Confused about ICC tags, sRGB and aRGB for the WEB

Erbeman

This whole thing with rgb and srgb. I shoot in raw, open it up in CS3 camera Raw, adjust the pic to my liking then save as a .jpg. If I then open that jpg up and get info, next to color space where it should say rgb or srgb, it is blank. If I then "save for web" my pic looks better but still has nothing under color space. So, I'm confused on what to do. What do you folks do who shoot in raw in order to get the most out of your pic before you post it on the web? I just read where someone said it's just easier to shoot in jpg. Is that the case? Will the pics look better on the web if they are shot in jpg? TIA

pathfinder

Erbeman wrote:

This whole thing with rgb and srgb. I shoot in raw, open it up in CS3 camera Raw, adjust the pic to my liking then save as a .jpg. If I then open that jpg up and get info, next to color space where it should say rgb or srgb, it is blank. If I then "save for web" my pic looks better but still has nothing under color space. So, I'm confused on what to do. What do you folks do who shoot in raw in order to get the most out of your pic before you post it on the web? I just read where someone said it's just easier to shoot in jpg. Is that the case? Will the pics look better on the web if they are shot in jpg? TIA

When you shoot in RAW, and are finished with Adobe RAW Converter, how are your images entered into Photoshop? Or are you using Lightroom?

My images pass from ARC to Photoshop as 16bit images in the ProPhoto color space for editing overhead in PS (eg: to take advantage of all the information I got shooting the file in RAW)

Once I am done editing in Photoshop ( cropping, setting white and black points, curves for various parts of the image) I am ready to save it as an 8 bit jpg for uploading to my Smugmug gallery If you check the color tags after the files are uploaded, they should read sRGB to display properly. If you click on the "info" button on an image displayed in any of my galleries, it will show sRGB as the Color Space.

To do that I convert the image from 16 bit to 8 bit by Image>Mode> 8 bit, and convert the file to sRGB by Edit>Convert to Profile> sRGB in the drop down box. If you just Save for the Web, the ICC profile is discarded from the file and the file is sent bare, without a profile. You do not want to do that. The reason the ICC profile is discarded by Save for the Web, is to minimize file size, and upload times for web pages. Not really relevant for a photo gallery.

Shooting in jpgs is "easier" - you do not have to understand photo image editing or color management, but your images will be of a lesser quality unless you are very accurate in your white balance and exposure. Within 1/3 of an fstop.....

If you want your images to look their very best, most of us choose to shoot RAW, and use a workflow similar to what I described.

If you are willing to set a custom white balance with an accurate target and exposure, shooting jpgs is easy. The camera will even tag them for you as sRGB. I discussed custom white balance tools here

Erbeman

pathfinder wrote:

When you shoot in RAW, and are finished with Adobe RAW Converter, how are your images entered into Photoshop? Or are you using Lightroom?

My images pass from ARC to Photoshop as 16bit images in the ProPhoto color space for editing overhead in PS (eg: to take advantage of all the information I got shooting the file in RAW)

Once I am done editing in Photoshop ( cropping, setting white and black points, curves for various parts of the image) I am ready to save it as an 8 bit jpg for uploading to my Smugmug gallery If you check the color tags after the files are uploaded, they should read sRGB to display properly. If you click on the "info" button on an image displayed in any of my galleries, it will show sRGB as the Color Space.

To do that I convert the image from 16 bit to 8 bit by Image>Mode> 8 bit, and convert the file to sRGB by Edit>Convert to Profile> sRGB in the drop down box. If you just Save for the Web, the ICC profile is discarded from the file and the file is sent bare, without a profile. You do not want to do that. The reason the ICC profile is discarded by Save for the Web, is to minimize file size, and upload times for web pages. Not really relevant for a photo gallery.

Shooting in jpgs is "easier" - you do not have to understand photo image editing or color management, but your images will be of a lesser quality unless you are very accurate in your white balance and exposure. Within 1/3 of an fstop.....

If you want your images to look their very best, most of us choose to shoot RAW, and use a workflow similar to what I described.

If you are willing to set a custom white balance with an accurate target and exposure, shooting jpgs is easy. The camera will even tag them for you as sRGB. I discussed custom white balance tools here

Yes, I must be missing a step because when I open my raw image in ARC I process to my liking and choose Save Image, it then pops up a window asking for location to save and if I want to rename it. I just hit save again and it closes. I then go into PS and choose file open and browse for the newly created jpg then do more pp to it then simply save it again.

pathfinder

I suspect you are using Adobe RAW Converter in Bridge, rather than in Photoshop. This can be confusing and was to me at first.

When in Bridge, Command+R opens your Raw file in ARC IN Bridge, and after processing in ARC offers the choices of Done or Save, but does not open the file in Photoshop - great if you are just reviewing your images and are not wanting to do heavy editing in Photoshop. Pressing Command+O opens the RAW file in ARC IN Photoshop. When finished with the setings in ARC, one of the choices, then, is Open, which then opens the file directly in Photoshop for you. No need to go load the file in Photoshop. Below the screen in the RAW convertor ( in blue) is a link to adjusting the image size and color spaces preferences. SO the image goes into Photoshop in sRGB or aRGB or, as mine do, ProPhoto 16 bit.

I think you can also decide which program to use ARC in, Bridge or Photoshop, in Preferences in Bridge.

Erbeman

pathfinder wrote:

I suspect you are using Adobe RAW Converter in Bridge, rather than in Photoshop. This can be confusing and was to me at first.

When in Bridge, Command+R opens your Raw file in ARC IN Bridge, and after processing in ARC offers the choices of Done or Save, but does not open the file in Photoshop - great if you are just reviewing your images and are not wanting to do heavy editing in Photoshop. Pressing Command+O opens the RAW file in ARC IN Photoshop. When finished with the setings in ARC, one of the choices, then, is Open, which then opens the file directly in Photoshop for you. No need to go load the file in Photoshop. Below the screen in the RAW convertor ( in blue) is a link to adjusting the image size and color spaces preferences. SO the image goes into Photoshop in sRGB or aRGB or, as mine do, ProPhoto 16 bit.

I think you can also decide which program to use ARC in, Bridge or Photoshop, in Preferences in Bridge.

No, I don't use bridge. I simply download my photos using the Nikon Picture Project software then open up my documents and double click on the NEF file and it opens up PS then the pic opens up in ARC.

Wow, your explaination really helped me though. So, when I open up the blue link my pics are Adobe RGB/8 bits/3008 by 2000/240 pixels per inch. What should I adjust there?

pathfinder

The link below the image viewing panel in ARC 4.3 ( in CS 3 ) offers a choice of various sizes and color spaces. If you need to uprez or downrez your image size, some think this is bettter place to do it, than in Photoshop - I usually just use my image at its native resolution, unless I know I am going to need a significantly bigger file. I bring my images into Photoshop from ARC in 16 bit in the ProPhoto color space. This gives me a file with the largest available image information both in bit depth ( versus 8 bit ) and the largest color space ProPhoto. After editing these images in Photshop, as I said earlier, they need to be coverted to sRGB and 8 bit for uploading to the web.

SOME of the newere inkjet printers can print 16 bit images, but most older printers could not accept anything but 8 bit images. Many of the newer pro llevel injet printers with 8 or more ink cartridges can print much of the color space of aRGB, but most online printers are limited to accepting files in sRGB.

Adobe RGB tagged files will look flat and muted when uploaded and viewed on the WEB.

Erbeman

pathfinder wrote:

The link below the image viewing panel in ARC 4.3 ( in CS 3 ) offers a choice of various sizes and color spaces. If you need to uprez or downrez your image size, some think this is bettter place to do it, than in Photoshop - I usually just use my image at its native resolution, unless I know I am going to need a significantly bigger file. I bring my images into Photoshop from ARC in 16 bit in the ProPhoto color space. This gives me a file with the largest available image information both in bit depth ( versus 8 bit ) and the largest color space ProPhoto. After editing these images in Photshop, as I said earlier, they need to be coverted to sRGB and 8 bit for uploading to the web.

SOME of the newere inkjet printers can print 16 bit images, but most older printers could not accept anything but 8 bit images. Many of the newer pro llevel injet printers with 8 or more ink cartridges can print much of the color space of aRGB, but most online printers are limited to accepting files in sRGB.

Adobe RGB tagged files will look flat and muted when uploaded and viewed on the WEB.

Thank you so much for clearing me up on this.