Email

chrisjohnson · August 12, 2010

Looking for some advice for my email hosting.

So far I have been using three hosts.

1) My internet connection provider managing my private account. Max 100 MB of which I use around half.
2) My internet hosting provider who reroutes incoming but insists my outgoing is done by my connection provider. I easily outrun their limits for archive.
3) My main client where I have some 1TB archived and for whom I get some 30 MB per day incoming.

I'll be severing my business with my main client in September and have to move. I need a provider who will handle high bandwidth and give me a lot of archive space, or I need to change my way of working but that is not so easy with webmail. I don't want to get tied in to using a local Outlook server or anything like that.

Is Google Apps an option for using my own domain? GoDaddy?

Anybody, any ideas? I expect to pay for the level of service. 10-30-100 MB incoming daily. 1 Terabyte archived post. Webmail interface. Use of own domain name, eg: Chris@chrisjohnson.nl

ColoradoSkier · August 12, 2010

I have been usinmg a Gmail account for quite some time and am quite pleased with it. I have mail routed to it from 3 different domains, and have set up Gmail so that it looks like I am sending the mail from any of those 3 domains. Haven't had a single problem with it yet, and this has been over 3 years now.

[Edit]Just saw your need for 1TB of archive. That's quite a bit. I am only using 2GB of the 7GB of storage from Gmail. If you really need 1TB, then I am not sure. Google Apps for Business offers 25GB/ account (http://www.google.com/apps/intl/en/business/features.html), which is a lot less than your stated need. Do you really need that much archive space for email?[/edit]

Dan7312 · August 12, 2010

Business Google Apps gives you 25GB per user at $50 per year. You can add more for addition cost, don't know what that is. 99.9% SLA. You use your own domain, just change your MX records. You cam add aliases other email sources/ You get direct control over Postini (virus and spam) if you want. There are other features you may or may not be interested in. Web email plus app for mobile phones. Offline access is you want. Think of it as Googles answer to Exchange. You also get support via phone or email and it reasonablly responsive. There are a number of tools to migrate your existing Exchange based email. Google.com/apps has the details. The free version is similar but 2GB email limit (so it sounds like it wouldn't work for you) and no phone support.

There are lots of hosted exchange provides if you want to stick to Exchange, but my guess is with a 1TB archive Apps will cost less, but I sure you would do the numbers checking.

Wachel · August 12, 2010

I used to have a custom domain for email. I swapped over to using a regular gmail account for the ease of use and layout. I love it. I also think that most people don't worry about seeing gmail.com at the end of my email (it's easy to remember as well). I do, however, still have my own domain name for my website.

Just my 2¢

gecko0 · August 12, 2010

I use Google Apps for my custom domain name (via GoDaddy)...works perfectly, as said above. 1TB of email? It sounds like you are using email as file storage (I am guessing large photo attachments)...which is not a great solution, IMO. Of course, any hosted solution is going to be somewhat limiting for you with that much data.

I would look into archiving that data off into a format you can access outside of email and simplify things. Once your data volume is under control, your options will open up and you can go with Google Apps easily.

It'll come down to what your archived data is and how you need to access it. I just can't imagine that much email data being needed online (part of my day job is administering a diverse Exchange environment for ~1000 users). Our 1400 mailboxes has 1/3 total of your data. lol

.02

Photog4Christ · August 12, 2010

Wachel wrote: »

I used to have a custom domain for email. I swapped over to using a regular gmail account for the ease of use and layout. I love it. I also think that most people don't worry about seeing gmail.com at the end of my email (it's easy to remember as well). I do, however, still have my own domain name for my website.

Just my 2¢

I'm going to disagree. Are you running a business or are you just a hobbyist?

If you're paying for a domain name, then having your own e-mail is super simple.

Nothing says "I'm not serious" more than having xyzphotography@gmail(yahoo, hotmail, live, etc...).com

For the record, I am currently not running a business, but I still have my own domain. I am using Google Apps for all my e-mail. If you're not comfortable setting up your mail, then I'm sure we can discuss a consulting fee.

To the OP: You need 1TB of e-mail storage?! ARE YOU OUT OF YOUR MIND?!

Sorry, just had to say that. If I was there in person and if I was a very good friend, I would slap you silly. This is e-mail, not a file storage service.

chrisjohnson · August 13, 2010

Thanks for the inputs.
I checked with my hosting provider yesterday and they confirmed that a lot of organizations are moving to Google Apps for their mail. Apparently it is quite easy to switch the DNS record to point to one host for web sites and another for mail - all part of their service.

The 1TB is a lot I know. For compliance reasons I feel more comfortable keeping my mail history myself. I never needed to look back far yet at previous years, but you never know when a client will need to revisit something that happened before. There are many occasions when I have to dig out big document from a few months back that I never studied. I think my clients also expect that level of professionalism for what I charge them. In my current assignment I get some 100 mails a day and send 5 or 10. Naturally I do not study everything I get sent or I would never get anything done, but strangely my clients expect me to have checked everything. Many of the incoming mails are big and getting bigger as people attach pieces of video - last week I got one attachment of 80MB which I only managed to view via "Whalemail". I think this trend continues and I want a provider with lots of elbow room so I can just get on with my work for the next few years.

Any ideas and opinions are welcome. I took a look at Apple's MobileMe but this seems a bit too consumerish for what I need.

Google Apps have an extra with Postini, it seems, that they will archive your mail for 10 years and allow you to search and retrieve. Seems to cost $45 per year and they don't talk about limitations. This is on top of the 25GB on-line with gmail. Need to check the fine print but as I intend "fair use" I don't expect a problem. This makes $95 dollar per year to cover my needs - I think.

PS@Wachel. I reflected on your advice but I think many of my contacts would feel uncomfortable with a gmail handle. Lots of people are nervous, probably unjustified, about the amount of data under Google control. They might not be so free about sending me confidential information when they think Google is taking care of it. Plus it makes me look cheap which is not the image I want to cultivate.

Dan7312 · August 13, 2010

I think Apps provides two levels of archiving. One is for compliance with some US laws that public corps have to follow (Sarbanes-Oxley). This is also available for Exchange bases email, just search for "hosted exchange". But I'm pretty sure hosted exchange will be more expensive than Apps.

If your only reason for not using gmail is that your address will have the gmail.com domain in it, take a look www.no-ip.com. The are a DNS hosting service and their mail forwarding product is very inexpensive. It would allow you to use own domain for your email address but store your email in your gmail account.

They also have other services.

Photog4Christ · August 13, 2010

goldenballs wrote: »

The 1TB is a lot I know. For compliance reasons I feel more comfortable keeping my mail history myself. I never needed to look back far yet at previous years, but you never know when a client will need to revisit something that happened before.....

Have you considered archiving old mail (maybe any mail older than 90 or 180 days) to a dedicated hard drive? You can get a 1 TB internal HD for less than $80 and an external for less than $100. You can then use Google Desktop to search it when you need to refer back to older e-mail.

chrisjohnson · August 13, 2010

Photog4Christ wrote: »

Have you considered archiving old mail (maybe any mail older than 90 or 180 days) to a dedicated hard drive? You can get a 1 TB internal HD for less than $80 and an external for less than $100. You can then use Google Desktop to search it when you need to refer back to older e-mail.

Yes, but I think this an option if all else fails. It seems with Google that it is easy to automate, there are good search tools when you need to find something back and it is seamless to bring it back into your mail package again. Cost wise I would need 2xdrives for the DIY option, plus the hassle of storing one drive off-site and bringing it back and for (normal DIY backup: you need copies of copies). When I can really do this for 45$ per year with Google it seems like a good deal.

Dan7312 · August 13, 2010

Make sure to talk to Google before pulling the trigger on this one. I don't think you will be able to archive 1TB of data for $45 a year. It's not all that clear but Apps pricing beyond just email seems to have some minimum requirements. If you can archive 1TB of email for $45 a year please pass that info back, it would be an outstanding deal

goldenballs wrote: »

When I can really do this for 45$ per year with Google it seems like a good deal.

gecko0 · August 13, 2010

Also keep in mind the amount of time it will take to transfer 1TB of mail data back and forth from provider to provider, even if they DO support that much storage for you. It could end in headaches for you if you have to switch services at some point and are stuck with 1TB to not only download, but to upload again somewhere else. Exchange (hosted or otherwise) would not be a viable option for you if you want to keep that much data available, unless you split it across several mailboxes. Google will be your best chance...let us know what they say about the $cost$.

chrisjohnson · August 14, 2010

A gmail question
Is it possible with gmail to copy folders to your local pc in a way that you can work with them off-line?

I think it must be as they support off-line mail handling.

When this is true then I will always have the option to archive my mail myself and still be able to read it or print it.

Dan7312 · August 14, 2010

Google Apps supports off line access, I don't think that GMail does though. I haven't set up offline access for Apps yet so I don't know how hard it would be to archive out older stuff.

Hosted exchange + Outlook would give you that capability though. You could still use OWA (Outlook Web Access) for web based access. Just use Outlook once a month (or whatever period you would want) to archive older mail. If you get Hosted Exchange it includes an Outlook license, so you wouldn't need to buy it.

BTW neither GMail or Apps has folders like Outlook does. You tag emails and use filters to sort email. You can also use filters to automatically tag emails much like in Exchange/Outlook you use rules.

goldenballs wrote: »

Is it possible with gmail to copy folders to your local pc in a way that you can work with them off-line?

ivar · August 14, 2010

Dan7312 wrote: »

Google Apps supports off line access, I don't think that GMail does though.

Gmail does as well; I never use it online/via webmail.

Dan7312 · August 14, 2010

Does it support aging mail out into a separate file to get it off the server, but that can be searched too?

ivar wrote: »

Gmail does as well; I never use it online/via webmail.

ivar · August 14, 2010

Dan7312 wrote: »

Does it support aging mail out into a separate file to get it off the server, but that can be searched too?

I have it set up in Mail (mac) and if I understand you correctly, yes it does. I have mail from years ago off-line on my local system, and I can search it.

Dan7312 · August 14, 2010

I'm guessing here, but your Mac Mail program is using POP to pull down your email onto your local machine, but in the process removes it from GMail. That's how pop email clients, like Outlook, are usually set up on Windows. You can also leave the mail on the server when you do this, but then you will run out of space on the server long before you reach a TB of accumulated email.

That works as long as you don't need to access you email from more than one place, the machine that runs your email client. I don't know if the Mac Mail client could handle a TB local email file, but I'm pretty sure Outlook would have trouble with it.

That's what the Archive function in Outlook is for. It copies email older than some date, from the main Outlook file to a separate one. That keeps Outlook response time good.

I think what the OP is looking for is to leave the email on the server so it can be accessed from anywhere, but every now and then move the mail that is, say, older than 1 year, off the server onto his local machine. That way he won't exceed the storage limit on the server. The older email would only be accessable on his local machine.

The TB of email history plus web access from anywhere does complicate things. OP is that basically what you are looking for?

ivar · August 14, 2010

Dan7312 wrote: »

I'm guessing here, but your Mac Mail program is using POP to pull down your email onto your local machine, but in the process removes it from GMail.

No, it is IMAP and it leaves it on the server

Dan7312 · August 14, 2010

Ahhh, gotcha. But that would still leaves the OP with having to store a TB on the GMail server.

Google Apps has some client code and configuration stuff that I haven't tried out yet, to enable off line access. Maybe it's just an email client. I don't think this particular feature is available in GMail. I also don't know if it allows you to age email out into a separate archive file. Eventually I'll get around to trying it out.:D

chrisjohnson · August 14, 2010

Hey great, lots more input.

I checked the idea for hosted exchange and it seems to be a flourishing business. It costs a bit more than Google Apps, mailboxes are generally limited to 2/3 GB, and people are very fuzzy about archiving. The prices I see for archiving are scary - 600$ a year plus for basic compliance archiving. There is one guy here in Holland who promises a free IPAD when you sign up for Exchange Hosting, so even those prices are wierd. Still, in US it seems Apptix prices start around 100$ and Appriver have an unlimited package for $150 - just a random trawl.

Ideally what I would like is to leave the Archive in the cloud.

When I have to take care of archiving myself because of price, then I'll need to be able to download the posts in a data format that stays compatible for 10 years. With Outlook I am confident that this will be true, while with Google I am not sure if a) I can download the mails for local storage, and b) whether they will support the data format going forward.

ian408 · August 14, 2010

Outlook is just a client. The format of mail messages has been governed by several internet RFC's (standards). Those RFC's are why you can use any number of email clients to read mail messages stored on the server. How your client stores the messages once it's received is a different matter--as an example, I cannot use a web browser to read email I've collect into one of Outlook's PST files. There are a variety of tools for moving email between various client programs. You should also know that some versions of Outlook cannot store cannot store more that 2G in these PST files and exceeding that limit could corrupt the file (you can access multiple PST files from the Outlook client).

I'm not sure why 10 years is an important number for you. Most business requirements are for much shorter periods of time and vary depending on the type of correspondence. I think you'd do yourself a favor by looking into retention policies and the reasons for implementing them prior to making any decisions.

Dan7312 · August 14, 2010

Sorting out how to do anything out of the ordinary in email is a pain.

Almost all the providers will give you a one month free trial knowing that it will be very time consuming to "unswitch" at the end of your trial.

Get one of Godaddy.com cheap (i.e. not .com or .net) domains and use that to set up your trial. Send or foward a bunch of you existing email to it and tryout however you want to do you self-archiving. If you don't like the results you won't have the effort of switching back to put up with.

BTW, some hosted exchange factoids. A lot of providers of hosted exchange are really just reselling the service one of the big guys, like Apptix.

Godaddy.com offers hosted exchange, but they are resellers of Microsofts service.

Resellers are not necessarily bad.

Almost anyone can setup an Exchange Server and offer hosted exchange. make sure your provider is doing the right stuff and backing up, etc.

Let us know what you end up doing

ian408 · August 14, 2010

I'll address the hosted Exchange thing and say if you are at all concerned about security (and you should be), you should be careful about who you choose. There are many ways in which security can be compromised and your mail become readable by others. Also, many providers limit the amount of storage you can have with severe penalties for increased amounts so be careful and review the pricing

chrisjohnson · August 15, 2010

Yes, the 10 years is a bit of a long story.

There seems to be little army of legislators in Washington and Brussels thinking up new rules all the time. As I work internationally this makes it more complicated - the US government, for example, feels entitled to exercise its juridistiction over foreigners where ever they are domiciled. Then again my multinational corporate clients have their own rules.

My thinking has been that a general legal requirement for business/tax related stuff is 7 years, so err on the safe side and make it 10, which is coincidentally what Positini is offering and they presumably did their homework properly.

This is one reason why I have so far insisted on a hosted mail with my major clients where I keep all their stuff. Then they take care of compliance their way. My personal stuff goes to my private account where 100MB storage has proved plenty. (photos and videos either go to Smugmug or get stashed on my hosting space and not linked to the web sites).

The disadvantage of hosting with my clients, of course, is that I lose some stuff that might be important to me when I move on and that is not client confidential. Linkedin is a boon, because this is an easy way to keep track of people you respect and might want to network with again, but hundreds of articles go missing every time I change major account. For the last ten years I have spent a couple of days every time I switch, trawling through my client hosted files to retrieve stuff that might be useful and that is not company confidential - this costs money too and is no fun, especially as I hardly ever look at it again.

Switching my business model to hosting all mails "myself" has pros and cons which I won't go into unless someone finds it useful. Suffice it to say that this is the way I would like to go.

Perhaps the most sensible is to take a small step this time around and move to Google Apps for my private account under my own domain. In 25GB I have an ocean of space to forward data to without having to take the archiving option just yet. I could go to Hosted Exchange but, as you say, this is cowboy country and I really do not like Outlook. I just wish Apple was providing an alternative then I could integrate with Mac OS.

Final thought for now. My web hosting provider said they expect data warehousing companies - like Smugmug - to start offering email services for their professional clients. This is why they do NOT step in to the business themselves. Now I'm off to check out GoDaddy ... thanks for all the help, it is really useful.

Dan7312 · August 15, 2010

Take a look at evernote.com to store documents you might make reference to in the future. It's not real archiving, but for keeping track of random stuff that you might want to access from anywhere even the free version is really useful. It will store either or both web and local, so you could implement your own archiving solution.

Even if you go the exchange route you need not use Outlook if you don't want to. Exchange can be config's for imap or pop and then use any of the email clients out there. Some are part of the browsers. pmail.com is a standalone (free) client has been around for a long time and is very flexible.

goldenballs wrote: »

For the last ten years I have spent a couple of days every time I switch, trawling through my client hosted files to retrieve stuff that might be useful and that is not company confidential - this costs money too and is no fun, especially as I hardly ever look at it again.

Photog4Christ · August 15, 2010

goldenballs wrote: »

...which is coincidentally what Positini is offering and they presumably did their homework properly.
...

FWIW. Postini is owned by Google, so if you use GMail or Google Apps, then you'll be using Postini's spam filtering service.

chrisjohnson · August 16, 2010

Dan7312 wrote: »

Take a look at evernote.com to store documents you might make reference to in the future. It's not real archiving, but for keeping track of random stuff that you might want to access from anywhere even the free version is really useful. It will store either or both web and local, so you could implement your own archiving solution.

Even if you go the exchange route you need not use Outlook if you don't want to. Exchange can be config's for imap or pop and then use any of the email clients out there. Some are part of the browsers. pmail.com is a standalone (free) client has been around for a long time and is very flexible.

Thanks Dan, really useful advice. I checked out Evernote and it looks very cool. I'll try it this week.

chrisjohnson · October 16, 2010

evernote and gmail
Just bumped this to thank everybody for the advice. I started with Evernote 2 months ago and upgraded to the premium account after a few weeks, and also switched to gmail. Evernote is a fantastic tool and Gmail too. I am still forwarding mail from my other email accounts to Gmail and Google gives the option to send a reply from different accounts so my contacts don't get confused. One day I will probably upgrade to a pro-account with Gmail and then I can replace my gmail handle with the url from my main web page and my mail should go quicker - forwarding takes a few minutes and this can be a pain when you are trying to discuss with a client.

Evernote is one of those pieces of software that you wonder how you lived without.

So now I have:
Chello (Internet provider): 500 Euros per year with "free" email address and 100 MB storage.
Gmail: Email (free), approx 7 GB storage
Widexs web hosting for 2 sites and url maintenance, mail forwarding: 275 Euros per year, approx. 2 GB storage.
Smugmug: 40$ per year, unlimited storage and display for my photos
Evernote: 45$ per year, unlimited storage and intelligent retrieval (6 TB per year) for everything else.

Thanks for the great advice

Dan7312 · October 16, 2010

BTW even though Google owns Postini it does not appear that gmail uses it or at least does not use the same way gapps premium does. You will find that some of the spam you receive in gmail will be blocked in an gapps email account that uses even the lowest Postini settings. Even for gapps accounts you have to turn Postini on, by default it is not used.

Photog4Christ wrote: »

FWIW. Postini is owned by Google, so if you use GMail or Google Apps, then you'll be using Postini's spam filtering service.

Dan7312 · October 16, 2010

gapps premium includes tools that will "suck" up the mail from your other exchance, pop, or imap accounts into you gapps mail storage so you can have it all in one place. The tools do this directly between google and your other email accounts so it goes pretty quickly. Then you would end up with one search mechanism for all your mail.

goldenballs wrote: »

Just bumped this to thank everybody for the advice. I started with Evernote 2 months ago and upgraded to the premium account after a few weeks, and also switched to gmail. Evernote is a fantastic tool and Gmail too. I am still forwarding mail from my other email accounts to Gmail and Google gives the option to send a reply from different accounts so my contacts don't get confused. One day I will probably upgrade to a pro-account with Gmail and then I can replace my gmail handle with the url from my main web page and my mail should go quicker - forwarding takes a few minutes and this can be a pain when you are trying to discuss with a client.

Evernote is one of those pieces of software that you wonder how you lived without.

So now I have:
Chello (Internet provider): 500 Euros per year with "free" email address and 100 MB storage.
Gmail: Email (free), approx 7 GB storage
Widexs web hosting for 2 sites and url maintenance, mail forwarding: 275 Euros per year, approx. 2 GB storage.
Smugmug: 40$ per year, unlimited storage and display for my photos
Evernote: 45$ per year, unlimited storage and intelligent retrieval (6 TB per year) for everything else.

Thanks for the great advice

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