Mma

GadgetRick · July 25, 2010

July is always dry around here for MMA for some reason. The next show isn't until August 6. Unfortunately, it was supposed to be a week sooner (I have a couple of guys fighting on that card) and they moved it. We had already planned a vacation during that time. Ugh!

Got a show or two in August and a bunch after that. I'm itching to shoot more fights....

SnapLocally · July 25, 2010

I actually took these a few months ago. I think I'm done with MMA altogether. Promoters don't pay, fighters don't buy, other "photographers" give their work away. There's no shortage of events for me to cover, I'm just opting to not cover them anymore unless I'm paid to shoot.

GadgetRick · July 25, 2010

Promoters certainly don't pay. I've been able to sell some photos/discs to the fighters, gyms, etc. Not enough to get rich off of but starting to make enough to make it worth my while anyway. It is a tough way to make money though...

SnapLocally · July 25, 2010

Yeah, that's the key- finding the events to make it worth your while. Unfortunately most events in my area don't fit the bill. There are a select few promotions that pay me what I'm asking, but the days where I shoot everything available to me and make sales on spec are over.

20DNoob · July 25, 2010

Sucks to hear Snaps, you always had some of the best MMA pics.

It's pretty much dried up around here for the most part, I was able to get in with a gym owner and a promoter for some stuff for one of the classes I was taking so it was really cool. The spot they fought at didn't have a bad seat in the house and had a balcony for some nice overhead shots. Another outfit moved into the area and pretty much took over and moved the fight location to a huge sports complex, meanwhile the gym I was in with moved so most of the fighters training dropped out just like the owner thought would happen.

One huge poop sandwich any way you look at it.

SnapLocally · July 25, 2010

Thanks.

I don't necessarily see dropping the non-guaranteed pay dates as a bad thing. Once upon a time I could rely on money coming from shooting on spec, but these days it's only a 50/50 proposition on a good day with sports like MMA and kickboxing. With boxing it's more like a 20% chance of making anything- it certainly can be fun and challenging to shoot, but it generally doesn't pay. So unless that changes, bye bye to boxing, too.

Zerodog · July 26, 2010

The one I did was a weird deal too. The promoter was hot for event shots and I delivered what I thought he wanted and got nothing and no feed back either.

It was a blast going and doing the event though. I would do another for sure if there was a bit of money involved. It was a ton of work. The arena was really big and I just walked my ass off all night. I was tired for the rest of the weekend.

toybreaker71 · July 27, 2010

Snap Locally - Great shots man. #3 I think really captures the raw intensity these fighters have.

Sorry to hear all the negative stories of this segment of sports being not so great for photography as a business. I am just learning the ins and outs myself of sports in general and this kind of info is certainly helpful. Thanks

GadgetRick · July 28, 2010

What I'm finding is sports photography is tough but you can make money at it. You have to be a sales person (something I've done for 17 years so it comes naturally to me) and go after the sales. Most photogs I know aren't good at doing this part of the business.

I'm building a small (but lucrative) business for MMA photos in my area. I think the area may have something to do with it as well (I'm just outside of NYC and cover NJ, NY, PA and CT). So there may be a little more money here but I don't know that for sure.

Also, some schools will buy photos of their fighters, sponsors will also buy photos often.

Again, I'm not saying it's easy, it's not. Takes a lot of work--I'm working hard to build a name for myself. It's also not a HUGE amount of money. It's a little here, a little there, etc. But it adds up.

I also just did my first league shoot (soccer league). Tough gigs to get but, if you do, they're very profitable. They're a bit crazy during the shoot with all of the kids but it's worth it (for me).

SnapLocally · July 29, 2010

I can't say I haven't made decent money with MMA- I've had $300, $500, even a $700 payday (through a series of sales from one event)- above and beyond what any of the other photographers in my area have made. But those days are gone. Even though my skills have much improved since the early days and I have more exposure than ever, these new crop of guys aren't spending. They'll gladly snatch up whatever I put out there and slap it on their Facebook page though.

At one time I was really hungry and very driven to make something out of this, but there comes a time to look at the big picture and evaluate what this business means, what is and is not working, and the direction the future of this industry is going. I can live without promoters paying me- most have never spent a dime anyhow. But like I said, fighters aren't spending now either, and to make an even worse mess of things is the number of "photographers" showing up to the events, most of whom merely give their work away just to be noticed. All things considered, I'm just not as interested in covering these events as I used to be.

toybreaker71 wrote: »

Sorry to hear all the negative stories of this segment of sports being not so great for photography as a business. I am just learning the ins and outs myself of sports in general and this kind of info is certainly helpful. Thanks

Man, let me tell you how it is-

In my first 2 years of shooting fights I was blackballed from 2 promotions plus a venue for refusing to hand over my work.

Magazines and newspapers don't want to pay for anything either. I had to argue with an editor of TapouT magazine to get paid- they supposedly "didn't have it in their budget to pay for photography". The problem was they came to ME for work. I called them on their bullshit, and we negotiated a price, though in retrospect I should've asked for twice what I got paid, and held out for it.

What's really sad is when a casino can't cough up $250 for the event shots they're looking for. I shot ShoBox and Fox Sports North fights at this venue, and they wanted to know what I wanted for my work. I name my price, and they never got back to me.

More recently I had a promotion decide that they no longer wanted to pay me... because they're getting free work elsewhere.

Just a few weeks ago I had a promoter "hire" me to shoot his event. I've covered his events before on spec, but this was the first time he was offering me money. I figured it was a good thing that he was, because I didn't plan on covering his event otherwise- it's 70 miles away, and the last time I went there I didn't make a dime in sales. The first problem was I stupidly agreed to shoot this event without asking what he was paying. I later found out that it was half of what I would've like to have made, but I kept my word that I'd be there. I find out only days before the event that the owner/promoter is now also headlining in his own main event. And the result was the scheduled 12 round "fight" was a work- his opponent took a dive in 45 seconds of round 1. When it was all said and done, it didn't really matter what price I agreed to shoot for- he didn't plan on paying me anything. When I went to collect my money "oops, we ran out of cash... oops, we ran out of checks, too... will you be at the post-fight party? I'll pay you there... oops, I forgot my checks again, I'll pay you at the hotel in the morning...". It was all bullshit. The only part of the weekend that worked out for me was when his brother called me (he couldn't be there) to see if I was there taking photos. I explained the situation, and he paid me in full.

I could go on and on with lowball offers, non-paydays, insider industry dirt, "photographer wars"- I could probably fill a book with my my experiences of the last 4 years alone.

SUMGUY · August 1, 2010

SnapLocally wrote: »

I can't say I haven't made decent money with MMA- I've had $300, $500, even a $700 payday (through a series of sales from one event)- above and beyond what any of the other photographers in my area have made. But those days are gone. Even though my skills have much improved since the early days and I have more exposure than ever, these new crop of guys aren't spending. They'll gladly snatch up whatever I put out there and slap it on their Facebook page though.

At one time I was really hungry and very driven to make something out of this, but there comes a time to look at the big picture and evaluate what this business means, what is and is not working, and the direction the future of this industry is going. I can live without promoters paying me- most have never spent a dime anyhow. But like I said, fighters aren't spending now either, and to make an even worse mess of things is the number of "photographers" showing up to the events, most of whom merely give their work away just to be noticed. All things considered, I'm just not as interested in covering these events as I used to be.

Man, let me tell you how it is-

In my first 2 years of shooting fights I was blackballed from 2 promotions plus a venue for refusing to hand over my work.

Magazines and newspapers don't want to pay for anything either. I had to argue with an editor of TapouT magazine to get paid- they supposedly "didn't have it in their budget to pay for photography". The problem was they came to ME for work. I called them on their bullshit, and we negotiated a price, though in retrospect I should've asked for twice what I got paid, and held out for it.

What's really sad is when a casino can't cough up $250 for the event shots they're looking for. I shot ShoBox and Fox Sports North fights at this venue, and they wanted to know what I wanted for my work. I name my price, and they never got back to me.

More recently I had a promotion decide that they no longer wanted to pay me... because they're getting free work elsewhere.

Just a few weeks ago I had a promoter "hire" me to shoot his event. I've covered his events before on spec, but this was the first time he was offering me money. I figured it was a good thing that he was, because I didn't plan on covering his event otherwise- it's 70 miles away, and the last time I went there I didn't make a dime in sales. The first problem was I stupidly agreed to shoot this event without asking what he was paying. I later found out that it was half of what I would've like to have made, but I kept my word that I'd be there. I find out only days before the event that the owner/promoter is now also headlining in his own main event. And the result was the scheduled 12 round "fight" was a work- his opponent took a dive in 45 seconds of round 1. When it was all said and done, it didn't really matter what price I agreed to shoot for- he didn't plan on paying me anything. When I went to collect my money "oops, we ran out of cash... oops, we ran out of checks, too... will you be at the post-fight party? I'll pay you there... oops, I forgot my checks again, I'll pay you at the hotel in the morning...". It was all bullshit. The only part of the weekend that worked out for me was when his brother called me (he couldn't be there) to see if I was there taking photos. I explained the situation, and he paid me in full.

I could go on and on with lowball offers, non-paydays, insider industry dirt, "photographer wars"- I could probably fill a book with my my experiences of the last 4 years alone.

This sounds like Australia! I'm only in my second year of shooting fights here and I'm over it. Anyone who has a camera is now at every event and giving away their work for free, the magazines wont pay because they get shots off the "want to be noticed guys" for nothing. I say let them have the work and let them find out the hard way how much work is involved for very little return. We just had Hector Lombard here, I was shooting away and one of the "new photographers" asks me "why are you shooting him, who is he". He will go far in this game!
It will be sad not to see so many of your awesome images Snaplocally, I have learned a lot from your work, but I fully understand what you are saying.

cheers, Scott

SnapLocally · August 1, 2010

Thanks Scott. I'm not out of the game yet though. Hopefully I won't have to be. There's still a few honest promoters out there, and a few fighters that hire me. I'm just going to pick and choose my spots.

I shot these on Saturday. I only stayed at the venue until the fight I was hired to shoot was up, and gladly took off when it was over:

SUMGUY · August 2, 2010

Good to hear that you will still be shooting some shows.
I like number 5 in this last series, it's good to see different fight shots that arent the normal pose or connecting punch.

cheers, Scott

SnapLocally · August 2, 2010

Yeah, I wasn't all about work this event, that's for sure. I took 300 shots total- less than a third of what I'd otherwise take. I figured I'd just relax and take a few "artsy" shots. I've grown a little tired of making these guys all look like heros just so they can find my work, steal their shot, post it on Facebook, and buy nothing in the process.

Mma

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