Becoming a (pro) photographer???

DoctorIt

The header of this forum, "why aren't mine like ansel's", prompts this question from me:

How do I become Ansel?

I realize this is a huge question, but I don't remember it being addressed anywhere else on this forum yet. I'm not expecting the pros out there to give step by step instructions, just wondering if there are any good hints for young, at times disenchanted graduate-student-photographer-hopefuls.

Quick preface for my asking. This weekend I went and shot a bicycle race (see here: http://doctorit.smugmug.com/gallery/94212) and thought about all the sporting events I've been to and the hundreds of photogs who are there actually working. It seems it should be possible for me to break into this line of work, somehow, even at a very very low level.

So how bout it pros?

DoctorIt

I just tried to feature a photo, hoping that link would bring you right to it, but no. So I just wanted to point out one that I thought was good from the many many in that link above:

Seamaiden

I didn't know Adams did sports photography.

wxwax

That's a nice, sharp pic, Doc.

Here are my opinions on your question.

#1 Anyone can set up shop as a photographer. Making money is a different matter. I see lots of shooters, as do you. But I wonder how many of them make a great income?

#2 Photography is an art. As such, it requires talent. Skill can be learned, but talent is something you're born with. Education can bring it out, but ultimately you either got it or you don't. To me, innate talent is a big part of why some people can make a go of it, and others can't.

So I don't think you can learn to become Ansel. To some degree, you must be born to it.

rutt

wxwax wrote:

So I don't think you can learn to become Ansel. To some degree, you must be born to it.

On the other hand, I think you can learn to be a pro in the sense that you can learn how to make money with photography. For example, you can learn where the opportunities are, how to price your work. Perhaps you need to serve some sort of apprenticeship? That sort of thing.

cletus

wxwax wrote:

#1 Anyone can set up shop as a photographer. Making money is a different matter. I see lots of shooters, as do you. But I wonder how many of them make a great income?

Probably something on the order of 0.0000000001%.

One of my friends from college has kept with sports photography as a profession. She's won several awards, including a 1st place in the PoYi Sports Feature category a couple years back. Salary.com has a write-up on her here.

I would guess that her story is pretty typical for sports photograpers. On the other hand, maybe freelancers can make more money

DoctorIt

rutt wrote:

On the other hand, I think you can learn to be a pro in the sense that you can learn how to make money with photography. For example, you can learn where the opportunities are, how to price your work. Perhaps you need to serve some sort of apprenticeship? That sort of thing.

Good points, everyone, but my thinking is mostly along the lines of Rutt's reply above. I'm definitely not expecting to make a living as a photog, wouldn't be bad though, its something that I enjoy doing both for the art and with the type of shooting I enjoy most - nature and sports - the escape. Let me share my dream: I'm a doctoral candidate right now and although its not easy, my school/work allows me more free time than most full time jobs. I get by on my assistantship, but boy wouldn't it be great to sell a photo here and there to put towards another battery or more memory? dare I say new glass?

DoctorIt

wxwax wrote:

That's a nice, sharp pic, Doc.

So I don't think you can learn to become Ansel. To some degree, you must be born to it.

First, thanks!

And second, Ansel definitely wasn't the example I should have used, just took that off the forum header. I agree his work is photography at perhaps its highest and most artistic level. My current "idols" are more along the lines of Graham Watson (THE bicycling photographer) or Peter Read Miller (an SI ace).

rutt

DoctorIt wrote:

but boy wouldn't it be great to sell a photo here and there to put towards another battery or more memory? dare I say new glass?

OK, modest goals. Perhaps I can help a little with them. I am strict about my amateur status, but I do get quite a few offers to buy prints of my pictures and recently I even received a few offers of work. Frankly, these were very humble, but that's what we are talking about. Here's how this happened. I've been taking pictures at some local events for about 3 years. These have almost all been things my kids participated in: soccer, baseball, xc skiing, school plays, concerts, &etc.
I post my pictures on smugmug, and I have business cards with the web site and my contact info. When I'm shooting, I distribute these cards pretty widely. If I get especially good shots, I print them and find the parents and give them the print. Often, they offer money at this point, but I refuse. When I don't particularly like a shot, I still post it so long as it's not too bad and the best shot of the particular kid at the particular event. If I get a request to print these, I suggest smugmug's printing service.

I guess this all goes into the category of investing in my publicity as a photographer. I don't really think of it that way. I just think it's fun. But it does connect me to an audience that I wouldn't have otherwise. My shots from the BKL festival (kid's XC ski race) got >40k hits last month and >1k click through's to medium and large.

At this point, if I wanted to, I suppose I could pay for a battery or simething once in a while. It isn't going to justify a 1Dmii anytime soon...

rutt

Anyway, the picture of the cyclist is a great example. This kid's parents would like to have a print of this shot. Make one, get it to them, and odds are they will offer to pay you for it.

bham

rutt, I understand you are being generous by giving the pics away, but by doing this you are undervaluing your time, skill, effort to take the pics (and that of other photographers). I understand you want to share your work and maybe even showoff your skill a little, but if someone else who is trying to make a living working the event and selling pics, you are cutting into their livelyhood. I am not trying to criticize just pointing out something. Also realize that if you actually added a charge for your time, effort, etc you could pay for your next year of smugmug, a new lens, etc. Doing what you enjoy and allowing you to expand and develop your passion.

Sometimes if you do things for free, people then place less value on it.

rutt

bham wrote:

but if someone else who is trying to make a living working the event and selling pics, you are cutting into their livelyhood..

This is a very interesting point, one I really hadn't considered. Most of the pictures I take that people want to buy are of other people's children participating in events with my own children. Concerts, sporting events, plays, that sort of thing. So the potential customers are either friends, potential friends, or often people who have contributed their own time and money to make the event a success (coaches, for example). These situations are special, I think, but also they have taught me that it wouldn't be hard to make a little money selling people pictures of their kids performing.

Maybe I will start to make a distinction between cases where photography is my volunteer contribution and other situations.

DoctorIt

Funny that someone should make that comment to you Rutt... a couple weeks ago I made the aquaintance of a former pro sports photographer from Australia, who took just that same advice to heart after shooting his own son at soccer games. Long story short, I'm a "pro" (sold one pic so far) photographer now! The business is in very early stages, but we're doing basically what has been suggested here - shooting youth sports and appealing to parents and players. Its been a fun past few weeks...

check us out: http://www.youthsportpix.com

rutt

DoctorIt wrote:

Funny that someone should make that comment to you Rutt... a couple weeks ago I made the aquaintance of a former pro sports photographer from Australia, who took just that same advice to heart after shooting his own son at soccer games. Long story short, I'm a "pro" (sold one pic so far) photographer now! The business is in very early stages, but we're doing basically what has been suggested here - shooting youth sports and appealing to parents and players. Its been a fun past few weeks...

check us out: http://www.youthsportpix.com

That's the way to do it. But don't miss out on plays, concerts, graduations, &etc. People will buy even very bad shots of their children at these.

A good trick for plays is to go to the dress rehersals. Go to more than one if you can.

scrooks

rutt wrote:

I've been taking pictures at some local events for about 3 years. These have almost all been things my kids participated in: soccer, baseball, xc skiing, school plays, concerts, &etc.
I post my pictures on smugmug, and I have business cards with the web site and my contact info. When I'm shooting, I distribute these cards pretty widely. If I get especially good shots, I print them and find the parents and give them the print. Often, they offer money at this point, but I refuse. When I don't particularly like a shot, I still post it so long as it's not too bad and the best shot of the particular kid at the particular event. If I get a request to print these, I suggest smugmug's printing service.

This sounds very similar to what I've been doing, and my "business" selling pictures from school events is starting to pick up. I sell them dirt cheap because either way I'm not really going to make that much and I'd rather more people bought and enjoyed my shots. When my son plays basketball I always take shots of all the kids and then present each parent with a great 8x10 action shot of their kid -- free. I expect that offers for little jobs will continue to ramp up as time goes on. But even if they don't, that's okay, I'm having fun.

But one thing I'm curious about, rutt -- do you password protect those photos? I have been and I wonder if I need to be. On the one hand, I worry that if I don't I'll get some parent yelling at me that I've posted pictures of their precious child all over the Internet. An exagerration, but not one without some merit. But if the galleries weren't passworded then my exposure for what kinds of pictures I can take would be much greater (my galleries become a living portfolio), combined with perhaps just a few more sales to those who lose that piece of paper with the password on it.

So -- any advice? It would take some convincing for me not to password protect, but it could be done. This school year is almost over and I could start up fresh next fall doing things a little differently.

tmlphoto

Family Business

scrooks wrote:

This sounds very similar to what I've been doing, and my "business" selling pictures from school events is starting to pick up. I sell them dirt cheap because either way I'm not really going to make that much and I'd rather more people bought and enjoyed my shots. When my son plays basketball I always take shots of all the kids and then present each parent with a great 8x10 action shot of their kid -- free. I expect that offers for little jobs will continue to ramp up as time goes on. But even if they don't, that's okay, I'm having fun.

But one thing I'm curious about, rutt -- do you password protect those photos? I have been and I wonder if I need to be. On the one hand, I worry that if I don't I'll get some parent yelling at me that I've posted pictures of their precious child all over the Internet. An exagerration, but not one without some merit. But if the galleries weren't passworded then my exposure for what kinds of pictures I can take would be much greater (my galleries become a living portfolio), combined with perhaps just a few more sales to those who lose that piece of paper with the password on it.

So -- any advice? It would take some convincing for me not to password protect, but it could be done. This school year is almost over and I could start up fresh next fall doing things a little differently.

Hey Scrooks,
I've been doing something similar also. Up to now I have password protected all of these galleries. I also do some occassional portrait work, which I also password protect. I agree with you that password protecting all of the public event photos seems to almost be overkill, but I have still been doing it because of some vague uneasyness in posting them without any password. I quess I agree that it might be a sensitive area for some folks and I sure don't want to step on any bodies toes, especially when it comes to their kids. I suppose using some very simple password, ie. 123 or ABC would offer some protection , but would be ok for some public event photos. I feel a little more strongly (not sure exactly why) about password protecting my portrait work that I have done for some friends. I also have been charging a nominal charge for all of my work. Basically enough to cover my smugmug costs and the cost of printing up some business cards and MAYBE a little extra to buy a new lens one day. Your thoughts anyone?

rutt

I have never password protected and never got any flack. I don't post any names, addresses, etc., so my theory is that they are just faces. People seem to get a lot of fun from it. I'll be happy to hide anything people what me to.

sarahangel

Taking lots of pictures.

DoctorIt wrote:

The header of this forum, "why aren't mine like ansel's", prompts this question from me:

How do I become Ansel?

I realize this is a huge question, but I don't remember it being addressed anywhere else on this forum yet. I'm not expecting the pros out there to give step by step instructions, just wondering if there are any good hints for young, at times disenchanted graduate-student-photographer-hopefuls.

Quick preface for my asking. This weekend I went and shot a bicycle race (see here: http://doctorit.smugmug.com/gallery/94212) and thought about all the sporting events I've been to and the hundreds of photogs who are there actually working. It seems it should be possible for me to break into this line of work, somehow, even at a very very low level.

So how bout it pros?

Greetings!

If you have a photograph's eye, you can be a pro. I find myself capuring pictures with my eye's camera all the time, even when I do not have a camera in my hands.

So you just keep taking hundreds of pictures, studying composition, taking classes with the pros you admirer, staying connected in community, and in the industry.Then, one day you wake up, and you really are a pro.

If God wants you to be a pro photographer, then go for it.

God Bless you.

Sarah Angel

wxwax

Hi Sarah, welcome to dgrin. We'd love to see some of your work.

AltPro

Model Releases
On Password protecting...
For what it's worth, here's my 10 cents.
When you go to these events, carry model release forms that state that if you want to see your childs photo at this event, it will be posted (at the appropriate gallery).smugmug.com. Go on to say specify that these photos will be used as a part of your online portfolio, and have the parents sign the release. In short order, parents will know that in order for their childs photo to be posted they need to have signed the release, and they will seek you out.

Remember, there are many parents who will welcome knowing that there is a place for family, friends and relatives to go and see "drama Suzy," and "Soccer Joe." Not too overlook the stage parent!

Trust me, it works, and it will enable you to receive that extra exposure.

Mom of five, speaking.
ginette