shots.

It does just blind everyone if the flash is too high and I could see how that would distract the dancers. Tricky situation.

Mnemosyne

I have the 50 f1.4 and use it frequently in very low light situations. It has allowed me to shoot 400 (and occasionally 200 or 100, on both the 40D and the XTi) ISOs, while still have a 1/250 shutter. Although DOF can be an issue.

I have also used the 135 f2 successfully in low light, for the tight close ups.