Switch to Pentax K10D?

squeaky_clean82 · March 16, 2007

I posted something similar on FM, but I am curious if I can get more feedback here.

I've been offered a killer deal on a BNIB K10D, and I've been seriously thinking about dumping my Canon equipment and switching. It sure seems like a lot of camera for the money. I know the camera isn't everything, but Pentax makes some nice lenses, too.

I guess what I am lookng for is opinions from people who have or have used the K10D a good bit. Just general thoughts. I really need to upgrade my Canon 10D, and was thinking this might be a fun way to go. Slighty playing into my thought process is that I have a few very nice old K mount lenses that could be used very easily...

Thanks!

ziggy53 · March 16, 2007

squeaky_clean82 wrote:

I posted something similar on FM, but I am curious if I can get more feedback here.

I've been offered a killer deal on a BNIB K10D, and I've been seriously thinking about dumping my Canon equipment and switching. It sure seems like a lot of camera for the money. I know the camera isn't everything, but Pentax makes some nice lenses, too.

I guess what I am lookng for is opinions from people who have or have used the K10D a good bit. Just general thoughts. I really need to upgrade my Canon 10D, and was thinking this might be a fun way to go. Slighty playing into my thought process is that I have a few very nice old K mount lenses that could be used very easily...

Thanks!

Dumping your current system could be a big deal, or it could be not so big a deal.

Without knowing more about your current system, the Pentax "deal", your shooting style and experience, and your photography goals, no one can advise you or offer a strategy.

We need as much information about the above specifics as you are comfortable to share before you can expect quality advice.

Unless you are looking for pure opinion ...?

squeaky_clean82 · March 16, 2007

Well, I am looking for a lot of opinion....

But, to clarify, I shoot mainly portraits and weddings. I like to shoot available light as much as possible. Trying to get into pro photography slowly but surely, only time will tell if that happens!

I have a Canon 10d, and 3 or 4 lenses and flash. Trying to decide if I lock myself into the Canon system for good, or try something else.

The "deal" on the K10D is a BNIB kit (w/ kit lens) for $850. So maybe it isn't an AMAZING deal, but its pretty good, I think.

Thought about the K10D when it came out, but didn't have the $$ then. Guess I am still thinking about.

Thanks! Chris

Andy · March 16, 2007

And you get the pancake 40mm!

Manfr3d · March 16, 2007

squeaky_clean82 wrote:

I posted something similar on FM, but I am curious if I can get more feedback here.

I've been offered a killer deal on a BNIB K10D, and I've been seriously thinking about dumping my Canon equipment and switching. It sure seems like a lot of camera for the money. I know the camera isn't everything, but Pentax makes some nice lenses, too.

I guess what I am lookng for is opinions from people who have or have used the K10D a good bit. Just general thoughts. I really need to upgrade my Canon 10D, and was thinking this might be a fun way to go. Slighty playing into my thought process is that I have a few very nice old K mount lenses that could be used very easily...

Thanks!

I dont know what your camera setup exactly is, but
also take into consideration that any fast pentax
lens will probably only available on the used marked
and gerneraly be very expensive (as almost all pentax
lenses). I've seen the 85mm/1.4 SMC sell for 900€ online.
That is for a used out of production lens. Some very
high ranked Pentax lenses like the 600mm/4 are dissapearing
from the shops at this time. So, if you want the antishake
and the other features that the K10D has and if you can live
with "slow" pentax lenses or lenses from sigma, tamron etc.
its probably worth a deeper look to change brands.

I did exactly the opposite, I switched from Pentax (analog)
to Canon (digital) simply because of availability of lenses
on the used market. Its also easier to try out lenses in shops
because Canon is much more spread than Pentax is.

The only edge I think the K10D has over Canon is the build in
antishake, which is very expensive in Canon land if you buy IS
lenses.

Photography has worked decades without IS and will do so
at least for me until I have too much money to afford IS.
Until then I use a Monopod.

just my 2 cents

ziggy53 · March 16, 2007

OK, let's start with the good, $850 is a very good price for the camera and lens you describe.

Is it good enough to recommend switching systems? No, it's not that good.

Is the Pentax K10D a more refined camera than the Canon 10D? It certainly has more pixels, camera based stabilization, probably better exposure system (in very general terms), weather sealed, ... actually a pretty rich feature set.

I'm not so sure about the focus speed and focus accuracy. It seems an inordinate number of folks have problems with focus accuracy in particular, even our own kini62 had problems. (The K100D had a much better record of focus accuracy.)

If you have good Canon mount glass, there are many wedding and event and portrait shooters using the Canon 30D who seem to like it. Then again, the Canon 1D MKII/N/III is likewise a great multipurpose camera with splendid low-light focus and exposure capabilities. The Canon 5D has become a portrait/wedding shooters camera because of its wonderful smooth tonality and high-ISO performance.

The Nikon D2X/D2Xs is also well regarded for portrait work as is the Canon 1Ds MKII.

I am likewise interested in the Pentax K10D and K100D because of old glass I already own that would be image stabilized on that system.

I probably wouldn't recommend the Pentax system as a first choice for wedding or portraiture. Could you use it for wedding and portrait work? Certainly you could.

ziggy53 · March 16, 2007

Manfr3d wrote:

...

The only edge I think the K10D has over Canon is the build in
antishake, which is very expensive in Canon land if you buy IS
lenses.

Photography has worked decades without IS and will do so
at least for me until I have too much money to afford IS.
Until then I use a Monopod.

just my 2 cents

Good point! I still don't have anything dSLR IS even though I do have a Konica-Minolta A2 with built-in AS that works very nicely.

I do have tripods and fairly good shooting posture that I use constantly.

I love how the companies talk about their stabilization systems that provide 2-4 stops of stabilization, when a cheap tripod is often still the better solution and provides potentially hundreds of times more stabilization. (I know, I know, with IS you have a choice. Eventually I will break down and buy into somebody's stabilization technology. Then you probably won't get me to shut up about how good it is.

)

ziggy53 · March 16, 2007

Andy wrote:

And you get the pancake 50mm!

Andy,

You and that combination camera/lens make a cute match!

Did you get one yet?

lowbone · March 16, 2007

As one who has recently jumped off the Pentax ship I would like to give my two cents worth. Most of the reaaly good Pentax FA lenses have been discontinued. Just for the sake of conversation lets assume you are interested in nature photography. You would probably want a lens of at least 300mm. A banged up Pentax 300mm f 4.5 lens will go for upwards of $1200 on ebay and that is if you are the lucky high bidder on the one or two Pentax 300mm lenses that come up for auction every year. O.K so you say you will buy a Sigma 300mm lens. Look and you will see that none of Sigmas better lenses are available in a Pentax mount. Also by sticking with the " all of our older lenses will work" approach Pentax has backed itself into a corner with slower focusing then any SLR out there and finally the image stabilizer is not visible in the viewfinder and is less effective on lenses of long focal length the optical IS.

ziggy53 · March 16, 2007

lowbone wrote:

As one who has recently jumped off the Pentax ship I would like to give my two cents worth. Most of the reaaly good Pentax FA lenses have been discontinued. Just for the sake of conversation lets assume you are interested in nature photography. You would probably want a lens of at least 300mm. A banged up Pentax 300mm f 4.5 lens will go for upwards of $1200 on ebay and that is if you are the lucky high bidder on the one or two Pentax 300mm lenses that come up for auction every year. O.K so you say you will buy a Sigma 300mm lens. Look and you will see that none of Sigmas better lenses are available in a Pentax mount. Also by sticking with the " all of our older lenses will work" approach Pentax has backed itself into a corner with slower focusing then any SLR out there and finally the image stabilizer is not visible in the viewfinder and is less effective on lenses of long focal length the optical IS.

Thanks lowbone,

I guess I'll just keep using that sweet old glass on my Canon cameras via adapter for now.

colourbox · March 16, 2007

Is it necessary to do a complete switch? Do you have to drop the Canon to get the Pentax? If not, you could keep both.

I switched from a Nikon analog body with 2 good lenses to Canon digital. I thought about selling the Nikon gear but now I have decided that I will keep the lenses, because it's looking like Nikon will continue to pump out affordable bodies, and at some point in the future I might buy one as a second digital body. I don't feel any need to be brand-exclusive. Because all my images go through Lightroom/Photoshop, all image formats work the same to me as long as they are supported by Adobe. Heck, if SLR body prices start dropping to pre-digital entry level prices ($200-400), I might one day pick up a Pentax body and attach my old lenses I got for my K1000.

SCS_Photo · March 16, 2007

Ditto with colourbox. The 10D by itself won't fetch much. I'd keep it and maybe sell a couple of your lesser-used canon lenses. Maybe convert it to IR like andy has done with some of his canons.. While we're on the subject of Andy, its a 40mm, not 50mm pancake.

(as well as the new 21 and 70 somewhat thicker 'pancakes')

Pentax is a good choice if you want: Lighter, weather sealed body/lense system. More prime lense choices. 10 megapixels in a camera that doesn't feel like a toy *cough* XTi *cough* Exposure modes unique to digital (ISO as the only exposure variant/constant).

What you won't get is: As many brand name AF lenses, especially fast zooms and long telephotos, (usm AF)SDM/HSM lenses until the end of this year, when the 16-50 f/2.8 SDM, 50-135 f/2.8 SDM, and 60-250 f/4 SDM come out. Each should be in the $600-1200 range.

The limiteds are plentiful, as well as the 50/100 macros. The fast 50s are occasionally in stock, but the 85 f/1.4 is really quite rare. Heres to hoping the they make an SDM version of that along with the 50. Also, theres a 35mm f/2.8 macro on the way.

I'm off to the camera store...

Glenn NK · March 16, 2007

The two reasons I "bought into" the Canon system:

1. Very good high ISO,

2. The best selection of lenses available in this world.

Both reasons are still valid, and will be for the forseeable future.

Manfr3d · March 16, 2007

SCS_Photo wrote:

Pentax is a good choice if you want: Lighter, weather sealed body/lense system. More prime lense choices. 10 megapixels in a camera that doesn't feel like a toy *cough* XTi *cough* Exposure modes unique to digital (ISO as the only exposure variant/constant).

I'm not sure if thats true. I count more than 30 primes from Canon which
should be plenty enough for anybodys need. And see more and more pentax
lenses being discontinued.

On a side note, every Pentax k-Mount lens ever made (and they've been
produced since ages)w ill work on todays Pentax digital cameras. But the
good ones are too darn expensive and rare like the legendary 200mm/4.0
Macro.

Its so much fun to drool over old gems! Found this excellent Pentax
K-Mount website here: http://www.bdimitrov.de/kmp/

It has excellent information on discontinued lenses and how often ...
once a month, a year or a lifetime you'll encounter these lenses on the
used market. A great resource.

By the way, did you know that Pentax made a prototype 300mm/2.0 lens?
Check out its pic on the site above.

Glenn NK wrote:

The two reasons I "bought into" the Canon system:

1. Very good high ISO,

2. The best selection of lenses available in this world.

Both reasons are still valid, and will be for the forseeable future.

Thats probably right, Pentax' ISO is almost unusable from 1600
onward. Whenever I shoot available light concerts with a Pentax
istDs with the FA-SMC 50/1.4 @ f2, I have no shutter speed
benefit at all over my Canon 10D @ ISO3200 and f2.8. And the
Canon still shows better noise bahaviour at this setting.

georges · March 16, 2007

Either will work fine...
Given your planned use, either will work fine.

My personal opinion is the Pentax is one of the first cameras to take advantage of the digital mindset.

ISO, aperture and shutterspeed can be assigned to the two control wheels in any combination.

The comment about unusable ISO 1600 and above may have been made by someone that has not used this particular model. The k10d only goes to 1600 and if there is enough light for a good exposure 1600 is quite usable.

The built-in shake reduction is very useful. In the future it will be a must have feature in any camera that I buy.

Canon's white paper comparing and contrasting in-body vs. lens based shake reduction is entertaining. Here's the question no one asks: Why would you not have both body and lens based shake reduction? If, in any particular lens, the lens based SR would be better, simply turn it on and turn off the body based SR! Use the body based SR for every other possible lens you may want to mount.

If you're looking for a camera system with a tremendous amount of breadth, by all means, Canon is the way to go.

IF you're comfortable with the economics and features of the Pentax, there isn't any reason it wouldn't do the job.

I could use either, currently I'm using the Pentax.

SCS_Photo · March 16, 2007

Manfr3d wrote:

I'm not sure if thats true. I count more than 30 primes from Canon which
should be plenty enough for anybodys need. And see more and more pentax
lenses being discontinued.

100mm and below Pentax has:
14mm f/2.8
20mm f/2.8
21mm f/3.2 pancake
28mm f/2.8
31mm f/1.8 ltd
35mm f/2 (upgraded version coming, possibly f/1.4)
35mm f/2.8 macro ltd (new)
40mm f/2.8 pancake
43mm f/1.9 ltd
50mm f/1.4
55mm f/1.4 (to replace previous lense, has SDM)
50mm f/2.8 macro
70mm f/2.4 pancake
77mm f/1.8 ltd
85mm f/1.4 (very rarely in stock)
100mm f/2.8 macro

Considering pentax covers the fisheye lenses with their fisheye-zooms, I think thats a pretty level playing field for those not needing a brand name tele-prime.
Even so, Pentax is releasing a brand new 200mm f/2.8 sdm and a 300 f/4 sdm, both of which are weather sealed, as is the aforementioned 55mm.

I doubt that all of canon's primes are in production...

Manfr3d · March 16, 2007

SCS_Photo wrote:

I doubt that all of canon's primes are in production...

I only checked the Canon website for current lenses, not sure
if that means that they are in production or not.

Thiago Sigrist · March 16, 2007

I switched!
From Nikon to Pentax, with the K10D body.

Pentax suits me better because it has a set of primes that suit me better. It's simple as that. Lately I've decided I would base my photography around 2 focal lengths only (maybe 3, in the future). I chose a normal FOV and a short telephoto for portraits.

On Nikon, that would mean either the 35/2 Nikon or the 30/1.4 Sigma for normal and one of the 85s for portraits.

On Canon, besides the 35/2 and the Sigma 30/1.4 you have the 35/1.4L (Nikon has a great 35/1.4 but it's MF).

With either of them I would get no image stabilization of any kind.

So I decided for the Pentax with the 31/1.8 Ltd and 77/1.8 Ltd. Both very usable at f/1.8, and they sure are sharp, contrasty and display nice bokeh. The all-metal construction and finish on them is just beautiful, it reminds me of old MF lenses, and the feel of the MF rings is beautiful too, very smooth, like old lenses. Plus, I get that nice stabilization on them, about 1 stop advantage on the 31 (sometimes a little more) and 2 on the 77. And I like the fact the 77 is a bit shorter than the 85s.

So, for me, the Pentax and both lenses are making a great kit, lots of fun to shoot with, and the results are great, especially considering the price.

If I had more money (6k instead of 2.5), I would get the Canon 5D and a 50 and the 85/1.2L II. I think that's the best of Canon at the moment, at least for my shooting style.

So bottom line: Pentax K10D is a great camera, the switch will be worth it if you can find the stuff you want on their lens lineup (like I did). But, if you already have really good Canon stuff, perhaps their FF stuff is really worth taking a look at, even if more expensive.

Hope I wasn't too confusing!
Thanks for your attention!
Take care!

-- thiago

LuckyBob · March 17, 2007

Not to rain on the parade, but...

SCS_Photo wrote:

100mm and below Pentax has:
14mm f/2.8
20mm f/2.8 Discontinued '04
21mm f/3.2 pancake
28mm f/2.8 Discontinued '04
31mm f/1.8 ltd
35mm f/2 (upgraded version coming, possibly f/1.4) Discontinued '04
35mm f/2.8 macro ltd (new)
40mm f/2.8 pancake
43mm f/1.9 ltd
50mm f/1.4 Discontinued '04
55mm f/1.4 (to replace previous lense, has SDM) (unlisted on Manfr3d's posted site)
50mm f/2.8 macro
70mm f/2.4 pancake
77mm f/1.8 ltd
85mm f/1.4 (very rarely in stock) Discontinued '04
100mm f/2.8 macro

From what I see that basically leaves three or four current production wide release primes and a handfull of limited release primes. By my count, there's only 10 first-party zooms available to boot. What's Pentax doing?

ziggy53 · March 17, 2007

LuckyBob wrote:

Not to rain on the parade, but...

From what I see that basically leaves three or four current production wide release primes and a handfull of limited release primes. By my count, there's only 10 first-party zooms available to boot. What's Pentax doing?

What do you suggest they need to add?

Manfr3d · March 17, 2007

ziggy53 wrote:

What do you suggest they need to add?

A fast telezoom like the SMC-FA 80-200mm/2.8 (not 50-135,150) and
possibly a 300mm or 400mm telephoto lens .. also an Extender wouldn't
hurt. But thats probably whishfull thinking.

LuckyBob · March 18, 2007

ziggy53 wrote:

What do you suggest they need to add?

I dunno. One of my good friends just bot a K10D on a whim and I just feel like there's not much room for him to grow with it. It just feels like the majority of their current line is (a) limited release, or (b) signifigantly more expensive than the other brands. Their 50mm f/1.4 (which B&H still has) seems like a decent price, but no USM/HSM/etc.

georges · March 18, 2007

You might not be a Pentaxian
Squeak -

Pentax is clearly positioning themselves as the camera that's not for everyone.

Here's a link to materials from their new ad campaign. It might help you with your decision.

http://nedbunnell.blogspot.com/2007/03/youre-pentaxian-branding-campaign.html

As I said in an earlier post, either camera would work, but... you may not measure up to being a Pentaxian.

The Canons meet the needs of most of the common folk.

claudermilk · March 19, 2007

SCS_Photo wrote:

...10 megapixels in a camera that doesn't feel like a toy *cough* XTi *cough*...

*cough* 1D Mk III *cough*

I seriously doubt it will feel anyting like a toy...

From the little time I had playing with a K10 (or was it K100? not sure), Pentax definitely has a contender. Had a good feel to it, controls fell to hand nicely.

SuperJared · March 19, 2007

I love my K10D. I switched from a very small Nikon setup and have no regrets.

kini62 · March 19, 2007

As mentioned earlier in this post I tried a K10- actually 2 of them. Both had FF problems with the 2 lenses I had, one Sigma and one Pentax. Maybe because I bought early in the release schedule. Perhaps some of the QC problems have been fixed.

What I liked was the feel and the ergos, Very easy to change things, adjust WB, AF etc.... I feel as though it was more ergonomic than my 30D. But this is a personal thing.

I also liked the way the grip mounted and looked while mounted. I don't care for the fit and feel of the Canon grip, though I will still get one.

The built in SR was nice to have, especially with a fast prime. Allowed for some really low light shots. I felt it didn't work as well as the in lens IS on my 24-105. And it was slow to settle in. It doesn't begin to work until the shutter is half pressed and I found I had to wait for some shots and missed a few waiting for the little hand icon to show up. Whereas I find the IS on my lens to be near instant and have never had to wait for it.

Auto WB was poor as was evaluative metering. Both easily fooled. Flash exposure using the Pentax 540 (similar to the Canon 580) was not very accurate of consistant, especially when bouncing with a diffuser. The 30d/580EX is WAY more consistant and accurate with only a slight tendency to over expose up close. The 540 flash itself is a nicer flash though as far as features and build goes.

AF in low light was SLOW. No other way to put it. In single AF mode it would take 2 seconds or more to eventually decide it had locked on a target. Some said to just use continuous mode as it uses release priority. Of course the shot has a good chance of being OOF then. Plus the tracking abilities of the K10 even in good light is not too great.

The slow low light AF would've caused me to return the camera even if it had focussed properly.

I did back to back comparisons with my 30D and Oly E-300. The E-300 was faster and the Canon was MUCH faster in the same light.

Add to that the lack of fast zooms for Pentax it makes it a tough choice for anyone wanting to take pics of things that move. For me that's my kids and much of it is indoors at close range.

Heck I'd be using a MkIII if I could afford it. Nothing worse than missing a shot because the camera is too slow.

But that's just my opinion. YMMV:D

Gene

imageswest · March 19, 2007

LuckyBob wrote:

Not to rain on the parade, but...

From what I see that basically leaves three or four current production wide release primes and a handfull of limited release primes. By my count, there's only 10 first-party zooms available to boot. What's Pentax doing?

And there's currently nothing over 100mm - except the inexpensive 55-200mm zoom.

Seefutlung · March 19, 2007

I shoot with a Pentax guy ... he won't shoot his K10D above 800 ISO. The severe noise makes nearly any image unusable. I shoot a ton of low light stuff and this would kill me ... especially for sports.

Gary

SuperJared · March 19, 2007

Seefutlung wrote:

I shoot with a Pentax guy ... he won't shoot his K10D above 800 ISO. The severe noise makes nearly any image unusable. I shoot a ton of low light stuff and this would kill me ... especially for sports.

Gary

I've set mine to never go above ISO 400 because noise really is an issue, though I never need to go above it anyway.

SuperJared · March 19, 2007

imageswest wrote:

And there's currently nothing over 100mm - except the inexpensive 55-200mm zoom.

To be fair the DA * 50-135mm should be out soon... And it looks nice.

Manfr3d · March 20, 2007

SuperJared wrote:

I've set mine to never go above ISO 400 because noise really is an issue, though I never need to go above it anyway.

I personaly found the Pentax istDs noise to be roughly double of what
my Canon 10D has. When I shoot with the Pentax at ISO 1600 I get
about the same noise levels as my Canon produces at 3200. About
the same for ISO 1600 vs ISO 800 on the two cameras.

I always shoot RAW which allows better results after denoising exported
16bit TIFF files. If you shoot JPEG noise is probably even more an issue.

Switch to Pentax K10D?

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