softbox question

chrismoore · August 31, 2009

Hi, I'd like to set up an entry level lighting area in my house using a backdrop and one or two softboxes. Currently I have a Canon 580EX and Vivitar flashes with remote triggers and if I set them up off camera I mount them to an old tripod using the multiclamp mount. I would like to add an inexpensive softbox, using these strobes as the lighting source, such as this one. I know most of these are designed to use with monobloc strobes, but I was wondering if it would be relatively easy to use my 580 and vivitar instead. Would I expect the softbox to fit into the multiclamp, or are there additional parts/adaptors I need to look into in order to make it fit?
Thanks

aktse · August 31, 2009

Did you look into the lastolight ezbox? It isn't cheap, but it's made for the small flashes.

I believe lastolight has some videos of it in action.

Art Scott · August 31, 2009

chrismoore wrote:

Hi, I'd like to set up an entry level lighting area in my house using a backdrop and one or two softboxes. Currently I have a Canon 580EX and Vivitar flashes with remote triggers and if I set them up off camera I mount them to an old tripod using the multiclamp mount. I would like to add an inexpensive softbox, using these strobes as the lighting source, such as this one. I know most of these are designed to use with monobloc strobes, but I was wondering if it would be relatively easy to use my 580 and vivitar instead. Would I expect the softbox to fit into the multiclamp, or are there additional parts/adaptors I need to look into in order to make it fit?
Thanks

DIY

LUMIQUEST AT BH......I have been using the Lumiquest Softbox for many many many many years...........

ziggy53 · August 31, 2009

Chris,

The softbox you linked is designed to mount onto a studio flash head and the flash head would mount onto a light stand. What you need instead is either a specially designed softbox which has its own mount directly onto a stand and then holds the speed light, or you you can DIY your own adapter.

I strongly recommend an actual light stand instead of a tripod because for many (if not most) lighting setups you need to position the light higher than a tripod can normally reach.

Instead of a softbox you might consider a Softlighter and an umbrella bracket to adapt everything onto a standard light stand. If not the Softlighter then a combination reflective/shoot-through umbrella.

A typical speedlight recommendation list:

http://www.adorama.com/searchsite/default.aspx?searchinfo=softlighter
(Choose the largest size you can afford. The marked size is the length across the splines on the back and is not as large as it might seem. The 60" is what I recommend. Some of the versions have a partially removable stem, very useful for putting the light closer to the subject.)

http://www.adorama.com/LTUSH.html
(This adapter includes the cold flash shoe. Some don't.)

http://www.adorama.com/LTSP10AC.html
(I recommend the 10' stand because if you ever need to shoot in a church, for instance, 10' will yield enough height to partially compensate for the slope of the church. The base is also a bit broader to allow better stability even at lower heights. The air-cushioning is fairly important and I highly recommend it.)

Add a slave of your choice, unless your flash has a slaving capability.

ChatKat · August 31, 2009

Photoflex
I have a couple of Photoflex extra small softboxes that are made for speedlights of any kind. You attach the speedlight right to the box and you can use a tripod but Ziggy is right - a lightstand is the best option for these. They are about $50 and are really easy to setup. I like them better than umbrellas because the light is softer and more directional.

chrismoore · August 31, 2009

Thanks Ziggy et al. The clamp you linked looks like the same multiclamp I already have. So if I get the Softlighter and lightstand I would be able to mount it with the 580ex using the clamp? It's hard to tell from the photo with the speedlight already mounted.

chrismoore · August 31, 2009

A semi related question (I feel silly asking this): I hear many times about purchasing the seamless paper backgrounds at lowes or home depot, but when I stopped by today and asked the employee where it was he looked at me like I was crazy. Is it known by another name at these stores?
Thanks

ziggy53 · August 31, 2009

chrismoore wrote:

Thanks Ziggy et al. The clamp you linked looks like the same multiclamp I already have. So if I get the Softlighter and lightstand I would be able to mount it with the 580ex using the clamp? It's hard to tell from the photo with the speedlight already mounted.

As long as your version has a cold shoe, it looks like they are virtually identical.

ziggy53 · August 31, 2009

chrismoore wrote:

A semi related question (I feel silly asking this): I hear many times about purchasing the seamless paper backgrounds at lowes or home depot, but when I stopped by today and asked the employee where it was he looked at me like I was crazy. Is it known by another name at these stores?
Thanks

The only place I've found seamless background paper in widths designed for photography is at genuine photo supply houses. For some product display shots where I needed something cheap and disposable in long lengths, I've used white table covers, but it doesn't come in widths designed for general people photography.

chrismoore · August 31, 2009

ziggy53 wrote:

The only place I've found seamless background paper in widths designed for photography is at genuine photo supply houses. For some product display shots where I needed something cheap and disposable in long lengths, I've used white table covers, but it doesn't come in widths designed for general people photography.

Thanks, they do have a variety at Adorama but because it it so heavy the shipping alone is over $100 for two rolls!

ziggy53 · August 31, 2009

See if any of these places are within driving distance and call them to see if they have what you want:

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=%2Bphotographic+%2Bsupply+%2Bflorida&aq=f&oq=&aqi=

Also art supply stores may have what you want.

kdog · September 11, 2009

ziggy53 wrote:

Instead of a softbox you might consider a Softlighter and an umbrella bracket to adapt everything onto a standard light stand. If not the Softlighter then a combination reflective/shoot-through umbrella.

A typical speedlight recommendation list:

http://www.adorama.com/searchsite/default.aspx?searchinfo=softlighter
(Choose the largest size you can afford. The marked size is the length across the splines on the back and is not as large as it might seem. The 60" is what I recommend. Some of the versions have a partially removable stem, very useful for putting the light closer to the subject.)

Based on this recommendation, I bought the 60" Softlighter from B&H, and ended up sending it back. My issue mainly dealt with the two piece "8mm" shaft. That's a bit of a lie actually. The main shaft through the umbrella is 8mm. However, the extension shaft, the portion that goes into the clamp, is only 7mm. The first thing I noticed after opening the umbrella is how much play there was in the connection between the 8mm and 7mm portions. It was wobbly and felt like it was going to fall apart. After playing with it for a while, I discovered the extension is screwed into the main shaft. The fit was so sloppy that I could actually pull the extension straight out of the threads without unscrewing it. Unacceptable. The other thing I discovered was that the Impact clamp I purchased, which was the recommended by B&H for this item, wouldn't even tighten down as small as 7mm. 7mm is extremely thin and bows significantly from the weight of the umbrella. My cheapy umbrella that I own has a much thicker shaft than that and weighs just a fraction of what the 5' Softlighter weighs. I don't consider myself to be a picky shopper, but this was unacceptable. In fact, this is the first thing I've ever returned to B&H after dozens of purchases. I will say that B&H made the return as painless as possible.

Anyway, I'd be curious to hear from Ziggy if he's noted these problems.

Regards,
-joel

Art Scott · September 11, 2009

kdog wrote:

Based on this recommendation, I bought the 60" Softlighter from B&H, and ended up sending it back. My issue mainly dealt with the two piece "8mm" shaft. That's a bit of a lie actually. The main shaft through the umbrella is 8mm. However, the extension shaft, the portion that goes into the clamp, is only 7mm. The first thing I noticed after opening the umbrella is how much play there was in the connection between the 8mm and 7mm portions. It was wobbly and felt like it was going to fall apart. After playing with it for a while, I discovered the extension is screwed into the main shaft. The fit was so sloppy that I could actually pull the extension straight out of the threads without unscrewing it. Unacceptable. The other thing I discovered was that the Impact clamp I purchased, which was the recommended by B&H for this item, wouldn't even tighten down as small as 7mm. 7mm is extremely thin and bows significantly from the weight of the umbrella. My cheapy umbrella that I own has a much thicker shaft than that and weighs just a fraction of what the 5' Softlighter weighs. I don't consider myself to be a picky shopper, but this was unacceptable. In fact, this is the first thing I've ever returned to B&H after dozens of purchases. I will say that B&H made the return as painless as possible.

Anyway, I'd be curious to hear from Ziggy if he's noted these problems.

Regards,
-joel

Was this a sealed box item?? If so it maybe a fluke that the mfg'ers QA did not catch or that a supervisor said let it go to meet min. productivity requirements and BH prob. had no clue.......
I agree it is unacceptable.....unacceptable for the mfg'er.....not BH.........................

kdog · September 11, 2009

Art Scott wrote:

Was this a sealed box item?? If so it maybe a fluke that the mfg'ers QA did not catch or that a supervisor said let it go to meet min. productivity requirements and BH prob. had no clue.......
I agree it is unacceptable.....unacceptable for the mfg'er.....not BH.........................

Agreed, almost. Even if the shaft was ok, the B&H suggested clamp for this item will not clamp down tightly against a 7mm shaft. The screw threads on the clamp are not long enough to clamp something so thin. Here's a link to the page on B&H. Scroll down a bit, and you'll see the clamp they suggest with this item. http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/75852-REG/Photek_SL_6000_Umbrella_Softlighter_II.html
That clamp doesn't work with this item, and that problem lies squarely with B&H.

It looked like a sealed box item. It also possible it was a returned item, and the shaft connection was damaged by somebody else. Still, I maintain it's a chintzy design.

angevin1 · September 12, 2009

Sorry to come to the table so late~

I bought and use these products and have been fully satisfied with them all~ I use them with my SB6/800 flashguns.

http://www.adorama.com/PTSL607.html?searchinfo=Photek

http://www.adorama.com/LTUSH.html

And for backdrop material this:

http://www.materialconcepts.com/store/index.php?crn=207&rn=15&action=show_detail

kdog · September 13, 2009

angevin1 wrote:

Sorry to come to the table so late~

I bought and use these products and have been fully satisfied with them all~ I use them with my SB6/800 flashguns.

http://www.adorama.com/PTSL607.html?searchinfo=Photek

http://www.adorama.com/LTUSH.html

And for backdrop material this:

http://www.materialconcepts.com/store/index.php?crn=207&rn=15&action=show_detail

So you got the 7mm shaft? Is that one long shaft with no extension then? And you're telling me that it doesn't bow from the weight of the umbrella?

angevin1 · September 13, 2009

kdog wrote:

So you got the 7mm shaft? Is that one long shaft with no extension then? And you're telling me that it doesn't bow from the weight of the umbrella?

Yes. I just went and measured it with my digital vernier calipers and it measures 7.09mm However, it is a two piece shaft. I use it with both in place..I tried it without the extension and I prefer to have the adjustablility with the extension in place. My rig tends to mount and be mounted just an inch or two distal to where the extension connects. Yes. I'm telling you that Mine doesn't bow, hasn't bowed. But mine is not the brand mentioned or suggested by others above. Mine is a Photek.

kdog · September 13, 2009

Thanks for the info, Tom. The unit from B&H is the Photek Softlighter II SL6000, 8mm shaft. The Adorama unit is the Phototek Softlighter II SL6000S, which has a 7mm shaft. As I mentioned earlier, my unit had an 8mm portion going through the umbrella and a poorly fitting 7mm extension (6.92mm as measured with a digital caliper).

OK, I now realize what the problem was. My 8mm unit was mistakenly shipped with a 7mm extension shaft. That's why they mated so poorly, wobbled, and pulled apart without unscrewing. The flex I mentioned probably all came from that wobbly joint now that I think about it. And, if the shaft was 8mm like it was supposed to be, it would most likely work with the clamp from B&H, which looks identical to the Adorama clamp BTW. Sounds like I just need to reorder one and hope it's not defective as well.

So one more question for you if I may. The 60" was pretty huge. Would you go with that size again? I'm almost thinking of getting a smaller one. I have a friend with a similar unit who says the smaller ones are better for controlling light-falloff. The smaller ones also come with tinted disks for controlling color that the 60" units don't have.

Thanks again for you input and helping me solve my Photek mystery.

-joel

angevin1 · September 14, 2009

kdog wrote:

Thanks for the info, Tom. The unit from B&H is the Photek Softlighter II SL6000, 8mm shaft. The Adorama unit is the Phototek Softlighter II SL6000S, which has a 7mm shaft. As I mentioned earlier, my unit had an 8mm portion going through the umbrella and a poorly fitting 7mm extension (6.92mm as measured with a digital caliper).

OK, I now realize what the problem was. My 8mm unit was mistakenly shipped with a 7mm extension shaft. That's why they mated so poorly, wobbled, and pulled apart without unscrewing. The flex I mentioned probably all came from that wobbly joint now that I think about it. And, if the shaft was 8mm like it was supposed to be, it would most likely work with the clamp from B&H, which looks identical to the Adorama clamp BTW. Sounds like I just need to reorder one and hope it's not defective as well.

So one more question for you if I may. The 60" was pretty huge. Would you go with that size again? I'm almost thinking of getting a smaller one. I have a friend with a similar unit who says the smaller ones are better for controlling light-falloff. The smaller ones also come with tinted disks for controlling color that the 60" units don't have.

Thanks again for you input and helping me solve my Photek mystery.

-joel

Wow Joel, Unbelievable story. I'm not certain I would have recognized that issue if mine had had it. Sounds like I may have gotten lucky.

I went back and found my original order and it is a Photek softlighter II 54" so I see the marketing hyperbole has grown (60" vs. 54"). Which of course measures 46 inches across the face. Also, mine did come with the two disc's for adding silver or gold.

I like the size of it, but haven't put it to much use lately. As for controlling light/light spill, I'd say one could possibly modify it by giving it a bit of a skirt. An idea I toyed with, but haven't done. If I had it to do over again, hind sight included, I'd order a soft box and bracket. Otherwise, I think the size is nice and I can tell you I like the light from it, with my speedlight. SO YES, I think this size has a purpose: Nice, even light with wrap around effect.

On a similar note. I did an engagement shoot yesterday, and while I've been getting away with on camera scoops and such, I built a 12x12 inch softbox for my speedlight. I put it on a stick for my assistant and was amazed at how much light coverage of two people I could get as well as how easy to control that light....12x12...

Thanks~

ziggy53 · September 16, 2009

kdog wrote:

...

Anyway, I'd be curious to hear from Ziggy if he's noted these problems.

Regards,
-joel

I decided to get off the pot and order one for myself. I ordered from B&H, the 60" with split shaft, and it came today.

Construction is pretty good and the shaft is tight at the junction and there is no wobble when the removable section is screwed onto the base. The removable part is slightly smaller in diameter and I'll check out the fit onto 2 types of umbrella brackets tomorrow. This model is designed to clamp onto the base rod at any rate.

The Softlighter did not include filter disks, but it did not claim to include them. Indeed there is a single explanation sheet to explain assembly and they state that the filter disks don't work on this model.

In short, so far so good.

kdog · September 17, 2009

ziggy53 wrote:

Construction is pretty good and the shaft is tight at the junction and there is no wobble when the removable section is screwed onto the base. The removable part is slightly smaller in diameter...

Well that's good, it sounds like it doesn't have the problem mine had. I could pull the extension rod straight out of the threads without unscrewing it. If you have a caliper, I'd be interested in knowing the diameter of the extension shaft.

Pretty huge, isn't it.

Cheers,
-joel

chrismoore · September 17, 2009

kdog wrote:

Well that's good, it sounds like it doesn't have the problem mine had. I could pull the extension rod straight out of the threads without unscrewing it. If you have a caliper, I'd be interested in knowing the diameter of the extension shaft.

Pretty huge, isn't it.

Cheers,
-joel

I purchased the same one from B&H based on the recommendation in this thread. I attached the umbrella holder to the thicker section of the rod and it is fairly sturdy (I'm using the Adorama multiclamp mount I linked in the first post of this thread). My only issue is that umbrella screw and threaded in plastic and it is impossible to really screw it down tight. I'm using it with my 580 EXII speedlight and am very satisfied with the lighting it produces.

Justiceiro · September 17, 2009

re: the OP's question about a cheap in home stuido, with flashguns alone (i/e/ no expensive strobes). I've been using the lumiquest softbox III with great results. I usually combine it with an umbrella from the other angle and it works great.

I'm using a Mecablitz, a Vivitar 285, the softbox, and an umbrella, and it all came out to about 200 Euros. That's not too bad. Here's how the results look:

Even a large and relatively dark area can be well lit.

Best of all, the gear fits entirely, with my cameras, into a Hakuba case for the stands and an f65 backpack. It's extremely light and portable should you decide to take it on the road.

I can't really see using one of those large softboxes unless you have an actual strobe.

ziggy53 · September 18, 2009

kdog wrote:

Well that's good, it sounds like it doesn't have the problem mine had. I could pull the extension rod straight out of the threads without unscrewing it. If you have a caliper, I'd be interested in knowing the diameter of the extension shaft.

Pretty huge, isn't it.

Cheers,
-joel

I was going to show both readings in the same image, of the fixed shaft and the extension in the same image, but it required too large an image to show the detail. (Apologies for the poor images but it's been a long day and I'm too tired to do it properly.)

Here is the "extension" measurement:

... and here is the fixed section measurement:

So I measure the extension at just under 7 mm and the fixed section at just over 8 mm.

The extension does not get clamped by either the Adorama or the Impact umbrella bracket, but the fixed shaft grabs fine enough. I will mostly use mine without the extension because I want the modifier fairly close to the subject, so the extension might get into the image and it's safer without the extension as well.

I measure 56" across the face of the Softlighter and 67" across the back.

kdog · September 19, 2009

Pinhole camera?

Thanks, Ziggy. So the 8mm shaft comes with a 7mm extension. I still think that weird, but if you're never planning on placing the extension portion in the clamp, then maybe that's OK.

I dunno, maybe I'll order a replacement for the one I returned. Although, I'll probably get the next size down.

Cheers,
-joel

softbox question

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