Manual flash, method to perfection?

babowc · September 7, 2012

So I've just purchased a set of RF triggers to be use with my SB26 and the 900..

When using the flash (in manual mode), I understand the shutter speed controls the ambient and the flash will illuminate the subject.

However, my question is: "How can I determine what power setting to use the flash at?"
I was wondering if there is a mathematical method or if it's trial and error.

I was using CLS with both SB26 and SB900 as slaves and commander on the camera, but I found out that SB26 cannot sync properly with the newer flashes. That and Nikon CLS was truly disappointing outdoors.

Matthew Saville · September 7, 2012

In my experience, the only method to perfection is, well, hundreds of hours of experience / practice.

Forgive me for being un-researched on this, but the SB26, which flash is that? A newer or older one? I don't remember but if it's one of the older ones, (SB24, SB28) then there's no way it'll work properly with the new CLS system.

If you're using radio triggers, you shouldn't also be using CLS unless those triggers are Radio Poppers or PW Flex. Anyways, either way I'd set the remote flash to manual power. The exact power depends on the shooting condition. Personally I usually shoot wedding portraits and wedding receptions, which usually wind up needing about 1/4 or 1/32 power, respectively. Dial it up or down a stop depending on how large the room is, and usually ISO 1600 / 3200, f/2.8, and whatever shutter speed gets the job done.

Good luck!

=Matt=

babowc · September 7, 2012

Yeah, it's one of the older ones.
I was using the CLS prior to getting the RF triggers.. I was terribly disappointed!

Matt, so do you have a flash on camera in TTL plus remote manual flashes set up around the room/venue?

ziggy53 · September 8, 2012

babowc wrote: »

So I've just purchased a set of RF triggers to be use with my SB26 and the 900..

When using the flash (in manual mode), I understand the shutter speed controls the ambient and the flash will illuminate the subject.

However, my question is: "How can I determine what power setting to use the flash at?"
I was wondering if there is a mathematical method or if it's trial and error.

...

The very best way to use manual flash for a portrait session, for instance, is to previously test the flash and flash modifiers, keeping a log and noting the results at different distances from the subject.

If you use direct flash, which I rarely recommend, you can calculate flash power at a given distance if you know the "Guide Number" (GN) and distance to subject.

For instance, a Nikon SB-26 has a GN of 138(feet) @ ISO 100 and using the 50mm zoom head position*. Using the formula: GN/distance=f-number, if your subject is at 20 feet from the flash and if you use ISO 100 and full flash output, your f-stop setting should be f7 for a "normal" flash exposure. (138/20=7)

For other zoom head positions and other manual output settings, consult the user manual* and page 143.

For an on-line Guide Number/Distance to f-number calculator:

http://oregoncoastphotoclub.tripod.com/calcs/flash.htm

For an iPhone/iPod calculator app, you might try, PhotoCalc

You may also wish to purchase a flash meter to measure flash output at the subject. A flash meter will measure the flash output including the use of a flash modifier, making it very quick to get your exposure settings. Many flash meters are also ambient light meters, and they may include the ability to calculate the ratio of flash contribution with regard to ambient light.

A commonly mentioned, and very high quality, meter is the Sekonic L-358. It's a tremendous time saver when used properly.

I use an older (no longer available new) Gossen Luna Pro F, which is an Analog, Incident, Reflected and Flash, Null Meter.

*(The GN is given in the Specifications page of the Nikon SB-26 User Manual, which you may obtain at: http://www.nikonusa.com/pdf/manuals/Speedlights/SB-26.pdf)

angevin1 · September 8, 2012

babowc wrote: »

So I've just purchased a set of RF triggers to be use with my SB26 and the 900..

When using the flash (in manual mode), I understand the shutter speed controls the ambient and the flash will illuminate the subject.

However, my question is: "How can I determine what power setting to use the flash at?"
I was wondering if there is a mathematical method or if it's trial and error.

I was using CLS with both SB26 and SB900 as slaves and commander on the camera, but I found out that SB26 cannot sync properly with the newer flashes. That and Nikon CLS was truly disappointing outdoors.

A bunch of folks have found CLS to be hit or miss out of doors. I found it fairly reliable, but Also a pain only due to having to ensure that the little window was always in line of sight and not far from the focal plane.

Using TTL when you can greatly eases the adjustments on the fly. Manual mode is just that, manual.

Also I should mention that not only Shutter will be used to control ambient, but ISO is right there with it.

Matthew Saville · September 8, 2012

babowc wrote: »

Yeah, it's one of the older ones.
I was using the CLS prior to getting the RF triggers.. I was terribly disappointed!

Matt, so do you have a flash on camera in TTL plus remote manual flashes set up around the room/venue?

TTL on-camera will waste flash power, (because TTL actually pops twice, once for metering) ...so often I find myself shooting all-manual. If the reception / venue I'm shooting has moderate ceilings and walls, manual on-camera flash is fine becuase the distances are almost all the same, however if the distances get closer (and therefore a small change becomes an entire stop or two!) ...that is when I start using TTL.

For larger venues with high / black ceilings, I either find myself at 1/4, 1/2 or 1/1 power, ...or if it's outdoors then I have to "cap" my Lightsphere or use a very large bounce card. (Rogue Flash Bender, Lite Scoop, etc.)

However most of the time when the ceiling is moderately close, and a light color, I find my on-camera flash around 1/32, 1/16 or 1/8 power. Depending on how much ambient light I want in my shots...

=Matt=

Photogbiker · September 8, 2012

You've gotten great advice from a few of the best on Dgrin, but I'll just add a couple thoughts.

I second the light meter advice. Years ago I bought some used monolights, umbrellas, etc. and set up a makeshift studio in my living room. The only way to get it right in film days was a light meter. I bought a Polaris for about $100 and it was a miracle. They are about $170 now but you can find them on ebay too. Sure, digital allows you to use the trial and error method and see results instantly but the light meter really helps you figure out what is going on. Using guide numbers is a good way to understand the principles of light as Ziggy suggests, but gets impossible when you add modifiers. Nevertheless, start there and see what happens.

Then after using the light meter do as Matt suggests. Set up shots and get a feel for what you will need and what you like. Once you get some regular set ups down you'll be able to set up on a shoot and test fire and probably be within a stop of correct, then it is an easy adjustment for final. Also start low on power and work up. You really only need full power in full sun, especially if you are trying to overpower the sun so background on a sunny day at noon is actually underexposed.

There are a lot of variables, ISO being one, which causes many to think flash is complicated but get yourself a couple basic set ups you can repeat in your sleep as a starting point and then have fun changing it up. Many photogs who say they prefer "natural light" really just couldn't figure out flash. If you figure it out then you can choose natural light rather than being forced to rely on it.

babowc · September 12, 2012

I just got the RF triggers and played around with them in the house..
I tried using it in manual mode and it took me a good bit to get the proper exposure, but when I set the speedlights on the "Aperture" mode, I want to say that it exposed "correctly"..
As in that it was like I was using it TTL mode with exception of me manually changing the aperture, zoom and ISO values.

Any thoughts on this?

I still have a lot to learn with how to properly expose in manual mode.. only if the aperture mode showed what power it was using!

Matthew Saville · September 13, 2012

babowc wrote: »

I just got the RF triggers and played around with them in the house..
I tried using it in manual mode and it took me a good bit to get the proper exposure, but when I set the speedlights on the "Aperture" mode, I want to say that it exposed "correctly"..
As in that it was like I was using it TTL mode with exception of me manually changing the aperture, zoom and ISO values.

Any thoughts on this?

I still have a lot to learn with how to properly expose in manual mode.. only if the aperture mode showed what power it was using!

No idea what radio triggers you're using; are you using something that is supposed to work in a mode other than manual?

To be honest it does't matter, plain and simple I have never found wireless TTL / "Aperture" to be very useful. I've just always set them to manual. The only time I use something other than manual is for my on-camera flash, and even then only in extremely fast-changing situations.

What types of situations are you shooting in, mostly? My general prediction is that any sort of auto-flash may help in the short term, but in the long run you'll probably settle on an all-manual technique. Like I said in my original comment- it takes hundreds of hours of experience and practice, plain and simple...

=Matt=

lifeinfocus · September 13, 2012

Great set of posts. I have been looking for this info. too. I wonder if you know of any websites/blogs/books that can add more to this subject. Thanks much.

Phil

angevin1 · September 13, 2012

lifeinfocus wrote: »

Great set of posts. I have been looking for this info. too. I wonder if you know of any websites/blogs/books that can add more to this subject. Thanks much.

Phil

What Phil? Manual Flash? I think Matt said it best when he offered: "it takes hundreds of hours of experience and practice, plain and simple..."

Other than that the Hot Shoe Diaries is a fun and enjoyable read. Of course a Nikon CLS book can be beneficial as well.

ziggy53 · September 13, 2012

The http://strobist.blogspot.com/ is an excellent resource for manual control, flash photography.

Start here:

http://strobist.blogspot.com/2006/03/lighting-101-start-here.html

babowc · September 13, 2012

ziggy53 wrote: »

The http://strobist.blogspot.com/ is an excellent resource for manual control, flash photography.

Start here:

http://strobist.blogspot.com/2006/03/lighting-101-start-here.html

Yup!
That blog was the primary inspiration to start using my speedlights more!

I can't high speed sync with my rf triggers, so 1/200 ss is max.. When I get a break from all of my tests, I'll be playing with em some more:)

USAIR · September 13, 2012

Here's a good link too...lot of it is Canon but still useful.

Fred

lifeinfocus · September 14, 2012

USAIR wrote: »

Here's a good link too...lot of it is Canon but still useful.

Fred

Read some and skimmed others to get an idea of the overall content. Excellent source!

Thanks,
Phil

Stuart-M · September 21, 2012

Not a Nikon person, but until recently I used Canon ETTL a lot, mainly off camera. But recently I've found myself using using manual flash a lot more, and it's giving me more consistent results. It's really just a case of trying things out until you get used to what to set it to. For example, at an evening reception I might have all my cameras set to 1/200 2.8 ISO1600, and 2 or 3 flashes setup at 1/16 or 1/32.

I don't think it's really worth trying to calculate the settings, trial and error is much quicker IMHO, and once you've done it a couple of times you know what to set it to straight off.

babowc · October 1, 2012

I haven't been able to experiment with my off-camera manual flashes, just yet..
I've been tinkering with a "DIY beauty-dish" for a few days now...

Manual flash, method to perfection?

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