I Smell Fish

sara505 · March 30, 2011

So - call me paranoid, but this recent e-mail, with the subject line, "Date and Venue," set off my radar.

Hello ,

I am preparing for my Wedding soon which i will
be needing a photographer for that day.So can you handle the photo coverage.
Kindly get back to me with the price it will cost me for the photo
coverage and all necessary information concerning your requirements and
payment, Will you accept Mc/Visa cards for payment because as for now that
is the only convenient way to make payment.So do get back to me with the
price so i can make arrangement for the bookings.Meanwhile i want you to get
back to me with your location and contact details.

Regards,

My reply: (pretty sure it's a scam, based on the syntax and other clues, but what the heck):

[FONT=&quot]Rachael, thank you for your inquiry. In order to answer your questions, I
will first need the date and location of your wedding and approximate hours
you will require my services.
Thank you - I look forward to hearing from you.
Best wishes,

Sara

Her reply:

[/FONT] Sara,

May i have your address,location or if posible your website. So as to reconfirm

To which I responded with:

Rachael, I'm sorry, but the conversation cannot continue without my knowing the date and location of your wedding.

Her reply: Hello Sara ,

So sorry the late in response,here is the details below.

Date: 7/5/2011
Venue: 104 Chester Main Road, North Stonington, CT

So kindly get back to me with your Wedding Package or price list ASAP

And you guessed it - thanks to Google Maps, I see that that address is in the middle of the woods (really, did you know that Google Maps will put you right on the street and let you navigate as if you are walking down the road?).

My last reply to her was:

sorry, I'm a bit confused as your location seems to be nothing but woods.

I haven't heard back from her.

Anyway, just wanted to throw this one out there.
Cheers,

aj986s · March 30, 2011

How often do weddings take place on a Tuesday??

r3t1awr3yd · March 30, 2011

aj986s wrote: »

How often to weddings take place on a Tuesday??

You'd be surprised how brides strapped for cash will try to save money. Weekday weddings are cheaper all around.

sara505 · March 30, 2011

r3t1awr3yd wrote: »

You'd be surprised how brides strapped for cash will try to save money. Weekday weddings are cheaper all around.

This is true -

However - in this situation, the Tuesday date was the other tip-off that all was not kosher here.

Glort · March 30, 2011

The people behind these scams are so damn pathetic.

The bit that never ceases to amaze me is that they get enough people in to make it worth their while.
I suppose this is the occupation the telemarketers that don't make the grade get into. Anoter lot of annoying Barstools.

chrisjohnson · April 2, 2011

I wonder why you thought this was a scam? I would have thought that this person is not that familiar with internet and got your email address somehow as a wedding photographer - perhaps a recommendation even. After all, your address and phone number and other contact details are very easy to find on the net so why ask unless you are one of the 40% of people who are not net-savvy.

Neither do I have that much faith in Google Maps although I love to use it. When I click on your location from your page I end up in the middle of a field. Still, I trust you do really exist and are a photographer. Maybe they have wedding and cash but wonder about your credentials.

There is more and more criminal scamming going on and it is increasingly very sophisticated with tip-top spelling and knowledge of psychology. I don't see this here. Everybody is afraid, including customers.

I would take a hefty deposit and reserve the day in my diary. With their cash in my pocket they can then explain to me exactly how to find their mansion in the woods - it looks to be a classy area. When people ask for ME without knowing my price, I up my rate by 25% - just an idea before you ship your price list.

PS Getting married in mid-week does not mean you are a crook. I did so myself.

sara505 · April 2, 2011

goldenballs wrote: »

I wonder why you thought this was a scam? I would have thought that this person is not that familiar with internet and got your email address somehow as a wedding photographer. After all, your address and phone number and other contact details are very easy to find on the net so why ask unless you are one of the 40% of people who are not net-savvy.

Neither do I have that much faith in Google Maps although I love to use it. When I click on the location from your page I end up in the middle of a field. Still, I trust you do really exist and are a photographer.

There is more and more criminal scamming going on and it is increasingly very sophisticated with tip-top spelling and knowledge of psychology. I don't see this here.

I would take a hefty deposit and reserve the day in my diary. With their cash in my pocket they can then explain to me exactly how to find their mansion in the woods - it looks to be a classy area.

PS Getting married in mid-week does not mean you are a crook. I did so myself.

You end up in a field, really? When I click on any of my three addresses I get an accurate view of my street and the exact buildings that are there. Google even lets me "walk" down the street and observe all of my neighbor's homes, exactly as I know them.

I knew this was a scam because: 1. the language - the syntax, bad grammar, etc. was reminiscent of the Nigerian scams.
2. asking me for my information(even though, as you say, my web address and many other pertinent details are there for the taking - this tells me that this inquiry did not generate from my web page, but rather from a random inquiry)
3. insisting, right off the bat, that the most convenient way to handle it was via credit card, and repeatedly asking for my information.

No, getting married on a Tuesday means nothing - except when you add it to the rest of the story.

Funny - I haven't heard back since questioning the location's being in the woods.

Have fun.

chrisjohnson · April 2, 2011

I tried your site again. There is a "map this" link just below sara piazza photography. Takes me to the same field - in Ireland I think. Hope this helps - maybe I am doing something stupid or my computers have a super bug.

Thanks for the lead, but no thanks.

denisegoldberg · April 2, 2011

goldenballs wrote: »

I tried your site again. There is a "map this" link just below sara piazza photography. Takes me to the same field - in Ireland I think.

The "map this" link on smugmug sites provides a map to where photos are taken (if geo info is provide on the photos, and if the site owner has enabled it). It does not provide a view of where the site's owner resides.

--- Denise

ziggy53 · April 2, 2011

The closest address to: 104 Chester Main Road, North Stonington, CT, that makes any sense is a winery at:

Jonathan Edwards Winery
74 Chester Maine Road, North Stonington, CT 06359
(p) 860.535.0202 * (f) 860.535.2662 * email: info@jedwardswinery.com

They show tours from Wed-Sun, so a Tuesday wedding might even make sense. I do suggest that unless the bride-to-be contacts you again it is probably not worth pursuing.

Here is a wedding at the winery:

http://www.lisarigbyphotography.com/2009/09/julie-tuckers-wedding-at-the-jonathan-edwards-winery-stonington-ct/

Here is the website for the winery:

http://www.jedwardswinery.com/events/host_function.php

Angelo · April 2, 2011

goldenballs wrote: »

I wonder why... this was a scam?...

me too.

besides what appears to be a case of ignorance on Rachel's part, she doesn't seem to be asking for anything that could compromise your finances.

and the language is simple but not really akin to the extremely poor syntax of the "Nigerian" scammers

when I entered the address in Google Earth it revealed a rather large property with several adjacent estates.

.

sara505 · April 2, 2011

Angelo wrote: »

me too.

besides what appears to be a case of ignorance on Rachel's part, she doesn't seem to be asking for anything that could compromise your finances.

and the language is simple but not really akin to the extremely poor syntax of the "Nigerian" scammers

when I entered the address in Google Earth it revealed a rather large property with several adjacent estates.

.

When I ran the address on Google Maps it allowed me to travel, virtually, up and down the road and look on both sides. I saw a large estate farther down the road, but not at #104.

My "map this" apparently is not set up, so you won't find me via my smug site, but if you Google any of my physical addresses, you will see my property, very clearly.

I didn't like any of this - but there's always the chance I'm wrong.

(I have removed names and e-mails so as not to cause further harm if in fact this is all legit)

Angelo · April 2, 2011

and you may be very right. but it's good to explore all sides for the benefit of all dgrinners

Glort · April 3, 2011

sara505 wrote: »

I didn't like any of this - but there's always the chance I'm wrong.

yeah, and once you have been doing this a while you get a real good feel for what people say and you can pretty much tell when people are on the up and up and when they aren't. I say you did the right thing to trust your gut and the lack of a reply backs that up.

Even if you were wrong, chances this would be one of those clients you spend 80% of your time on servicing 20% of them.
I have found over the years it's a much bigger mistake to try and hold on to a client you should let go than let go one you could have held onto.

Dan7312 · April 3, 2011

The essence of a scam is that you don't think they are after your money:D

BTW on addresses with Google Maps. On quite a few occasions I've found that Google is completely wrong in the showing the location of an address. They sometime have the numbers going in the wrong direction on the street which really jumbles things up.

sara505 wrote: »

When I ran the address on Google Maps it allowed me to travel, virtually, up and down the road and look on both sides. I saw a large estate farther down the road, but not at #104.

My "map this" apparently is not set up, so you won't find me via my smug site, but if you Google any of my physical addresses, you will see my property, very clearly.

I didn't like any of this - but there's always the chance I'm wrong.

(I have removed names and e-mails so as not to cause further harm if in fact this is all legit)

orljustin · April 3, 2011

People, it's obviously a scam.

I am preparing for my Wedding soon which i will
be needing a photographer for that day.So can you handle the photo coverage.
Kindly get back to me with the price it will cost me for the photo
coverage and all necessary information concerning your requirements and
payment, Will you accept Mc/Visa cards for payment because as for now that
is the only convenient way to make payment.So do get back to me with the
price so i can make arrangement for the bookings.Meanwhile i want you to get
back to me with your location and contact details.

People in Vermont don't write or speak in such a way - obviously English is not the person's first language. Tip off. #2, the person wants the OP's location and contact details. That info is on the OP's website, so this emailer just was grabbing random email addresses off the net to send the scam to. Three, people don't just pick wedding photographers they've never heard of, met or seen to spend a lot of money on and travel from out of state to do their wedding photography.

Lastly, what will happen is that the scammer will "pay" with a credit card not present, and have the OP forward extra money to someone via a check or Western Union because they are unable to send a check themselves. In a month, the CC payment comes back invalid and OP is out the "extra" money.

Here - choose your scam varient.
http://www.joewein.de/sw/fraud-wedding-photographer.htm

sara505 · April 3, 2011

orljustin wrote: »

People, it's obviously a scam.

[/I]People in Vermont don't write or speak in such a way - obviously English is not the person's first language. Tip off. #2, the person wants the OP's location and contact details. That info is on the OP's website, so this emailer just was grabbing random email addresses off the net to send the scam to. Three, people don't just pick wedding photographers they've never heard of, met or seen to spend a lot of money on and travel from out of state to do their wedding photography.

Lastly, what will happen is that the scammer will "pay" with a credit card not present, and have the OP forward extra money to someone via a check or Western Union because they are unable to send a check themselves. In a month, the CC payment comes back invalid and OP is out the "extra" money.

Here - choose your scam varient.
http://www.joewein.de/sw/fraud-wedding-photographer.htm

Exactly right, which is what I've been trying to say. I knew it from moment-one, I doubted myself for a few seconds when Ziggy (Mister Nice :-) ) weighed in, but people- I "walked" up and down that road, looked left, looked right. There was *nothing* - just woods at that address. And the non response since I wrote, "I'm confused - the address you gave is woods and an empty field" validates my concern.

And yes, the emphasis on the credit card being the only convenient way to pay was the biggest flashing red light (for the reasons stated above).

Art Scott · April 3, 2011

I read the email several times....I did not get the scam feeling, just like others....then I went and read some of my own posts, here , my original blog files (word pad files) and I, a native born american, educated here in america, sounded like some of the actual Nigerian scammers I have gotten scammy emails from....then i searched a bit further going thru several emails from friends that are highly educated ( Masters of Education & Phds.) and found that they also have really bad sounding emails......maybe we as a society get lazy with our typing and relying on spell check and grammar checks, which do not do a very good job straight out of the box (so to speak) ....I know I actually talk a lot different than I do writing emails and posts and so do my college professor friends.......

Sara, you may not have gotten a response to your last message because to me you were accusing her of something without proof......

Google Maps....I love it but as stated above, it is not infallible......I was searching for an address in Lexington Ky last May and it kept placing me in the middle of a horse farm...the address was downtown Lexington.....I mean right in the heart of the Financial District and it is the tallest building in Lexington to boot......also a second address placed me in the middle of the University in Lexington, again it was pretty much down town in the original slave trade area........I do not know whose job it is to input the address but they do make huge mistakes.....

As to credit cards....easy enuff to take care of I will send you an invoice thru Paypal....that is how I accept credit cards...........

Now if the conversation had gone far enuff for the bride to ask if I would pay the caterer or flower conpamy from and over payment to me.....then i would scream scam...

sara505 · April 3, 2011

Art Scott wrote: »

I read the email several times....I did not get the scam feeling, just like others....then I went and read some of my own posts, here , my original blog files (word pad files) and I, a native born american, educated here in america, sounded like some of the actual Nigerian scammers I have gotten scammy emails from....then i searched a bit further going thru several emails from friends that are highly educated ( Masters of Education & Phds.) and found that they also have really bad sounding emails......maybe we as a society get lazy with our typing and relying on spell check and grammar checks, which do not do a very good job straight out of the box (so to speak) ....I know I actually talk a lot different than I do writing emails and posts and so do my college professor friends.......

Sara, you may not have gotten a response to your last message because to me you were accusing her of something without proof......

Google Maps....I love it but as stated above, it is not infallible......I was searching for an address in Lexington Ky last May and it kept placing me in the middle of a horse farm...the address was downtown Lexington.....I mean right in the heart of the Financial District and it is the tallest building in Lexington to boot......also a second address placed me in the middle of the University in Lexington, again it was pretty much down town in the original slave trade area........I do not know whose job it is to input the address but they do make huge mistakes.....

As to credit cards....easy enuff to take care of I will send you an invoice thru Paypal....that is how I accept credit cards...........

Now if the conversation had gone far enuff for the bride to ask if I would pay the caterer or flower conpamy from and over payment to me.....then i would scream scam...

Art, while I agree that sometimes your grammar and spelling may not be great, it was the syntax that seemed a little off in the bride's e-mail.

As to whether "I'm confused, as there's nothing at that address except woods" was an accusation or a bust, I guess we'll never know.

And yes, perhaps on some level I did communicate the fact that I was not really interested in her wedding.

My money (cash, not MC or PP) is on this having been an attempted scam.

Icebear · April 4, 2011

sara505 wrote: »

all was not kosher here.

Well, Sara, if you only want to do Jewish weddings, wyncha just say so.

sara505 · April 4, 2011

Icebear wrote: »

Well, Sara, if you only want to do Jewish weddings, wyncha just say so.

Hey, John - ha ha, good one.

MileHighAko · April 4, 2011

I think you are smart to trust your gut.

Trust your gut, don't look back, no regrets. It's what keeps me out of trouble. Sure, you might miss a real one now and then, but unless you're starving, better to be cautious than deal with getting taken.

This has been a fun thread to follow.

PupWeb · April 5, 2011

Proceed with EXTREME caution

MileHighAko wrote: »

I think you are smart to trust your gut.

Trust your gut, don't look back, no regrets. It's what keeps me out of trouble. Sure, you might miss a real one now and then, but unless you're starving, better to be cautious than deal with getting taken.

This has been a fun thread to follow.

Punt this to some of the more willing photographers on this forum if you want.

This sounds like a scam b/c they are wanting to hurry up and give you money with a charge card.
If you decide to do business with this client, be aware of the following.

There's a way for ID thief's to get a CC in someone else s name. They go and look for service providers that have high ticket cost of goods with out real proof of a transaction made meaning no real goods sold. This would be 50% down for services or 25% to hold a date. You charge their card and everything seems OK. They may even change the date and then you say that will cost X $ more. The crooks say OK I'm really sorry charge my card and for your trouble add a 10% tip.
You charge the card and everything is OK. At the point were the crook doesn't think they can get more $ they disappear.
A few months later you get hate mail from the ID theft victims bank or a charge back is being posted by your CC company, and/or you are being investigated by LEO for receipt of stolen goods.
Your CC company sucked the $ you thought you had out + extra fees for the charge back. The ID theft victims bank is suing you for that same amount of $

You literally fall ill from the stress.

PupWeb · April 5, 2011

Wait how do the crook profit from this?
Crooks set up a charge card via shady international phone cards racket that is like a cc with your stolen ID info they got from doing business with you, or they use a PayPal type service. They charge the victim’s credit card for the amount of $ you charged, then charge the separate, shady international phone cards racket for your services the same amount. They pocket the cash and take down the account and disappear.

Lets say you asked for $500 down.
They use there "stolen Prepaid charge card" to charge $500 Photographer +$500
Crooks uses info from that transaction to create a bogus charge for your services
being to be paid to shady phone card account Crook +$500
Crook cashes out or deposits $500 in offshore internet casino
Crook issues charge back for goods with the card first used. Crook +$500
Photographer cc company request a charge back Photographer -$500, -$50 fees Photographer -$550
Bank of "stolen Prepaid charge card" realize ID theft and wants $500 back from you Photographer -$500
Shady "stolen Prepaid charge card" want $500 from you for the same reason Photographer -$500

Balance Crook +$1000 Photographer -$1000 + $50fees

chrisjohnson · April 5, 2011

PupWeb wrote: »

Crooks set up a charge card via shady international phone cards racket that is like a cc with your stolen ID info they got from doing business with you, or they use a PayPal type service. They charge the victim’s credit card for the amount of $ you charged, then charge the separate, shady international phone cards racket for your services the same amount. They pocket the cash and take down the account and disappear.

Lets say you asked for $500 down.
They use there "stolen Prepaid charge card" to charge $500 Photographer +$500
Crooks uses info from that transaction to create a bogus charge for your services
being to be paid to shady phone card account Crook +$500
Crook cashes out or deposits $500 in offshore internet casino
Crook issues charge back for goods with the card first used. Crook +$500
Photographer cc company request a charge back Photographer -$500, -$50 fees Photographer -$550
Bank of "stolen Prepaid charge card" realize ID theft and wants $500 back from you Photographer -$500
Shady "stolen Prepaid charge card" want $500 from you for the same reason Photographer -$500

Balance Crook +$1000 Photographer -$1000 + $50fees

Thanks for explaining how this might work. I was having some naive European difficulty understanding where the scam could occur. It also explains what happened to me last year in US - I was given an award in the form of a pre-paid Amex card. When I used it the store keeper was all over me for photo ID, wrote down my passport number AND my driving license. In fact she wrote down everything she could about me. I never figured out until now why she was so paranoid.

sara505 · April 5, 2011

PupWeb wrote: »

Crooks set up a charge card via shady international phone cards racket that is like a cc with your stolen ID info they got from doing business with you, or they use a PayPal type service. They charge the victim’s credit card for the amount of $ you charged, then charge the separate, shady international phone cards racket for your services the same amount. They pocket the cash and take down the account and disappear.

Lets say you asked for $500 down.
They use there "stolen Prepaid charge card" to charge $500 Photographer +$500
Crooks uses info from that transaction to create a bogus charge for your services
being to be paid to shady phone card account Crook +$500
Crook cashes out or deposits $500 in offshore internet casino
Crook issues charge back for goods with the card first used. Crook +$500
Photographer cc company request a charge back Photographer -$500, -$50 fees Photographer -$550
Bank of "stolen Prepaid charge card" realize ID theft and wants $500 back from you Photographer -$500
Shady "stolen Prepaid charge card" want $500 from you for the same reason Photographer -$500

Balance Crook +$1000 Photographer -$1000 + $50fees

Absolutely correct.

The only mistake I made in all of this was to have replied to the initial e-mail because what had been a random hit to my e-mail address is now confirmed as having a real-live human being at the other end; I am now in their system.

Icebear · April 5, 2011

sara505 wrote: »

I am now in their system.

Oh, Honey, we're ALL in their systems already.

The issue is no longer privacy but safety. You did right. If you're going to be in business, you MUST put yourself out there and accept some risk. Just (as you did) keep your BS detector turned on at all times.

sara505 · April 5, 2011

Icebear wrote: »

Oh, Honey, we're ALL in their systems already. The issue is no longer privacy but safety. You did right. If you're going to be in business, you MUST put yourself out there and accept some risk. Just (as you did) keep your BS detector turned on at all times.

Yup!

And if I increased anyone's awareness by sharing this story, all the better.

chrisjohnson · April 5, 2011

sara505 wrote: »

Yup!

And if I increased anyone's awareness by sharing this story, all the better.

You increased mine ... eventually.

PupWeb · April 5, 2011

These crooks are very organized, and are very hard to catch. My brother is a Law Enforcement Officer (LEO) that happened to be almost scammed. It started with a phone call to my house. This guy with an strong accent said his name was Brian Jones -flag went up up there. "Brian Jones" was working for "national Credit Agency" and he was looking for my brother to pay for a loan or he would be charged with a felony. I got "Brian Jones" phone number and called my brother who was on duty. He called to see what was going on and knew it was a scam immediately. He went along with it and said he would get the money wire details and call him back. He actually went and set up a call trace back to this guy. When "Brian Jones" got back on the phone, my brother started asking him a lot of questions to find out more about him which "Brian" revealed little. My brother did find out that the scammers got his info from a loan he made a while back and that's were they got my phone number b/c my bro used my phone number as another contact #.
When My bro told "Brian Jones" that he was a cop and that his call had been traced to "He said the address the call was from. "Brian hung up the phone. Within minute that phone number was disconnected.
My brother is now on the banks @$$ for them to explain how confidential loan information was made available. My bro. doubts anything will happen of it, unfortunately ID theft scams do pay with little chance of being prosecuted.

Angelo · April 5, 2011

goldenballs wrote: »

thanks for explaining how this might work[...]

+1

.

I Smell Fish

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