Interesting situation today...

ballentphoto · October 6, 2006

Today I went to an event that I wanted to photograph for a series that I am working on. While I was there I had my DSLR and snapping shots away and noticed that the parents there had their P&S and probably missing the same shots that I was able to capture. Would it be bad for me to approach the parents hand them a card and tell them that they could purchase images from me possibly even photographing their children while there... I paid to enter the event so I would not be representing the organization, just not sure that it would be "right" to do that. What are your thoughts on that. I just went about my business, but it kept nagging me that there was a business opportunity that I was possibly not taking advantage of. Thanks for any words of wisdom

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System · October 6, 2006

I don't see why it would have been out of line to ask. Only issue might be if there was a photog that the event contracted to take pics that they could then sell. Even in that case you can always go about your business until someone asks you to stop. In reality you have just as much right to be there as anyone else.

AntoineD · October 6, 2006

I'm not very informed about US laws and right, but you should tell the organization before doing any business on their "soil".

Moreover, you should get right with professionnal taxes or anything : if you make money, do it legally

But I wouldn't be surprised this is easy in America.

If I'm telling you this, it's mainly because some pro photog really do cares about amateur that make side-business : some thinks they're stolen, or sth…

Here in France, some even do denunciate you (!) if you're too much of a moonlighter

Well, this is all about being right with law

but do what you want

Anyway, you should get great fun doing this and finding your picture usefull to other

In fact, good children's pictures can make a grat deal

ballentphoto · October 6, 2006

truth wrote:

I don't see why it would have been out of line to ask. Only issue might be if there was a photog that the event contracted to take pics that they could then sell. Even in that case you can always go about your business until someone asks you to stop. In reality you have just as much right to be there as anyone else.

No other photog there, just retired folks and parents. Just do not want to step on any toes while I am there

: If there were another photog I would be just taking pictures for me and not even try to sell to others there ( I certainly would not want someone else to do that to me )

ballentphoto · October 6, 2006

AntoineD wrote:

I'm not very informed about US laws and right, but you should tell the organization before doing any business on their "soil".

Moreover, you should get right with professionnal taxes or anything : if you make money, do it legally

But I wouldn't be surprised this is easy in America.

If I'm telling you this, it's mainly because some pro photog really do cares about amateur that make side-business : some thinks they're stolen, or sth…

Here in France, some even do denunciate you (!) if you're too much of a moonlighter

Well, this is all about being right with law but do what you want

Anyway, you should get great fun doing this and finding your picture usefull to other In fact, good children's pictures can make a grat deal

Thanks Antoine, I am all legal so no worries there and I even help the government with the taxes. In the US it's very easy to start up your own business, it's just making sure that you collect the sales tax and forwarding the money to the proper government agency that is a pain.

I just wanted to get other people's opinions on whether it would be "tacky" or create a bad image for my business to take a picture of something cute that a child was doing and approaching the parents and letting them know that they could purchase the image from my Smugmug account.

sirsloop · October 6, 2006

I think without permission of the event manager, or owner of the property... it would be a very bad thing to hand out business cards. If they approached you, then thats a different story. I've been to several events where I was there having fun on the weekend as a paying spectator. The contracted photographer came up to me and asked me if I was selling photos. Tricky situation indeed. Some are nice, some can be very mean and aggressive towards you.

If you really want to shoot at an event for profit, you HAVE TO contact the event manager and get the OK. Without that, you will likely get thrown out of the joint.

JimM · October 9, 2006

What kind of event? I think I would pass out the cards. I know I do.

wmas1960 · October 9, 2006

I tape and photograph events in schools myself. I would say that, from what I understand from your writing, that you should definately contact the school or organization who sponsored the event. The fact that you paid to get in doesn't, itself, get you permission to sell photos of the event or your services on their property. Even if it is a publicly accessable event, sometimes comercial use of photos of the event may need permission. The fact that you had to pay to get in, indicate that it was somewhat controled in that respect.

I have 2 situations where I do my work for some schools. One where I am paid by the athletic department to tape games for the coaches. They use those tapes for player and team evaluations. In that situation, I don't actively hand out my card or do any salesmanship. However, I am often confronted by parents who would like copies of the tapes for one reason or another. With my professional conduct and demeanor and the level of the equipment that I use, they easilly identify me as a working professional and not just another parent. I am always prepared though with a sales pitch of sorts and some business cards should THEY inquire if I am willing to do special work for them or if I can sell them a copy. As for the tapes of the game I am taping, I tell them that I would need permission from the coach first. I usually have no objections other than stuff like, not till after the season is completed or make sure they are parents of his/her teams players.

Obviously, coaches can be very protective of their coaching materials and don't want them in just anyone's hands while a season is underway. Sometimes parents want tapes to send to colleges for recruitment reasons and thus, I carry my cards, in case I get a request to do other games that I might not already be taping or should they want copies after I secure the coaches permission.

The other situation is a preschool where I do a, year end, video yearbook. For that I also take my DSLR, in addition to my Canon XL2, and take pictures of the Kindergarteners while I am taping them. I, sometimes use the stills in the tape for transitions or title slides etc. and also use them as a way to get familiar with the identities of all the children. It really helps when editing when you can put the names with the faces. I take good shots of each child and make a proof sheet with their names underneath. Some of those photos come out quite good and I would like to offer them for sale. I know the parents would like them. I have never encountered the school about actively doing that though.

That, kind of, sounds like what you are talking about. I definately wouldn't be going around selling your services there without making sure that the school or organization doesn't object.

In my case, I have started to, casually, hand proof sheets to the Kindergarten Teacher, with the good shots so that she can post them for the kids and parents to enjoy. In my case they are a work tool and also, I think, a marketing tool for the end of year video. It gets the parents interested which hopefully results in more sales at the end of the year. As parents come by to pick up the children, I hope they will see them and some interest might evolve. If you have a connection with someone in the organization, you might do something like that and leave it to the parents to contact you. Or, send a courtesy copy of a proof sheet to the school or organization and leave it to them to decide whether they will post it or show it around. Put your business card in with it with an offer that if anyone is interested in copies of the pictures that they can contact you. You might just say in a letter that you were there taking some pictures and it occoured to you that some parents and grandparents might be interested in some of them.

ballentphoto · October 10, 2006

Those are good ideas, this was at a botanical garden where they were tagging butterflies and the kids really looked like they were having lots of fun. I was there for a series I was taking and just documenting the process of tagging butterflies. While I was there, the business side kept kicking in and I wanted to talk to some of the parents there, but I did not want to seem pushy or upset the garden. I was just there to record tagging for me and perhaps some editorial stuff down the road (if I get lucky) but I kept seeing all those parents there trying to get those shots I was able to fire off shots without even trying hard. Sometimes people get strange when it comes to photographing their kids, so I avoid it unless they happen to walk into the frame as I make my shot.

wmas1960 · October 11, 2006

Yeah, Reading more of your details, I would definately check with them before doing any sales or self promotion. Like I said, unless someone specifically asks you.

At the Chicago Botanic Garden, which is not far from me, I have noticed that they have information on their website specifically addressing commercial photography. I may be wrong but I believe that they are run by Cook County Forest Preserve District. However, even though they are run by a government entity, they are still not "Public Property" in the same sense as if you were to take pictures in your town park or on the street or something. You pay admissions fees or buy a membership... in order to use the facilities. Thus they enforce certain rights to the facilities and Commercial images of the facilities... and so on. They welcome people to come and take pictures and all and I found when I used to work in cable, love it when people come and shoot video or photos that are used for promotional or editorial use that can get them some positive exposure. I used to go there from time to time to get video of kids in the vegitable garden or building scarecrows... and so on for local programming needs. However, they, like a lot of Not For Profit organizations are sensitive to people using their facilities and programs for personal gains or profit.

That, I believe, even extends to Professional Wedding Photographers. It seams that their facility is a popular backdrop for wedding photos. They, if I remember correctly, require a permit and fee for such photo shoots and other commercial uses. You might consider buying a membership and all or making a donation to them. Check into any required fees and consider if they might be reasonable for the amount of business that you might generate.

Something that I notice that they do here, that might also be an option, contact someone there and see about exhibits of your work. Here they often have local photographers and artists display their works in the lobby and halls around the exhibits, green houses and such. They also have photo clubs that actively shoot all kinds of activities and landscapes and such and have regular meetings and exibits. Get a membership and get involved. Take part in some of the workshops or clubs. Might be possible that such exposure would yield some interest in your work. Of course, you might need to be careful about using recognizable images of other people without a model release if you show your work in a public place. I am not sure how that plays in art exhibits and all.

ballentphoto · October 11, 2006

wmas1960 wrote:

Yeah, Reading more of your details, I would definately check with them before doing any sales or self promotion. Like I said, unless someone specifically asks you.

At the Chicago Botanic Garden, which is not far from me, I have noticed that they have information on their website specifically addressing commercial photography. I may be wrong but I believe that they are run by Cook County Forest Preserve District. However, even though they are run by a government entity, they are still not "Public Property" in the same sense as if you were to take pictures in your town park or on the street or something. You pay admissions fees or buy a membership... in order to use the facilities. Thus they enforce certain rights to the facilities and Commercial images of the facilities... and so on. They welcome people to come and take pictures and all and I found when I used to work in cable, love it when people come and shoot video or photos that are used for promotional or editorial use that can get them some positive exposure. I used to go there from time to time to get video of kids in the vegitable garden or building scarecrows... and so on for local programming needs. However, they, like a lot of Not For Profit organizations are sensitive to people using their facilities and programs for personal gains or profit.

That, I believe, even extends to Professional Wedding Photographers. It seams that their facility is a popular backdrop for wedding photos. They, if I remember correctly, require a permit and fee for such photo shoots and other commercial uses. You might consider buying a membership and all or making a donation to them. Check into any required fees and consider if they might be reasonable for the amount of business that you might generate.

Something that I notice that they do here, that might also be an option, contact someone there and see about exhibits of your work. Here they often have local photographers and artists display their works in the lobby and halls around the exhibits, green houses and such. They also have photo clubs that actively shoot all kinds of activities and landscapes and such and have regular meetings and exibits. Get a membership and get involved. Take part in some of the workshops or clubs. Might be possible that such exposure would yield some interest in your work. Of course, you might need to be careful about using recognizable images of other people without a model release if you show your work in a public place. I am not sure how that plays in art exhibits and all.

I am already a member and have been taking quite a few pictures there. I have already been thinking on how to get my work shown there, but out here we do not have a lot of green houses in Phoenix

I like the idea of getting in contact with them...

Also there are a lot of people getting married there, great views and the flora is amazing (if you like desert plants hehehe) I have many more images to put up in my site... It's amazing what strange shapes cactus can take.

Here is one that is unique... It's a saguaro cactus

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Guess I should post this in Cool Shots

Interesting situation today...

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