Aerial Photographer needed...

navigator72 · November 7, 2007

Hi All,

Here's the deal. I live in Maine and own a small aerial photography business. I have a photo shoot of a construction site in New York (Plattekill, near Poughkeepsie). I need somebody willing to hire a plane and pilot and take 15-20 digital shots in the RAW format and put them on a CD and send them to me. I would do this myself but between the weather and finding the time. I am struggling to get to NY for this shoot. I am willing to pay $350.00 plus overnight shipping via PayPal or certified bank funds. I would prefer to find someone who has shot aerials before due to the specialized nature of this biz.

Here's the small print:
The RAW images will become the sole property of me.
The money will be paid upon completion of shoot.
There may be future photo flights (although, not guaranteed) of the same site or future sites.
If you can help me or know someone who can, please contact me at;
Navigator72@hotmail.com and i will send you the info and my tel #

I need these aerials ASAP.

Thanks.......:ivar

navigator72 · November 7, 2007

I forgot to add.....
I forgot to add:

The cost of the aircraft and pilot is the responsibilty of you. This typically runs about $100/ hr for the plane and $30-40/hr for the pilot. Depending on where you fly out of this could be a real quick flight or a longer flight.

If you fly locally, this would be a great opportunity to shoot your own aerials and not pay a dime.

if you have any questions or can help me out please send an email to:
navigator72@hotmail.com

Andy · November 7, 2007

So let me get this straight, you're paying $350 but the cost of the plane is $140. So this gig is $210 and you haven't touched on travel expenses, insurance expenses, etc. And what if it goes 2 hours? Then the plane is $280, and the photographer nets $70.

Sounds like a very tough gig to make any decent money with. Am I missing something?

navigator72 · November 7, 2007

It's easier than that
Hi,

I need to find a pilot in the vicinity of Plattekill. If you fly out of Poughkeepsie (The only airport, i'm familiar with in the area.) You would visit the local flight school and ask to hire a plane and pilot.
The rate is typically $130-140/ hr but you only pay for the flight time flown. It's called Hobbs time, a small meter in the plane that measures time in tenths of hours. Most schools charge using this method. If you fly for an hour you would pay for an hour of flight time. If you fly for .3 of an hour you would only pay for 3 tenths of an hour.
As far as insurance goes, flight schools carry their own insurance which would cover you in the event of an accident. Since you are hiring a plane and pilot and you aren't flying the plane you wouldn't be held liable.

I hope this clears up any questions.

navigator72 · November 7, 2007

nearby airports
Here are some other nearby airports that one could fly out of and still make some $$$

N69 - Stormville Airport (7 nm SE)
44N - Sky Acres Airport (8 nm NE)
KSWF - Stewart International Airport (12 nm SW)
KMGJ - Orange County Airport (18 nm W)
46N - Sky Park Airport (22 nm N)

The construction site is actually in Modena

photobug · November 8, 2007

A few aerial photography hints

navigator72 wrote:

I need to find a pilot in the vicinity of Plattekill. ...You would visit the local flight school and ask to hire a plane and pilot.

It takes not just a Private Pilot license, but at a minimum a Commercial license for a pilot to legally be able to perform this flight (for compensation). So you can't just hire a random private pilot for this (unless, per FAA regulations, they're willing to do it for free and they're even willing to pay for half of the aircraft rental). If you go to the flight school (which is a good idea), you'll end up hiring a CFI (Certified Flight Instructor) for this flight -- almost all pilots with Commercial flight licenses there will be CFIs.

You'll want to use a "high-wing" plane (typically a Cessna model, probably a C-172) for shooting downward-looking aerial photos. The wing in a "low-wing" aircraft (most Pipers, Diamonds, Mooneys, Beechcraft, etc) will tend to block your shots more Although a good pilot can "slip" [tilt] the plane to help mitigate that, it's easier to simply have the wing above you in the first place. Furthermore, Cessnas tend to have windows that you can open in flight at lower speeds, enabling you to get a much clearer shot by having nothing but air between your lens and the ground. The acrylic material (essentially plexiglas) used in airplane windows does not have good optical properties -- you do not want to shoot through it.

An airplane is not a rock-solid shooting platform. There is a lot of vibration from the engine. Although the pilot can throttle down the engine and glide for 15-30 seconds at a time, s/he will not turn the engine off to really reduce vibration. So this argues strongly for good image stabilization and as high shutter speeds as possible -- which in turn encourages the use of fast glass. Whatever you do, do not rest the camera on any part of the airplane (e.g. window ledge) when you shoot, as that would transmit vibration directly to the lens and camera. Hand-hold the camera, letting your body absorb a fair amount of the vibration.

Also, if you want to both converse with the pilot and retain your hearing, expect the pilot to provide an aviation headset for you to wear while you're in the plane.

The rate is typically $130-140/ hr but you only pay for the flight time flown. It's called Hobbs time, a small meter in the plane that measures time in tenths of hours. Most schools charge using this method. If you fly for an hour you would pay for an hour of flight time. If you fly for .3 of an hour you would only pay for 3 tenths of an hour.

And you want to pay for "wet Hobbs" time, which means that fuel is included in the rate. Some places charge "dry Hobbs", so you pay extra for fuel (probably 10 gallons/Hobbs hr at $4-$5 per gallon -- you do the math). I'd be surprised if you can get a plane for less than $100-110/hr, and probably it will be higher now due to high fuel prices.

Flight instructors out here in CA mostly run $40/hr and up. Dunno about NY.

navigator72 · November 8, 2007

Photo flight cancelled
Thanks for your valuable input.
I agree that you have to have a minimum of a commercial license to be paid for the flight which is why I always use CFI's (certified flight instructors).
As far as pricing goes, I can get a 1970's C172 for $89.00 an hour and $39.00 for the instructor (wet). I can get a new C172 w/ a Garmin 1000 for $115.00 an hour (wet).

As it turns out, I managed to free up my Sunday and the weather looks good. I will be making the flight myself. Which is good because I need to photograph some sites in Massachusetts.

photobug · November 8, 2007

navigator72 wrote:

Thanks for your valuable input.

I meant it more for other photographers who might be making their first aerial photo mission -- not so much for you, who probably already knew all that ;-).

I agree that you have to have a minimum of a commercial license to be paid for the flight which is why I always use CFI's (certified flight instructors). As far as pricing goes, I can get a 1970's C172 for $89.00 an hour and $39.00 for the instructor (wet). I can get a new C172 w/ a Garmin 1000 for $115.00 an hour (wet).

Not bad rates. Not bad at all.

I didn't realize that you were a pilot yourself. If so, then you'll understand my answers in the context that I'm a PP-SEL IA myself (although inactive the last few years due to young family soaking up all available time & $$ ... but at least photography is a family-friendly hobby ;-)).

z_28 · November 8, 2007

Maybe I'm a moron, but are you really offering $350 total payment for hiring
professional photographer with professional equipment and aerial experience including plane and pilot and gas and taxes charges ?

OK - I'm BIG moron.
Anyway good luck with your quest

navigator72 · November 8, 2007

$350
I don't think $350 is a bad days work even of you end up with $200 profit for an hours worth of work. The last time I checked I don't make $200/hr in my fulltime job.
but hey that's just me.....
I'll be flying around new England this weekend happier than a pig in.... (you know what)

Pupator · November 9, 2007

navigator72 wrote:

I don't think $350 is a bad days work even of you end up with $200 profit for an hours worth of work. The last time I checked I don't make $200/hr in my fulltime job.
but hey that's just me.....
I'll be flying around new England this weekend happier than a pig in.... (you know what)

If it were $200/hr I think everyone would agree. You're forgetting:

1) Preparation - gathering of materials, calling to book the plane, etc.
2) Transportation time to/from the airport
3) Downloading, preparation, delivery of images

I'd be shocked if someone could do all that in an hour.

Rhuarc · November 9, 2007

The other thing you have to remember is that just because you have a commercial license doesn't mean you can fly people around for money. As soon as you start doing that then you are considered an air carrier by the FAA and are subject to all sorts of regulations. I don't remember all the specifics, but just keep in mind that you couldn't just go grab any commercial rated pilot and pay him to fly you around.

I wonder how many pilots we have at DGrin?

navigator72 · November 9, 2007

Pilot
I am a commercial pilot with 2000+ hours.

It is totally possible to make $200 /hr with aerial photography. Last week I made roughly $2100 in a 1.3 hour flight that cost me $167 plus a tip for the pilot. It did take a few hours to process the photos and upload them to my clients website but when I can sit at home, have a drink and chill out with that kind of money coming in, it's all good.

Pupator · November 9, 2007

Again you miss the point.

No one is suggesting that it's not possible. What we're saying is that $200/hr is not possible on the terms you offered.

It doesn't matter. We're glad you got it taken care of and glad you're getting the chance to fly this weekend.

navigator72 · November 10, 2007

I disagree
While i still disagree that you can't make a $200/hr profit from what I was offering. It doesn't matter now because I am shooting the sites myself.

Aerials have been an amazing source of extra income for me.
Thanks to all who have responded with their input.

Now all I have to do is figue out which way NY is and I'll be all set.

the godfather · November 10, 2007

This reminds me of people who ask professional photographers to shoot their wedding for $200. Why not the wedding only takes an hour or so and $200/hr is more than some lawyers make...

Now if you want to pay me the $2k you make per hour I'll fly all the way from michigan.

ivar · November 10, 2007

Rhuarc wrote:

The other thing you have to remember is that just because you have a commercial license doesn't mean you can fly people around for money. As soon as you start doing that then you are considered an air carrier by the FAA and are subject to all sorts of regulations. I don't remember all the specifics, but just keep in mind that you couldn't just go grab any commercial rated pilot and pay him to fly you around.

I've done quite a few photo flights... one options is: "Hey, i need to get a chart out of my bag, can you hold the yoke? you don't need to move it as long as we are going the right way" ---> Instruction given

Rhuarc wrote:

I wonder how many pilots we have at DGrin?

Count me in

gus · November 10, 2007

ivar wrote:

I've done quite a few photo flights... one options is: "Hey, i need to get a chart out of my bag, can you hold the yoke? you don't need to move it as long as we are going the right way" ---> Instruction given

Count me in

Company i used to work for had a 210 & a full time pilot. I was always flying it once we got up which was more for the pilots amusement at the expressions on my face i think. I did take a few paid lessons also. Taking off was, as you know sitting beside an instructor in perfect conditions, relatively straight forward but man you can keep those crosswind landings to yourself ! Like running with a bucket of water balanced on your head.

navigator72 · November 11, 2007

Mission Accomplished
Good flying, good visibility, strong winds, moderate turbulence, wind shear and crosswinds on landing. It's just another fun filled day at work.

Icebear · November 14, 2007

navigator72 wrote:

I am a commercial pilot with 2000+ hours.

Last week I made roughly $2100 in a 1.3 hour flight that cost me $167 plus a tip for the pilot.

I think I have this straight . . . you want to pay someone else $350 to do what you charged $2100 for?? Damn, you're good.

z_28 · November 14, 2007

Can I ask why this thread wasn't terminated ?

gus · November 14, 2007

z_28 wrote:

Can I ask why this thread wasn't terminated ?

Mate just chill out a little more please.

ob_3 · November 15, 2007

navigator72 wrote:

Good flying, good visibility, strong winds, moderate turbulence, wind shear and crosswinds on landing. It's just another fun filled day at work.

Glad it worked out in the end for you... Sounds fun !

Icebear · November 15, 2007

Lighten up everybody!!
If it ever comes to be that I can't "tweak" somebody on this forum, I'm outa here. Life's too serious. I'm usually happy as can be when somebody can get a chuckle out of me, and maybe it's a bad assumption, but I like to think most people can take a joke at their expense.

Remember - I said "Damn you're good."
I didn't say "Damn, you're an extortionist" Oh, crap, did I just say that?

Snarcher · November 15, 2007

just use google earth

navigator72 · November 15, 2007

Close this thread
I didn't quite charge $2100 for this job although I still turned a nice profit.
As far as the $350 goes.... There was an airport approx 5 miles from the site. You could have flown, shot my photos, enjoyed the scenery, shot your own photos, flown a plane and still walk away with a couple of hundred bucks profit.
Now, stop the madness and close this thread!

DoctorIt · November 15, 2007

navigator72 wrote:

I didn't quite charge $2100 for this job although I still turned a nice profit.
As far as the $350 goes.... There was an airport approx 5 miles from the site. You could have flown, shot my photos, enjoyed the scenery, shot your own photos, flown a plane and still walk away with a couple of hundred bucks profit.
Now, stop the madness and close this thread!

I don't close threads, why?

if you don't feed into the obvious jokes, there's interesting info in this thread

navigator72 · November 15, 2007

...........
Ok then, lets keep it open. I just assumed that since the aerial photo offer has ended that you might close it to get it out of the way.

as far as Google Earth goes, that won't work. I need to take oblique photos from roughly a thousand feet.

Icebear · November 15, 2007

Profit good . .
Must . . buy . . . more . . . glass . . .

JimM · November 19, 2007

I stumbled on the thread and found it very useful. Lots of good tips on doing aerals and I didn't realize I could rent a plane for something in that range. Might have to do a flyover my house just for the experience of it.

Keep the thread open, the jokes were funny too!

davidweaver · November 27, 2007

The thread is interested from a perspective of what people think it costs to do photography. I'm probably beating a dead horse upstream without a paddle here.

So here is an (made up...errr...right) example of pro work verses RTF student work.

Pro:
Owns: high quality glass, multiple bodies.
Experience: Seasoned in many settings. Expert in many.
Shoots: 1:4 more or less depending upon event, sometimes 1:40
For this assignment (nightclub) shoots 200 images. This is 400 files RAW+JPEG. taken over 2.5 hours.
Digital Darkroom:
Paid for Photoshop
Owns high end computers and extra storage that costs thousands.
Uses plugins $$$ in workflow.
Spend about 3 hours editting,cropping, correcting and uploading (on a paid Internet connection) final images to editor. Produces exceptional images and a lot of them too...say 50.

RTF (Ratio, TV, Film) Student
Shoots Canon SureShot (provided by editor)
Shoots near 1:1.
Time at event is about 2 hours.
Uploads everything from a provided Internet connection
Editor culls out a couple but goes with 25 poor to fair images.

Pro spends 6 hours and delivers 50 images.
Student spends 3 hour and delivers 25 images. Prolly uploaded directly from the CF card.

Pro output is much greater than 4x the student as the image quality is far better (in this case).

The student get $60 bucks. Should the pro be getting more than $240 bucks? Ask the editor!!!!

I don't want to fault the original poster here or flame anyone. As with any job the more you know about what you're doing the better off you are. Setting as complete a list of job expectations up front will benefit everyone, including those that won't take the job for a variety of reasons.

Aerial Photographer needed...

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