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Sigma 50-500mm Bigma (v. 70-300)

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    TelecorderTelecorder Registered Users Posts: 73 Big grins
    edited September 4, 2007
    Not Chris, but...
    canon400d wrote:
    Hi Chris,
    I have UV filters on all my lenses and I never take them off for lens protection etc. Am I doing the right thing. One day I just couldn't get a shot right and then when I removed the lens it was much lighter.
    Thanks ever so much for the advice on the LCD screen. I will have to work on the Histogram as I don't know how it works. If you can tell me in laymans terms I would appreciate it so much.
    Thanks again.
    Bob

    you may want to read/review...
    http://www.kenrockwell.com/tech/histograms.htm

    As to the UV filter, if its a good one like a multicoated Hoya, you're only losing maybe 0.1-3% or less of light. If its a cheap, poor quality one, you may be losing a lot more. If you're noticing a difference in light with and without it, it may be, and probably is, an issue and could be a part of degraded IQ... Its, IMHO, a good preventative approach given the cost of the lens but use the best quality UV(O) filter.
    Wow you have certainly sharpened that photo up. Well done.
    I'm sure having the original, full resolution image would be even better. A bit advanced but these articles detail how to get a lot out of an image--
    http://www.luminous-landscape.com/tutorials/contrast-enhancement.shtml

    http://ronbigelow.com/articles/contrast-enhancement/contrast-enhancement.htm
    I will try the shot again at 300mm. Can you please remind me what CPL is again?

    CPL = Circular Polarizer Lens
    Read this on "the two most important filters to have..."
    http://www.2filter.com/prices/specials.html
    Must be my age, sorry. The reason I cranked up my ISO was to give the photo more light. It was a sunny day and when I took the picture on 100 it was too dark when I checked it on my computer so I thought I would crank it up to make it lighter. Did I do wrong by doing this?

    Keep in mind that the ISO governs how sensitive the chip is to light; its like changing from 80-ASA film to 400-ASA -- less light needed for exposure. Increasing ISO is usually used to minimize the shutter time needed -- high ISO for lower light. One can also get the exposure by a low ISO and longer shutter speed but you'll have a problem if subjects are moving.
    By the way Dave I have UV filters fitted to all my lenses and I never take them off for protection purposes as well as strong sunlight. Am I doing right?
    As long as you have a quality UV(O) filter that minimizes the hit on IQ/light passed through...
    http://www.2filter.com/faq/faq.html

    Keep in mind that UV IQ issues usually are only when you're above 10,000'
    Telecorder (Dave)
    Apple Valley, CA
    D50-BIGMA-70-300VRII-35f2D-18-70DX-FZ30
    My SmugMug Image Galleries
    My Nikonian Image Galleries
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    ivarivar Registered Users Posts: 8,395 Major grins
    edited September 4, 2007
    canon400d wrote:
    190746217-S.jpg

    This is Mount Skiddaw which was taken across the Solway Firth with a Sigma 70-300mm lens.

    191019559-S.jpg

    This is Mount Skiddaw taken with my Bigma. It has turned out poor. I took it on ISO 800. It was a clear day and the mountain appeared perfect for photographing. The first photo taken with the Sigma 70-300 was taken minutes before this one.
    Are you sure you are comparing the correct shots here? According to the EXIF, there is nearly 2 weeks of difference between the first and second shot headscratch.gif
  • Options
    canon400dcanon400d Banned Posts: 2,826 Major grins
    edited September 4, 2007
    Telecorder wrote:
    you may want to read/review...
    http://www.kenrockwell.com/tech/histograms.htm

    As to the UV filter, if its a good one like a multicoated Hoya, you're only losing maybe 0.1-3% or less of light. If its a cheap, poor quality one, you may be losing a lot more. If you're noticing a difference in light with and without it, it may be, and probably is, an issue and could be a part of degraded IQ... Its, IMHO, a good preventative approach given the cost of the lens but use the best quality UV(O) filter.


    I'm sure having the original, full resolution image would be even better. A bit advanced but these articles detail how to get a lot out of an image--
    http://www.luminous-landscape.com/tutorials/contrast-enhancement.shtml

    http://ronbigelow.com/articles/contrast-enhancement/contrast-enhancement.htm



    CPL = Circular Polarizer Lens
    Read this on "the two most important filters to have..."
    http://www.2filter.com/prices/specials.html



    Keep in mind that the ISO governs how sensitive the chip is to light; its like changing from 80-ASA film to 400-ASA -- less light needed for exposure. Increasing ISO is usually used to minimize the shutter time needed -- high ISO for lower light. One can also get the exposure by a low ISO and longer shutter speed but you'll have a problem if subjects are moving.


    As long as you have a quality UV(O) filter that minimizes the hit on IQ/light passed through...
    http://www.2filter.com/faq/faq.html

    Keep in mind that UV IQ issues usually are only when you're above 10,000'

    Hi Dave
    Thanks again for your sound advice. You have certainly given me some excellent reading and research to do and I am sure I will benefit after I have digested all the material points. I really do appreciate your kind and sincere help.
    Bob
  • Options
    canon400dcanon400d Banned Posts: 2,826 Major grins
    edited September 4, 2007
    ivar wrote:
    Are you sure you are comparing the correct shots here? According to the EXIF, there is nearly 2 weeks of difference between the first and second shot headscratch.gif

    Hi Ivar,
    Thanks for your reply. Yes I am sure as I took about half a dozen photos with my Sigma 70-300 and the first photo above is one of them. I then put the Bigma Sigma 50-500 on and took half a dozen or so and one of them is the second photo. I have always been in the habit of taking the photos and then immediately trying them out on my computer eagerly to see how I have done. So I can't understand. What is the EXIF? if you would be kind enough to tell me how I can check it out.
    Thanks once again.
    Bob
  • Options
    TelecorderTelecorder Registered Users Posts: 73 Big grins
    edited September 4, 2007
    EXIF=Details of Image Exposure
    canon400d wrote:
    Hi Ivar,
    Thanks for your reply. Yes I am sure as I took about half a dozen photos with my Sigma 70-300 and the first photo above is one of them. I then put the Bigma Sigma 50-500 on and took half a dozen or so and one of them is the second photo. I have always been in the habit of taking the photos and then immediately trying them out on my computer eagerly to see how I have done. So I can't understand. What is the EXIF? if you would be kind enough to tell me how I can check it out.
    Thanks once again.
    Bob
    Bob--
    In looking at your linked images on your SmugMug pages, the photo info popup details the 70-300 image was exposed on 8/22 and the Bigma on 9/3. Thus, its not unexpected that the exposures would have differences...

    Digital camera images are usually exposed with embedded information detailing the particulars of the exposure such as the EXIF in one of my Bigma Images...
    [Image]
    Make = NIKON CORPORATION
    Model = NIKON D50
    Orientation = top/left
    Software = Ver.1.00
    Date Time = 2007-01-03 14:57:10
    [Camera]
    Exposure Time = 1/500"
    F Number = F6.3
    Exposure Program = Aperture priority
    Exif Version = Version 2.21
    Date Time Original = 2007-01-03 14:57:10
    Date Time Digitized = 2007-01-03 14:57:10
    Exposure Bias Value = -2.33EV
    Max Aperture Value = F6.28
    Metering Mode = CenterWeightedAverage
    Light Source = unknown
    Flash = Flash fired, auto mode, return light detected
    Focal Length = 500mm
    Maker Note = 21538 Byte
    User Comment = (c)Telecorder@AOL.com
    Subsec Time = 0.90"
    Flashpix Version = Version 1.0
    Color Space = sRGB
    Exif Image Width = 3008
    Exif Image Height = 2000
    Sensing Method = One-chip color area sensor
    File Source = DSC
    Scene Type = A directly photographed image
    Custom Rendered = Normal process
    Exposure Mode = Auto exposure
    White Balance = Auto white balance
    Digital Zoom Ratio = 1x
    Focal Length In 35mm Film = 750mm
    Scene Capture Type = Normal
    Gain Control = None
    Contrast = Soft
    Saturation = Normal
    Sharpness = Normal
    Subject Distance Range = unknown
    [Thumbnail]
    Thumbnail = 160 x 120
    [MakerNote (Nikon)]
    Makernote Version = 0210
    ISO Speed Used = 200
    Quality = FINE
    White Balance = AUTO
    Sharpening = AUTO
    Focus Mode = MANUAL
    Flash Setting = NORMAL
    Auto Flash Mode = Built-in,TTL
    White Balance Bias Value = 0
    000D = 00, 01, 06, 00
    Exposure Diff = 29, 01, 0C, 00
    ThumbOffset = 1662
    Flash Compensation = 00, 01, 06, 00
    ISO Speed Requested = 200
    Photo corner coordinates = 0, 0, 3008, 2000
    0017 = 00, 01, 06, 00
    Flash Bracket Compensation Applied = 00, 01, 06, 00
    AE Bracket Compensation Applied = 0EV
    001D = D50
    Tone Compensation (Contrast) = AUTO
    Lens Type = 2
    Lens Min/Max Focal Length, Max Aperture = 500/10, 5000/10, 40/10, 63/10
    Flash Used = Flash Fired
    Auto Focus Area = 00, 00, 00, 00
    Bracketing & Shooting Mode = 33
    008A = 0
    008B = 3C, 01, 0C, 00
    Colour Mode = MODE3a
    Lighting Type = SPEEDLIGHT
    Hue Adjustmen = 0
    Noise Reduction = OFF
    0097 = Total Number of Shutter Releases for Camera = 6188
    00A8 = 30, 31, 30, 30, 00, 36, 00, 00, 00, 00, 00, 00, 00, 00, 00, 00, 00, 00, 00, 00
    Image optimisation = NORMAL
    Saturation = NORMAL
    Digital Vari-Program =


    A good, free software program for reading image EXIF info is at:thumb.gif
    http://www.opanda.com/en/iexif/index.html
    Telecorder (Dave)
    Apple Valley, CA
    D50-BIGMA-70-300VRII-35f2D-18-70DX-FZ30
    My SmugMug Image Galleries
    My Nikonian Image Galleries
  • Options
    ivarivar Registered Users Posts: 8,395 Major grins
    edited September 4, 2007
    canon400d wrote:
    Hi Ivar,
    Thanks for your reply. Yes I am sure as I took about half a dozen photos with my Sigma 70-300 and the first photo above is one of them. I then put the Bigma Sigma 50-500 on and took half a dozen or so and one of them is the second photo. I have always been in the habit of taking the photos and then immediately trying them out on my computer eagerly to see how I have done. So I can't understand. What is the EXIF? if you would be kind enough to tell me how I can check it out.
    Thanks once again.
    Bob
    EXIF is data that is contained in the image. It can contain Shutterspeed, Aperture, date taken and much more.

    You can view it with special EXIF software, but most image software can read it as well.

    Also SmugMug can read EXIF. Click on 'info' in your SmugMug gallery:

    picture_3.jpg-20070904-220942.jpg

    See the dates? also see the filenames? Assuming that this is the same camera, there could be about 1807 shots taken with the camera between the first and second shot.
  • Options
    claudermilkclaudermilk Registered Users Posts: 2,756 Major grins
    edited September 5, 2007
    canon400d wrote:
    Hi Chris,
    I have UV filters on all my lenses and I never take them off for lens protection etc. Am I doing the right thing. One day I just couldn't get a shot right and then when I removed the lens it was much lighter.
    Thanks ever so much for the advice on the LCD screen. I will have to work on the Histogram as I don't know how it works. If you can tell me in laymans terms I would appreciate it so much.
    Thanks again.
    Bob

    Here's another link to an in-depth histogram explanation: http://www.luminous-landscape.com/tutorials/understanding-series/understanding-histograms.shtml
    I prefer Mr. Reichmann's writings over Mr. Rockwell's (he's not highly regarded around the net).

    The very basics are it's just showing you where the luminance of the image pixels are distributed. Left is black, right is white; a higher bar means more pixels at that value. A spike at either end is bad as that indicates clipping.

    Keeping UV filters on for protection is a whole separate debate. As long as they are high quality it shouldn't make a difference. A polarizer might have helped in this case & is a good filter to have in your kit--it's one of the few left that cannot be replicated in Photoshop.
  • Options
    canon400dcanon400d Banned Posts: 2,826 Major grins
    edited September 5, 2007
    Telecorder wrote:
    Bob--
    In looking at your linked images on your SmugMug pages, the photo info popup details the 70-300 image was exposed on 8/22 and the Bigma on 9/3. Thus, its not unexpected that the exposures would have differences...

    Digital camera images are usually exposed with embedded information detailing the particulars of the exposure such as the EXIF in one of my Bigma Images...
    [Image]
    Make = NIKON CORPORATION
    Model = NIKON D50
    Orientation = top/left
    Software = Ver.1.00
    Date Time = 2007-01-03 14:57:10
    [Camera]
    Exposure Time = 1/500"
    F Number = F6.3
    Exposure Program = Aperture priority
    Exif Version = Version 2.21
    Date Time Original = 2007-01-03 14:57:10
    Date Time Digitized = 2007-01-03 14:57:10
    Exposure Bias Value = -2.33EV
    Max Aperture Value = F6.28
    Metering Mode = CenterWeightedAverage
    Light Source = unknown
    Flash = Flash fired, auto mode, return light detected
    Focal Length = 500mm
    Maker Note = 21538 Byte
    User Comment = (c)Telecorder@AOL.com
    Subsec Time = 0.90"
    Flashpix Version = Version 1.0
    Color Space = sRGB
    Exif Image Width = 3008
    Exif Image Height = 2000
    Sensing Method = One-chip color area sensor
    File Source = DSC
    Scene Type = A directly photographed image
    Custom Rendered = Normal process
    Exposure Mode = Auto exposure
    White Balance = Auto white balance
    Digital Zoom Ratio = 1x
    Focal Length In 35mm Film = 750mm
    Scene Capture Type = Normal
    Gain Control = None
    Contrast = Soft
    Saturation = Normal
    Sharpness = Normal
    Subject Distance Range = unknown
    [Thumbnail]
    Thumbnail = 160 x 120
    [MakerNote (Nikon)]
    Makernote Version = 0210
    ISO Speed Used = 200
    Quality = FINE
    White Balance = AUTO
    Sharpening = AUTO
    Focus Mode = MANUAL
    Flash Setting = NORMAL
    Auto Flash Mode = Built-in,TTL
    White Balance Bias Value = 0
    000D = 00, 01, 06, 00
    Exposure Diff = 29, 01, 0C, 00
    ThumbOffset = 1662
    Flash Compensation = 00, 01, 06, 00
    ISO Speed Requested = 200
    Photo corner coordinates = 0, 0, 3008, 2000
    0017 = 00, 01, 06, 00
    Flash Bracket Compensation Applied = 00, 01, 06, 00
    AE Bracket Compensation Applied = 0EV
    001D = D50
    Tone Compensation (Contrast) = AUTO
    Lens Type = 2
    Lens Min/Max Focal Length, Max Aperture = 500/10, 5000/10, 40/10, 63/10
    Flash Used = Flash Fired
    Auto Focus Area = 00, 00, 00, 00
    Bracketing & Shooting Mode = 33
    008A = 0
    008B = 3C, 01, 0C, 00
    Colour Mode = MODE3a
    Lighting Type = SPEEDLIGHT
    Hue Adjustmen = 0
    Noise Reduction = OFF
    0097 = Total Number of Shutter Releases for Camera = 6188
    00A8 = 30, 31, 30, 30, 00, 36, 00, 00, 00, 00, 00, 00, 00, 00, 00, 00, 00, 00, 00, 00
    Image optimisation = NORMAL
    Saturation = NORMAL
    Digital Vari-Program =


    A good, free software program for reading image EXIF info is at:thumb.gif
    http://www.opanda.com/en/iexif/index.html

    OMG Dave, I must have sent the wrong photo I took with the Bigma when I sent it from Smugmug. I do recall having one or two on Smugmug and I have now deleted them as they were all so poor and much the same as the one I have posted here. However, I really do sincerely apologise for any misleadings I have caused and I will ensure it will never happen again. I can assure you and everyone else who has been so kind in helping me this was not done deliberately. I have learned such a lot from posting these two photos and I now have the bonus of knowing what EXIF is all about. I thank you and everyone else for all your kind help.
    Bob
  • Options
    windozewindoze Registered Users Posts: 2,830 Major grins
    edited September 5, 2007
    Bob,

    A circular polarizer is important but as far as i know, its use it most effective when shooting when you are at an angle of 90% to the sun.
    so you can use it early in the morning, late in the afternoon or at midday
    ( despite the harsh sun ).

    As far as the histogram goes..... ( Im going to get slammed on this )
    Here is my take...........

    I used to worry about the histogram, making sure I was careful to get that nice curve edged up to the right, but not any more! I dont look at it any more. I try to focus more on how to use manual exposure mode to deal with difficult exposures. Ive found that relying on the histogram took a lot away from the creative aspect i want to attain in my images.
    The Histogram is nothing more then a record of the quantitative value of the exposure relative to its highlights and shadows and has nothing to do with the creative value of the exposure.
    Some of my best images, have a histogram that is very different than what I would have thought it would look like.
    This is the point where I am currently at, So i just wanted to share...



    troy
  • Options
    jonh68jonh68 Registered Users Posts: 2,711 Major grins
    edited September 6, 2007
    windoze wrote:
    Bob,

    A circular polarizer is important but as far as i know, its use it most effective when shooting when you are at an angle of 90% to the sun.
    so you can use it early in the morning, late in the afternoon or at midday
    ( despite the harsh sun ).


    troy

    Partly correct. To get the maximum blue sky, it needs to be 90 degrees. It can be used to cut down haze, glare etc anytime.
  • Options
    claudermilkclaudermilk Registered Users Posts: 2,756 Major grins
    edited September 6, 2007
    Exactly. Just because the CPL isn't at it's most effective doesn't mean it's completely ineffective either. Every little bit helps.

    Troy has a good point about the histogram. You have to be aware of the content of your image when looking at the histogram. Not all images will have a nice, even bell curve to them. For example, most of my theater shots are all bunched up to the left. Normally that would be bad, but I'm dropping most of the background--the majority of the frame--to black on purpose. So if the tonality shifts the data to one end or the other, don't let that dicate too much how you set things. The main thing I reference with it is unwanted spikes at the ends to check for excessive clipping. It's a new tool with it's own learning curve and takes a little time & practice to use to best effect.
  • Options
    canon400dcanon400d Banned Posts: 2,826 Major grins
    edited September 6, 2007
    Here's another link to an in-depth histogram explanation: http://www.luminous-landscape.com/tutorials/understanding-series/understanding-histograms.shtml
    I prefer Mr. Reichmann's writings over Mr. Rockwell's (he's not highly regarded around the net).

    The very basics are it's just showing you where the luminance of the image pixels are distributed. Left is black, right is white; a higher bar means more pixels at that value. A spike at either end is bad as that indicates clipping.

    Keeping UV filters on for protection is a whole separate debate. As long as they are high quality it shouldn't make a difference. A polarizer might have helped in this case & is a good filter to have in your kit--it's one of the few left that cannot be replicated in Photoshop.

    Thanks Chris,
    I really have found your reply so helpful.
    Cheers
    Bob
  • Options
    canon400dcanon400d Banned Posts: 2,826 Major grins
    edited September 6, 2007
    ivar wrote:
    EXIF is data that is contained in the image. It can contain Shutterspeed, Aperture, date taken and much more.

    You can view it with special EXIF software, but most image software can read it as well.

    Also SmugMug can read EXIF. Click on 'info' in your SmugMug gallery:

    picture_3.jpg-20070904-220942.jpg

    See the dates? also see the filenames? Assuming that this is the same camera, there could be about 1807 shots taken with the camera between the first and second shot.

    Hi Ivar,
    Thanks ever so much for your reply. You are right and I see what you mean. You sure have me guessing now but it is obvious I have posted a similar phot from Smugmug thinking it was the one I had taken minutes after with the Bigma. I really am sorry, Ivar. I see certain details of EXIF when I highlight a photo but how do I go about getting all the information in relation to the photo.
    Thanks
    Bob
  • Options
    LeonardoLeonardo Registered Users Posts: 83 Big grins
    edited September 17, 2007
    Hello Bob,
    Here's my postponed humble opinion about Bigma's performance. For six months of using it I'm starting to realize it's limitations and peaks. I'm using Bigma on Oly E-500 (crop factor 2X) mostly handheld, rarely on monopod and very rarely on tripod, but when it is in hand always trying to manage some support - Bigma is realy heavy!eek7.gif I don't have some other lens of similar focal lenght to compare but in general i'm satisfied with it's performance. In comparison to other lens I'm using there is significant lower number of keepers with Bigma. For examples you've posted I can notice haze over mountain in both of images but there's prety clear foreground on first pic that makes it look better then other one. I think that UV filter wouldn't make it that much better but CPL under certain circumstances would, as said in earlier posts.

    I've read somewhere that it is important to get as closer as possible to subject of shoting if you want clear picture and I agree. In this case it may be meant that you have to use plain to get closer to mountain and maintain same point of view, or to cross over water and shot from lower POV. :D For clear landscapes with telephoto in hand I'm still waiting for cold north fronts with dry wind that will reduce haze in atmosphere.

    Bigma can certainly expand your creativity.thumb.gif
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