Another new monitor thread.

urbanaries · July 16, 2008

I have a 17" Sony Vaio laptop which does not take well to Huey Pro calibration. I basically calibrate prints by eye via test prints :hide.

I am hesitating on an LCD because I really don't want to spend $500-700 and have the same struggles with calibrating as I do now. I know some give the Huey Pro great reviews, but I haven't had success and I really can't afford to be on this merry go round of buying monitors and calibrators.

Since space is less of an issue as price and color consistency, what considerations do I need to have regarding CRTs? I remember reading something about the old Sony trinitrons being good but I don't know.

pathfinder · July 16, 2008

Lynne,

I don't think you can even buy a new CRT anymore. Get yourself a 24 in or larger LCD, you will love the change. Replace the Huey also.

I have used an Apple Cinema Display for the last several years - one of the best computing dollars I ever spent. Calibrates nicely as well with my Spyder2Pro. The newer Spyder3 is well regarded as is the EyeOne 2.

urbanaries · July 16, 2008

pathfinder wrote:

Lynne,

I don't think you can even buy a new CRT anymore. Get yourself a 24 in or larger LCD, you will love the change. Replace the Huey also.

I have used an Apple Cinema Display for the last several years - one of the best computing dollars I ever spent. Calibrates nicely as well with my Spyder2Pro. The newer Spyder3 is well regarded as is the EyeOne 2.

Yikes! The 23 inch Apple display alone is $900. Can they be used with PC laptops? I'm assuming I'll need a docking station on top of that? Just seems excessive to me, but I have a hard time parting with my lens/body/marketing budget for computing (others have opposite issues, I understand).

I can find CRTs used all day long, and everyone seems to agree they're more accurate and less finicky than the LCDs, so what am I missing here?

pathfinder · July 17, 2008

Laptop LCDs are notorious for not calibrating well, especially with the Huey. I, strongly, prefer not to edit or process on a laptop screen.

To find a CRT with the area of a 20 in or a 24 in LCD may be hard. Used CRTs are probably close to the end of their service life, and may be hard to keep calibrated also. Why buy someone else's discards, unless you know a way to get a recent Artisan at an especially good price. Artisans were Sony's reference monitor, but I do not believe they are available any longer

Yes, you can use a Cinema Display on a PC if it has a DVI output and most video cards do these days. For $500 you can find a long list of LCDs made by ViewSonic, Samsung, NEC, BENQ, among others. $599 will get you a 20 in Apple display, but I really think you will prefer a 24 in monitor that allows you to have your palettes and tools on the same monitor.

I think you will find that once you edit on a larger LCD, you will never want to give it up. Just my wild guess

I calibrate my monitor once a month, and it never seems to change. LCDs are so much easier on the eyes than a CRT.

Who says CRTs are less finicky and more accurate these days? That might have been true 5 years ago, but that was a long time ago. Try to find a CRT television in HD. LCDs do HD-TV with ease.

Newsy · July 18, 2008

Lynne,

Do yourself a favour and read this thread:

The Anand LCD Thread
http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview.aspx?catid=31&threadid=2049206&enterthread=y
- if you read through to the appendices at the end of post 2 in the thread you will find a list of recommended monitors for various tasks.

Try to get an understanding of the panel technologies used in the latest LCD monitors.

In terms of image quality for photo editing, these are the panel types from best to worst:

IPS (newer variants are S-IPS, AS-IPS, H-IPS, etc)
PVA (newer variants are S-PVA)
MVA (newer variants are A-MVA, P-MVA, S-MVA, etc)
TN

The Apples use an IPS panel but so do several NEC's. Also consider the PVA's - as compared to the poor panel in your laptop (a TN most likely), the better PVA's are much much better and almost as good as the IPS panels.

A plus for the PVA's is that they are normally a lot less money than the IPS paneled monitors.

One issue with laptops is that many only offer analog VGA for your connection to the external monitor. This is livable but I think you would find a better image quality if you could connect via DVI.

If it was me looking for a monitor I would consider the NEC 2490 and the 23" Apples as these have IPS panels, and a fairly new monitor, the Lenovo 22" L220X which is a good quality PVA, as well as the Samsung 245T (PVA). That said, I am using a PVA monitor today and have used it with my laptop in the past and am perfectly happy with it.

As the other poster implied, IMHO some of your issue is the Huey.

Here are some other links that you can use to figure out what monitor is best for you.

XBit LCD Testing Methodology
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/other/display/lcd-testmethods_7.html#sect0

Use to discover panel types (type in IPS, etc)
http://www.flatpanels.dk/panels.php
http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/panelsearch.htm
(these two sites are typically accurate but sometimes mfg's change panels in mid-model run - aka panel lotteries)

Use to see & compare monitor screens from various angles:
http://www.digitalversus.com/duels.php?ty=6&ma1=36&mo1=104&p1=1040&ma2=52&ph=8
(and the link should show two monitors that while not the best, are good, but are also no longer made)

Review sites that shows images of the monitors viewed from various angles:
http://www.behardware.com/html/cat/22/
http://www.anandtech.com/displays/
http://www.prad.de/en/monitore/reviews.html

Some review sites that get technical:
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/other/
http://www.extremetech.com/category2/0,1695,23466,00.asp

A review sites that covers a lot of displays:
http://www.trustedreviews.com/displays/

.

urbanaries · July 18, 2008

Newsy wrote:

Lynne,

Do yourself a favour and read this thread:

The Anand LCD Thread
http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview.aspx?catid=31&threadid=2049206&enterthread=y
- if you read through to the appendices at the end of post 2 in the thread you will find a list of recommended monitors for various tasks.

Try to get an understanding of the panel technologies used in the latest LCD monitors.
....

Thanks for chiming in. I've read your posts on this issue many times before and appreciate the info. I'm long sold on the IPS or PVA panel benefits. The major problem is it is very difficult to find out what panel is in monitors when shopping online, and when I finally get an answer from a 3rd party on which MODELS are in my price range, and in my feature set range, they're discontinued. So I *really* appreciate your naming specific models that are current. I've read some of your reviews/recommendations from ~May of this year that I couldn't find, so I am very happy to have these.

Another monitor that seems to get great reviews in my price range (5-600) is the Dell Ultrasharp 24 inch. There are various model numbers, however, and I am not sure which ones have the PVA or IPS panels.

UPDATE: this link http://www.flatpanels.dk/panels.php apparently had an update in June of this year, which added >100 models, which explains why now I'm finding info on every one I am finding while shopping, but I was getting close to nada in May! Thanks!

zoeblue · July 23, 2008

Hi Lynne,

I just went through the same conundrum regarding the purchase of a new monitor. I have a 15" MacBook Pro and the Huey Pro. After reading post after post regarding monitor calibration, I realized that I needed a new monitor. I had a budget of around $800 or so and I also needed a new calibration system after all the reading on this forum and elsewhere that the Huey Pro just wasn't adequate.

After agonizing and reading many posts on monitor issues till my eyes felt like they were going to bleed, I finally decided on the NEC Multisync LCD2470WNX based on the many recommendations for NEC monitors. Many pro photogs seem to recommend NEC monitors more than any other brand. I checked and this particular model has an S-PVA (Samsung LTM240M2) panel.

I ordered it from Amazon.com for $759.98 and just got it today. In fact, I'm giving it a test drive right now and I'm loving all the real-estate of a 24" monitor

.

I also ordered the Eye-One Display 2 as it gets great reviews from many photogs. The DTP94 calibrator and the ColorEyes software get the best reviews and recommendations, but at $325, it seemed a bit expensive to me and I wanted to stay somewhat within my budget.

I ordered the Eye-One Display 2 from Adorama as they had the cheapest price for it at $209.95 and if you're not in a rush, there are no shipping charges from both Amazon.com and Adorama.

Still waiting for the Eye-One Display 2 and so I will have to hold off on editing photos till then. Good luck on finding the right monitor.

cmason · July 23, 2008

I had the exact same issues when it came to replacing my old 17" LCD. I had basically decided on a Dell monitor, only to discover that shipping models were no longer IPS. I also discovered that there is no IPS model in 22", and most 22" are TN which I wanted to avoid. So in order to get a good monitor, I was going to have to purchase either a 20" or go up to a 24".

In the end, I decided on something slightly different: I bought a 24" iMac. Considering what a good monitor costs, an iMac is not much more. I bought a refurb model from the Apple store online, and it was only $350 more than the monitor I was considering. And now I have a stunning 24" IPS monitor (and a new PC to geek over)

urbanaries · July 25, 2008

cmason wrote:

I had the exact same issues when it came to replacing my old 17" LCD. I had basically decided on a Dell monitor, only to discover that shipping models were no longer IPS. I also discovered that there is no IPS model in 22", and most 22" are TN which I wanted to avoid. So in order to get a good monitor, I was going to have to purchase either a 20" or go up to a 24".

In the end, I decided on something slightly different: I bought a 24" iMac. Considering what a good monitor costs, an iMac is not much more. I bought a refurb model from the Apple store online, and it was only $350 more than the monitor I was considering. And now I have a stunning 24" IPS monitor (and a new PC to geek over)

I have definitely considered that option. As a former MacGirl and a graphic designer I can't honestly say I miss Macs all that much. They are slick and it's fun to be part of the "brand", but I think folks downplay the challenges with compatibility, although maybe things are better now than before OSX. And, my work computer is PC with Quark, Adobe CS suite etc and I do telecommute some, so that's why I abandoned my first mac (I didn't want to buy two licenses for everything!) They truly are like energizer bunnies though...they get obsolete long before they get fried (unlike PCs). Thanks for the input.....who knows, I may end up there again!

urbanaries · July 25, 2008

zoeblue wrote:

Hi Lynne,

I just went through the same conundrum regarding the purchase of a new monitor. I have a 15" MacBook Pro and the Huey Pro. After reading post after post regarding monitor calibration, I realized that I needed a new monitor. I had a budget of around $800 or so and I also needed a new calibration system after all the reading on this forum and elsewhere that the Huey Pro just wasn't adequate.

After agonizing and reading many posts on monitor issues till my eyes felt like they were going to bleed, I finally decided on the NEC Multisync LCD2470WNX based on the many recommendations for NEC monitors. Many pro photogs seem to recommend NEC monitors more than any other brand. I checked and this particular model has an S-PVA (Samsung LTM240M2) panel.

I ordered it from Amazon.com for $759.98 and just got it today. In fact, I'm giving it a test drive right now and I'm loving all the real-estate of a 24" monitor .

I also ordered the Eye-One Display 2 as it gets great reviews from many photogs. The DTP94 calibrator and the ColorEyes software get the best reviews and recommendations, but at $325, it seemed a bit expensive to me and I wanted to stay somewhat within my budget.

I ordered the Eye-One Display 2 from Adorama as they had the cheapest price for it at $209.95 and if you're not in a rush, there are no shipping charges from both Amazon.com and Adorama.

Still waiting for the Eye-One Display 2 and so I will have to hold off on editing photos till then. Good luck on finding the right monitor.

Thanks for your input Zoe! I had a lot of fun browsing your site and reading your blog. What a cool chick you are!

Anyhoo, I really appreciate your shared experience! I have looked at the NEC's too and have one on my list. I am definitely leaning toward the 22" Lenovo though, it's such a great value and gets great reviews. I may miss the extra 2", but in stores I couldn't see THAT much difference....but then again, I'm also pretty cheap!

Thanks again and good luck with your EyeOne.

cmason · July 25, 2008

urbanaries wrote:

I have definitely considered that option. As a former MacGirl and a graphic designer I can't honestly say I miss Macs all that much. They are slick and it's fun to be part of the "brand", but I think folks downplay the challenges with compatibility, although maybe things are better now than before OSX. And, my work computer is PC with Quark, Adobe CS suite etc and I do telecommute some, so that's why I abandoned my first mac (I didn't want to buy two licenses for everything!) They truly are like energizer bunnies though...they get obsolete long before they get fried (unlike PCs). Thanks for the input.....who knows, I may end up there again!

Yeah, I bought the iMac mostly because of the monitor, and I needed to upgrade to a new core 2 duo pc anyway, to replace my aging one. I am no Mac fanboy, but frankly for the apps I use: Lightroom, MS Office, Photoshop, Firefox... it makes no difference which OS I use, the apps are identical. So I bought the iMac because as a refurb, I got a great deal for what I was looking for (large IPS monitor and core 2 duo). I bought VMWare Fusion and run any other missing apps in my Windows XP image from my old PC (S*E and I ran CS2 there for a while), and this works perfectly.

So I get basically everything I wanted, including a new Windows PC. For me, Mac OSX is just a bonus, not the objective.

Overall, I do appreciate what appears to be better memory management and stability, in that the Mac will run for longer stretches of time than my Windows XP machines. XP tended to be good for a week. OS X I have gotten to 3 weeks with no issues. Btw, it rarely runs longer than that as by then it seems there is always a software update that wants a reboot

Cuong · July 25, 2008

I recently got the Dell 2408WFP, which uses the S-PVA panel. The 24" widescreen format just blows me away with the amount of screen space available when I'm using Lightroom. It's in your price range, around $580 (check techbargains.com for good deals).

For calibration, I use X-Rite Eye-One Display 2 (i1Display 2), which is really quick and very easy to use.

I hope this gives you a few more choices to consider. Happy shopping.

Cuong

urbanaries · July 25, 2008

Cuong wrote:

I recently got the Dell 2408WFP, which uses the S-PVA panel. The 24" widescreen format just blows me away with the amount of screen space available when I'm using Lightroom. It's in your price range, around $580 (check techbargains.com for good deals).

For calibration, I use X-Rite Eye-One Display 2 (i1Display 2), which is really quick and very easy to use.

I hope this gives you a few more choices to consider. Happy shopping.

Cuong

I was considering that one because through work I have a Dell discount. At first I was hesitant to buy Dell monitors because I'd read so much about panel switcheroos. But now that I discovered that flatpanels.dk link.... says its an S-PVA panel. Is that reliable?

Another question...do refurbished monitors get different panels?

Scott_Quier · July 25, 2008

Lynne,

I'm a bit confused by the content of this thread (yes, it's quite easy to confuse those less well endowed with brain cells), but are you looking for a monitor for a desktop type computer or an external monitor for a laptop?

If a desktop, something to consider is getting two less expensive, but at least one of them very good quality, and running a dual monitor set up. Put your pallets on one monitor and the image(s) on the better monitor. If the monitor bezels are small, it's like one great big huge monitor - sweet. This is my dream setup that I'm hoping for in the next year or so.

Just a thought

urbanaries · July 25, 2008

Scott_Quier wrote:

are you looking for a monitor for a desktop type computer or an external monitor for a laptop?

External monitor for a laptop. I still don't have a desktop but my laptop performance is quite good after upgrading my RAM (and I actually did it myself without killing anything, so you should be proud!) and moving most files to external HD setup. So, I would like to get a good monitor because my laptop monitor is un-calibrateable.

Eventually I'll need someone like MacGyver-Quier to build me a custom desktop PC (which of course, I can use with whatever monitor I purchase), but for right now a good monitor is where I'm truly lacking.

And the modesty doesn't work....we all know how brainy you are! :devbobo

DavidTO · July 25, 2008

Lynn,

re: your earlier comment about compatibility: OSX has changed everything.

That is all.

Cuong · July 25, 2008

urbanaries wrote:

I was considering that one because through work I have a Dell discount. At first I was hesitant to buy Dell monitors because I'd read so much about panel switcheroos. But now that I discovered that flatpanels.dk link.... says its an S-PVA panel. Is that reliable?

Another question...do refurbished monitors get different panels?

Here's another review from AnandTech.

Logically speaking, refurbished equipment are supposed to be inspected, restored to original specs, tested and repackaged. This means they should have the same panel. What's the reality, I don't really know.

Cuong

zoeblue · July 25, 2008

urbanaries wrote:

Thanks for your input Zoe! I had a lot of fun browsing your site and reading your blog. What a cool chick you are! Anyhoo, I really appreciate your shared experience! I have looked at the NEC's too and have one on my list. I am definitely leaning toward the 22" Lenovo though, it's such a great value and gets great reviews. I may miss the extra 2", but in stores I couldn't see THAT much difference....but then again, I'm also pretty cheap! Thanks again and good luck with your EyeOne.

Thanks Lynne! I just got the Eye-One Display 2 and I'm going to try to calibrate. But first, I'm going to ask the experts around here for help

Cuong · July 26, 2008

zoeblue wrote:

Thanks Lynne! I just the Eye-One Display 2 and I'm going to try to calibrate. But first, I'm going to ask the experts around here for help

Make sure to download the latest version (3.6.2) of Eye-One Match 3. When calibrating, select the Advanced option and follow the instructions on the right side of the screen.

Cuong

Another new monitor thread.

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