Color on 7D Images

kcui · July 26, 2010

So I took my new 7D out for a spin over weekend. Very impressed with it so far.

When I got home and imported my RAWs into Lightroom, I noticed a stark difference between the 7D RAWs and the RAWs from my older 30D (from which I had upgraded):

Colors on the 7D images seem more vibrant and stick out more (and in my mind seemed to more accurately portray actual color). Images from my 30D looked somewhat dull in comparison.

Has anyone noticed this? Or is my head playing tricks on me? The settings on the two cameras were similar (no use of "profiles" or other camera functions normally used in PP) and the same settings were applied to the images upon importing into LR. Also I was comparing images taken using the same lens, naturally.

divamum · July 26, 2010

Yes - even shooting raw, I find that the 7d tends to be more saturated and vibrant (especially in optimum lighting conditions).

CynthiaM · July 26, 2010

kcui wrote: »

So I took my new 7D out for a spin over weekend. Very impressed with it so far.

When I got home and imported my RAWs into Lightroom, I noticed a stark difference between the 7D RAWs and the RAWs from my older 30D (from which I had upgraded):

Colors on the 7D images seem more vibrant and stick out more (and in my mind seemed to more accurately portray actual color). Images from my 30D looked somewhat dull in comparison.

Has anyone noticed this? Or is my head playing tricks on me? The settings on the two cameras were similar (no use of "profiles" or other camera functions normally used in PP) and the same settings were applied to the images upon importing into LR. Also I was comparing images taken using the same lens, naturally.

Which version of LR are you using? LR 3 has what is calls a new "process" version or a new set of algorithms to process your images. If the 30ds are all from the 2003 process, it's possible that the difference maybe related to how lightroom is processing the images. I upgraded from a 20d to the 7d but the colors look pretty much the same to me.

divamum · July 26, 2010

I noticed the difference as soon as I got my 7d - before I made the switch to LR3 - so I don't think it's that.

final_alarm · July 27, 2010

divamum wrote: »

I noticed the difference as soon as I got my 7d - before I made the switch to LR3 - so I don't think it's that.

Ditto on that . I noticed a very large difference in color between my XSI and my 7D, the 7d had a lot more pop to its color.

Pindy · July 27, 2010

It's meaningless to compare the initial rendering of a RAW file. You are not likely seeing differences in the actual file (or the potential of the RAW file) but the program's initial default rendering as its creators set it up to be. Each camera's file has a profile in any RAW conversion app and all things are not equal. It's a bit like two people looking at two different paintings and expecting them to see the same result.

kcui · July 27, 2010

CynthiaM wrote: »

Which version of LR are you using? LR 3 has what is calls a new "process" version or a new set of algorithms to process your images. If the 30ds are all from the 2003 process, it's possible that the difference maybe related to how lightroom is processing the images. I upgraded from a 20d to the 7d but the colors look pretty much the same to me.

Just upgraded to LR 3, but I reprocessed my older RAWs form the 30D using the 2010 processing with no difference in the color.

kcui · July 27, 2010

Pindy wrote: »

It's meaningless to compare the initial rendering of a RAW file. You are not likely seeing differences in the actual file (or the potential of the RAW file) but the program's initial default rendering as its creators set it up to be. Each camera's file has a profile in any RAW conversion app and all things are not equal. It's a bit like two people looking at two different paintings and expecting them to see the same result.

Is this different than the Camera Calibration profiles in Lightroom, or is this embedded profiles in the RAW data that LR reads on import? In both cases of the camera, when I imported RAWs from the 30D or the 7D, the profile setting in LR was set to Adobe Standard. Additionally, I am not using the "profile" options on camera, but that only applies to JPGs anyway.

Dan7312 · July 27, 2010

Yes, it's the camera calibration profile in LR3. Even if you don't create a profile for your camera, LR uses one of the builtin ones it has, like Adobe Standard. It's similar, in theory, to selecting a picture style in the camera to change how the jpg is produced. For Canon cameras you'll notice that there is a builtin profile corresponding to each picture styles available in the camera.

kcui wrote: »

Is this different than the Camera Calibration profiles in Lightroom, or is this embedded profiles in the RAW data that LR reads on import? In both cases of the camera, when I imported RAWs from the 30D or the 7D, the profile setting in LR was set to Adobe Standard. Additionally, I am not using the "profile" options on camera, but that only applies to JPGs anyway.

Overfocused · July 27, 2010

As well as the LR calibration, it also could be the camera shoots in Adobe RGB and the old camera uses sRGB

kcui · July 27, 2010

If that is the case, the the color differences I am seeing are a result of the camera and not the profile, as I am using Adobe Standard for everything. I don't even have the option of Canon 7D (or Canon 30D) in the drop down list.

kcui · July 27, 2010

Overfocused wrote: »

As well as the LR calibration, it also could be the camera shoots in Adobe RGB and the old camera uses sRGB

I am using sRGB for all of my photos (selectable in the camera menus)

colourbox · July 27, 2010

For raw, sRGB vs Adobe RGB woudn't matter anyway, except maybe for the thumbnail on the back of the camera.

Pindy · July 27, 2010

kcui wrote: »

Is this different than the Camera Calibration profiles in Lightroom, or is this embedded profiles in the RAW data that LR reads on import? In both cases of the camera, when I imported RAWs from the 30D or the 7D, the profile setting in LR was set to Adobe Standard. Additionally, I am not using the "profile" options on camera, but that only applies to JPGs anyway.

I believe the default rendering for each camera is different than the "Camera Calibration" profile, because you can save the default settings for each camera, based on EXIF data. The calibration thing is not based on the develop module's toolset. I may be wrong, but I'm fairly confident.

paddler4 · July 28, 2010

why not try the same comparison using DPP? That might help determine whether differences in LR's rendering for the two cameras is responsible.

Ric Grupe · July 28, 2010

colourbox wrote: »

For raw, sRGB vs Adobe RGB woudn't matter anyway, except maybe for the thumbnail on the back of the camera.

There ya' go!

kcui · July 28, 2010

So I installed and opened said 7D images in DPP, and yes, the images in DPP appear not as saturated as the ones in LR. Even with the older 30D images the photos are more vibrant in LR (not as much so with the 7D), so it must be the way LR is interpreting the RAW data.

Thanks for the input

denisegoldberg · August 10, 2010

I must be missing something...

I just received my 7D, pulled the images into Lightroom 2.6 and was shocked by the images. They are very much over-colored. I processed the same set of photos with DPP, and the difference between Lightroom and DPP is hard to believe. From the comments above it appears that the version of Lightroom doesn't make a difference (although I do plan to update to LR3).

I've never changed anything in Lightroom specific to a camera other than the normal Lightroom updates. Is there something I can (or should) do to get Lightroom's processing back to normal? I'd hate to need to run DPP just to convert the RAW images, although obviously I will if there isn't a Lightroom solution.

--- Denise

ziggy53 · August 10, 2010

denisegoldberg wrote: »

I must be missing something...

I just received my 7D, pulled the images into Lightroom 2.6 and was shocked by the images. They are very much over-colored. I processed the same set of photos with DPP, and the difference between Lightroom and DPP is hard to believe. From the comments above it appears that the version of Lightroom doesn't make a difference (although I do plan to update to LR3).

I've never changed anything in Lightroom specific to a camera other than the normal Lightroom updates. Is there something I can (or should) do to get Lightroom's processing back to normal? I'd hate to need to run DPP just to convert the RAW images, although obviously I will if there isn't a Lightroom solution.

--- Denise

I think you should be to at least Lightroom 2.7, which I believe would be a free upgrade:

http://www.adobe.com/downloads/updates/

denisegoldberg · August 10, 2010

ziggy53 wrote: »

I think you should be to at least Lightroom 2.7, which I believe would be a free upgrade:

http://www.adobe.com/downloads/updates/

Thanks Ziggy, I'll try that when I get home tonight (currently running LR 2.6). I'll post back with the results.

--- Denise

denisegoldberg · August 10, 2010

ziggy53 wrote: »

I think you should be to at least Lightroom 2.7

I checked the Lightroom release info, and the 7D was in Lightroom 2.6. I did upgrade to 2.7 though in the hopes there were some underlying fixes. I reimported a couple of the shots I was unhappy with yesterday, and I still believe that Lightroom is off - specifically in the intensity of the colors. Canon's DPP produces an image that is closer to the actual colors; the photos brought in to LR as RAW look overprocessed.

I do plan to upgrade to LR3. I've seen some articles indicating that the processing of 7D RAW with LR3 is improved, but I've also seen some indications that I'm not alone in preferring the processing produced by DPP.

--- Denise

ziggy53 · August 10, 2010

Perhaps ask your question in the "Finishing School" forum?

denisegoldberg · August 10, 2010

ziggy53 wrote: »

Perhaps ask your question in the "Finishing School" forum?

Thanks Ziggy, I'll do that - I'll do some more playing with the camera this week, then post questions in "Finishing School".

--- Denise

CynthiaM · August 11, 2010

denisegoldberg wrote: »

I must be missing something...

I just received my 7D, pulled the images into Lightroom 2.6 and was shocked by the images. They are very much over-colored. I processed the same set of photos with DPP, and the difference between Lightroom and DPP is hard to believe. From the comments above it appears that the version of Lightroom doesn't make a difference (although I do plan to update to LR3).

I've never changed anything in Lightroom specific to a camera other than the normal Lightroom updates. Is there something I can (or should) do to get Lightroom's processing back to normal? I'd hate to need to run DPP just to convert the RAW images, although obviously I will if there isn't a Lightroom solution.

--- Denise

Denise:

I got the 7d after I upgraded to LR3 and I don't see an over-intensity in color. But one thing I have noticed, and I don't know if this because of a different camera or due to LR3, is for the first time I am able to see a noticeable difference when trying any of the camera calibration modes which simulate if you use a Canon picture style while shooting jpeg. I hardly ever used them before with the 20d/LR2 combo, sometimes now I will use them.

You might try downloading the trial version of LR3. There is a whole new algoritm for processing images; it's referred to as the "process version." You don't have to re-import your images, you can convert to the 2010 process version. If you do a little research or google lightroom 3 process version, I'm sure something will come up instructing you on how to convert your images. Once you have LR3 installed and your images imported try making a virtual copy of a problem image and then update the process version on the virtual copy. It will sit right next to the original with the old process version, making it very easy to switch back and forth to compare. If you like how LR3 processes the images then you can select all of your 7d images and update the process.

If that is not the answer, don't forget that you can always take the saturation and/or vibrancy down and then save that setting as a new import default so that anytime images are imported, they import with those sliders already moved to the left.

Hope that helps.

denisegoldberg · August 11, 2010

CynthiaM wrote: »

I got the 7d after I upgraded to LR3 and I don't see an over-intensity in color. But one thing I have noticed, and I don't know if this because of a different camera or due to LR3, is for the first time I am able to see a noticeable difference when trying any of the camera calibration modes which simulate if you use a Canon picture style while shooting jpeg. ...

You might try downloading the trial version of LR3. There is a whole new algoritm for processing images; it's referred to as the "process version." You don't have to re-import your images, you can convert to the 2010 process version. If you do a little research or google lightroom 3 process version, I'm sure something will come up instructing you on how to convert your images.

Cynthia -
Thanks so much.

I was planning to upgrade to LR3, just hadn't made it there yet. And I think I'm in a bit of camera overload right now. The information you've included should be a real help. I'm planning a photo wander for this weekend, so I'll plan on installing LR3 and experimenting with the new batch of photos. I may be posting in the finishing school forum to ask for guidance if I'm still not happy with the results - but I suspect that your notes will at least give me a place to start.

--- Denise

CynthiaM · August 11, 2010

denisegoldberg wrote: »

Cynthia -
Thanks so much.

You are very welcome. It's a pleasure to be able to give back and help someone who is a major contributor around here.

denisegoldberg wrote: »

I was planning to upgrade to LR3, just hadn't made it there yet. And I think I'm in a bit of camera overload right now. . .

LR and post processing will fall into place. Learn how to use the camera. I don't know what you are upgrading from but I found that from the 20d, it was a significant learning curve and it ain't over, yet. The autofocus is very different and you will find it worth your while to get a handle on it. And there is a whole lot of stuff that you can customize. One of the nicest features is that you can save 3 different camera setups into the custom notches on the dial; C1, C2 and C3. I often find when I shoot indoors in low but funcky lighting that I often bump up the iso, use a wider aperture, bracket, go into manual exposure (so I can "lock" exposure and then take my time composing and getting the focus) and spot metering. It's a lot to remeber to do and I found that I often forgot to go into spot metering. But once I got the camera set up with all of these settings, I saved them to C1 and now when I'm in that kind of lighting I just turn the dial to C1 and voila, everything is set. Or there are times when I want to use a slow shutter speed to try to capture the sense of movement. So with the camera in shutter priority, I set a slow shutter speed and saved that as C2 so I can quickly go back and forth between aperture priority and a slow shutter speed. And then there is the whole thing with how you can calibrate the focus on particular lenses. That alone will keep you busy for a few days!

So get out there, shoot and have fun.
Regards,

P.S. Here are a few links that you might find helpful:
http://cpn.canon-europe.com/content/education/technical/eos_7D_custom_functions_explained.do
http://www.deepgreenphotography.com/blog/?p=226

denisegoldberg · August 11, 2010

CynthiaM wrote: »

...LR and post processing will fall into place. Learn how to use the camera. I don't know what you are upgrading from but I found that from the 20d, it was a significant learning curve and it ain't over, yet.

Thanks again. It's so nice to have a place to ask questions and get good answers.

My previous camera was a 40D - had a repeat of a mirror lockup problem that I had fixed back in December, and I opted for an upgrade through the customer loyalty program instead of fixing it for a second time. I've only had the camera in my hands for 5 days now. I expected there to be a learning curve, and there definitely is. I'm heading for Iceland at the beginning of September, so my goal at this point is to be very comfortable with the camera by then. Yes, I know, I won't know everything, but 3 more weeks of play should give me a good foundation.

--- Denise

CynthiaM · August 12, 2010

denisegoldberg wrote: »

Thanks again. It's so nice to have a place to ask questions and get good answers.

My previous camera was a 40D - had a repeat of a mirror lockup problem that I had fixed back in December, and I opted for an upgrade through the customer loyalty program instead of fixing it for a second time. I've only had the camera in my hands for 5 days now. I expected there to be a learning curve, and there definitely is. I'm heading for Iceland at the beginning of September, so my goal at this point is to be very comfortable with the camera by then. Yes, I know, I won't know everything, but 3 more weeks of play should give me a good foundation.

--- Denise

Iceland, wow! What a fabulous place. We were there five years ago. At that time, it was very expensive and the food left a lot to be desired but the topography was out of this world; like being on another planet. If you are into photographing birds, there is a lot of opportunity for this and that is where getting a handle in advance on the autofocus system in the 7d will come in handy especially if you have any intention of trying to capture birds in flight.

Color on 7D Images

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