Need advice on breaking out of Craigslist marketing.

Weisel · January 6, 2011

Hi all.

I know there is no one way to do this, and each of you may have a different strategy in marketing, but I'm asking some advice from those willing to submit any.

I've been shooting weddings for a little over a year now, and still, most of my business comes from my Craigslist ads. I think I'm more than ready to move onto bigger money, bigger weddings, but taking that step is a mystery, as I don't have funds for a magazine ad or anything like that yet.

I have gotten a great training DVD by California shooter Mike Colon, who discusses marketing quite a bit, but his strategies are for photog's who are about another year more into this than I am.

I'm not looking for some quick fix to making me Nashville's next big star wedding shooter. I am who I am. What I am hoping for is some advice on inexpensive ways to get the next level of bride that I know I can be getting now....if only I could get them to my site.

Do I need to get way up high on Google ratings? This alone could be my answer. Of course, I know that word of mouth is huge. Mike Colon also teaches that marketing not so much to brides, but to the industry people is where it's at. I definately need to network much much more, which I am now doing.

Advice is appreciated. I guess my main question is...how can I get noticed more, and get out of Craigslist Land? Those CL brides are looking for bargains, and I think I'm ready to move out of bargain pricing.

I will include a few random photos, just so you can judge where I'm at.

Thanks!

Matthew Saville · January 6, 2011

Shane, your images are indeed GREAT, so please do the industry a favor

and crank it up a notch! No more CL for you! :-P

Okay in all seriousness, it kinda takes money to make money. Plain and simple, you gotta be able to run a business and have samples etc. to show clients, if you want to "climb the ladder". I wish I had waited 10 years and saved up $5-10K to start my photography business, instead of diving in with $0.00 in my pocket and ending up going the route I did. Things are okay now, but it took *nearly* 10 years to get to where I am and a lot of those years were pretty hard.

Anyways. It's certainly not impossible to do, and I've got plenty of input when it comes to raising your prices, and therefore your clientele, since I too started as low as possible and climbed slowly through every possible rank of bride...

The biggest thing is to connect with people. Wherever you're active, wherever you know the largest group of potential client, put your heart and soul into reaching those people. It could be church, school, work, wherever... But you gotta create an "army" of people who instinctively blurt out your name whenever they hear the words "wedding" or "engaged"... Well, you know what I mean. You need to create advocates. The good news is, they're mostly free! The bad news is, these things will always require a huge investment of time and energy. Connect with people...

The other big thing is to show what you want to sell. Get a few decent sized canvases to hang on your walls for when people come over, or get a couple nice looking albums that you can show people. If they can't physically see and touch those kinds of products, they'll flip when you tell them you charge $2000-$3000.

Lastly, you should at least kill all CL advertising and, as a bare minimum, switch to FB advertising. You can direct your ads towards a very specific type of bride, for example women age 25-35 who have a college degree and are engaged. ;-) It can cost you $50-100 a month depending on how much visibility you want to buy, but it may pay off!

Also, just blog and Facebook regularly to get a bit of SEO for your area, and post your starting price on an about page, a pricing page, and a contact page, etc. so that you start to deter CL price-shoppers as much as possible. Your images are worth thousands, that's for sure, you just need the confidence to be able to tell a bride that you *PROMISE* she'll get images as good as those, no matter what. :-)

Good luck! I'm the least of those who ought to be giving business advice, keep in mind, so look for others to give better replies. My own business is not a poster boy of successful marketing etc. tactics, I'm really not very good at marketing, advertising, etc. and I've mostly just focused on being as good of a photographer as I can be, and seeing if people will hire me. ;-)

Take care,
=Matt=

chrisjohnson · January 7, 2011

Weddings are infectious. You can be sure that some people at the weddings you service will be deciding it was so much fun that they will do it themselves before too long. Make sure they have your card.

Second, I don't know Mr Mike Colon but I do know that bride and groom are great recommenders. After all, if you want to get married and don't know which photographer to ask what would you do first? Ask a friend or colleague who recently got married or trust Google? You could even offer an incentive for any business brought your way.

When you want to up your game you need to get with the right socio-economic crowd. Figure where they hang and how to get yourself noticed; charity do, horsey events, golf club? It all works. People getting married also need other stuff - dresses, cakes, venues, even lawyers for a pre-nup - other places to advertise and recruit your agents. You gotta be desperate to find a wedding photographer on FB.

Moogle Pepper · January 7, 2011

goldenballs wrote: »

You gotta be desperate to find a wedding photographer on FB.

Not really. Think about it, your friend got married and was tagged by one of the photographer's images. It makes the search for a vendor a lot easier since they are already sneaking in the FB at work or wherever they are.. haha! I wouldn't rely mainly on it, but it is a resource that is better than CL.

Matt, as always, said it best. Connect and network with people. Advertising costs money, but the returns might be worth it.

Weisel · January 7, 2011

Great advice so far, amigos. Just reading what's already been written has given me some ideas.
As far as FB ads, I've done those off and on. I haven't had much success, but I don't spend much either. I think...maybe, I landed a contract off a FB bride. I need to check that, and if I did, then it has payed for itself, and for many ads in the future. Come to think of it, I need to go re-activate my FB ad. It's on pause.

I have a fb fan page. I'm up to 97 fans as I type this. I also blog, and I think I do a decent job at that.

I want to get off Craigslist ASAP, but right now, if I pulled the ads, I may go broker than I am! haha .

goldenballs, Mike Colon is in Cali, and last I heard, on his training DVD I have, he had recently upped his prices to 20k for starting price. He's huge in the industry, and in tons of mags, etc. His advice is to not focus so much on marketing to brides, because they come and go. But market to the wedding industry, to the people like us who live and breath this stuff. Wedding planners, , cake makers, venues, magazines, etc. It really builds a lot more "buz" than a few happy brides. But this is in no way to discount the extreme importance of having happy brides telling the world about you. That is of course...HUGE.

Let's keep the discussion going, as I'm sure it helps out many more than just me, the OP.

divamum · January 7, 2011

Disclaimer: not a wedding photographer, but spend much time self-marketing as a musician so follow these threads with interest. Consider my comments n00b brainstorming rather than surefire solutions!

Weisel it seems from their comments that many of our successful wedding photographers in here (Heather, Angie, the Matts et al) are frequently mentioning both the word of mouth referrals, and also the "added value" items they include with their package. How are you working the contacts you HAVE as well as gaining new ones? Do you follow up with happy brides you've shot, give them cards to circulate among their own friends, hand out postcards at the venues where you're shootiing weddings you have booked? Is there a way of driving traffic to your website from the guests at those weddings? Can you follow up with those brides about possible future shoots (ttd, general portraits, first baby etc etc) to keep them interested in your work and recommending you to friends? Obviously, if you're hoping to raise prices and move up you'll need to make it clear that you cannot offer the same price/deal as you might have a year ago, but happy customers are happy customers - if folks like the work, they'll possibly be willing to bump up their budget for a photographer whose work they've seen and liked, and who a friend recommended.

In the freelance world, work breeds work - the more you get, the more you have. Use the profile of one gig to drive towards another.

A Facebook fan page can be a fabulous tool, but you can't let it sit idle - post to it! Post results from shoots, interesting information about what you have coming up, fun facts and ideas... it can't be a passive doorfront. I've noticed among my friends (both singer and photographer) that the ones who are successfully using social media are posting regularly and, while staying professional, also keeping it fun and approachable. As a photographer (just as with a musician!), part of what you're selling is YOU, not only your product. Classy-but-approachable seems a good model to aim for, IM inexperienced Opinion.

Now, a question from me: what happens if you change the TONE of your ad on Craiglist so it's "not like all the others", maybe even upping the price a little so that it starts to appeal to a different market? I say this with naivete since I don't know how that all works, but it would seem to me worth setting yourself apart, somehow. I know that when I'm shopping CL for items/services (never photographers, but household items, contractors etc etc), I definitely pay more attention to well-worded, sincere ad than something which was obviously banged off in a hurry (and/or is poorly spelled/written). If you can present the classy front-end of your photos (which are beautiful!) you will likel attract more like-minded people.

Another naive question: is it worth printing up some 5x7 postcards and seeing if local churches/dress shops/florists are willing to post them? Not sure if that's ok in Weddingg Photographer land - I know that for actor headshots, TONS of people have their z-cards/postcards in all the studios/rehearsal venues and it's a good source of info.

Again, I'm not an expert - just thinking out loud! Very interesting thread, and I shall be :lurk

mmmatt · January 7, 2011

Shane, you and I are probably about a year apart in our wedding businesses... here is what I have found. Facebook adds didn't work for me BUT I just recently got a client that was friends with a friend of one of my brides on facebook. Through the majic of facebook this new client saw one or a few of my pics because her friend had commented and they were watermarked. She wrote down my name and a few months later when her man popped the question she called me to check availability before booking a venue.

Lesson learned: Encourage your brides to upload images to facebook and encourage them to use the watermarked images. I provide 2 folders on my image discs. first is "full res for printing" and second is "low res for web use". the low res images are watermarked at the bottom of the images and I talk to them about why I prefer they use those on facebook (no right-click protection, and marketing).

The bulk of my recent bookings have come from guests and bridesmaids at recent weddings. Most every wedding I get compliments from people at the wedding of how much fun I made it, or how I made it so easy. I also do a few quick edits on site between formals and reception and then put a slideshow on a digital picture frame. The frame goes on the gift table with a card holder next to it. All night long there will be a group of people around it looking, pointing, oooing and ahhing! Unfortunately I can only find the time to do this when I am shooting with a 2nd (or am the 2nd), but when I do it is a BIG hit and people remember it. Usually I will quick-edit 10 or so shots from the day, and if I have e-session photos of them I will throw those in there as well. Another thing I do, is I encourage people to do a guestbook album. I design these with the e-session photos with a printed cover and blank pages every other page for people to write in. Most people at the reception have never seen the e session photos and this is a great way to show them!!!! I print them with blurb as a 10x8 and the cost is about $50. I charge $350 for it and include it in my top package. I am now doing these for nearly all of my clients.

Lesson learned: Market at the event! Market yourself and your personality. Keep it fun and if something goes wrong, don't get bent... cool head always becuse nobody wants added stress on wedding day and stress is contagious. Market your work and your deliverables. TALK to people and get to know the wedding party, family and guests. This is the single best time to network with potential clients.

When I started marketing myself I was priced low and used craigslist some. Then after a few bookings and a better port I raised my prices, and then again, and then again, almost quarterly. After last June I doubled them. The right kind of clients WANT to pay a premium for wedding photography! Would a Mercedes Benz be a status symbol if it cost the same as a Chevy? Sure it would still be a great car, but it would no longer be good enough for the affluent people who you currently see driving them. Pushing my prices has gotten me better and more brides. Fancier rooms, nicer dresses, more affluent guests, bigger rocks, soberish wedding parties, more beautiful brides... all that goes into the port and comes out as me commanding a bigger fee.

Lesson learned: Figure out what level of bride you want and set your prices to their budget. Certainly your work needs to back it up, but they won't even look your way if you are priced at the level that less affluent people can afford. Also don't bend on your pricing... set it and stand by it. If they want you they will find a way to pay it.

My .02
Matt

urbanaries · January 7, 2011

I think there's some FANTASTIC advice in here, especially about how to leverage your current client base to generate referrals.

I got a few of those personal referrals, but most of my referrals came from wedding planners and catering managers. I took a wedding once from a "budget bride" who happened to have her wedding at the swankiest club in town. I took it for almost nothing, and made sure the catering manager and I were friends before the day was over. I bent over backwards, asked him what photos he needed to help sell his venue, etc etc and he has sent me well over $50,000 in business in the last three years since.

Also happened with a popular wedding planner, and I really marketed myself to her as something specific (for your artsy, unconventional clients or whatever) and have done many weddings with her since.

Goes without saying but both of these revenue streams have albums and canvases and business cards and brochures of mine at the ready, to show off their OWN work and we all benefit.

Dont forget churches. These are all places brides book immediately before they start looking for a photographer. I was shocked at the number of nice churches that had NO photographer albums to show off their ceremonies and grounds.

Bottom line, when you're on an advertising budget (like I always was!) $200 spent on a nice flush mount album at a venue where you've made a personal connection with the person in a position to refer you was a better return than FB or Google ads in the higher demographic markets.

HTH and Good Luck!

studio1972 · January 8, 2011

Great advice here. One thing I would say is that client referrals build over time (a long time) so don't rely on them too much in the early stages. One problem as you go further upmarket your prices go up and your potential referrals will be put off knowing what their friends paid a year or two ago. You have to get brand new clients and you can do that either on the Internet or at wedding shows, but I prefer the former.

Mark Dickinson · January 10, 2011

Hi, I didn't read it all, but I started just like you. I did the classifieds and pennysaver, craigslist. Here's what you do. Don't think as a hobbiest, or amateur. I think that maybe what you are thinking.

Start with Google and Facebook I realize it seems the 'duh' thing to do. Go to google places and get your marker set up. Spend 25.00 a month to get a sponsored link to your site in google places.

From there, design your website(s)

These sites im going to show you are sht, but they do seem to work for me.

www.thecasements.com (in works from html to wordpress)

http://wilburboathouseweddings.com/ (local venue)

http://daytonaweddingcompany.com/ Collaboration of vendors

http://ptph.com/ (one site good for 4char and keywords) Be careful not to double post, you will get banned from google until you correct it.

markdickinsonportraits.com <- another keyworded site focused on portraits

http://biketoberfestweddings.com/ (site for specific weeks to get married)

These are all my websites, I get anywhere from 50-70 hits of traffic monthly specific to the area, and probably 20 percent booking from them I have about 250 .com's that I have created, even my store site, mdpstore.com purchasemyphotos and purchasemypics.com (all for later development to drive people in)

My biggest suggestion, RAISE YOUR PRICE NOW! Here's the good thing about raising prices. You can always discount them if you feel the client out. Meet with them and say hey, you know I can drop some, you guys are nice and I'd love to discount it for you. Or don't discount and throw in a "FREE" something.

The realm of price range is (300-600) low budget, ill spend more on flowers than photography. (700-1200) moderate range thoughtful of photography, (1500-2500) upper middle class. Wont nickle and dime you with a 100 discount. and (3000-10000) High end, (feel guilty range) for charging so much but people will pay it, but in moderation maybe 2-3 of these MIGHT come per year if you present yourself as on their level.

Still do craigslist people but rope them in with low cost packages, then upsell them with no copyright shoots and restrict to purchase through you, You will get $300+ from sales if you do it right.

Facebook... the reason why I said facebook is because you can advertise, and facebook is the top visited site, so move where the people go.

Try it out and I hope it works for you.

Mark Dickinson · January 10, 2011

Oh and get lightroom:) I think all your images exif data are cs4. you will increase workflow and can apply almost all the same treatments you are doing in photos:)

I also noticed that you don't have a website signature setup in the forums. PR, and backlinking is important too. Make sure you set that up clicking the YOU link. Post your website places, and you can always check. www.backlinkwatch.com to see where you are listed.

Google ranking is hard to determine. I always tried to beat their tactics but got banned myself a few times. Best thing is to make it content friendly so that bots can read your site which goes back to relevancy to ranking.

Further more on facebook:

set up your personal page, (understand it will be business related) check mine out, and you can add me if you like:

http://www.facebook.com/MarkDDickinson (personal)

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Mark-Dickinson-Photography/114691383155 (fan)

You have to have both because if you want to virually spread. you have to be able to tag people in the photos, so they have to be fans and friends currently. once you do that you can really tag yourself and see comments and start to see the spreading how it occurs naturally. It is a full time job but really does work. Facebook 2010 probably brought 10 weddings to me. (I think thats good since it was no money, but time involved)

Hope this works

Mark Dickinson · January 10, 2011

Shane,

Site is working, YES you do not need to be on craigslist. That is for 'oh we're looking for a photographer for free' and low priced lazy people that don't use google! :P

Weisel · January 10, 2011

Mark Dickinson wrote: »

Shane,

Here's a BIG problem: http://www.shaneirwinphotography.com/ <-- doesn't work at all

Hello Mark, and thanks for all the great advice. I'm going to begin looking into all that tonight. First, a couple of things I think you may have been a tad off on. ; )

I don't think of this in an amateur way in any way, shape or form. I'm completely sold out to this, and have been since I started. I do lack in some knowledge of web marketing, and what you've said is great stuff.

As for my website URL, it works fine for me. Is anybody else not able to go to my website?? (it's no longer on Smug, although my proofing and ordering galleries are still here) I just clicked on the link above to my site, and it worked for me. If others can't get there, I sure do need to know about it. I link to it using www.ShaneIrwinPhotography.com

Also, I do use LR2. I'd be a lost soul without LR. I also Photoshop between 3-5% of my wedding images, after LR.

I have a nice FB fan page, with currently 97 fans. Should break 100 in a few days. I need tons more, and I need to do even more marketing with it.

Again, thanks a LOT for the advice. Really good stuff. I don't mean to be defensive about the few above issues, but I needed to be sure I'm understood. ...for my pride's sake.

I went to a local bridal show yesterday, just with my briefcase and some cards and such. I went mainly to network with other vendors, which is huge. I also met with a couple who wanted to meet me there. I think I won them over.

Next weekend, off to an even closer bridal show here in Nashville. More of the same networking.

OK, off to study some of your info. Thanks a bunch.

Mark Dickinson · January 10, 2011

Aw ya I didn't mean to offend. I Was remembering how I felt stuck at craigslist level advertising. I tried www and http and without on the site. Maybe it was my side but I was browsing sites at the same time. Your work is amazing I'm jealous of the landscapes and scenery.

I have a cool blog about wedding times. I'm on my phone but google. Caution when hiring a photographer 500

You should see my blog and a story about the time for wedding post

Mark Dickinson · January 10, 2011

Site is working from my phone btw.

Weisel · February 23, 2011

OK, so I'm placing an ad on The Knot today or tomorrow. Already paid them. On the way soon.

So I hope to be able to stop posting on Craigslist altogether. Does anyone have any idea if being on CL actually counts against you on SEO stats? For instance, does Google count that against your site, when they see you on CL? I think I may have read that somewhere. Maybe.

I'm wondering, because I may or may not continue on CL. More than likely I'll stop, because I don't even want to be associated with that anymore, if possible. CL and SEO. Bad blend?

dawssvt · February 23, 2011

Looks like you have the talen to break out of that market, you just need better gear. I would write a business plan, get a loan for some professional gear, get the new gear, do a few weddings and other shoots with the new gear and raise your prices.

Matthew Saville · February 24, 2011

Weisel wrote: »

OK, so I'm placing an ad on The Knot today or tomorrow. Already paid them. On the way soon.

So I hope to be able to stop posting on Craigslist altogether. Does anyone have any idea if being on CL actually counts against you on SEO stats? For instance, does Google count that against your site, when they see you on CL? I think I may have read that somewhere. Maybe.

I'm wondering, because I may or may not continue on CL. More than likely I'll stop, because I don't even want to be associated with that anymore, if possible. CL and SEO. Bad blend?

Craigslist will not affect your SEO at all, if anything it will increase it. Google doesn't discriminate against cheap photographers! :-P

But yeah, honestly I would dump CL and spend an hour every other day just connecting with people. There are FAR better places to connect with potential clients than CL, heck you could even take the time you spend online connecting with other PHOTOGRAPHERS, and invest it in finding clients. That's what I do! Think about what types of clients you'd like to do business with, and how you can connect with them, then search for online communities or other networks where they congregate. Usually, just pick a hobby or sport or whatever, something that you can at least have in common with your clients. I love the outdoors for example so I look for communities dedicated to outdoorsy things. Just put a link to your website in your signature, and be friendly! You don't ever need to mention your business unless asked, a link and a friendly attitude is all it takes.

Good luck!
=Matt=

Mark Dickinson · February 24, 2011

Here's a tip about the knot. Ad's might be good. But the way the forums work on there is it spreads within the group... (who did you use) oh we used thisphotographer.com, oh really ill check him out. Ok WOW I LOVED HIS WORK! Thank you, we're hiring him. Then they post about their wedding, a friend sees it and says oh your using this photographer, 'we'll look into him' Then other trollers of the forum say, yeah I used that photographer too, he was great. or he sucked, then you get the downfall of the knot, or the uprise. Let me know how you do with that. I have never placed an ad in any wedding website, other than general listings. I don't see the need for spending the funds when its all right here at your fingertips, with great seo, social spreading, and so on. take a look at my fan page. http://www.facebook.com/MarkDickinsonPhoto
Try that, it wont hurt, add your clients, say thank you, do a cool edit for them to give them fresh work.... then post and tag. put a logo, send it to their page. You'll see how it spreads there.

Weisel · February 24, 2011

Matthew, your advice sounds good to me. I've actually worked some of that already, but not enough. I joined a meetup group, and would often show up to groups and document the party or concert etc. I never pushed my business unless asked. I do need to join another one or two that I like, and open up things a bit. I tend to be a hermit, always working online.

Mark, I've done my share of getting involved in the Knot forums, as well as Wedding Bees. I have managed to get a couple of inquiries, one of which was on a already booked date(of course). But I've been working those forums very subtly for just over a year. Still being in my first years, I shot 10 weddings in 2010, so that's not a huge volume that will bring lots of online ravings on the Knot. But your advice is right on, and I'll keep working it.

I emailed four photographers a few days ago, all from a non-competing state from me. Each of them had nice ads on the Knot. They each responded positively about what their Knot ads have done for them. I'm getting a premium ad, so I have high hopes. I'm just right on the verge of busting out and exploding onto the scene, so this may be the bit I needed. Obviously, I have to keep my clients happy as well, past and present. That's the key for the long run.

Mark Dickinson · February 24, 2011

Very cool, I definitely think you'll be going good soon. I live in Daytona Beach, EVERYONE! complains about economy. But we sometimes get a 10k photographer. I have about 40 weddings booked so far between 2010, 2011 (February) 2012 -December about 3 so far. My price ranges are around 1500-2700 (more at the 1500-2000) range. I haven't done an advertisement. Lindsay my wife, (www.lindsayrachaelevents.com) uses the knot lightly, very lightly. If they catch you trolling, they will community blacklist you by running their mouth. so she has our wedding page up, but doesn't do anything but stay in contact with friends shes met on there.

I started the same exact way you did, had the same exact questions when it came down to it. I literally was stuck in CL for a while, not knowing what to do. I upped my prices, upped my website, and now im stuck with over 200+ websites, try doing it with one. it won't hurt, it wont make a broken bank. go to godaddy, or whatever hosting, get your favorite venue... (say one you've shot at)... http://www.bellemeadeplantation.com <-- that's their main site, I would buy the domain, www.bellemeadeplantationweddings.com <-- very long im sure, but then post some information about your experience there, make some photo galleries and link back to your website.

Try this google:

ligntner museum weddings or just Lightner Museum (i ususally follow the suggested search since its popular) or

wilbur boat house or add weddings..

take a look at the sites that pop up, if you see one with sitelocationWEDDINGS.com it is typically mine.

This will help you SEO your way to giving people info. and always link back to both sites (yours and theirs) with permission. I think with one you will see it populate to the top of the search almost in two weeks. because it is specific.
I googled that venue:

"The Nashville Belle Meade Plantation Wedding of Mark & Kelsey ...
We had a ball shooting their fab wedding at the historic Belle Meade Plantation in Nashville and the day could not have turned out any more perfect (rain ...
www.grayphotograph.com/blog/?p=5797 - Cached
A Rustic, Natural, Belle Meade Plantation Wedding"

and that came up at spot 4 with wedding added, he might be picked for work there because people want familiarity.

Weisel · February 24, 2011

Mark,
I am with Godaddy on some of my web stuff. What do you do for building these little location websites? Are they little Godaddy sites or what? I'm interested in trying this maybe.

Matthew Saville · February 25, 2011

Weisel wrote: »

Matthew, your advice sounds good to me. I've actually worked some of that already, but not enough. I joined a meetup group, and would often show up to groups and document the party or concert etc. I never pushed my business unless asked. I do need to join another one or two that I like, and open up things a bit. I tend to be a hermit, always working online.

Mark, I've done my share of getting involved in the Knot forums, as well as Wedding Bees. I have managed to get a couple of inquiries, one of which was on a already booked date(of course). But I've been working those forums very subtly for just over a year. Still being in my first years, I shot 10 weddings in 2010, so that's not a huge volume that will bring lots of online ravings on the Knot. But your advice is right on, and I'll keep working it.

I emailed four photographers a few days ago, all from a non-competing state from me. Each of them had nice ads on the Knot. They each responded positively about what their Knot ads have done for them. I'm getting a premium ad, so I have high hopes. I'm just right on the verge of busting out and exploding onto the scene, so this may be the bit I needed. Obviously, I have to keep my clients happy as well, past and present. That's the key for the long run.

Yeah man, this (weddings / portraits) honestly just isn't a good profession for "hermits". I know this from firsthand experience. Me. ;-)

The biggest thing you can do for your business' growth is to break ice and engage people. I absolutely guarantee you this will be the best investment. It doesn't cost much money or time, it just costs a little bit of guts. You can't do better than that for the potential ROI!!!!

=Matt=

Mark Dickinson · February 25, 2011

Weisel wrote: »

Mark,
I am with Godaddy on some of my web stuff. What do you do for building these little location websites? Are they little Godaddy sites or what? I'm interested in trying this maybe.

I use either wordpress or just a basic html, Im starting some with wordpress like this one: www.wetslr.com. But I think I need something that is easy to edit and copy paste to other sites. (wordpress is probably it)

indiegirl · February 25, 2011

Thanks to everyone who has offered their insight. I've learned so much from this thread!~

AugDog · February 26, 2011

there is a ton of great info on here...
Here are a few of my pointers. I will admit in advance I did not read everything so if there is duplicate info, sorry.

Are you willing to shoot a wedding other than where you live? If so, use sites like list-alert.com or freelancephotojobs.com to find leads that fit you. The catch with these sites, is that the info is coming from posts on CL, and the better leads usually get flagged fast, especially if they state they have a 2-3-4k budget. Based on the time you have check a few times a day. If you get your email to your phone, check it as it comes in and hop on the best leads EARLY!

Facebook and believe it or not Myspace have brought me a great deal of business. Although some people say Myspace is dead or dying, they still have booko millions of profiles. Did you know they allow you to search for age, by distance from Zip and "engaged"??? Proverbial gold mine. Sure it takes some time and effort, but any gold mine will.

Facebook on the other hand is kind of finicky as you try to grow your fan base. Without divulging too much I am up to around 3,000 friends and daily I post things for discounts on various shoots, free engagement shoots, upcoming classes for learning how to take better photos, what ever. Every post leads to new leads. New engaged couples I did not know of before.

Tagging photos on FB is another huge thing that I am not sure most people have thought about how to use. Once a week I tag photos to all of the top FB pages around my area, House of Blues, Ripleys Aquarium, TGI Fridays, etc. I always get new friends requests from that. I also get people requeting to tag that photo for themselves or for a friend. When this happens I always thank them and drop a quick note about me being a photographer.

The last thing I will offer that is a low to no cost option with huge ROI is volunteering to shoot just about anything. I have done kite festivals, breast cancer awareness, local kids in a cooking challenge, etc. The people you meet behind the scenes WILL ASSURADELY become customers in the long run.

I wish you the very best!

Weisel · February 26, 2011

Thanks AugDog. That all sounds like more good advice. I've been trying to make FB work for me, but so far, nothing. I have something like 109 "fans" , or likes, but they are qiuet, and I can't get them to engage in activity. I think once I do, things will break out a lot there. I guess there is a thing with FB where you have to get 2% of your fans to interact, in order for your fan page to show up on people's news feeds? Something like that. I guess I need to get some of my family fans to help me out at first?

As far as tagging "to" some popular pages in your area, I'm not sure I understand this. Let's say TGIFridays, as you mention. What do I do, go and post my own photo on their page, then tag myself? I would like to hear about how you mean this. I'm definately looking to boost my FB presence. The whole fanpage thing seems to be so limiting, with how they restrict interaction from a fan page.

I think it would also be a huge thing to get about 100 peeps to post photos of themselves in the fan album(which only they can create), and then tag themselves, which causes my page activity to post on their walls, which all their friends see.

So, more advice on FB pllllease! ; )

Mark Dickinson · February 27, 2011

Weisel wrote: »

Thanks AugDog. That all sounds like more good advice. I've been trying to make FB work for me, but so far, nothing. I have something like 109 "fans" , or likes, but they are qiuet, and I can't get them to engage in activity. I think once I do, things will break out a lot there. I guess there is a thing with FB where you have to get 2% of your fans to interact, in order for your fan page to show up on people's news feeds? Something like that. I guess I need to get some of my family fans to help me out at first?

As far as tagging "to" some popular pages in your area, I'm not sure I understand this. Let's say TGIFridays, as you mention. What do I do, go and post my own photo on their page, then tag myself? I would like to hear about how you mean this. I'm definately looking to boost my FB presence. The whole fanpage thing seems to be so limiting, with how they restrict interaction from a fan page.

I think it would also be a huge thing to get about 100 peeps to post photos of themselves in the fan album(which only they can create), and then tag themselves, which causes my page activity to post on their walls, which all their friends see.

So, more advice on FB pllllease! ; )

Have you been on my facebook page? www.facebook.com/markdickinsonphoto

?

Mark Dickinson · February 27, 2011

Here's how I do it... I shoot an event/portrait/wedding/business etc etc.

Download, post process
LR export 1600x1000
Watermark the file with: http://a4.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/183938_10150136775233156_114691383155_7813252_7537713_n.jpg <-- facebook image
Then I tag that photo with @megan.... (her profile) from there her friends see it... friends see it have a 'if she did it i have to do it' mentality.'
They comment on it, usually link back to my page, and become a fan,.
A few weeks or days down the road. (offer specials through facebook fan pages)
That spreads it like wildfire. 5700+ fans on mine now. Not like SMUGMUG, where people are coming but for a local to go from that many in 1 year or 2 years is pretty decent

Do a stupid contest.. (looking for the cutest couple) (submit your photos, tell a story) on xx/xx/xx we will have a contest to have our fans vote on the cutest couple. tell your friends! The winner will receive a... (prize/shoot etc) and then now you have all their friends as your fans.

Weisel · February 27, 2011

Mark Dickinson wrote: »

Here's how I do it... I shoot an event/portrait/wedding/business etc etc.

Download, post process
LR export 1600x1000
Watermark the file with: http://a4.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/183938_10150136775233156_114691383155_7813252_7537713_n.jpg <-- facebook image
Then I tag that photo with @megan.... (her profile) from there her friends see it... friends see it have a 'if she did it i have to do it' mentality.'
They comment on it, usually link back to my page, and become a fan,.
A few weeks or days down the road. (offer specials through facebook fan pages)
That spreads it like wildfire. 5700+ fans on mine now. Not like SMUGMUG, where people are coming but for a local to go from that many in 1 year or 2 years is pretty decent

Do a stupid contest.. (looking for the cutest couple) (submit your photos, tell a story) on xx/xx/xx we will have a contest to have our fans vote on the cutest couple. tell your friends! The winner will receive a... (prize/shoot etc) and then now you have all their friends as your fans.

FB has gotten pretty touchy about running contests now. It's pretty much against the rules to offer any type of physical prize for any contest, unless you run it through a 3rd party ap on FB. If you are doing it and not getting banned for it, I'd sure like to know how, and what to do!

I actually have recently placed an offer on CL to shoot a free wedding (on an off peak day) in exchange for 100 new FB fans. The only catch is that they each have to post a photo in a fan album on my fan page, and tag themselves. Then it creates lots of news updates on all those 100 new fans pages, when I post. Etc. I placed the ad yesterday, got an email today. Hopefully this will work out. It's worth it to me.

I'll try what you say about tagging and such. I can't seem to conquer FB yet. I have troubles every time I try to do something on there. I know it's a gold mine now, but I have to dig into it better.

Thanks for the advice Mark.

Weisel · February 27, 2011

For instance, I still can't tag anyone on my FB fan page. It won't let me. What is the secret?

Need advice on breaking out of Craigslist marketing.

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