Cousins--plus need advise please

lizzard_nyc · August 10, 2010

OK--this is the deal. I'm getting asked more and more to photograph children, families and even weddings in my style. Now although people seem to really like my "slices of life" in black and white, I feel like I also need to do some color. I debated for a while if to post here or "people" but I don't want the perfection that seems to go with "people" flash, reflectors, "clone out the lines, poles bikes" etc. I dont' think I can do perfection, and I don't think I want to, however I am willing to start experimenting with color--is it possible to do this kind of shooting and do it in some color and some black and white? (hope BD isn't reading this :rofl)

Do these work? Not as street so much--but as marketable candids/moments? A marriage of Street and people? I'm all ears and eagerly awaiting your response.

As you can see, even in color my processing is funky--I like it, but....
here goes.

1.

2.

3.

4.

5.

Wil Davis · August 10, 2010

Hi Liz,

Here we go, since you did ask:

#1: The focus is pretty good, but it's on the wrong girl. It might have been an idea to get them both in focus. Also, all the interest is right in the middle; all the stuff at the edges is unnecessary (I say "fill the frame!") ("yar! boo! sucks!" I hear from the peanut gallery!)

#2: Same thing; focus is good, but there's a bloody great pole splitting the picture in two!

…love the tones though, even if the highlights are a bit on the blown side! ("yar! boo! sucks!" I hear from the peanut gallery!)

#3: I don't like vignetting (looks like a mistake…

)
…and they're just a bit too far apart (IMNSHO) ("yar! boo! sucks!" I hear from the peanut gallery!)

#4: Ah! You're starting to get there; …but I dunno about the clipped headlight and top-knot; her face is the centre of interest of the picture, but the headlamp is just that bit too far away from her, and because it's in focus it draws my eye away from her face. Line thingy on the car is distracting also. Dunno about the colour either…

("yar! boo! sucks!" I hear from the peanut gallery!)

#5: Snap snap snap - c'mon Liz, they're not even in focus! (you can do much better!!!!!) ("yar! boo! sucks! etc. etc…)

- Wil

PS: I'm not sure about your colour; I think it's so subtle that it's almost not-there, and I think on the whole I prefer your B&W (it really is getting very good!

)

PPS: I see from your original message that you don't think you can do perfection?

…so what's wrong with striving for perfection? Do you mean that you'll strive for mediocrity? God only knows that the world seems to be full of mediocrity at the moment wherever you look! …you mean you want to add to it????

bfjr · August 10, 2010

I like #4
when I scroll I always stop at #4, I like #4.
Wish I could articulate why better, but I like #4

misterb · August 11, 2010

You can't go wrong with them cuties!

However, if I read the exif correctly, you are using the 25mm pancake lens and you would get *much* better results using the oly 50mm f2.0!

See https://people.ifm.liu.se/jebir/box/bilder/50mm_shoot_out/

This lens is leaps and bounds better than the pancake for what you are trying to do. Even the Sigma 50mm f1.4 would outshine the 25mm pancake.

It's like working on a car- you gotta use the proper tool.

michswiss · August 11, 2010

How to start... I don't think there is any reason to feel you need to change your approach to photography as long as it remains an avocation. People ask me to shoot them because they like what they see when they see my work. I always insist they understand I'm not the person to get the group shots or the structured portraits. No way. If you do this, you need to be able to see it the same way you see a street scene or a close family gathering. They want to see their moments through your eyes. Which is to say, stay yourself.

As to the images, this is a wimpy entry into colour.

They are more duotone and washed out at that. The nice thing about shooting RAW is that the images always start out as colour. But in my opinion it's essential to consider the role of colour in a shot when the primary subject is a person or persons interacting. Just for the heck of it and a bit of practice, I'd like to see something from you that is colourful and contrasty but the story is still human.

22shooter · August 11, 2010

I think 4 is definitely a winner, just like it is, a beautiful shot. In the others, I think you could try to give a bit more consideration to backgrounds when you shoot, maybe try different camera angles to avoid distractions like bikes, benches, chains, bollards, etc. unless they are important to the story. The vignetting in 3 doesn't work for me.

lizzard_nyc · August 11, 2010

Wil Davis wrote: »

Hi Liz,

Here we go, since you did ask:

#1: The focus is pretty good, but it's on the wrong girl. It might have been an idea to get them both in focus. Also, all the interest is right in the middle; all the stuff at the edges is unnecessary (I say "fill the frame!") ("yar! boo! sucks!" I hear from the peanut gallery!)

#2: Same thing; focus is good, but there's a bloody great pole splitting the picture in two!
…love the tones though, even if the highlights are a bit on the blown side! ("yar! boo! sucks!" I hear from the peanut gallery!)

#3: I don't like vignetting (looks like a mistake… )
…and they're just a bit too far apart (IMNSHO) ("yar! boo! sucks!" I hear from the peanut gallery!)

#4: Ah! You're starting to get there; …but I dunno about the clipped headlight and top-knot; her face is the centre of interest of the picture, but the headlamp is just that bit too far away from her, and because it's in focus it draws my eye away from her face. Line thingy on the car is distracting also. Dunno about the colour either… ("yar! boo! sucks!" I hear from the peanut gallery!)

#5: Snap snap snap - c'mon Liz, they're not even in focus! (you can do much better!!!!!) ("yar! boo! sucks! etc. etc…)

- Wil

PS: I'm not sure about your colour; I think it's so subtle that it's almost not-there, and I think on the whole I prefer your B&W (it really is getting very good! )

PPS: I see from your original message that you don't think you can do perfection? …so what's wrong with striving for perfection? Do you mean that you'll strive for mediocrity? God only knows that the world seems to be full of mediocrity at the moment wherever you look! …you mean you want to add to it????

Hi Will,
About the perfection bit--let me see if I can explain better. If I browse through "people", most of the shots are in places that have been scouted and the placement of the subjects is important, this helps with eliminating distractions such as poles, bikes, clutter etc. Also there is a tendency there to really airbrush or make teeth really white or make the eyes really pop etc. That's what I don't want. If say a family hires me to photograph them and I go to their place, their yard or a nearby park beach, my main concern would be to catch the interactions rather than "oh wait, that's perfect, but can you freeze that emotion and move three feet to the right so that I don't have the lightpole in the middle". That lightpole shot for example, the lightpole doesn't bother me, it is part of the scenery.
But I could have done with clipping out some of the bike on the other shot etc.
As to the color--it was definate experimentation on my part.
Maybe I will just go ahead and stick to my b&w, maybe more fitting for this style.

I appreciate your in depth review--I have much thinking to do before my first session. I must pick and route and go with that, and for now I'll stick with what I love:) and the b&w.

Thanks,
Liz A.

lizzard_nyc · August 11, 2010

bfjr wrote: »

I like #4
when I scroll I always stop at #4, I like #4.
Wish I could articulate why better, but I like #4

Benjamin--my favorite as well:)
You wouldn't know it by the shot, but we were surrounded by hundreds of people.

lizzard_nyc · August 11, 2010

misterb wrote: »

You can't go wrong with them cuties!

However, if I read the exif correctly, you are using the 25mm pancake lens and you would get *much* better results using the oly 50mm f2.0!

See https://people.ifm.liu.se/jebir/box/bilder/50mm_shoot_out/

This lens is leaps and bounds better than the pancake for what you are trying to do. Even the Sigma 50mm f1.4 would outshine the 25mm pancake.

It's like working on a car- you gotta use the proper tool.

Misterb-
I'm glad you mentioned that lens because I want it--I shall PM you my mailing address and will eagerly await its arrival

.

I have to make do with what I have for the time being, and I have been thinking in trading in both my kit lenses my muse and some cash in order to get it--but I am also gladly taking donations

, in order to work with the proper tool.

lizzard_nyc · August 11, 2010

michswiss wrote: »

How to start... I don't think there is any reason to feel you need to change your approach to photography as long as it remains an avocation. People ask me to shoot them because they like what they see when they see my work. I always insist they understand I'm not the person to get the group shots or the structured portraits. No way. If you do this, you need to be able to see it the same way you see a street scene or a close family gathering. They want to see their moments through your eyes. Which is to say, stay yourself.

As to the images, this is a wimpy entry into colour. They are more duotone and washed out at that. The nice thing about shooting RAW is that the images always start out as colour. But in my opinion it's essential to consider the role of colour in a shot when the primary subject is a person or persons interacting. Just for the heck of it and a bit of practice, I'd like to see something from you that is colourful and contrasty but the story is still human.

Thanks Jenn,
It was a color experiment which fell flat althoguh it did look good to my eyes, but I'm glad for the consensus here, so that I know which way to go and it's what I'm more comfortable with anyway.

Back to RAW and back to B&W--we'll see if there is a market for me.

lizzard_nyc · August 11, 2010

22shooter wrote: »

I think 4 is definitely a winner, just like it is, a beautiful shot. In the others, I think you could try to give a bit more consideration to backgrounds when you shoot, maybe try different camera angles to avoid distractions like bikes, benches, chains, bollards, etc. unless they are important to the story. The vignetting in 3 doesn't work for me.

Thank 22shooter.
#4 is the winner for me too--I also love #1 but as Will pointed out, the focus on the wrong girl--or at least should have been on both.

Lots to think about.

Liz A.

misterb · August 11, 2010

lizzard_nyc wrote: »

Misterb-
I have been thinking in trading in both my kit lenses my muse and some cash in order to get it--but I am also gladly taking donations , in order to work with the proper tool.

That's just what I did- I traded a 25mm pancake and my 14-42 kit lens for the 50mm. It's funny how my favorite film camera (OM-2n w/50 mm 1.4) was so much similar to the DSLR I now have!

I know what you mean though.. this economy makes *discretionary* spending less discretionary and more fantasy.

At least we don't have to buy film and chemicals to develop!

Cousins--plus need advise please

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