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Proposed new shipping prices
Baldy
Registered Users, Super Moderators Posts: 2,853 moderator
Lllaaaaddieeeeees and gentlemen!
Today we use EZ Prints' shipping calculator. Ugh. :cry If their servers are slow, we're slow. And they determine what our customers will be charged.
So we created our own calculator. Before we go live we wanted to pass it by youz. The goals are:
1. Display shipping real-time in the cart as stuff is added/removed.
2. Direct more high-value orders to priority mail, which is much faster and more reliable than 1st class, which is awful.
3. Incentivize large orders.
4. Simplify the rates.
Bottom line:
Small orders will cost about a buck more, large orders will be a whole lot cheaper. The new rates will equal Printroom and Exposure Manager for very small orders, but be much cheaper for medium and large orders. We'll be higher than Shutterfly and Snapfish for small orders, nearly equivalent for medium, and lower for most large.
Proposed new rates:
1. Up to 50 prints 5x7 or below can go 1st class for $2.95
So if you are a person who frequently orders three 4x6 prints, you'll be asked to pony up $1.20 more. Some will complain.
2. More than 50 or larger than 5x7 go priority mail for $4.95 + $2 for every $20 increase in order value
Pro markups are not used in the calculation.
The worst case is the person who orders one 8x10. Now they don't get a 1st-class option like they once did. But they will get their prints quickly and reliably now. Did I mention that 1st-class is awful, especially for people who order 8x10s?
But aside from that case, it gets very sweet for people who order more than a few prints.
3. 2-day FedEX is $9.95 + $2.50 per additional $20 of merchandise.
4. 1-day FedEX is $18.95 + $3.00 per additional $20 of merchandise.
5. Mounted canvas prints add $5 per unit to the normal rates.
Int'l is just a multiple of domestic, like 1.5x for Canada and 2x for most of Western Europe, etc.
We're not trying to make money on shipping, per se, like Printroom and EM seem to do. But we don't like to lose money on small orders like we do now. Or lose large orders due to the steep rates we have to charge because we lose on small orders.
This is pretty much ready to roll unless you have objections or can think of something better.
Thanks!
Baldy
Today we use EZ Prints' shipping calculator. Ugh. :cry If their servers are slow, we're slow. And they determine what our customers will be charged.
So we created our own calculator. Before we go live we wanted to pass it by youz. The goals are:
1. Display shipping real-time in the cart as stuff is added/removed.
2. Direct more high-value orders to priority mail, which is much faster and more reliable than 1st class, which is awful.
3. Incentivize large orders.
4. Simplify the rates.
Bottom line:
Small orders will cost about a buck more, large orders will be a whole lot cheaper. The new rates will equal Printroom and Exposure Manager for very small orders, but be much cheaper for medium and large orders. We'll be higher than Shutterfly and Snapfish for small orders, nearly equivalent for medium, and lower for most large.
Proposed new rates:
1. Up to 50 prints 5x7 or below can go 1st class for $2.95
So if you are a person who frequently orders three 4x6 prints, you'll be asked to pony up $1.20 more. Some will complain.
2. More than 50 or larger than 5x7 go priority mail for $4.95 + $2 for every $20 increase in order value
Pro markups are not used in the calculation.
The worst case is the person who orders one 8x10. Now they don't get a 1st-class option like they once did. But they will get their prints quickly and reliably now. Did I mention that 1st-class is awful, especially for people who order 8x10s?
But aside from that case, it gets very sweet for people who order more than a few prints.
3. 2-day FedEX is $9.95 + $2.50 per additional $20 of merchandise.
4. 1-day FedEX is $18.95 + $3.00 per additional $20 of merchandise.
5. Mounted canvas prints add $5 per unit to the normal rates.
Int'l is just a multiple of domestic, like 1.5x for Canada and 2x for most of Western Europe, etc.
We're not trying to make money on shipping, per se, like Printroom and EM seem to do. But we don't like to lose money on small orders like we do now. Or lose large orders due to the steep rates we have to charge because we lose on small orders.
This is pretty much ready to roll unless you have objections or can think of something better.
Thanks!
Baldy
0
Comments
EXAMPLE 1
Order 520 4x6 prints and you'll have three options:
Priority mail ($12.95)
Second Businessday ($19.95)
Next Businessday ($30.95)
Explanation: No first class option because you've got more than 50 prints. 520 4x6 prints at SmugMug's catalog price is $98.80, so base shipping price + 4x the increment price.
EZ Prints comparison: Same order shipped today would be $30.45 PM, $35.45 SBD, and $42.45 NBD.
EXAMPLE 2
Order 30 4x6 prints, 4 5x7s, an 8x10, and a 16x20.
You'll have three options:
Priority mail ($6.95)
Second Businessday ($12.45)
Next Businessday ($21.95)
Explanation: No first class option because you've got larger format prints.
Order total is $33.63 based on SmugMug's catalog prices. So, base shipping + 1 increment .
EZ Prints comparison: Same order shipped today would be PM ($8.45), SBD ($14.45), NBD ($22.45)
EXAMPLE 3
Order a mug, a 20x30 mounted canvas, and a mousepad.
You'll have three options:
Priority mail ($23.95)
Second Businessday ($32.45)
Next Businessday ($44.95)
Explanation:
$147.85 is your SmugMug catalog total. So, base price plus 7x the increment plus $5 extra for the wrapped canvas.
EZ Prints comparison: Same order shipped today would be PM ($20.95), SBD ($33.95 USD), NBD ($43.95 USD)
EXAMPLE 4
Order 35 4x6s and 6 5x7s
You'll have four options:
First Class ($2.95)
Priority mail ($4.95)
Second Businessday ($9.95)
Next Businessday ($16.95)
Explanation: Less than 50 prints 5x7 or smaller, so First Class is an option. SmugMug catalog total is $12.59 .
EZ Prints comparison: FC ($3.75), PM ($6.95), SBD ($11.95), NBD ($18.95)
-Anne
my only peeve is that I don't like "Shipping and Handling" charges based on "value" of the purchase... I agree that small orders (3-4x6's, 2-5x7's and one 8x10) involves alot of handling, packaging (envelopes) etc and should be priced accordingly to not loose money.
On the other hand, simply adding additional shipping and handling charges based on multiples of $20 merchandise value (that's a 10% surcharge) may not always be fair... I can think of examples where you are buying something pricey, but it doesn't weigh much, or involve much handling.... I don't like this part.
Thanks for the feedback! Can you give me a "for instance" of an order you're worried about fairness for? I'd be glad to give you a $ amount for what you'd pay for that order currently, as well as a $ amount of what you'll pay with the new shipping calculator.
Just to be clear, EZ Prints charges us S&H based on # of prints, with larger formats, gifts, canvas, etc. being extra. Or in other words, they already charge more for the "pricey" stuff.
-Anne
On occasion I order a large print if I really like one of my shots. I recently ordered 2 20x30 lustre prints - will the shipping jump considerably on an order like this?
Since you are generating the shipping options, can I disable the first class shipping option altogether for my photos?
Does this change mean that Smugmug will be staying with the awful USPS as the exclusive carrier for the foreseeable future or are you still considering alternative shipping?
Just curious, have you had problems with priority mail, or is it first class that is the problem?
--- Denise
Musings & ramblings at https://denisegoldberg.blogspot.com
Perhaps "awful" was a bit strong... but there have been other threads asking why they use USPS and they said they may be considering alternatives. Just wondering if this is a step towards that or not.
-Scott
scwalter.smugmug.com
Canon Gear
Thanks for weighing in. Yes, the little League parents will no longer have any shipping option cheaper than $2.95 . But, they can order up to 50 prints for that price without getting dinged. (Currently, every 10 prints hikes the rate up $.50)
We don't have any immediate plans to allow pros to disable first class shipping, sorry. But again, only 50 prints or less, 5x7 or smaller will have a First Class option.
These changes are NOT on EZ Prints end. So no, the carrier is not going to change. We hate dealing with USPS Economy "lost in the mail issues" and that was a motivating factor in encouraging the larger orders, and larger prints, to go Priority.
-Anne
Hi Scott,
Sorry we weren't more clear on this point. Pro pricing does NOT impact shipping rates. We calculate shipping based on SmugMug's catalog pricee for the products being orders. So 75 4x6s at $5 a pop will ship for the same price as the ones you order yourself at $.19 a pop.
I think if you'll read some of the examples, you'll see we'll often come out cheaper than EZ Prints with these new shipping prices. They haven't changed their rates they charge us, so we're eating the difference.
Also, basing solely on "size and quantity" correlates very well with price. If you look at our catalog, almost without exception the bigger the print, the more $$ it costs. The more prints you order, the more $$ your total order will cost...
-Anne
Portfolio • Workshops • Facebook • Twitter
Thanks for letting us know how you feel.
Just to clarify, Priority mail and SBD will stay the same price for your customers. In fact, they'll likely be cheaper now if they order even a single print above 5x7 in size.
The new shipping is meant to encourage customers to put that 11th print in the cart, because EZ Prints charges $0.50 extra to ship 11 small format prints, rather than 10. We won't. EZ Prints dings you $0.25 for each 8x10 you order. We won't.
However, less than 10 prints, less than 5x7 in size, means your customers will pay an extra $1.20 in shipping. Hopefully that's not a deal-breaker for them.
-Anne
This is an interesting idea and we've toyed with models to make this possible. Whcc's model is to have a minimum order size of $12 and 4x6 print prices of 70 cents unless you order more than 5 of a given print, and then the price goes to 26 cents (but still a $12 minumum order).
We're trying to strike a balance between offering reasonable shipping for both small and large orders, but we're open to balancing it differently. It just seemed to me that this way no one gets dinged a lot for small orders, but they get a big break on larger ones.
Its tough, I know you are in a bit of a dilemma on what will work here, you do have to weigh what is for the best in the majority of your customers, I am just letting you know some of us MAY feel some of those effects. Fortunately most of my profits come on the larger print sales which are done through other vender's so its not make or break for me. My SM sales are almost all 4x6 and 5x7 so I am guessing they will be paying more.
I guess anything you can do to help speed up the shipping by offering better options is a plus. I have not been a fan of the USPS economy shipping at all. Thanks for taking a look at this issue, I know I am probably not fitting your average customer but I thought you should hear some feedback from someone who generally has smaller orders. As Andy said maybe it will encourage more orders up to 50 prints.
Canon Gear
Mpix makes shipping rates SO SIMPLE. I love it. Easy for me, super easy for customers.
Note: Their not loosing money on shipping (the increase sales & profit more than pay for the simple rates - and many of their print rates are less allready). I order more simply because it's based on a flat fee.
See MPIX Shipping rates at: http://www.mpix.com/help.aspx or read as copied below...
Mpix sets the standard for quick delivery. Most of our orders ship within 24 hours! For your convenience there is a flat shipping charge regardless of the number of prints ordered.
When ordering choose between our
FedEx - Next Business Day Service: $9.75
USPS-Priority: $4.95
or regular USPS shipping: $2.50
(note: their USPS first class shipping at $2.50
is limited to 50 prints or less sized 4x6 or smaller.)
USPS-Priority: Smugmug: $4.95 plus verses MPIX: $4.95 flat fee
USPS shipping: Smugmug: $2.95 (up to 50 5x7) verses MPIX: $2.50 (up to 50 4x6)
We wish we could do the same but we can't at the present time
Portfolio • Workshops • Facebook • Twitter
We do love Mpix's model. Our proposed rate change would shift us in their direction, meaning somewhat higher shipping for small orders and lower for medium and large. We'd love to offer the flat rates they do.
I toured their lab and some of the ways they achieve this would require some sacrifice for our customers. They only offer 1 print finish (matte, which looks like lustre to me -- I like it) at consumerish rates. You can get metallic (super high gloss) and true black and white, but at higher rates & it has to be a separate order. You can't mix finishes in one order. And their returnable 4x6s with color correction are 29 cents.
I'd have to do the math, but if we can do 29-cent prints, my guess is we can offer the flat shipping rates they do.
It would be lovely to snap our fingers and offer Mpix as an alternative without creating confusion but thinking that through has turned into quite a puzzle.
I understand how adding Mpix &/or just setting up similar S/H costs would be very confusing... but one can dream & hope
True color is what I use and prefer. MPIX offers .19 cent prints for 4x6, 4x5 & 3.5x5 on all non-color corrected prints (true). Other pricing is the same for true color and/or color corrected.
Print price comparison:
SIZE
MPIX
SMUGMUG
Wallets (4)
.70 sheet or die cut
1.25 sheet only
3.5X5, 4X5, 4X6
.19 true color/.29 corrected
.21
5x7
.99
1.25
8x10
1.99
3.49
10x10
3.99
4.75 (EDIT had price backwards & fixed)
10x20
8.99
12.95 (EDIT had price backwards & fixed)
11x14
6.99
6.25
16x20
15.99
21.49 (EDIT had price backwards & fixed)
20x30
24.99
26.49
Buttons 3"
1.56
4.95
Buttons 4"
5.95
Yes, their E-surface (matte finish) prints are extremly similar to Smugmugs Luster. I love either and consider both the best imho.
Their Metalic is super sweet for the right print. I can't commit on the true black and white as I print my conversions on the E-surface and love it.
I don't mix finishes in orders very often however I have found it a major pain on the rare occasions I've needed to. At those times I have to place 2 orders (double the s/h).
I shoot school events, and if you look at my order history, you'll see that a lot of my purchases are less that 10 4x6 prints. My customers are parents ordering prints of their kids.
Now it was mentioned that hopefully a buck or so increase won't be a deal breaker, and that's probably true. But when I meet the parents at these events, I'll just have to be more appologetic than I already am about shipping costs for a 4x6 print... :twitch
I'm sure y'all are running lots of statistical experiments on the sales data you've got, so I know you'll make a choice that's an overall improvement.
Thanks.
Yes, we're definitely all ears. I went through your order history (nice work, btw) and it looks like your average is somewhere in the neighborhood of 4 prints at $5/each, although some orders were bigger.
I agree that the extra $1.20 for those orders is unlikey to be a deal killer, but I'm also sympathetic to the fact that some will notice it and not be to happy... We're talking about it.
Thanks,
Chris
Small order shipping costs were one of the reasons I originally partnered with SmugMug. If SmugMug is changing shipping prices as a matter of good business, that's fine. However, it will result in SmugMug being less competitive at account renewal time.
So put me in the "Some will complain" category. Subsequently, I may have to move SmugMug to my "Too good to be true" category. :pissed
** Feel free to edit my photos if you see room for improvement.**
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~Henry Van Dyke
Dave
Anne, I'll have to agree with dmc 100% on that. A good example I think is an order I did not too long ago, it was 2x 20x30 lustre prints, for a total of about $52. I don't recall the exact S/H on that under the old system, but I do recall that it was about $2 more than the pure shipping when I used the same tube to send some posters along to my parents. Now say I ordered 4 of those prints instead of 2. I very highly doubt it would have increased the postage much at all, but if I'm reading the new rates correctly, it would now increase the cost of that order from $2.95 + 3 x $2.00 = $8.95 to $2.95 + 6 x $2.00 = $14.95. An extra $6 for two additional prints making a total of 4? What would the old shipping have been for those two examples? (since the new shipping costs are already live I can't go generate them.)
http://wall-art.smugmug.com/
Did you see this? http://www.smugmug.com/prints/shipping.mg
"Shipping prices are calculated based on the wholesale cost of prints. Many pro photographers set higher, custom print prices. These will not increase your shipping costs."
www.ivarborst.nl & smugmug
Yes, I saw that. I'm talking about the un-marked up base cost of the prints. $26 for a 20x30 lustre. Which makes just a single print $2.95 + 2x $2.00 = 6.95, minimum.
http://wall-art.smugmug.com/
Actually it would be $4.95 + $2.00 for the second tier of shipping (Express, since Economy is not available for that print size). The first $20 of product is essentially included in the base cost of $4.95. Under the old shipping costs, that same print would have $5.95 for Express. So yes, that is an example where our new price is a bit higher.
One of the things we wanted to emphasize with the new system was a reduction in the shipping price for large orders and orders with large prints. Obviously, we failed a bit in this case, mostly because that particular print has a base cost over $20.00.
We are watching the system closely and hope to change it some more to fix things like that. Stay tuned!
Hmm... not sure what your numbers are for... my numbers were quoted directly from the current cart implementation.
As you can see, those are un-marked up prices. (I don't have a pro account, not even power. So can't change them if I wanted to.)
It just seems to me like folks that order expensive options (lustre finish or large sizes) are going to get a bit of an unfair increase in shipping costs this way.
I looked up my old receipt, it came to 59.93 for those two prints previously. $6.95 of that was shipping. (Turns out this was farther back then I thought, 12/28/06 according to the invoice.)
Or as the help pages words it (I think clearer) the base cost is $2.95, and each $20 (or part thereof) is $2.00.
http://wall-art.smugmug.com/
Perhaps a better solution is to assign each product a "print unit" (or percentage thereof). Then have a base print cost and 2 dollars per X (say, 10) print units. For example, 4x6 is 0.02ish units, really large format prints are 1 or 2 or 4 units, mounted canvas are 5, 10, or 20 or something like that. Then, you can even charge a percentage of that $2 (or round up if needed, or round down if you are slightly over the threshold and up otherwise, etc etc etc)
My 2 cents canadian (2 dollars american)
-Russ