Still stuck in a RUT.

gratefulsugaree · August 9, 2010

I am at a lost...I do not know anything about trying to market myself, Portfolio's, Pricing, uggg....really basically anything.
I have been reading everything for the past 2-3 years, and still feel very unknowable about everything.

I am a decent photographer ...I can get the shots. The problem comes in only after that.

The person (mag) I shoot for, doesn't even say thank you anymore. I have Never even got paid. I would love too...but it doesn't seem to work out.Ever.

So i am trying my best to find a reason to even keep going. I LOVE doing it. I just wish someone would acknowledge me. Even if to just say thank you.

Thoughts on this??? It sure would help if I had friends who did this...but I do not.

gratefulsugaree · August 9, 2010

Also I don't know if I put this in the right section or not. Sorry if I didn't. Not really use to forums.

Feel free to move my whining section elsewhere if need be.

ColoradoSkier · August 9, 2010

Sounds to me like the first thing you need to do is figure out what you hope to achieve through your photography. Then you start to build the image of what the business should be, etc.

gratefulsugaree · August 9, 2010

I hope to achieve happiness through Photography... To make people Smile... To make people say I remember that!
As far as money goes enough to cover what i spend would be a great start. It's hard to do what i do without any kind of comp.Or like I said, not even a thank you.

I know what i want to achieve....getting there is the hard part.

www.jenleeimages.com

Mark my Words One day i will Work with these folks!
http://www.backstagegallery.com/home.html

Gitzo · August 9, 2010

From looking at your work it looks like you have been paid with "experience". Which I think should be illegal btw. Folks to often take advantage of talent. You got an eye and you have passion. Sounds like you need a plan. Take a look at the99percent.com website and maybe take a look at the book that goes along with the website. I am the worst at making my ideas come to life. And I have tons of them. But, this book is written with the creative person in mind. The other bit of advice I have is contacts. Make lots of them and stay in contact with them. Every job I have had as a television photojournalist and now field producer came from knowing some one.

I wish you the best of luck,

John

Photog4Christ · August 9, 2010

I just looked at your site and I have some initial observations:

1) YOUR IMAGES ROCK!!!!!!!!!!!!

2) Please take the "PROOF" watermark out of the center of the image, it detracts and distracts.

3) Your banner says "Made with...." and "Hosted by..." IMHO, it makes you look amateurish.

4) Instead of email@yahoo.com you should use your domain. (you're paying for it!)

5) Consider having a custom Smug site made so it looks a little more professional.

(because like I said... YOUR IMAGES ROCK!!!!!!!)

chuckinsocal · August 9, 2010

I agree with pretty much everything everybody said, but I think ColoradoSkier and Gitzo hit the nail right on the head: You need some goals, plans, a sense of who you want to be and who you want to make smile and create memories for. Essentially, you have to choose an audience then do what you can with your photography to make those people smile. Over time, you'll become well known in the circles you choose then maybe start charging for personal sessions, events, and the like if you want to. Make sure the people in the circles you choose know what you are doing and give them a card with your web site address and invite them to take a look. I'll probably be burned at the stake by other DGrinners for saying this, but you might even invite them to download some images for free to use as desktop wallpaper or send to friends and family.

Tennessee is an absolutely gorgeous state and I sure there are an abundance of opportunities for landscape and other scenes photography.
Have some of those printed up and maybe sell them at local fairs or other community events or tourist locations.

I'm pretty much rambling off the top of my head, but again, I think you need to come up with some kind of plan and start executing that plan. Sure, some people will take you for granted or try to take advantage of you, but the better known you get, the less that will happen.

Good luck and hopefully one day you'll come back and let us know how well your doing.

W.W. Webster · August 9, 2010

gratefulsugaree wrote: »

I am at a lost...I do not know anything about trying to market myself....

I am a decent photographer ...I can get the shots. The problem comes in only after that.

So you've sleepwalked into 'business' without basic business plans and fundamentals in place? As a basic concept, marketing occurs before delivery!

gratefulsugaree · August 9, 2010

Photog4Christ wrote: »

I just looked at your site and I have some initial observations:

1) YOUR IMAGES ROCK!!!!!!!!!!!!

2) Please take the "PROOF" watermark out of the center of the image, it detracts and distracts.

3) Your banner says "Made with...." and "Hosted by..." IMHO, it makes you look amateurish.

4) Instead of email@yahoo.com you should use your domain. (you're paying for it!)

5) Consider having a custom Smug site made so it looks a little more professional. (because like I said... YOUR IMAGES ROCK!!!!!!!)

1. Thanks!
2. The Huge Proof is on them because I had a band (up and coming) ask for Pictures. I said Yes, and sent them to within 24 hours...but I guess I took to long...and they stole them.
I know it's not full proof but I figured it maybe would help with that issue.
3. I know it does, I hate it. But i am absolutely ridiculous when it comes to this stuff...I tried making one..and well it did not turn out well...Hence the free one with ad's. I am sad, I know. ha!
4. I really had no clue the domain I bought came with an email. Please explain.
5. I have been teetering towards that for awhile now...since apparently I cannot do this on my own.

Thanks for your feedback.

gratefulsugaree · August 9, 2010

Gitzo wrote: »

From looking at your work it looks like you have been paid with "experience". Which I think should be illegal btw. Folks to often take advantage of talent. You got an eye and you have passion. Sounds like you need a plan. Take a look at the99percent.com website and maybe take a look at the book that goes along with the website. I am the worst at making my ideas come to life. And I have tons of them. But, this book is written with the creative person in mind. The other bit of advice I have is contacts. Make lots of them and stay in contact with them. Every job I have had as a television photojournalist and now field producer came from knowing some one.

I wish you the best of luck,

John

I am the worst at making my ideas come to life. <This is me.
I have been paid in experience...I know. But going into year number 4 ...I thought maybe I would have things more together than i do now.

gratefulsugaree · August 9, 2010

chuckinsocal wrote: »

I agree with pretty much everything everybody said, but I think ColoradoSkier and Gitzo hit the nail right on the head: You need some goals, plans, a sense of who you want to be and who you want to make smile and create memories for. Essentially, you have to choose an audience then do what you can with your photography to make those people smile. Over time, you'll become well known in the circles you choose then maybe start charging for personal sessions, events, and the like if you want to. Make sure the people in the circles you choose know what you are doing and give them a card with your web site address and invite them to take a look. I'll probably be burned at the stake by other DGrinners for saying this, but you might even invite them to download some images for free to use as desktop wallpaper or send to friends and family.

Tennessee is an absolutely gorgeous state and I sure there are an abundance of opportunities for landscape and other scenes photography.
Have some of those printed up and maybe sell them at local fairs or other community events or tourist locations.

I'm pretty much rambling off the top of my head, but again, I think you need to come up with some kind of plan and start executing that plan. Sure, some people will take you for granted or try to take advantage of you, but the better known you get, the less that will happen.

Good luck and hopefully one day you'll come back and let us know how well your doing.

You need some goals, plans, a sense of who you want to be and who you want to make smile and create memories for

Goals...I have them. Trust me. I want to be a regular name when people think/talk about concert photo's. To make money doing something I love. To be appreciated. To be sought after.
I know my target area....I know who i want to make smile. Doing it is just hard. But i also know that just cause something is hard doesn't mean quit. I will keep working on it.

I am getting my name out. Cards all that. I have had 3 bands talk about my photo's, putting my name out there. I have artist who routinely check out my photo's and tell me about how great they are. Pretty big bands, who are great musicians. It makes me feel all good/happy inside and out...
But it isn't helping me by any means...

Ugggg... it is my site isn't it?????

I know, it's horrible to look at.
I shall work on it more.

Tennessee is an absolutely gorgeous state and I sure there are an abundance of opportunities for landscape and other scenes photography.
Have some of those printed up and maybe sell them at local fairs or other community events or tourist locations.

Thanks for the idea's!

gratefulsugaree · August 9, 2010

W.W. Webster wrote: »

So you've sleepwalked into 'business' without basic business plans and fundamentals in place? As a basic concept, marketing occurs before delivery!

I wouldn't say sleepwalked. Cause I studied. Hell I still study now. I have learned everything i know by reading and trying.

I shall continue to try.

Art Scott · August 9, 2010

Do not remove the proof....just make it a bit more transparent.......or better yet.......
make a watermark using your web address: www.jenleeimages.com ............also
do not say I'm taking XXXX time off but go ahead and call about XXXXXXXXXXXX
type of shoots......that is not good either.........take the time off....then take it off
and post something like......I am totally booked from XX/XX/2010 thru and including
XX/XX/2010 .....be off don't be partially off......You do have very good photos toi work with....

I do not know who you registered your domain with but if it wasn't GoDaddy then you
should move it to them....with each domain registered or transfered to GoDaddy you
get a few emails for free......so yo0u could easily have yourname@yourdomain.com for your email addy
and look a whole lot more professional and legitimate .....

Good Luck to you.........

gratefulsugaree · August 9, 2010

Art Scott wrote: »

Do not remove the proof....just make it a bit more transparent.......or better yet.......
make a watermark using your web address: www.jenleeimages.com ............also
do not say I'm taking XXXX time off but go ahead and call about XXXXXXXXXXXX
type of shoots......that is not good either.........take the time off....then take it off
and post something like......I am totally booked from XX/XX/2010 thru and including
XX/XX/2010 .....be off don't be partially off......You do have very good photos toi work with....

I do not know who you registered your domain with but if it wasn't GoDaddy then you
should move it to them....with each domain registered or transfered to GoDaddy you
get a few emails for free......so yo0u could easily have yourname@yourdomain.com for your email addy
and look a whole lot more professional and legitimate .....

Good Luck to you.........

Thank you! I did use Go daddy. I am now finding out about that email account.
Guess new biz cards are gonna need to be happening too.

Thanks for the advice!

gratefulsugaree · August 10, 2010

Email is set up. Once it pops up I will use it and see how it goes!

Also I have tried SO many times to get to the link of smugmug to make the PROOF transparent.
It seems to not want to work for me.
I have one with JenLee Images on it...but Adobe always makes it super small...no matter what size I have it set on.
See...my....Problems.

chrisjohnson · August 10, 2010

I just spent 20 minutes looking at how other people in your chosen business are marketing themselves - maybe this a good learning curve for you too, but then you should spend several hours studying the people you admire. Pricing, for example, can be pinned down quickly.

There seems to be a big market for people who want prints to hang on their wall. This also solves the problem of digital downloads.

When you focus on a few artists you probably should approach them to make a deal whereby you run your business with their permission. They probably expect a cut for commercial use of their image but then you can reasonably ask for some co-promotion on their fan sites, facebook site, etc.

In my quick scan I notice this seems to be a very competitive business with people posting work for free on flikr. You need to sort out your difference - uniqueness - and make sure you are behaving legally so you do not get derailed by the first lawyer who comes along.

The web is the marketing vehicle of choice. Perhaps combining a bit of a fan site, blogs about the band or the event, along with pics for sale would work.

When you have already had photos published in magazines then you should follow up to see if you can get paid, either by them or your competition.

Good luck. Sorry I don't know more about this business.

Gitzo · August 10, 2010

There seems to be a big market for people who want prints to hang on their wall. This also solves the problem of digital downloads.

I would be careful with this one. Just because you have a press pass to shoot a concert for a mag or website does not mean you have the image rights to sell beyond the original use.

Your getting lots of great advise on this thread and I hope your finding your way out of the rut.

John

Photog4Christ · August 10, 2010

Art Scott wrote: »

....

I do not know who you registered your domain with but if it wasn't GoDaddy then you
should move it to them....with each domain registered or transfered to GoDaddy you
get a few emails for free......so yo0u could easily have yourname@yourdomain.com for your email addy
and look a whole lot more professional and legitimate .....

.........

You don't have to use GoDaddy in order to have your own e-mail. You own the domain, you can set it up however you wish (my mail is setup on Google Apps).

gratefulsugaree · August 10, 2010

goldenballs wrote: »

I just spent 20 minutes looking at how other people in your chosen business are marketing themselves - maybe this a good learning curve for you too, but then you should spend several hours studying the people you admire. Pricing, for example, can be pinned down quickly.

There seems to be a big market for people who want prints to hang on their wall. This also solves the problem of digital downloads.

When you focus on a few artists you probably should approach them to make a deal whereby you run your business with their permission. They probably expect a cut for commercial use of their image but then you can reasonably ask for some co-promotion on their fan sites, facebook site, etc.

In my quick scan I notice this seems to be a very competitive business with people posting work for free on flikr. You need to sort out your difference - uniqueness - and make sure you are behaving legally so you do not get derailed by the first lawyer who comes along.

The web is the marketing vehicle of choice. Perhaps combining a bit of a fan site, blogs about the band or the event, along with pics for sale would work.

When you have already had photos published in magazines then you should follow up to see if you can get paid, either by them or your competition.

Good luck. Sorry I don't know more about this business.

There are A LOT of folks who do this. Unfortunately a lot of mags use people who are just getting into the biz. It's free for them, so why not?!

behaving legally is something I have to do. I do not sell prints at all of the artist. That's not something i want to deal with.
That is a slippery slope. sigh..... *But see that also plays into my problem. Can't sell, can't use them for really anything*

gratefulsugaree · August 10, 2010

Gitzo wrote: »

I would be careful with this one. Just because you have a press pass to shoot a concert for a mag or website does not mean you have the image rights to sell beyond the original use.

Your getting lots of great advise on this thread and I hope your finding your way out of the rut.

John

Oh I know. Trust me. I'm not wanting any kind of law suites.
Hopefully I can get this website spiffed up (Yikes) and my goal is to get a job with a band, mag, or someone like backstage Gallery.
Most bands who look at my photo's are very impressed...but like i said that hasn't helped me land a job.

gratefulsugaree · August 10, 2010

I am gonna try my hand on making a new banner. If Photoshop will listen to me this time and not make it to small. Still having troubles with my watermark...

gratefulsugaree · August 10, 2010

Also I am really enjoying everyone's input. It is Appreciated!

Gitzo · August 10, 2010

Another market you might look at is shooting Album art for bands in your area. But charge them at least a sitting fee to cover your time. Then fee for each shot they want to license.

Keep at it!

Art Scott · August 10, 2010

Photog4Christ wrote: »

You don't have to use GoDaddy in order to have your own e-mail. You own the domain, you can set it up however you wish (my mail is setup on Google Apps).

I was just guiding to the fact that with GoDady you get several free email addys that are tied directly to the domain...included in the domain hosting cost ..... so one might as well use them rahter than a hotmail or yahoo or gmail or lycos or other "generic" email addy....to me it just looks so much more professional.......if there is another way to get same addy, YOURCOMPANY@yourcompany.com .......please post the links...I am by no means a guru ....

gratefulsugaree · August 10, 2010

You are now looking at JennyCrowder@JenLeeImages.com!!!!!!! Wootwoot!!! Thanks! I would have Never known they gave me a free one. Yes, I know..I should have known that, but i didn't!

chuckinsocal · August 10, 2010

Still having troubles with my watermark...

There's a really good tutorial here on creating a watermark that will be placed in exactly the right place in exactly the right size every single time. It's not nearly as complicated as the article makes it seem. I reduced the process down to an action so all I do is press F7 and the watermark is placed, manually adjust the opacity if needed, then F8 flattens and saves the image. I have several F keys set up for different watermarks. It's really quick and it makes life really easy.

sweet caroline · August 10, 2010

Gitzo wrote: »

Another market you might look at is shooting Album art for bands in your area. But charge them at least a sitting fee to cover your time. Then fee for each shot they want to license.

Keep at it!

THIS is what I was going to say! Get some good edgy portraits in your portfolio to go along with you action shots (you can use friends, models, or unknown musicians to build the portfolio). Market yourself directly to the musicians for album art. I have done work for one musician and licensed the images for use in packaging and promotion. If he or anyone else wants to use images for merchandise someday, we'll negotiate that separately.

Caroline

chrisjohnson · August 11, 2010

sweet caroline wrote: »

THIS is what I was going to say! Get some good edgy portraits in your portfolio to go along with you action shots (you can use friends, models, or unknown musicians to build the portfolio). Market yourself directly to the musicians for album art. I have done work for one musician and licensed the images for use in packaging and promotion. If he or anyone else wants to use images for merchandise someday, we'll negotiate that separately.

Caroline

This is great input - especially about getting the "edgy" feel. You need to shoot some iconic images; something all true fans will want on their wall.

You said you had good relations with some bands and this must be the way to go. It is not as easy as it sounds. I would not be looking to "get a job". Most likely they value you as someone who can partner with them on images and develop extra income. When you get good access you can make unique images which they authenticate - you take care of production and distribution. A great image can be used on all sorts of merchandise.

Photog4Christ · August 11, 2010

Art Scott wrote: »

I was just guiding to the fact that with GoDady you get several free email addys that are tied directly to the domain...included in the domain hosting cost ..... so one might as well use them rahter than a hotmail or yahoo or gmail or lycos or other "generic" email addy....to me it just looks so much more professional.......if there is another way to get same addy, YOURCOMPANY@yourcompany.com .......please post the links...I am by no means a guru ....

Sorry, you're right.

Let me rephrase my post.... GoDaddy may be one of the easiest ways to set up your own e-mail, but there is more than one way to skin a cat.

I use Google Apps, which is also free. I'm not going to post a tutorial on using Google Apps because they already have everything spelled out on their help page. You just need to be comfortable editing DNS.

gratefulsugaree · August 17, 2010

goldenballs wrote: »

This is great input - especially about getting the "edgy" feel. You need to shoot some iconic images; something all true fans will want on their wall.

You said you had good relations with some bands and this must be the way to go. It is not as easy as it sounds. I would not be looking to "get a job". Most likely they value you as someone who can partner with them on images and develop extra income. When you get good access you can make unique images which they authenticate - you take care of production and distribution. A great image can be used on all sorts of merchandise.

I look at everyone for jobs. Everyone has Potential to be/know someone/ ect..that could help.
My friends understand this. They Know that I truely Love doing this.
I think you took what i said wrong, anyways...I meant my friends who are on major labels have looked, their people have looked, and I am sure so on and so on... But even that still hasn't gotten me anywhere.
I don't know maybe that didn't/doesn't make sense out loud, but it does in my mind

gratefulsugaree · August 17, 2010

Gitzo wrote: »

Another market you might look at is shooting Album art for bands in your area. But charge them at least a sitting fee to cover your time. Then fee for each shot they want to license.

Keep at it!

I like that. Thanks. I will look into it.
Problem is I live in the Middle of Nowhere.
The closest city i have to me is Laughable.
Unless one of my old moonshining neighbors has a band I don't know about. hehehe...

My location Henders a lot of things I would like to do .

Still stuck in a RUT.

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