7D Auto Focus

J Allen · April 30, 2011

Question about the auto focus on the 7D.....

Just bought this camera about a month or two ago, and it seems like a lot of my pictures are coming out soft. I've been using two different lenses on it, the 70-200 2.8 IS and 24-70 2.8. What I'm noticing, is that when I hit the shutter to focus, sometimes the focus point selector will turn red, and other times it will just stay black...but give me the "beep" telling me that focus has been achieved. Any thoughts on what cause's this to happen, seems like when it achieves focus and the selector is red..it's much sharper....but I can't seem to figure out what setting...or custom function is causing my issue. Going through the manual seems to point to a CF setting.....Do any of you have any tips?

:ear

Nikolai · April 30, 2011

J Allen wrote: »

Question about the auto focus on the 7D.....

Just bought this camera about a month or two ago, and it seems like a lot of my pictures are coming out soft. I've been using two different lenses on it, the 70-200 2.8 IS and 24-70 2.8. What I'm noticing, is that when I hit the shutter to focus, sometimes the focus point selector will turn red, and other times it will just stay black...but give me the "beep" telling me that focus has been achieved. Any thoughts on what cause's this to happen, seems like when it achieves focus and the selector is red..it's much sharper....but I can't seem to figure out what setting...or custom function is causing my issue. Going through the manual seems to point to a CF setting.....Do any of you have any tips?

I don't use my 7D too much (it's a spare for my 5DII), but IIRC "red flash" is simply a matter of grid illumination in case it's dark... Not really a reason for actual sharpness...
HTH

ThatCanonGuy · April 30, 2011

I think they're supposed to turn red, that means the camera has locked focus. They light up red on my 1DII when it has achieved focus. If they stay black and do not change their appearance from before you started focus, then it sounds like manual focus, Ring of Fire (all focus point, camera selects which one), or AI Servo.

Any help? And this is in Single Shot AF, correct?

Nikolai · April 30, 2011

ThatCanonGuy wrote: »

I think they're supposed to turn red, that means the camera has locked focus. They light up red on my 1DII when it has achieved focus. If they stay black and do not change their appearance from before you started focus, then it sounds like manual focus, Ring of Fire (all focus point, camera selects which one), or AI Servo.

Any help? And this is in Single Shot AF, correct?

7D is different from the older bodies...

ThatCanonGuy · April 30, 2011

Yeah, I know. You'd think they'd keep the same basic AF point appearance, though. Yes, they are smaller, but do they blink the same?

Dunno.

Nikolai · April 30, 2011

ThatCanonGuy wrote: »

Yeah, I know. You'd think they'd keep the same basic AF point appearance, though. Yes, they are smaller, but do they blink the same? Dunno.

They are, in fact, much larger, and no, they do not blink the same

ThatCanonGuy · May 1, 2011

The 7D AF boxes (points) are larger than the 1D2/1Ds2 points? I have used a 7D, and I remember them being much smaller. Maybe that's in some special mode? And if they don't blink the same then I can't help

Matthew Saville · May 1, 2011

There may also be an option to turn on / off the "illumination" (red) for focus points. At least there is on Nikon, and I've handled the 7D a LOT too and vaguely remember seeing various different AF settings.

The 7D has BOTH the teeny-tiny AF box "dots", and also the larger squares. I'm not sure exactly how since I don't have a camera in my hands right now but I'm pretty sure that is customizable...

It sounds to me like you are using "all points" AF mode, and need to individually select AF points and move them around the viewfinder for maximum sharpness consistency. If you let the camera pick the AF point, it will always pick it's own focus point.

Time to dig deep into the AF menu customization! I posted a full explanation somewhere but don't know where it is, dang. Hmm, lemme search Gmail. Found it. I apologize if some of the wording is out of context:

Here's how I recommend setting up your 7D. This is going to be complicated, unfortunately...

In custom functions section 3 / III:

III-1: AI Servo tracking sensitivity - set this one to zero

III-2: AI Servo 1st/2nd img priority - set this one to #2, (release/drive) if you want it to just blaze away whether or not anything is in focus, or set it to #0 if you want it to always confirm focus before firing a shot. (Kinda annoying if you ever take the focus point away from the subject, so I don't use this.)

III-3: AF Servo AF tracking method - set this to main focus point priority

III-4: Lens drive when AF impossible - set this to focus search on

III-5: AF Microadjustment - turn this on, but make SURE all your lenses are saved at zero unless you do a careful test and CONFIRM that a lens needs front/back focus correction.

III-6: Select AF area selec. mode - Um, excuse me? WHAT? Okay, don't panic, this is a lot simpler than it sounds.

Set to "enable", and then register JUST one of the following: "spot AF" for a teeny tiny focus point, (hard to be accurate in active situations) or "single point AF" for a slightly larger focus point. (a little better for hand-holding and focusing on anything that is even slightly moving)

NOTE: This is where many people have the most trouble with the 7D. This is just one heck of a complicated option, it might as well be Latin. So, a couple of questions about how you usually shoot: Do you like to just use ONE focus point at a time, and always be in control of WHICH focus point that is? If yes, then you're good to go, move on. If not, then you need to "register" some other options for more dynamic focusing. Basically, most of it is "idiot friendly" options that really only serve to complicate things. I'd just enable either spot AF or single point AF, after testing to see which gives you more accuracy. Leave all the other options turned OFF, and don't worry about them. You're a pro and you're going straight to the advanced, complete-control use of the camera.

If however you DO need to enable multi-point focusing, if maybe you're photographing sports, then yeah you can certainly use "auto select", or "zone AF", or AF point expansion". Personally for sports and things I might just use AF point expansion, but honestly that's just another setting to worry about.

Okay, moving on...

III-7: Manual AF point selection pattern - set this to "stop at edges" to avoid any confusion, but change it later if you'd like to be able to "bump" your focus point from the far left to the far right etc. with just one click. (I think this is how this works, at least that's what it does on Nikon.)

III-8: VF display illumination - set this to "enable"

III-9: Display all AF points - set this to "disable", unless you LIKE seeing that many focus points all over the place!

III-10: Focus display in AI Servo/MF - set this to "enable", but it only matters if you ever tell the camera to choose a focus point for you. Which I don't think I've done in at least two years

...

III-11: AF-assist beam firing - I prefer to stick with "IR beam only" so that the pop-up flash doesn't blind people when trying to focus in low light.

III-12: Orientation linked AF point - leave this "off", #0...

NEXT, make sure that a couple other settings, in the "Operation / Others" section, (IV) are set as follows:

IV-1: Custom controls -

* shutter button half-press - make sure this is set to "metering and AF start" if you like the shutter to be in charge of AF, OR if you like to use ONLY your thumb for autofocus, just leave it at "metering start."

* AF-ON button - if your thumb can easily reach this button, then set it to the first option and use it for AF-ON when desired. However, if it's too hard to reach and you'd prefer to use the asterisk button, just leave it and...

* AE lock button - ...set this one to "Metering and AF start" (the second option) if it is easier for your thumb to reach this one and you really want to do back-button focusing. (I use it a lot, dunno if we've talked about that before...)

....scrolling down towards the last options...

* Multi-controller - Set this to AF point direct selection if you like to move the focus point around easily without having to first press that button on the upper right back of the camera. However if you almost ALWAYS use focus-recompose, (though I don't recommend that) ...you can leave this option off.

FINALLY, of course make a non-menu check of all AF options, including the One-Shot and AI-Servo options, etc. And of course there is always the option that the camera needs calibration; I would just automatically consider that any camera needs a tune-up every 1-2 years.

=Matt=

Gringriff · May 9, 2011

Thanks Matt. I will use this as a reference.

Andy

photodad1 · May 10, 2011

I use a 7D with a 70-200mm f2.8L non-IS. What are you taking photos of?

Gringriff · May 10, 2011

photodad1 wrote: »

I use a 7D with a 70-200mm f2.8L non-IS. What are you taking photos of?

Hi photodad,

Not sure who you were asking but I like to shoot sports like soccer, motocross, basketball, football, wrestling, cornhole, etc.. and people.

Time to change my signature from 50D to 7D!

photodad1 · May 10, 2011

7D Auto Focus

J Allen wrote: »

Question about the auto focus on the 7D.....

Just bought this camera about a month or two ago, and it seems like a lot of my pictures are coming out soft. I've been using two different lenses on it, the 70-200 2.8 IS and 24-70 2.8. What I'm noticing, is that when I hit the shutter to focus, sometimes the focus point selector will turn red, and other times it will just stay black...but give me the "beep" telling me that focus has been achieved. Any thoughts on what cause's this to happen, seems like when it achieves focus and the selector is red..it's much sharper....but I can't seem to figure out what setting...or custom function is causing my issue. Going through the manual seems to point to a CF setting.....Do any of you have any tips?

I use a 7D with a 70-200mm f2.8L non-IS. What are you taking photos of?

Sam · May 10, 2011

J Allen wrote: »

Question about the auto focus on the 7D.....

Just bought this camera about a month or two ago, and it seems like a lot of my pictures are coming out soft. I've been using two different lenses on it, the 70-200 2.8 IS and 24-70 2.8. What I'm noticing, is that when I hit the shutter to focus, sometimes the focus point selector will turn red, and other times it will just stay black...but give me the "beep" telling me that focus has been achieved. Any thoughts on what cause's this to happen, seems like when it achieves focus and the selector is red..it's much sharper....but I can't seem to figure out what setting...or custom function is causing my issue. Going through the manual seems to point to a CF setting.....Do any of you have any tips?

Hi Joe,

NOTE: This is the short version.

I don't know if this will help you or not, but I purchased a used 7D last Saturday. On Sunday I took it out and shot a 10K race and also went to a dog park and shot running dogs.

My reason for purchasing the 7D was to get a camera with a better AF system then my 5D II for sports and fast moving subjects.

All looked great with a quick look on the LCD. When I got home I downloaded them into my computer and started looking at them.

I was very disappointed! While viewing at less than one to one %100 the images appeared sharp, but when viewed at %100 most were soft and or out of focus.

On Sunday morning I tested my 5D II and the 7D with the same lens. Shooting a ruler set at an angle I was able to determine the 7D was not front or back focusing. Again the image looked sharp when viewed at less than %100, but soft / blurry at %100.

When the same images were taken with the 5D II and viewed on the computer, the image quality and sharpness was consistent at any viewing level.

Another thing I noticed was that even when say a runners shirt was very sharp with excellent detail (very rare) the face seemed to possess an unflattering plastic quality.

I spoke at length with Canon and the unscientific diagnosis was that the camera performance was not normal or typical and was most likely out of calibration and should be re-calibrated.

Since the cost of calibration plus what I paid for it would be cost / benefit prohibitive I returned the camera.

Sam

PS: The focus point does not light up red for focus conformation. There is a green circle on the bottom right that will light up along with a focus conformation beep.

Matthew Saville · May 10, 2011

Sam wrote: »

Hi Joe,

NOTE: This is the short version.

I don't know if this will help you or not, but I purchased a used 7D last Saturday. On Sunday I took it out and shot a 10K race and also went to a dog park and shot running dogs.

My reason for purchasing the 7D was to get a camera with a better AF system then my 5D II for sports and fast moving subjects.

All looked great with a quick look on the LCD. When I got home I downloaded them into my computer and started looking at them.

I was very disappointed! While viewing at less than one to one %100 the images appeared sharp, but when viewed at %100 most were soft and or out of focus.

On Sunday morning I tested my 5D II and the 7D with the same lens. Shooting a ruler set at an angle I was able to determine the 7D was not front or back focusing. Again the image looked sharp when viewed at less than %100, but soft / blurry at %100.

When the same images were taken with the 5D II and viewed on the computer, the image quality and sharpness was consistent at any viewing level.

Another thing I noticed was that even when say a runners shirt was very sharp with excellent detail (very rare) the face seemed to possess an unflattering plastic quality.

I spoke at length with Canon and the unscientific diagnosis was that the camera performance was not normal or typical and was most likely out of calibration and should be re-calibrated.

Since the cost of calibration plus what I paid for it would be cost / benefit prohibitive I returned the camera.

Sam

PS: The focus point does not light up red for focus conformation. There is a green circle on the bottom right that will light up along with a focus conformation beep.

Sam,

I am quite sure that you can set up the AF points to illuminate during focusing, either in "all-points" mode the camera will pick a point and illuminate whichever points are in focus, or if individually selecting a focus point it will illuminate by default when half-pressing the shutter, though that does not indicate focus confirmation, it is just an aide for you to see the focus point in dim light...

Also, I can definitely say that having shot weddings with the 7D and 5D mk2 side by side, I can say that the 7D is capapble of VERY sharp images, absolutely, and I see almost no difference in fine detail when using similar lenses in similar light. Yes, the 7D has a MUCH more un-forgiving motion blur threshhold, since it is cramming 18 megapixels into a crop sensor intstead of 21 megapixels in a full-frame sensor. (let alone 12 MP in a full-frame sensor; oh how I love those "forgiving" pixels!) So, much of the time, issues with softness when comparing a 7D and a 5D mk2 can come from simply not achieving the tolerances / standards that such a high-resolution, small-sensor camera requires to achieve perfect detail. Case in point- try locking the two cameras down on a tripod, and shooting a still-life with a cable release. You'll see almost no difference, unless you truly pixel peep at the colors and tones.

=Matt=

Overfocused · May 10, 2011

I use the 7D and 5DMKII interchangeably, and my experience has been that the 7D hasn't been as razor-sharp accurate as the MKII as often (it is, but just less often), sometimes even on the needle-point spot focusing it doesn't do it right as much. However, it is much much faster and that behavior can still be adjusted in many ways. That's just my experience and maybe you might need to try a slower AF speed or a specific setting to do what you need to do in the situations you're in. I have it set to toggle between full AF and manual point select with the 4 way dial, and leave the others out. It simplifies things.

Personally I prefer the MKII for the AF button configuration because you never have to press more than one button to toggle AF modes. With the right settings it is amazingly accurate, even in fast-action sports. On the 7D you gotta click 2 buttons in order to select AF modes, which puts a wrench in the flow of thought when my brain is on auto-pilot for selecting the right focus settings. I'll get better at it

Matt's instructions are something you definitely want to keep

J Allen · May 10, 2011

Great stuff here guys, thanks for all these tips! I have been reading along, and I think it sounds like what Sam was explaining, the front and back focus....maybe I just need it calibrated. I just hate sending it out. I'm going to give Matts suggestion a try and see what happens first. Here's a shot I took at a ball game of my son...to me it just looks soft..shot with my 70-200 2.8L IS....I locked focus on his face..

J Allen · May 10, 2011

Another one that looks soft to me:

DeVerm · May 10, 2011

My 7D with 70-200L IS shoots tack sharp images. I think you need to do the test shots for micro-adjustment to find out if anything is wrong with your body or lens. When I did this, the 70-200L was the only lens that needed no micro-adjustment at all !!

Below a photo of 7D + 70-200L at F2.8. You can click it for std smugmug view incl. 1:1 display.

ciao!
Nick.

Edit: even better one: this is a 1:1 crop at f4.5

Gringriff · May 10, 2011

J Allen - Have you tried the micro adjustment yet? I wonder if that would help. I tried experimenting with the micro adjustment last night (just got the camera yesterday) and it seems like +5 or +6 might be best for my 70-200 f/2.8 non-IS. Now I need to take some practice shots.

EDIT: I see you beat me too it with a nice illustration.

Sam · May 10, 2011

Matthew Saville wrote: »

Sam,

I am quite sure that you can set up the AF points to illuminate during focusing, either in "all-points" mode the camera will pick a point and illuminate whichever points are in focus, or if individually selecting a focus point it will illuminate by default when half-pressing the shutter, though that does not indicate focus confirmation, it is just an aide for you to see the focus point in dim light...

Also, I can definitely say that having shot weddings with the 7D and 5D mk2 side by side, I can say that the 7D is capapble of VERY sharp images, absolutely, and I see almost no difference in fine detail when using similar lenses in similar light. Yes, the 7D has a MUCH more un-forgiving motion blur threshhold, since it is cramming 18 megapixels into a crop sensor intstead of 21 megapixels in a full-frame sensor. (let alone 12 MP in a full-frame sensor; oh how I love those "forgiving" pixels!) So, much of the time, issues with softness when comparing a 7D and a 5D mk2 can come from simply not achieving the tolerances / standards that such a high-resolution, small-sensor camera requires to achieve perfect detail. Case in point- try locking the two cameras down on a tripod, and shooting a still-life with a cable release. You'll see almost no difference, unless you truly pixel peep at the colors and tones.

=Matt=

Matt,

I only had the darn thing for two days so I am not an expert, but I did read and play with the focus options. While it seems to have some sort of illumination going on, it is not the same as the selected focus point lighting up to confirm focus acquisition. That is done with a green dot / circle located at the bottom right of the view finder.

I am really not clear about your claim that the 7D is much more sensitive to camera shake. Not saying it isn't, but I have never heard this statement before. Does your claim also include subject movement? Are you claiming that when using the 7D one would need to shoot sports with a higher shutter speed than say a 5D II given the subject and speed are the same?

Just asking,

Sam

Sam · May 10, 2011

Joe,

Both of the images you posted are unacceptable with regard to sharpness.

It's hard to see if there is any front or back focus with the small image size and lack of detail in front and back of the subject.

You can run a quick test by putting the camera on a tripod, use a release cable and shoot a ruler elevated at one end by about 20 degrees or so.

Place the ruler with the 1" end nearest the camera and the 12" end away from the camera. Raise the far end 2 or 4 inches. Shoot straight down the length of the ruler and focus on the 6. It will now be easy to see if there is any front or back focus be determining where the focus is.

If everything is soft the camera needs to be looked at.

Sam

DeVerm · May 10, 2011

Sam wrote: »

While it seems to have some sort of illumination going on, it is not the same as the selected focus point lighting up to confirm focus acquisition. That is done with a green dot / circle located at the bottom right of the view finder.

I just tested this and can confirm it works like Matt described. The focus point(s) that reached focus - and the grid if enabled - flash red at the same moment that the green dot appears.

The camera setting is C.FnIII #8 - VF display illumination.

cheers,
Nick.

Sam · May 10, 2011

DeVerm wrote: »

I just tested this and can confirm it works like Matt described. The focus point(s) that reached focus - and the grid if enabled - flash red at the same moment that the green dot appears.

The camera setting is C.FnIII #8 - VF display illumination.

cheers,
Nick.

OK I be wrong. Never happened before.................and I won't let it happen again.

Sam

DeVerm · May 10, 2011

Sam wrote: »

OK I be wrong. Never happened before.................and I won't let it happen again.

The thing I didn't say is that I actually had to try it... which means I didn't know for sure, while I use the camera every day

Now I think of it, I also enabled the focus beep confirmation and use that mostly.

cheers,
Nick.

photodad1 · May 10, 2011

Gringriff wrote: »

J Allen - Have you tried the micro adjustment yet? I wonder if that would help. I tried experimenting with the micro adjustment last night (just got the camera yesterday) and it seems like +5 or +6 might be best for my 70-200 f/2.8 non-IS. Now I need to take some practice shots.

EDIT: I see you beat me too it with a nice illustration.

What is the micro adjustment setting?

DeVerm · May 10, 2011

photodad1 wrote: »

What is the micro adjustment setting?

See my post here: http://www.dgrin.com/showpost.php?p=1580774&postcount=86

it has a link to a pdf that has both the test-target and the instructions. It worked 100% for the 7D.

ciao!
Nick.

photodad1 · May 10, 2011

DeVerm wrote: »

See my post here: http://www.dgrin.com/showpost.php?p=1580774&postcount=86

it has a link to a pdf that has both the test-target and the instructions. It worked 100% for the 7D.

ciao!
Nick.

Thanks!

Matthew Saville · May 12, 2011

Sam wrote: »

Matt,

I only had the darn thing for two days so I am not an expert, but I did read and play with the focus options. While it seems to have some sort of illumination going on, it is not the same as the selected focus point lighting up to confirm focus acquisition. That is done with a green dot / circle located at the bottom right of the view finder.

I am really not clear about your claim that the 7D is much more sensitive to camera shake. Not saying it isn't, but I have never heard this statement before. Does your claim also include subject movement? Are you claiming that when using the 7D one would need to shoot sports with a higher shutter speed than say a 5D II given the subject and speed are the same?

Just asking,

Sam

You are correct sir, when using ONE focus point at a time it will not illuminate to "confirm focus", it illuminiates only to help you see in low light. Or, as we've just discussed, when using "all points" you will indeed get illumination for "confirmed" focus points. But that's more of an idiot-friendly mode; I almost *ALWAYS* use individual focus points.

With respect to pixel density issues- Simply put, YES, greater pixel densities will amplify error. Just the same as greater focal lengths amplify error. Subject motion won't make a difference from one sensor size to another, if you're using equivalent focal lengths. At first it's hard to wrap your mind around, and most people don't think about it in general, but it's definitley an issue. I shoot with two identical resolution cameras, with nearly identical autofocus mechanics and identical focal lengths, and I can definitely say that my D700 is much more forgiving with shutter speed than my D300. With the D300, I try and *double* my shutter speed rule of thumb, whereas with the D700 I can actually go *below* the rule...

=Matt=

DeVerm · May 12, 2011

Matthew Saville wrote: »

You are correct sir, when using ONE focus point at a time it will not illuminate to "confirm focus", it illuminiates only to help you see in low light. Or, as we've just discussed, when using "all points" you will indeed get illumination for "confirmed" focus points. But that's more of an idiot-friendly mode; I almost *ALWAYS* use individual focus points.

huh?! this means that Canon must have changed this in the firmware. I am using the latest (1.2.3) and I -do- get the red flashing focus point and grid even with one focus point and with spot-focus.

cheers,
Nick.

Damon016 · May 12, 2011

http://www.flickr.com/groups/canon_7d_digital_slr/discuss/72157623338570279/

On the record, I love my 7D - generally find that the softness is because of me being right at 2.8 and chasing images vs. dead still. If you get right up on someones face with that 70-200 you will find it's super sharp, but of course blurry just outside of that. I read a bit through your posts, but not all - let me ask you this. Have you tried going to 5.6 or higher and shooting the same subject? I see the entire image is soft just wondering what they would produce (settings.)

I would seriously take it back and return it for another however if you're getting the same thing over.

Also check this link!
http://www.michaelmiles.com/2010/03/06/answer-fixing-canon-7d-focus-issue/

http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=832352

One more that discusses the auto-focus..

Sam · May 12, 2011

Matt,

I am not questioning your experience, and I do understand your explanation, yet.....................based on this the 5D II should be better at capturing fast moving objects than ether the 7D or the 1D IV.

I was (am) looking at the 7D as a sports camera. If I need to shoot at higher ISO (7D ISO performance less than 5D II) to get a higher shutter speed than needed with a 5D II it seems like this would be defeating the purpose of getting the 7D.

I am at this time getting leery of the 7D as a viable camera for me.

The 7D has 232 pixels per mm. The 1D IV has 175 pixels per mm, and the 5D II has 156 pixels per mm.

Meaning that for any movement, subject or camera the subject would travel through more pixels on the 7D or 1D IV sensors than the 5D II sensor. This supports your claim of the 7D needing more care when shooting moving subjects.

One could conclude therefor that with more pixels per mm that more detail would be captured with the 7D or 1D IV than the 5D II, but as far as the 7D is concerned it doesn't match the detail captured with the 5D II.

I need Scotch...........and lots of it.

Sam

7D Auto Focus

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