The Spear

rwells · August 14, 2010

I can't decide which one I like best...

Azzaro · August 14, 2010

My vote is for the second one

Panther · August 14, 2010

Howdy Randy,

Really like them both, but I think I'd perfer the first one if you
could bring in the background image a little darker, it may
be my monitor but I can hardly see it at all.

Looks like a smart move working on images instead of being
out in the 104 degree heat.

rwells · August 14, 2010

Azzaro wrote: »

My vote is for the second one

Thanks Gary!

rwells · August 14, 2010

Panther wrote: »

Howdy Randy,

Really like them both, but I think I'd perfer the first one if you
could bring in the background image a little darker, it may
be my monitor but I can hardly see it at all.

Looks like a smart move working on images instead of being
out in the 104 degree heat.

Ok Craig,

I added another version, with the Indian darker.

Scorcher out there

chuckinsocal · August 14, 2010

I'd go with #3 if the background was just a little bit darker.

D'Buggs · August 14, 2010

chuckinsocal wrote: »

I'd go with #3 if the background was just a little bit darker.

x2

black mamba · August 14, 2010

Well, after much contemplation.....just kidding. I vote for the last version, but with an even darker BG that brings out more of the Indian. Even better, I'd like to see the spear point in the opposit direction with an upward slant....have the Indian head and the spear head at about the same level.

Tom

Dogdots · August 14, 2010

I like the first one

rwells · August 15, 2010

black mamba wrote: »

Well, after much contemplation.....just kidding. I vote for the last version, but with an even darker BG that brings out more of the Indian. Even better, I'd like to see the spear point in the opposit direction with an upward slant....have the Indian head and the spear head at about the same level.

Tom

Thanks for the input Tom

rwells · August 15, 2010

Dogdots wrote: »

I like the first one

Thanks for the input Mary

rwells · August 15, 2010

D'Buggs wrote: »

x2

Thank you for your input DB

rwells · August 15, 2010

chuckinsocal wrote: »

I'd go with #3 if the background was just a little bit darker.

Appreciate your input Chuck!

Dogdots · August 15, 2010

Randy....we've given our input -- which do you like the best

rwells · August 15, 2010

Dogdots wrote: »

Randy....we've given our input -- which do you like the best

Well, I have an unfair advantage... I knew what I was trying to impart.

Unattached viewers might not, and evidently did not, come to the same conclusion that I did.

If viewers come to a different conclusion than what the artist invisioned, then the piece is not successful, IMHO.

My thoughts on the images, given the goal of the "spear" being the main subject, and the Indian being a distant, ghostly reminder of a lifestyle that lives no more, and one of it's prominent tools/weapons/symbols.

1) Spear is clearly what your eye goes to first, then it tries to figure out what the bg subject is. It's a ghosted Indian

2) While I like the idea here, it's just too busy. Remembering that the "spear" is the main subject

3) Even though the Indian is a much less prominent in both size, contrast and intensity, it's the first thing my eye goes to in this version. I have to force my eye to the "spear" which is actually the main subject.

I've appreciated everyones input as this is clearly a tricky image to fully obtain my goal.
Based on the feedback, I'm sure that it's not there yet. It's not critical that this particular image is a success, I was just thinking about some composite images. Clearly I need to think about all the elements, and how the eye/brain processes them, to be able to accomplish my image goals.

It's interesting that no one said "anything" about the spear, with the exception of Tom, whom suggested a whole rework. (maybe this is indeed warranted). This tells me that the bg image was getting way to much attention.

Hmmm...

Dogdots · August 15, 2010

rwells wrote: »

Well, I have an unfair advantage... I knew what I was trying to impart.

Unattached viewers might not, and evidently did not, come to the same conclusion that I did.

If viewers come to a different conclusion than what the artist invisioned, then the piece is not successful, IMHO.

My thoughts on the images, given the goal of the "spear" being the main subject, and the Indian being a distant, ghostly reminder of a lifestyle that lives no more, and one of it's prominent tools/weapons/symbols.

1) Spear is clearly what your eye goes to first, then it tries to figure out what the bg subject is. It's a ghosted Indian

2) While I like the idea here, it's just too busy. Remembering that the "spear" is the main subject

3) Even though the Indian is a much less prominent in both size, contrast and intensity, it's the first thing my eye goes to in this version. I have to force my eye to the "spear" which is actually the main subject.

I've appreciated everyones input as this is clearly a tricky image to fully obtain my goal.
Based on the feedback, I'm sure that it's not there yet. It's not critical that this particular image is a success, I was just thinking about some composite images. Clearly I need to think about all the elements, and how the eye/brain processes them, to be able to accomplish my image goals.

It's interesting that no one said "anything" about the spear, with the exception of Tom, whom suggested a whole rework. (maybe this is indeed warranted). This tells me that the bg image was getting way to much attention.

Hmmm...

Thank you for sharing your vision on your photos

When I looked at your photos and made my pick....I saw the Indian in the background "as the past" dressed in his head-dress, but I saw the spear as today. Strange isn't it. You can find spears at novelty stores, etc. One can even find an arrowhead and make one themselves, but an Indian dressed in his head-dress..well you don't see that except if you attend a Pow-wow. So my eye went to look at the Indian more closely. Then I went to the spear.

Sometimes we come up with a main subject, but the viewer see's something else that is the focal point to them. That doesn't mean the photo needs to be changed tho in my opinion. It just means they see it differently, but like the photo "as it is". We like our subject to be stronger and sharper in a photo, but does it really need to be? I don't know.

asprin · August 16, 2010

different to see the difference, b the most different one is the second

black mamba · August 16, 2010

Randy,

My thoughts on re-positioning the spear are born from two considerations:

1 ) A spear in a relative flat posture denotes to me a sort of " lifeless " conception....a raised spear has a lot more " action " to it, more aggression, and more interest.

2 ) The only reason I suggested having it point the other way is simply to leave room to accommodate the figure of the Indian as it is now placed....overall, this is a minor point.

The bigger issue with this discussion is that most of the viewers who have commented so far, myself included, are concerned solely with this image and the couple of variations presented. This is, of course, a natural response when we are asked to C & C specific images. On a more encompassing scale, the technique employed here, and the ultimate goal of presentation, should be the primary focus.

The idea of having a " sub-subject ", if you will, is certainly intriguing....as evidenced in what you have shown us. It can be a very effective technique in tying together objects and their relationships. From the responses you received, it's obvious there is a difference of opinion as to how heavily the secondary subject should be emphasized. Seeking the right balance on this point is, I think, the toughest task and the one most subject to personal preferences. It's very likely that the nature of the subjects will often dictate the difference in emphasis that is placed on the individual elements.

I think you are definitely on the right track to employ this technique in an effort to create an interesting body of work that is presented in a unique fashion.

Tom

DaddyO · August 16, 2010

Admire the effort. Both are neat. Will take work 3 though I feel the angle of
the spear might work better a bit steeper coming into frame more upper
right with shaft leaving spear tip where its at. Just my 2 cents

.

rwells · August 16, 2010

black mamba wrote: »

Randy,

My thoughts on re-positioning the spear are born from two considerations:

1 ) A spear in a relative flat posture denotes to me a sort of " lifeless " conception....a raised spear has a lot more " action " to it, more aggression, and more interest.

2 ) The only reason I suggested having it point the other way is simply to leave room to accommodate the figure of the Indian as it is now placed....overall, this is a minor point.

The bigger issue with this discussion is that most of the viewers who have commented so far, myself included, are concerned solely with this image and the couple of variations presented. This is, of course, a natural response when we are asked to C & C specific images. On a more encompassing scale, the technique employed here, and the ultimate goal of presentation, should be the primary focus.

The idea of having a " sub-subject ", if you will, is certainly intriguing....as evidenced in what you have shown us. It can be a very effective technique in tying together objects and their relationships. From the responses you received, it's obvious there is a difference of opinion as to how heavily the secondary subject should be emphasized. Seeking the right balance on this point is, I think, the toughest task and the one most subject to personal preferences. It's very likely that the nature of the subjects will often dictate the difference in emphasis that is placed on the individual elements.

I think you are definitely on the right track to employ this technique in an effort to create an interesting body of work that is presented in a unique fashion.

Tom

Thanks for your analysis Tom,

Obviously I didn't put enough thought into these images at the time of composite. This method may be trickier than I thought to get a pleasing image, that imparts what one wants to impart to the viewer. I think this is one of those examples of just picking a couple of items from the archives, and putting them together, instead of having a firm image idea, then creating to meet that goal. Kind of did these backward, probably why they didn't make it

But, hey, ya' gotta' start somewhere...

rwells · August 16, 2010

DaddyO wrote: »

Admire the effort. Both are neat. Will take work 3 though I feel the angle of
the spear might work better a bit steeper coming into frame more upper
right with shaft leaving spear tip where its at. Just my 2 cents .

Thanks for your input Michael

DonRicklin · August 16, 2010

rwells wrote: »

Thanks for your analysis Tom,

Obviously I didn't put enough thought into these images at the time of composite. This method may be trickier than I thought to get a pleasing image, that imparts what one wants to impart to the viewer. I think this is one of those examples of just picking a couple of items from the archives, and putting them together, instead of having a firm image idea, then creating to meet that goal. Kind of did these backward, probably why they didn't make it

But, hey, ya' gotta' start somewhere...

Not answering for Tom, but one reason that the Indian my seem to dominant is because we here in Western (not just Texas,

) civilization tend to read from Top Left to Bottom Right, even for images.... One encounters the Indian first, that way.

I would respectfully suggest having, as Tom mentions, the Spear point up with the head in the upper left corner and the indian to the right and behind the slanted spear, truly, in the background, even more evidently than in #3 where the lower part of the INdian image is hidden in the shadow.

If the spear handle recedes in the image it will 'lead' the eye to a mere suggestion of the INdian, behind....

IMHO,

Don

rwells · August 17, 2010

DonRicklin wrote: »

Not answering for Tom, but one reason that the Indian my seem to dominant is because we here in Western (not just Texas, ) civilization tend to read from Top Left to Bottom Right, even for images.... One encounters the Indian first, that way.

I would respectfully suggest having, as Tom mentions, the Spear point up with the head in the upper left corner and the indian to the right and behind the slanted spear, truly, in the background, even more evidently than in #3 where the lower part of the INdian image is hidden in the shadow.

If the spear handle recedes in the image it will 'lead' the eye to a mere suggestion of the INdian, behind....

IMHO,

Don

Thanks for your input Don,

Like I said, this particular image is of no real importance, it's the concept that I'm trying to put in play. I'll use these images and suggestions to play with it a little more.

The Spear

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