An hour with the 5d Mk II

aktse · November 13, 2008

And it was a production model!

1. Shot of me taken with the camera using a 50 mm f/1.2

We were allowed to shoot with it as long as we didn't post the frames, but I didn't have a CF card with me and only had my G9. Sam and JC, however, got some frames, and can probably do some comparisons with their 5D and post his thoughts.

2. In Sam's Hands

3. Same as the 50D. CA mode (creative something) and three custom functions

4. Size compared to a 1D

5. Top of the camera

6. Microphone is in front

7. Blurry photo of a microphone jack

8. Live View (and movie) button same as the 50D, different than the 40D

9. It was the perfect model

I also have G9 videos of Jim Rose speaking about the camera, and I can post some of there if people want to hear his thoughts.

I did take away a few things....

The high ISO is everything that they say it is; about 2 1/2 stops better
CS4 is needed/CS3 will not read the RAW files; this is an adobe thing and not canon. LR2 will read it (uses the same ACR Engine), but you can't export it as a smart object into CS3.
Video length is 12 minutes, max, but you can immediately take an another video
You need UDMA CF cards take videos
You can hit the shutter while taking a video, but there will be a break in the movie file, and you'll hear the shutter going off, but the movie will play continuously
You can pick aperture for the video, but the 5dMkII will set everything else. You adjust things by exposure compensation

There's more tidbits, but I can't remember at this moment. Maybe Sam, JC, Doug or Chris can add more....

Moogle Pepper · November 13, 2008

Lucky!!

Awais Yaqub · November 13, 2008

Lucky !

Thanks for some insight

Moogle Pepper · November 13, 2008

Awais, we have to negotiate with our universities to pay for this camera for us! It's for education!

ivar · November 13, 2008

aktse wrote:

CS4 is needed/CS3 will not read the RAW files; this is an adobe thing and not canon. LR2 will read it (uses the same ACR Engine), but you can't export it as a smart object into CS3.

Is this official from Canon & Adobe somewhere? I can understand that they currently don't support the 5dII files in ACR, but I find it very weird that they wouldn't update ACR so they can be read once the camera is released, and that you would be required to purchase CS4

Awais Yaqub · November 13, 2008

Moogle Pepper wrote:

Awais, we have to negotiate with our universities to pay for this camera for us! It's for education!

They will throw me out instead.

aktse · November 13, 2008

ivar wrote:

Is this official from Canon & Adobe somewhere? I can understand that they currently don't support the 5dII files in ACR, but I find it very weird that they wouldn't update ACR so they can be read once the camera is released, and that you would be required to purchase CS4

I haven't talked to adobe or heard directly from them, and we were only speaking with the canon rep, but I will be sending some e-mails to my contacts at adobe. This surprised us... Surprised all of us there.

From canon's standpoint -- it makes no different to them since DPP reads the RAWs without issue. This is an adobe issue... The work around is to open in something else, convert, and then open in CS3.

From what I understood -- historically, Adobe does not go back and updates their older software with the latest camera models and the ACR engine is very old in LR1 and CS3 are old.

Maybe JC, Sam, Doug or Chris remember more than I did? We got on this topic when someone tried to open up a 50D raw file in CS3 as a smart open from LR2 (I think) and couldn't do so.

I hope that I misunderstood, or am wrong...

I'll do a bit of digging. If anyone else knows more, please post

edited: people are asking the same questions on Adobe's site and you need some DNG work arounds in your workflow.

from the thread.

Yes, but you will have to convert the file from Canon raw to DNG using the free DNG Converter. Since CS4 is shipping, there will be no further upgrades to Camera Raw 4.x that was in CS3

Moogle Pepper · November 13, 2008

Awais Yaqub wrote:

They will throw me out instead.

Hey. At least you tried!!

But if you are serious that CS3 and LR won't be able to read it's RAWs...then i will forever say goodbye to Adobe products.

Sam · November 13, 2008

5d Ii
Yesterday I had an opportunity to hold the new 5D II, and take a couple of shots with it. The high iso is very impressive, although I can only see the jpg. Adobe RAW support isn't available yet. The Canon Rep asked us to not post any of the 5D images on the internet so no images of April are available. :cry

It had the 50 mm 1.2 lens attached so I shot at 1.2 since I don't have any 1.2 Len's, ( I know hard to image) I did learn that 1.2 is a very narrow DOF.

This will be a killer camera, and as soon as I knock off a few 7/11 stores, I'll be getting me one of these.

Here is the 5D II taken with 16-35 f.8 1600.

Sam

BeachBill · November 13, 2008

Moogle Pepper wrote:

But if you are serious that CS3 and LR won't be able to read it's RAWs...then i will forever say goodbye to Adobe products.

Adobe has had this policy for a long time. As soon as CS3 came out, there were no more updates for CS2 ACR. The same is/will be true with CS4. Adobe wants to make money, plain and simple.

Sam · November 13, 2008

Quote:
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset">Originally Posted by Moogle Pepper
But if you are serious that CS3 and LR won't be able to read it's RAWs...then i will forever say goodbye to Adobe products.
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
Moogle,

Please let me know what program you find that will do all of what CS3 will do, and open 5D II RAW files.

Adobe has had this policy for a long time. As soon as CS3 came out, there were no more updates for CS2 ACR. The same is/will be true with CS4. Adobe wants to make money, plain and simple.

Only makes sense.......why would anyone continue to pour money into an older version to update and add features without any revenue generated?

You, and I may not like it but if we need or want the latest features, we need to buy the latest version.

Canon also said they wouldn't upgrade my 5D I to a 5D II without $$$$$.

Sam

Moogle Pepper · November 13, 2008

Well, hahaha, I will stick with CS3 and not fork over an arm and a limb for CS4. haha!

jdryan3 · November 13, 2008

Esd?
April -
Did they give you an ESD - Estimated Ship Date? The folks here would surely appreciate it.

jdryan3 · November 13, 2008

Moogle Pepper wrote:

Well, hahaha, I will stick with CS3 and not fork over an arm and a limb for CS4. haha!

I suppose everything is relative, but it is only like $160. NAPP discount and others are out there. LR2 is only $84.
So no tree limbs or arms needed.:nah

aktse · November 14, 2008

jdryan3 wrote:

April -
Did they give you an ESD - Estimated Ship Date? The folks here would surely appreciate it.

The canon rep can't tell us anything that isn't public knowledge. However, he usually has the pre-production model of gadgets, and this time, they shipped him the full production model of the camera with all of the fixings (retail box + manuals, etc -- what is sold in the stores). This usually signals that it's *really* close to shipping.

So... it must be very soon.

I also played with the pre-production of the 50D before it came out, and it was out on the market about a month+ afterward.

For this... I think the estimates are correct -- a matter of few weeks or even less.

Richard Bui took detail notes of the meeting and they can be found on his blog

He got some nice quotes from the rep.

Nikolai · November 14, 2008

BeachBill wrote:

Adobe has had this policy for a long time. As soon as CS3 came out, there were no more updates for CS2 ACR. The same is/will be true with CS4. Adobe wants to make money, plain and simple.

Well, to be fair, they have released ACR4.6 (which is CS3 version) lately to support 40D, even though CS4 has already been out of the doors. But other than that I wouldn't expect it to be supported much longer...

Nikolai · November 14, 2008

April, Sam,
thank you for sharing!

April, do you think you will be able to snatch a few copies for our Sat Dec 6 shindig?

bui4ever · November 14, 2008

Sam wrote:

Yesterday I had an opportunity to hold the new 5D II, and take a couple of shots with it. The high iso is very impressive, although I can only see the jpg. Adobe RAW support isn't available yet. The Canon Rep asked us to not post any of the 5D images on the internet so no images of April are available. :cry

It had the 50 mm 1.2 lens attached so I shot at 1.2 since I don't have any 1.2 Len's, ( I know hard to image) I did learn that 1.2 is a very narrow DOF.

This will be a killer camera, and as soon as I knock off a few 7/11 stores, I'll be getting me one of these.

Here is the 5D II taken with 16-35 f.8 1600.

Sam

Sam,

I got some shots of you:

Using your lens (24-105) to photograph you using my lens (16-35) to photograph the 5D Mark II.

Sam · November 14, 2008

Thanks for the photos. This isn't a complaint, (I seem to have the same issue), but my 5D does seem to exaggerate the red in skin tones, as yours is doing here.

Does anyone know of a work around? High ISO seems to exacerbate the issue.

ps: I like the 16-35 lens. If only money wasn't the issue..........:cry

Sam

jogle · November 14, 2008

are you using lightroom? Have you tried the beta camera profiles from adobe? I find them much better for accurate hue at high saturation then the ACR profiles?

bui4ever · November 14, 2008

Sam wrote:

Thanks for the photos. This isn't a complaint, (I seem to have the same issue), but my 5D does seem to exaggerate the red in skin tones, as yours is doing here.

Does anyone know of a work around? High ISO seems to exacerbate the issue.

ps: I like the 16-35 lens. If only money wasn't the issue..........:cry

Sam

I'm running +2 Magenta, +1 Amber for better skin tones. I should have done a custom white balance...

I love the 16-35. Especially on a full frame.

roentarre · November 15, 2008

This is a very comprehensive review. I love to buy this camera one day!

LiquidAir · November 15, 2008

Sam wrote:

Thanks for the photos. This isn't a complaint, (I seem to have the same issue), but my 5D does seem to exaggerate the red in skin tones, as yours is doing here.

Does anyone know of a work around? High ISO seems to exacerbate the issue.

ps: I like the 16-35 lens. If only money wasn't the issue..........:cry

Sam

Canon RAW conversion leans toward the red for skin tones. If you convert your RAWs with ACR they'll have much more yellow in them. However, for some images I find ACR to be too orange and I'll either use DPP or DxO to get my reds back.

As for high ISO, if you are shooting at high ISO under low wattage incandescent light, the blue channel can end up so hopelessly underexposed that there is no way to fully recover natural looking color. When I get a 5DII and can shoot reasonably at ISO6400, I am going to start using an 80A filter under incandescent light to get more natural color.

Shima · November 15, 2008

This post makes me even more anxious, but it's good to know that we're getting closer to an eventual day that I'll see mine! Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

kdog · November 15, 2008

I just want to say thank-you to all you early adopters in your unselfish quest to help Canon work out the kinks on these first units, so that I may get the very best possible quality by waiting a few months before I get mine.

BeachBill · November 15, 2008

Canon reps with have 5D MKII in Las Vegas on Thanksgiving weekend
Canon reps will have the 5D MKII at Casey's Camera in Las Vegas Friday November 28 through Sunday November 30 (Thanksgiving weekend) for hands on demonstrations.

Here is Casey's website with contact and address info
http://www.caseyscamera.com/
(even though the website lists Monday through Saturday hours only, they are now open on Sundays too).

Unfortunately I will be out of town that weekend; why they decided to do it on a holiday weekend I will never know.

Moogle Pepper · November 15, 2008

kdog wrote:

I just want to say thank-you to all you early adopters in your unselfish quest to help Canon work out the kinks on these first units, so that I may get the very best possible quality by waiting a few months before I get mine.

Yep!! In agreement with that statement!

Sam · November 15, 2008

While I would normally want to take a wait and see approach, if it was financially possible for me I would have already ordered one. While I have no facts what's o ever, my gut says this camera will not have any major design issues.

Besides with the end coming on 12/21/12 why wait?

Sam

Sam · November 15, 2008

LiquidAir wrote:

Canon RAW conversion leans toward the red for skin tones. If you convert your RAWs with ACR they'll have much more yellow in them. However, for some images I find ACR to be too orange and I'll either use DPP or DxO to get my reds back.

As for high ISO, if you are shooting at high ISO under low wattage incandescent light, the blue channel can end up so hopelessly underexposed that there is no way to fully recover natural looking color. When I get a 5DII and can shoot reasonably at ISO6400, I am going to start using an 80A filter under incandescent light to get more natural color.

Good info, thanks for posting.

Sam

An hour with the 5d Mk II

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