How to quote a job?

populus

OK, I really need help with this. Most of my professional photography is kid sports (swimming) and technical photography in support of my real job.

Now, I have been asked to shoot people visiting a medical facility and getting treatments. The pix will be used in marketing materials, on-site displays, web sites, trade shows. Some of the pix would be printed life size.

I have the equipment and the know-how. What I lack is any idea of how to quote the price. This is not a one-off job - it could lead to assignment shooting all over the country, so I want to get the initial pricing right.

My inclination is to do this as hourly work-for-hire since I don't know how much time the setups will take.

Any ideas, suggestions, reading assignments would be gratefully received.

Sam

I see your not getting responses, so's I guess I will chime in.

I would recommend quoting an amount for your time, and expenses. Hourly, or day rate however you want to do it, plus a separate amount for usage.

If you want to tell them your initial quote for this job is low, because of A,B, and C, and your going to give them a great Price for usage go ahead.

Buy quoting these two items separately you have established that, your equipment, skill, and experience has a value that is separate from the usage value.

Even if you quote the first job too low, you will have more room to move up at a later date.

I have done work for hire as a second shooter at a weeding, and I don't mind that at all, but I can't imagine doing work for hire for this type of a job. Well OK I can imagine it. but no sane client would pay what I would need.

Do you have experience preparing files for large prints? From the description you will need to be very careful with the image quality and preparation. Do they have an art department? Do they want RAW files to prepare themselves, or is it all up to you?

Finally, put everything in writing. Speak with the principals. List what you will do. Exactly what you will deliver. When you will deliver it. Quote exact charges. Be specific.

Make sure you don't put yourself in a situation where someone says, "we only need a couple of shots" you give them an all inclusive quote based on this, and then when your on site it turns into an all day shoot. Don't ask how I learned this!

I hope this helps.

Sam

populus

Sam wrote:

I see your not getting responses, so's I guess I will chime in.

I would recommend quoting an amount for your time, and expenses. Hourly, or day rate however you want to do it, plus a separate amount for usage.

If you want to tell them your initial quote for this job is low, because of A,B, and C, and your going to give them a great Price for usage go ahead.

Buy quoting these two items separately you have established that, your equipment, skill, and experience has a value that is separate from the usage value.

Even if you quote the first job too low, you will have more room to move up at a later date.

I have done work for hire as a second shooter at a weeding, and I don't mind that at all, but I can't imagine doing work for hire for this type of a job. Well OK I can imagine it. but no sane client would pay what I would need.

Do you have experience preparing files for large prints? From the description you will need to be very careful with the image quality and preparation. Do they have an art department? Do they want RAW files to prepare themselves, or is it all up to you?

Finally, put everything in writing. Speak with the principals. List what you will do. Exactly what you will deliver. When you will deliver it. Quote exact charges. Be specific.

Make sure you don't put yourself in a situation where someone says, "we only need a couple of shots" you give them an all inclusive quote based on this, and then when your on site it turns into an all day shoot. Don't ask how I learned this!

I hope this helps.

Sam

Thanks, Sam. That is very helpful. I have made extremely large prints, so that is not an issue, and I will be doing all the processing and ordering the final prints, since they don't have an art department (it's a startup company). I like the idea of separating labor fees from usage - that seems very sound.

Sam

Sounds like your going to be the go to guy for everything. This is great as long as you don't sell yourself short.

All the little things, (can you mount these prints on aluminum alligator belly skin? Can you crop, resize, and take the cigarette out of the CEO's hand, and clean up the smoke in the photo? Can you make the sweater red instead of green? Can you make this phto long and skinny for our web page banner?) can add to real time spent.

Good luck. Let us know how it worked out!

Sam

rwells

I think Sam has you on the right track generally.


That being said, I would carefully research the term "work-for-hire". I can't at the moment remember for sure (I've never billed out like that), but I do believe that the term "work-for-hire" has some legal meaning and copyright issues that you may not like.

Example: Wedding shooters will hire a second shooter as "work-for-hire". It's commonly accepted that the second shooter gives up his/her copyright due to the "work-for-hire" status of the agreement.

I'm not sure about the legal basis of this, but in my opinion, it's definitely something to check into based on the wide-spread usage of these images.

I'd hate to see you only get paid for your shooting time, and due to the wording "work-for-hire" not get a penny for the image(s) usage.

Angelo

pay attention to Randy and never, ever, type, utter, or think, the words "work-for-hire" for as long as you shall live.

now, that being said, a common practice among photogs for work of this nature is to quote a day rate.

what are you comfortable with? $1000? OK, quote them $1,000 per day - limited to 8 hours. time exceeding 8 hours in any 24 hour period is billed at the hourly rate of; what are you comfortable with? $200? OK, charge $200 per hour, for time exceeding 8 hours.

a photo assistant is required? he/she gets; what is that person comfortable with? $250 per day? OK, quote $250 per day for the photo assistant.

a cancellation, site problem, short shoot... anything makes for a short day? OK, charge them a partial day. what are you comfortable with? $600? OK, charge them $600 for any 4 hour period.

get it?

and never, ever, sign over your copyright on any images - unless they pay a fee that you're comfortable with.

get it?



oh, and for the above pricing suggestions... you're responsible to bring all necessary equipment and materials necessary to complete the job at hand. no nickel-and-diming the client for rentals, etc.

get it?

Sam

I think Sam has you on the right track generally.

:bash generally, GENERALLY :gun2 Hurump!!

What rwells, and Angelo said.

I don't mind as a second shooter at a wedding, but as I said before I can't imagine doing work for hire for a job like this, or any other without an outrageous amount of $$$.

rwells, and Angelo said it a little better and more forcefully.

Sam

populus

Angelo wrote:

pay attention to Randy and never, ever, type, utter, or think, the words "work-for-hire" for as long as you shall live.

now, that being said, a common practice among photogs for work of this nature is to quote a day rate.

what are you comfortable with? $1000? OK, quote them $1,000 per day - limited to 8 hours. time exceeding 8 hours in any 24 hour period is billed at the hourly rate of; what are you comfortable with? $200? OK, charge $200 per hour, for time exceeding 8 hours.

a photo assistant is required? he/she gets; what is that person comfortable with? $250 per day? OK, quote $250 per day for the photo assistant.

a cancellation, site problem, short shoot... anything makes for a short day? OK, charge them a partial day. what are you comfortable with? $600? OK, charge them $600 for any 4 hour period.

get it?

and never, ever, sign over your copyright on any images - unless they pay a fee that you're comfortable with.

get it?



oh, and for the above pricing suggestions... you're responsible to bring all necessary equipment and materials necessary to complete the job at hand. no nickel-and-diming the client for rentals, etc.

get it?

Thanks, this is great guidance and gets me on the right track. I shouldn't have said w-f-h (see, I'm not ever going to type the words again!), since I don't intend for the client to own the product. I meant charging by the hour, but I like your charge by the day. Since I will need to add some equipment (not much), having a fixed daily charge will let me take care of the equipment without nickel-and-diming the client.

Thank to Sam, Rwells and Angelo!

cmorganphotography

I don't have any advice just want to chime in and say I read everything and it pertained to a few things I wanted answered and to also say

GOOD LUCK

I can't go in hospitals, terribly, terribly afraid. Win one for the photographers, Populus!!!

populus

cmorganphotography wrote:

I don't have any advice just want to chime in and say I read everything and it pertained to a few things I wanted answered and to also say

GOOD LUCK

I can't go in hospitals, terribly, terribly afraid. Win one for the photographers, Populus!!!

Thanks for the encouragement! I'll report back on the job in a couple of weeks.