Photography Education and Software

Coney_Island_Gary · May 22, 2011

I purchased my first SLR camera in 1977. My friend helped me get started with photography. I have always been a hobbyist, no intention of doing photography for a fee. I am now on my fourth DSLR. I am also retired and decided to learn how to properly use my Nikon D7000. I enrolled in a beginning photography course at the local community college. This school offers an AAS in Photography (Not my goal) but that is the strength of their program.

Early in the semester there were two lectures, which covered BDE, Exposure, Aperture, Depth of Field, and Rule of Thirds. The rest of the semester (14 weeks) was nothing but Photoshop 5.

Here is my question:

Have I missed something? Is there no need to have instruction on how to capture an image? Is there no need to have someone with knowledge help interpret the poorly written owner’s manual? Based on this class, there does not seem to be a reason to purchase anything other than the most basic camera and CS5, as CS5 will enhance any image to perfection.

I just do not get it.

Sam · May 23, 2011

I think what your looking at is a school with a class and teaching structure based on many classes teaching in depth over time, rather than one class covering everything superficially.

I think if you read the summary of what the subjects the class teaches you will find that maybe this wasn't the best first class choice for you.

Stay with it you will need basic PS knowledge later. Pick your next class based on light, composition etc.

Sam

Coney_Island_Gary · May 23, 2011

Sam wrote: »

I think what your looking at is a school with a class and teaching structure based on many classes teaching in depth over time, rather than one class covering everything superficially.

I think if you read the summary of what the subjects the class teaches you will find that maybe this wasn't the best first class choice for you.

Stay with it you will need basic PS knowledge later. Pick your next class based on light, composition etc.

Sam

Course Information:

"PHOT-125 3 units Digital Photography Production I LEC 48-54 This course provides critical, practical, technical, and creative instruction, in addition to guided practice pertaining to digital photographic theory and practice utilizing digital imaging software and digital photographic equipment. It covers fundamental photographic principles and theory as well as a comprehensive introduction into the realm of the digital Light room (photography in the age of new media). The processes involved with digital photographic production will be covered along with their relationship to traditional photography. *Cross-listed as MUL-124. May be taken 4 times for credit. Prerequisite: None. Recommended Preparation: MUL-110. --Transfers to both UC/CSU"

Did I make a mistake? This is the first class in the Photography curriculum and is the prerequisite for all other Photography courses.

Gary

Sam · May 23, 2011

Coney_Island_Gary wrote: »

Course Information:

"PHOT-125 3 units Digital Photography Production I LEC 48-54 This course provides critical, practical, technical, and creative instruction, in addition to guided practice pertaining to digital photographic theory and practice utilizing digital imaging software and digital photographic equipment. It covers fundamental photographic principles and theory as well as a comprehensive introduction into the realm of the digital Light room (photography in the age of new media). The processes involved with digital photographic production will be covered along with their relationship to traditional photography. *Cross-listed as MUL-124. May be taken 4 times for credit. Prerequisite: None. Recommended Preparation: MUL-110. --Transfers to both UC/CSU"

Did I make a mistake? This is the first class in the Photography curriculum and is the prerequisite for all other Photography courses.

Gary

Don't think it was a mistake on your part. The synopses of the course can be interpreted in many ways.

Typical University speak, say everything, say nothing. Use lots of words. Washington DC has embraced this to the max.

Again the school is designing a large number of courses to (hopefully) cover photography in detail, although they may not cover it in a sequence that you, or I believe to be the most logical.

Hang in there.

Sam

Coney_Island_Gary · May 24, 2011

Sam wrote: »

Don't think it was a mistake on your part. The synopses of the course can be interpreted in many ways.

Typical University speak, say everything, say nothing. Use lots of words. Washington DC has embraced this to the max.

Again the school is designing a large number of courses to (hopefully) cover photography in detail, although they may not cover it in a sequence that you, or I believe to be the most logical.

Hang in there.

Sam

Thanks for the comments. I am on my way to the final class. I have to turn in 75 images, which were to be adjusted with CS5 layers, mask, etc. Ha ha, I used Capture NX2 on all of them as I do not know how to use CS5. Oh well, here comes an "F" for the semester.

Gary

Sam · May 24, 2011

Coney_Island_Gary wrote: »

Thanks for the comments. I am on my way to the final class. I have to turn in 75 images, which were to be adjusted with CS5 layers, mask, etc. Ha ha, I used Capture NX2 on all of them as I do not know how to use CS5. Oh well, here comes an "F" for the semester.

Gary

:bash :bash :bash :bash :bash :bash

Let's back up! In your first post you said 14 weeks of the class was learning CS5. You apparently stayed in class all that time, yet now you say you don't know how to use CS5 and used an alternate image processing package that doesn't seem to have layers and masks which is the point of the final project, and will fail the course????????????????

Why even bother? :bash :bash :bash :bash

Sam

Coney_Island_Gary · May 25, 2011

Sam wrote: »

:bash :bash :bash :bash :bash :bash

Let's back up! In your first post you said 14 weeks of the class was learning CS5. You apparently stayed in class all that time, yet now you say you don't know how to use CS5 and used an alternate image processing package that doesn't seem to have layers and masks which is the point of the final project, and will fail the course????????????????

Why even bother? :bash :bash :bash :bash

Sam

Overfocused · May 25, 2011

I have an AAS and all my classes were named after what they were about. I.E. 'Photoshop I' 'Photoshop II' 'Portraiture' 'Advanced Portraiture' 'Black and White Darkroom' 'Intro to Photography' 'Digital Color Production' etc...

It wasn't some jumbled mess like you're describing. You've got some poor curriculum from what it sounds like. I went to a community college and they were amazing teachers that knew their stuff, but most importantly they knew how to teach and had organized the curriculum in a smooth steam-lined fashion that anyone could learn from the ground up. We were taught to take good pictures so you could minimize use in PS, but were also taught in other classes on the wonderful things PS can do that saves time from real world setup, and, stuff you just can't do in the real world. And the only time we ever got graded on our use of Photoshop was in photoshop class. It didn't matter how we did it outside of that.

What you seem to have here is a shotgun photography course. They're housing a mess of 9 or 10 subjects into 1 shell of a course, and blasting it at you expecting you to catch it all while it flies by. A good curriculum should be progressive and should have 1 or 2 main aspects to be learning and working on, not everything at once.

Take such good pictures it looks like it was photoshopped, and then drop it on them that you didn't use CS5 at all. Maybe you'll get extra credit? lol

scootac · May 26, 2011

Coney_Island_Gary wrote: »

I cannot believe that in order to take good photos, one must become an expert in the art of Photoshop CS5.

Gary

You don't.
But so many people are more willing to sit at a computer for hours on end rather than go out and spend time with their camera in different light/weather conditions. There's beautiful light an hour or so at sunrise/sunset,,, but how many people are out and about at 5AM to see it? They would rather take a photo at 11 AM,,, then spend 3 hours trying to get the light right through a software program. Goes back to the saying, "You can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear". Find a different course, maybe talk to instructors before signing up. Sounds like you just got a bad course. Not everything at a university is golden. They deal in crap too!

Coney_Island_Gary · May 26, 2011

Overfocused- I wish that this school had a different approach to photography; however, my Professor (the Department Head) is very proud of his program and will not make any changes to the format.

Scootac- I spoke with this Professor prior to enrolling in his course. He raved about taking novice students and turning them into competent photographers. However, I thought that it was strange when he stated, “You will need a Full Frame camera in order to be a successful photographer. Without this equipment you will only be able to take snapshots at best.”

I guess I will return to a trial and error approach to photography.

Gary

Overfocused · May 26, 2011

Coney_Island_Gary wrote: »

<style>  </style> Overfocused- I wish that this school had a different approach to photography; however, my Professor (the Department Head) is very proud of his program and will not make any changes to the format.

Scootac- I spoke with this Professor prior to enrolling in his course. He raved about taking novice students and turning them into competent photographers. However, I thought that it was strange when he stated, “You will need a Full Frame camera in order to be a successful photographer. Without this equipment you will only be able to take snapshots at best.”

I guess I will return to a trial and error approach to photography.

Gary

Wow... just wow. Huge red flag. Flake alert! Never learn photography from scratch from someone that thinks like that. That guy is full of something... pride, himself, and ignorance mainly. He's not too interested in actually teaching the students how to be good photographers, more like he wants to teach them how to be like him rather than grow as individuals with their own talent. He also sounds like a camera marketing rep more than a teacher. My professor and all of the faculty say just the opposite - The camera doesn't make a good photograph... you do. As long as it can take the picture and you put your talent into it, it doesn't necessarily matter that it has 50 gigapixels. Now my (former) professor mainly carries a pocket sized point and shoot Canon if he's not on a serious job. And yes... he can take great pictures with it.

scootac · May 27, 2011

Overfocused wrote: »

Wow... just wow. Huge red flag. Flake alert! Never learn photography from scratch from someone that thinks like that. That guy is full of something... pride, himself, and ignorance mainly. He's not too interested in actually teaching the students how to be good photographers, more like he wants to teach them how to be like him rather than grow as individuals with their own talent. He also sounds like a camera marketing rep more than a teacher.

A good analysis! Full of himself and his ego. And assuredly an equipment snob.
A true "artist" or 'craftsman' can make art out of the most simple and basic of tools. When that skill does not exist, is when 'better' tools come in to play.

BayMare · June 5, 2011

1. You have the option of making an appointment with the Department Head and negotiating a partial return of your course fee by explaining what was offered is not what was received. If several students were dissatisfied, you may wish to meet first and appoint a spokesperson. Depending on the policies of the university, you may or may not be successful. If nothing else, you will have had the opportunity to express your feelings.
2. Did you express your concern after the 5<SUP>th</SUP> or 6<SUP>th</SUP> class? Ask for clarification during or after the lectures? A person must be their own advocate or nothing will change.
3. Having been a hobbyist since 1977 and having owned 4 DLSRs, you are likely familiar enough with the basics to be ready to shoot in RAW for which you do need to be familiar with post processing software. The best film photographers knew how to manipulate their negatives in the darkroom. It is not all straight out of the camera.
4. Did the professor inform the students, at the beginning, that access to CS5 would be expected? Is it available for use at the college to those students who do not own a program? Usually, there is a list of what will be needed to complete a course.
5. There are dozens of video and text tutorials on the net. It may be that they will better suit your learning style and interests. Before selling your gear, make a list of what you would like to have covered in your ideal photography course, and then start searching.
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divamum · June 6, 2011

BayMare wrote: »

1. You have the option of making an appointment with the Department Head and negotiating a partial return of your course fee by explaining what was offered is not what was received. If several students were dissatisfied, you may wish to meet first and appoint a spokesperson. Depending on the policies of the university, you may or may not be successful. If nothing else, you will have had the opportunity to express your feelings.
2. Did you express your concern after the 5<sup>th</sup> or 6<sup>th</sup> class? Ask for clarification during or after the lectures? A person must be their own advocate or nothing will change.
3. Having been a hobbyist since 1977 and having owned 4 DLSRs, you are likely familiar enough with the basics to be ready to shoot in RAW for which you do need to be familiar with post processing software. The best film photographers knew how to manipulate their negatives in the darkroom. It is not all straight out of the camera.
4. Did the professor inform the students, at the beginning, that access to CS5 would be expected? Is it available for use at the college to those students who do not own a program? Usually, there is a list of what will be needed to complete a course.
5. There are dozens of video and text tutorials on the net. It may be that they will better suit your learning style and interests. Before selling your gear, make a list of what you would like to have covered in your ideal photography course, and then start searching.
<o:p></o:p>

<img src="https://us.v-cdn.net/6029383/emoji/nod.gif" border="0" alt="" >

I have to agree wholeheartedly with this post (with the exception of whether negotiating a fee refund is possible - none of the colleges where I have taught would refund a fee at the end of the course except in the most extreme and unusual circumstances, and even then I think it would be beyond unlikely AFTER the course had been completed and a grade issued.)

I will say that many teachers of photography are advocates of full-frame not because of snobbery, but because they have come from film and continue to think "in that mode". I know where I teach (another subject) all photography majors MUST take the foundation class which requires a 35mm film SLR.

The class description you've posted does specifically call itself an intro to DIGITAL photography and clearly states that it will include post-processing manipulation. "in addition to guided practice pertaining to digital photographic theory and practice utilizing digital imaging software and digital photographic equipment."

Thus it seems reasonable that use of some kind of digital processing is expected and will be graded (what does it say in the syllabus for the class - were the requirements clearly laid out there?). While I don't agree that the only post-processing software worth using is CS5, it IS kind of "industry standard" and thus a reasonable choice to impose on students. If the software was made available to students (either university copies onsite, or heavily discounted copies which could be expected to be purchased in the same way that textbooks are purchased), it's not unreasonable to expect students to use it.

Just my 2c. Sorry you're not happy with the outcome.

Photoarts · June 9, 2011

Education is what you make of it!
Just wanted to let you know that despite the school's limited approach to photography curriculum, learning the art and science of photography is what you make of it and what you choose to take from the school as well. Focus on the areas that you are interested and reseach another course and talk to the instructor before you take the class. May be look at the text they will use prior to class.
Also as suggested by may here already, the web is now a wealth of information and more than enough sources exist for learning outside a structured classroom. For example apart from great sources here on digital grin try the web source Luminous Landscape (simply google it an it will come up). More that four thousand pages of articles on the art, science and business of photography ther have contributed to my learning and continue to do so. Other subject specific sources also come up with google, try it!

Coney_Island_Gary wrote: »

I purchased my first SLR camera in 1977. My friend helped me get started with photography. I have always been a hobbyist, no intention of doing photography for a fee. I am now on my fourth DSLR. I am also retired and decided to learn how to properly use my Nikon D7000. I enrolled in a beginning photography course at the local community college. This school offers an AAS in Photography (Not my goal) but that is the strength of their program.

Early in the semester there were two lectures, which covered BDE, Exposure, Aperture, Depth of Field, and Rule of Thirds. The rest of the semester (14 weeks) was nothing but Photoshop 5.

Here is my question:

Have I missed something? Is there no need to have instruction on how to capture an image? Is there no need to have someone with knowledge help interpret the poorly written owner’s manual? Based on this class, there does not seem to be a reason to purchase anything other than the most basic camera and CS5, as CS5 will enhance any image to perfection.

I just do not get it.

Overfocused · June 9, 2011

Photoarts wrote: »

Just wanted to let you know that despite the school's limited approach to photography curriculum, learning the art and science of photography is what you make of it and what you choose to take from the school as well. Focus on the areas that you are interested and reseach another course and talk to the instructor before you take the class. May be look at the text they will use prior to class.
Also as suggested by may here already, the web is now a wealth of information and more than enough sources exist for learning outside a structured classroom. For example apart from great sources here on digital grin try the web source Luminous Landscape (simply google it an it will come up). More that four thousand pages of articles on the art, science and business of photography ther have contributed to my learning and continue to do so. Other subject specific sources also come up with google, try it!

Then what's the point of going to college? If the structure stinks there's no point in paying for structure then having to try and make your own class structure out of it.

BayMare · June 10, 2011

Overfocused wrote: »

Then what's the point of going to college? If the structure stinks there's no point in paying for structure then having to try and make your own class structure out of it.

That's a good point. The structure of post secondary education in North America needs to make huge leaps in order to rationalize its existance in many areas. Yes, med students still need a building in which to practice, complete labs, etc etc; however, with the internet, are traditional classrooms and methods still necessary for many courses and degrees dealing with the humanities and certain fine arts? Maybe there is little point in attending college and paying the high tuition fees if a person can design their own program of learning and find their own mentors (real or online).

Overfocused · June 10, 2011

BayMare wrote: »

stuff

Luckily a photog's portfolio speaks for them and the degree almost never does :ivar

Overfocused · June 11, 2011

richy wrote: »

I am not trying to be mean, but honestly how are the other students doing?

That is a good question to ask.

For me, I graduated a year ago, and since then a new professor has taken over and I hear from friends still in the program that he is a terrible teacher and knows nothing compared to the previous professor. There are simply poor teachers out there and I agree that she should figure out if other students are having this much trouble too. If not, it's just something you'll have to put extra effort into. The structure still is a bit messy IMHO, but if other students are getting it, maybe work with them or something for help.

dante2004 · June 21, 2011

Didn't read most of this thread, just your first post, but if you goal isn't to have a degree in photography and you JUST want to learn how to "take better pictures" I would suggest online training courses, books, DVD's, etc so that you can go at your own pace and skip the subjects you don't care about.

I thought about going the same route - taking a college course. But earning a degree in photography wasn't my goal, just the education. So I went a different route.

Let's say a college course spends a week on sports photography and you are only interested in wedding photography...you have just spent a week learning something you could care less about. Personally I signed up for kelbytraining.com. It's only $25/month, I can watch the course that I want, skip the others, do it on my schedule and I don't have to worry about projects.

Just my $0.02

Photography Education and Software

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