paypal issues (rant warning)

gus · April 21, 2005

:soapbox

I sent andy some dosh for my lenses & paypal have taken 8%. Can anyone enlighten me as to how they can get away with this type of crap & still remain popular ?

Me...im shutting my account down today. I have sent & rec 7-8 emails with their disputes dept & they keep replying with the old "you agreed to our terms" crap.

Im cool with 3% as they mention & maybe a 'not so hot' exchange rate but 8% ..you have to be joking paypal.

Never again...:boid

Andy · April 21, 2005

Humungus wrote:

:soapbox

I sent andy some dosh for my lenses & paypal have taken 8%. Can anyone enlighten me as to how they can get away with this type of crap & still remain popular ?

Me...im shutting my account down today. I have sent & rec 7-8 emails with their disputes dept & they keep replying with the old "you agreed to our terms" crap.

Im cool with 3% as they mention & maybe a 'not so hot' exchange rate but 8% ..you have to be joking paypal.

Never again...:boid

tell us how you really feel

yeah, they are something, eh? i call them, a necessary evil - and have used them quite successfully for nearly four years now, no trouble. granted, most everything's been u.s. payments.

yeah, i've heard plenty of other horror stories, too.

for many things i sell, i'd rather send or receive a personal check... but many sellers, want the money straight away.. so for buying, here in the u.s., paying by paypal is great. for selling, the 3% sucks.

Nikolai · April 21, 2005

8% suck
My sincere condolences..

Otherwise, just as SM takes care of everything behind its shopping cart, paypal offers similar service for a general purpose. And for U$ 3% on sales seems quite reasonable, provided I don't have to worry about credit cards, shopping cart, etc.

gus · April 21, 2005

They will not tell me the name of the authority they operate under so as i can fwd on my dispute on. Can anyone tell me ?

Do you have an 'Office of Fair Trading' or something like that ? I have asked them 3 times to tell me & they refuse.

mercphoto · April 21, 2005

andy wrote:

so for buying, here in the u.s., paying by paypal is great. for selling, the 3% sucks.

I was under the impression the 3% was only for credit card payments, and is because the credit card issuer charges that as well. Am I wrong? Misinformed? Naive? Would a beer help? (please say yes...)

Given my impression above I actually have no issue with the 3% fee, and grumble about sellers who expect me to pay the 3% myself. I don't pay that fee when I use my Visa at any other retailer, for example.

I guess what puzzles me more about PayPal is where do they get their revenue stream from?

gus · April 21, 2005

Nikolai wrote:

My sincere condolences..

Otherwise, just as SM takes care of everything behind its shopping cart, paypal offers similar service for a general purpose. And for U$ 3% on sales seems quite reasonable, provided I don't have to worry about credit cards, shopping cart, etc.

Nik...3% is fine...8% is robbery without arms.

dragon300zx · April 21, 2005

Gus they are an ebay company. I think ebay is operated out of california. Find the state and city they are operated under and you can lodge complaints with the BBB, and any local state city or otherwise consumer groups that way. You should also be able to lodge complaints with any consumer protection groups in AU.

Nikolai · April 21, 2005

You mean Better Business Bureau?

Humungus wrote:

They will not tell me the name of the authority they operate under so as i can fwd on my dispute on. Can anyone tell me ?

Do you have an 'Office of Fair Trading' or something like that ? I have asked them 3 times to tell me & they refuse.

http://www.bbb.org/

These guys cover pretty much everyhting that sells..

bkriete · April 21, 2005

If you have a "premier" account, which is required for cc payments, they take 3% of everything including bank transfers. They are a bunch of crooks and customer service is completely nonexistent. I will never do business with them again.

Andy · April 21, 2005

mercphoto wrote:

I was under the impression the 3% was only for credit card payments, and is because the credit card issuer charges that as well. Am I wrong? Misinformed? Naive? Would a beer help? (please say yes...)

Given my impression above I actually have no issue with the 3% fee, and grumble about sellers who expect me to pay the 3% myself. I don't pay that fee when I use my Visa at any other retailer, for example.

I guess what puzzles me more about PayPal is where do they get their revenue stream from?

yeah, it steams me that sellers say "split the paypal fees" i always price my items inclusive of paypal fees, it's part of the cost of doing bizness...

their rev stream? 3%! (and 8%) sometimes ... that adds up to huuuuuuuuge money for them.

dragon300zx · April 21, 2005

Paypal is just like any othe rmerchant service. They get their revenue from the charges they have the 3% or 8% plus whatever else they charge. Plus they have their own credit cards now and stuff like that. The only difference between them and other merchant services is they make it easy for the average joe to accept credit card payments. Normal merchant fees are just over 2% so their fee's are slightly elevated compared to that however it is a cost of accepting electronic payments and everyone who sells should expect to pay for the payment service and not pass it on to the buyer. It is illegal for regular retailers to pass on the merchant company charges in some states (maybe all over I don't know).

DavidTO · April 21, 2005

andy wrote:

their rev stream? 3%! (and 8%) sometimes ... that adds up to huuuuuuuuge money for them.

I would bet that they make most of their money sitting on ours--and investing it. Between the time they get the money and the time they have to pay out...and don't they encourage you to deposit money? That's how the travel industry makes most of their money--you put a deposit on your cruise 6 months in advance...tick, tick, tick, your money's making them money.

cmr164 · April 21, 2005

Humungus wrote:

:soapbox

I sent andy some dosh for my lenses & paypal have taken 8%. Can anyone enlighten me as to how they can get away with this type of crap & still remain popular ?

Me...im shutting my account down today. I have sent & rec 7-8 emails with their disputes dept & they keep replying with the old "you agreed to our terms" crap.

Im cool with 3% as they mention & maybe a 'not so hot' exchange rate but 8% ..you have to be joking paypal.

Never again...:boid

With someone whose financial integrity you trust, you can use www.westernunion.com to send money all over the world and while they are greedy, they don't have have you walking bow legged after you deal with them.

Sam · April 21, 2005

Humungus wrote:

:soapbox

I sent andy some dosh for my lenses & paypal have taken 8%. Can anyone enlighten me as to how they can get away with this type of crap & still remain popular ?

Me...im shutting my account down today. I have sent & rec 7-8 emails with their disputes dept & they keep replying with the old "you agreed to our terms" crap.

Im cool with 3% as they mention & maybe a 'not so hot' exchange rate but 8% ..you have to be joking paypal.

Never again...:boid

I recently signed up with Pay Pal, and to date my only trasaction was to send a few $$ to Andy for the Yosemite weekend, so after reading this i will definitly look into Pay Pal charges.

Gus, as to the BBB thing.........well let me put it this way...If your backs against the wall and you need someone to stand by your side, and you have a coice between the BBB or a toothless butterfly.....take the butterfly!

"Do you have an 'Office of Fair Trading' or something like that ?

You Aussies are a laugh a minute.

Sam

luckyrwe · April 21, 2005

In California the mst that can be charged by state law is 39%, so until they hit that number, it is not illegal. I use PayPal many times, mostly to pay for things, but rarely when I sell. Yes, it is a rip off, I even stated so in my item description currently online, I thought they'd pull that for sure.

It is a cost of doing business. No checks to cash (and maybe bounce), no standing in long bank lines. I will pay 8% for that when the item is under $20. When I sold nine grand worth of Nikon gear on Ebay a year ago, I avoided PayPal because of the fees.

Now I did get the Paypal credit card, but when I read the terms and conditions I cancelled it right away.

Shay Stephens · April 21, 2005

I like paypal
It's easy to use. And I use it a lot, thousands a year in print sales, retainer fees for weddings, portraits, etc that I get paid for via paypal when the customer can't or doesn't want to pay cash or check for something. And I could be wrong, but I doubt they are a non-profit organization

gus · April 22, 2005

cmr164 wrote:

With someone whose financial integrity you trust, you can use www.westernunion.com to send money all over the world and while they are greedy, they don't have have you walking bow legged after you deal with them.

Tried that charles... i sent ricky from AdV rider $360 last year for a set of his world famous BMW bars...western union charged me (from memory) $80 AUD my end to send it which is currently $62 USD. Whats that 22%. Thats about as bow legged as ive ever been mate.

Baldy..one T...you seeing an opening here for a biz ?

gus · April 22, 2005

dragon300zx wrote:

Gus they are an ebay company. I think ebay is operated out of california. Find the state and city they are operated under and you can lodge complaints with the BBB, and any local state city or otherwise consumer groups that way. You should also be able to lodge complaints with any consumer protection groups in AU.

I will tonight...thanks mate

devbobo · April 22, 2005

Humungus wrote:

Tried that charles... i sent ricky from AdV rider $360 last year for a set of his world famous BMW bars...western union charged me (from memory) $80 AUD my end to send it which is currently $62 USD. Whats that 22%. Thats about as bow legged as ive ever been mate.

Baldy..one T...you seeing an opening here for a biz ?

Hey Gus,

Gotta love how us Aussies get screwed money-wise everytime.

david

gus · April 22, 2005

devbobo wrote:

Hey Gus,

Gotta love how us Aussies get screwed money-wise everytime.

david

Yep....just a quiet little backwater.

dragon300zx · April 22, 2005

Yeah but we americans get charges $76 bucks for a case of Cherry Ripes how fair is that?

Ann McRae · April 22, 2005

Hey gus
I just wire transferred money to pay andy for the 70 - 200mm. I paid currency exchange and then the bank fees for the transaction - it worked out to 1.7% for the fees.
There was a very scary disclaimer on the wire form tho, that the bank took no responsibility for the funds actually getting there!!! :uhoh
Does require physically going to the bank, however.
Wonder if it might be better for you to do that next time.
ann

Humungus wrote:

Tried that charles... i sent ricky from AdV rider $360 last year for a set of his world famous BMW bars...western union charged me (from memory) $80 AUD my end to send it which is currently $62 USD. Whats that 22%. Thats about as bow legged as ive ever been mate.

Baldy..one T...you seeing an opening here for a biz ?

gus · April 22, 2005

Ann McRae wrote:

Hey gus
I just wire transferred money to pay andy for the 70 - 200mm. I paid currency exchange and then the bank fees for the transaction - it worked out to 1.7% for the fees.
There was a very scary disclaimer on the wire form tho, that the bank took no responsibility for the funds actually getting there!!! :uhoh
Does require physically going to the bank, however.
Wonder if it might be better for you to do that next time.
ann

Absolutely ann...i will never ever use paypay again. I have set up a separate bank account now for this purpose.

I was an idiot for thinking 3% ment 3% when it really means 8%. Damned 0zzie calculators !

Buuuuttt....a big thanks to andy here for going out of his way to ensure the world of people outside of NY get good glass. I dont want my dispute with PP to cloud that andy has really helped me out here

Sam · April 22, 2005

Humungus wrote:

Absolutely ann...i will never ever use paypay again. I have set up a separate bank account now for this purpose.

I was an idiot for thinking 3% ment 3% when it really means 8%. Damned 0zzie calculators !

Buuuuttt....a big thanks to andy here for going out of his way to ensure the world of people outside of NY get good glass. I dont want my dispute with PP to cloud that andy has really helped me out here

Gus,

Don't go giving Andy too much credit. I'm gona give you the real scoop...............real quite now, and don't tell anyone. Andy has issues.....or more bluntly he's a sick puppy. You see he can't keep anything, the voices keep telling hgim to sell, sell...and so he does, he can't help himself. So you see you just helped him buy and sell something. It relieves the terrible compulsion that naws at his soul.

Remember just between us,

Sam

Andy · April 22, 2005

Sam wrote:

Gus,

Remember just between us,

Sam

i think i'm set for a while. i've moved to all primes. i have an infrared modded dslr coming in a week and i'm really jazzed about that!

gus · April 22, 2005

andy wrote:

i think i'm set for a while. i've moved to all primes. i have an infrared modded dslr coming in a week and i'm really jazzed about that!

You just drive to some sunshine & break that bigboy out & show me why im sleeping on the lounge watching Benny Hinn at 4am talk to me about his new book "what lens jesus would have used."

GerryDavid · April 22, 2005

Shay Stephens wrote:

It's easy to use. And I use it a lot, thousands a year in print sales, retainer fees for weddings, portraits, etc that I get paid for via paypal when the customer can't or doesn't want to pay cash or check for something. And I could be wrong, but I doubt they are a non-profit organization

Ouch, paying paypal fee's on $$$ wedding retainer fee's? You could just have them get a money order or a certified check from the bank. It would cost them a few dollars and save you much more. :0)

Humungus wrote:

:soapbox

I sent andy some dosh for my lenses & paypal have taken 8%. Can anyone enlighten me as to how they can get away with this type of crap & still remain popular ?

Why are you complaining? If your sending andy the money, then hes the one that pays the fee's, not you? Unless hes making you pay them.

I think I just get charged 3% plus 50 cents or something like that, to get american money into canada.

I dont really mind thier 3% fee, but if you add that to ebays 3% or what ever it is, then it adds up. But I prefer it when I sell on ebay. I dont have to wait for the money order to come, wait for it to cash, get emails from the person asking where it is since im waiting weeks for it to clear, then mail the item. I can just get the money and send the item the same day, give them positive feedback and forget about it until its time to remind them to leave me feedback. :0)

gus · April 22, 2005

GerryDavid wrote:

Why are you complaining? If your sending andy the money, then hes the one that pays the fee's, not you? Unless hes making you pay them.

Read my rant mate....i am sending andy money to buy lenses for me. He is doing me a favour by taking that money & shopping for me in the US so as i get there in a week or so & can then get straight into it....not run around trying to price glass in SF.

Andy · April 22, 2005

simple

GerryDavid wrote:

Ouch, paying paypal fee's on $$$ wedding retainer fee's? You could just have them get a money order or a certified check from the bank. It would cost them a few dollars and save you much more. :0)

shay gets a lot of wedding business off of google searches and his website marketing - some from very very far away people. if you want to book a weekend with shay, you better get the $$ in fast fast fast - he's a busy popular and wanted man - so for a bride from say, norway, sending a deposit via paypal *right now* locks them in and gives shay the confidence that he needs to block out a saturday

Shay Stephens · April 22, 2005

Totally true, I just did a small Norwegian wedding today (downloading the pictures now in fact) and have two more Norwegian weddings next week, then one regular wedding upstate. May is going to be crazy with three in NY and one in Phoenix AZ. So speed is important, as is some Countries have trouble getting checks to me, so depending on the size and time of the wedding, paypal may be the only option for them to book me in time. Paypal helps me make me money, so I like them :-)

By the way, Central Park looks beautiful right now in the spring! If you get a chance to go, go!

andy wrote:

shay gets a lot of wedding business off of google searches and his website marketing - some from very very far away people. if you want to book a weekend with shay, you better get the $$ in fast fast fast - he's a busy popular and wanted man - so for a bride from say, norway, sending a deposit via paypal *right now* locks them in and gives shay the confidence that he needs to block out a saturday

gus · April 22, 2005

Humungus wrote:

Read my rant mate....i am sending andy money to buy lenses for me. He is doing me a favour by taking that money & shopping for me in the US so as i get there in a week or so & can then get straight into it....not run around trying to price glass in SF.

My retraction...i can see that you assumed im buying them from andy & not asking him to buy them for me. Just ask andy...dealing with me is a longer process than an indian wedding.

paypal issues (rant warning)

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