Monitor

ladytx · November 19, 2008

Not sure if this is the correct forum but I'll give it a try.

I have had a CRT (one of those huge ones) for several years. Well it has died. I went to purchase a new monitor and they are completely different now ... lol. Anyway, I got a Dell 22" LCD. Very different to work with!!!

My question is this: Ever-so-often I can see faintly horizontal lines moving on the screen. Is this normal? Is the screen refreshing or something? Or is something wrong with this monitor? I have 30 days to return it.

Is a Dell monitor ok? There was also a HP and a Samsung but this one had more resolution. Did I make a right choice or not?

Advice please.

pyry · November 19, 2008

ladytx wrote:

Not sure if this is the correct forum but I'll give it a try.

I have had a CRT (one of those huge ones) for several years. Well it has died. I went to purchase a new monitor and they are completely different now ... lol. Anyway, I got a Dell 22" LCD. Very different to work with!!!

My question is this: Ever-so-often I can see faintly horizontal lines moving on the screen. Is this normal? Is the screen refreshing or something? Or is something wrong with this monitor? I have 30 days to return it.

Is a Dell monitor ok? There was also a HP and a Samsung but this one had more resolution. Did I make a right choice or not?

Advice please.

I see faint refresh-like lines every now and then on my NEC lcd too, on certain darkish flat colours. My guess is it's the overdrive they use to boost response times - or just plain old interference from some other electrical device. Probably not something you should worry about unless you see it constantly and enough so to distract you.

There's a lot more to selecting a good display for (serious) photo work than resolution, which model do you have? Dell has all kinds of displays.

jforbes · November 19, 2008

A quick introduction to LCD types:

There are three kinds of LCDs. They all have somewhat different characteristics, and are of varying acceptability for photo editing.

First, the bad news: If you have a 22" display, pretty much no matter who made it, it is made with a TN panel. TN panels are the ones that are the worst for photo editing.

A few things to note first:

Viewing angle: LCDs are best viewed from directly in front. Different kinds of LCDs have different average viewing angles, but also different effects when you look at one at even a moderate angle. This is actually very important, as some panels have major color shifts if you aren't *perfectly* positioned to see the whole display... and even then, it can still be an issue with larger monitors.

Input (or output) lag is a phenomenon that occurs with LCDs. Some don't have any, but most have some. I can't tell you what causes it and why some displays don't have any, and others do. But this is a totally separate phenomenon from response time. Essentially, most LCDs take a moment to process the incoming image. Some take no time, others can take 20-70 milliseconds before they display what has been sent to them. Sometimes, this will be noticeable, other times, it won't. It won't affect photo editing much, the biggest area where a lot of input lag will hurt you in that area is if you're trying to do something careful in photoshop on a very laggy display, it can be a bit harder to move the cursor very precisely. Input lag makes a lot more of a difference for people who play games, for obivious reasons. If you would like to see an example of input lag, I can show you a photo that has a CRT and a laggy LCD running the same stopwatch program, and the LCD is .1 seconds behind the CRT.

Reponse time is how long the pixels take to change colors. Monitors with very slow response times will show ghosts behind quickly moving objects. This won't affect photo editing either. This matters most for gamers and people who watch movies. Also, if you try to read text while scrolling, it can be more difficult on an LCD with poor response time, as you just see it as being very blurry when it's moving. Response time is not a major concern these days. Pretty much any modern panel has perfectly acceptable response time for movies and games. This isn't really anything to worry about at all.

Gamut is the range of colors the LCD can represent. Most consumer monitors are geared towards displaying sRGB, which is the standard color space, and this is fine for most photo editing. Many high end panels, however, support wide color gamuts, and they tend to be the ones used in a professional environment, particularly in printing, where what the user sees on the screen needs to match the printed result as much as possible. These people don't work in the sRGB colorspace - but sRGB is fine for the majority of us, as the printers we all use are set up to work in sRGB. If you try to use something else, it will cause issues and make things worse.

Here are the three main kinds of LCDs:

TN: TN panels are the most common LCD panels on the market. They are the cheapest, and are the lowest quality, especially when it comes to photo editing.

Pros: TN panels are very responsive. The pixels take less time to change to other colors than other panel types, which reduces ghosting, and they tend to have less lag. It is the only kind of LCD that can have 0 lag. They work very well for games, and are also good for office type applications. They can be ok for watching movies as long as you're watching head on.

Cons: TN panels have a major problem when it comes to photo editing: they have poor viewing angles. They are usually advertized as 160 degrees or so, but the reality is that even sitting in front of a TN panel, the top/bottom of the display is at a large enough angle to you that the colors being displayed are badly misrepresented. For instance, on my TN panel, if I look at a solid purple block, it looks purple at the bottom of the screen... but blue at the top. Unmistakeably blue. This is kind of a killer when trying to get colors right in working with photos. On my other LCD, which is a PVA one, the color shift is very minimal. TN panels also tend to have more backlight bleeding issues, so brightness across the whole display tends to be a lot less consistent than other kinds of monitors.

PVA/MVA -

Pros: You want a nice black? You got it! Best contrast. Good color, good viewing angles with minimal color shift at any angle. In general make very nice looking displays.

Cons: More expensive. High input lag, mediocre response time. Color shifting is relatively minimal, but grays/blacks can shift quite noticeably when you're only slightly off axis.

IPS -

Pros: Best color. Best viewing angles. Excellent contrast. Best overall.

Cons: Expensive. Some input lag. Can have somewhat sparkly appearance.

With TN panels, you're making the biggest compromise, there are some huge minuses that go along with them, though the plusses are nice if you play games.

Different manufacturers use all kinds of different panels. Both of my LCDs are Samsungs. One is TN, the other is PVA. The TN one is terrible for serious work on photos because my monitors are a bit higher than they should be, and I get major color shift issues with it. The PVA panel is fine for that, and the colors are better to begin with. But I don't dare play a game on the PVA panel, it's painful. Dell uses all different kinds of panels. Sometimes even different panels in the same models (called a panel lottery).

ziggy53 · November 19, 2008

I moved this to "Digital Darkroom Gear" where I think you will find a more appropriate audience.

ladytx · November 19, 2008

pyry wrote:

I see faint refresh-like lines every now and then on my NEC lcd too, on certain darkish flat colours. My guess is it's the overdrive they use to boost response times - or just plain old interference from some other electrical device. Probably not something you should worry about unless you see it constantly and enough so to distract you.

There's a lot more to selecting a good display for (serious) photo work than resolution, which model do you have? Dell has all kinds of displays.

I have the Dell S2209W which, after reading the below response and checking, has the TN panel display. I have been doing some searching but it just has my mind spinning and I'm lost. Wish I could just go into Best Buy and bring one home but don't even how to do that or if that's possible. Many of the specs I have read don't list the panel display. What monitor do you use?

ladytx · November 19, 2008

jforbes wrote:

A quick introduction to LCD types:

There are three kinds of LCDs. They all have somewhat different characteristics, and are of varying acceptability for photo editing.

First, the bad news: If you have a 22" display, pretty much no matter who made it, it is made with a TN panel. TN panels are the ones that are the worst for photo editing.

A few things to note first:

Viewing angle: LCDs are best viewed from directly in front. Different kinds of LCDs have different average viewing angles, but also different effects when you look at one at even a moderate angle. This is actually very important, as some panels have major color shifts if you aren't *perfectly* positioned to see the whole display... and even then, it can still be an issue with larger monitors.

Input (or output) lag is a phenomenon that occurs with LCDs. Some don't have any, but most have some. I can't tell you what causes it and why some displays don't have any, and others do. But this is a totally separate phenomenon from response time. Essentially, most LCDs take a moment to process the incoming image. Some take no time, others can take 20-70 milliseconds before they display what has been sent to them. Sometimes, this will be noticeable, other times, it won't. It won't affect photo editing much, the biggest area where a lot of input lag will hurt you in that area is if you're trying to do something careful in photoshop on a very laggy display, it can be a bit harder to move the cursor very precisely. Input lag makes a lot more of a difference for people who play games, for obivious reasons. If you would like to see an example of input lag, I can show you a photo that has a CRT and a laggy LCD running the same stopwatch program, and the LCD is .1 seconds behind the CRT.

Reponse time is how long the pixels take to change colors. Monitors with very slow response times will show ghosts behind quickly moving objects. This won't affect photo editing either. This matters most for gamers and people who watch movies. Also, if you try to read text while scrolling, it can be more difficult on an LCD with poor response time, as you just see it as being very blurry when it's moving. Response time is not a major concern these days. Pretty much any modern panel has perfectly acceptable response time for movies and games. This isn't really anything to worry about at all.

Gamut is the range of colors the LCD can represent. Most consumer monitors are geared towards displaying sRGB, which is the standard color space, and this is fine for most photo editing. Many high end panels, however, support wide color gamuts, and they tend to be the ones used in a professional environment, particularly in printing, where what the user sees on the screen needs to match the printed result as much as possible. These people don't work in the sRGB colorspace - but sRGB is fine for the majority of us, as the printers we all use are set up to work in sRGB. If you try to use something else, it will cause issues and make things worse.

Here are the three main kinds of LCDs:

TN: TN panels are the most common LCD panels on the market. They are the cheapest, and are the lowest quality, especially when it comes to photo editing.

Pros: TN panels are very responsive. The pixels take less time to change to other colors than other panel types, which reduces ghosting, and they tend to have less lag. It is the only kind of LCD that can have 0 lag. They work very well for games, and are also good for office type applications. They can be ok for watching movies as long as you're watching head on.

Cons: TN panels have a major problem when it comes to photo editing: they have poor viewing angles. They are usually advertized as 160 degrees or so, but the reality is that even sitting in front of a TN panel, the top/bottom of the display is at a large enough angle to you that the colors being displayed are badly misrepresented. For instance, on my TN panel, if I look at a solid purple block, it looks purple at the bottom of the screen... but blue at the top. Unmistakeably blue. This is kind of a killer when trying to get colors right in working with photos. On my other LCD, which is a PVA one, the color shift is very minimal. TN panels also tend to have more backlight bleeding issues, so brightness across the whole display tends to be a lot less consistent than other kinds of monitors.

PVA/MVA -

Pros: You want a nice black? You got it! Best contrast. Good color, good viewing angles with minimal color shift at any angle. In general make very nice looking displays.

Cons: More expensive. High input lag, mediocre response time. Color shifting is relatively minimal, but grays/blacks can shift quite noticeably when you're only slightly off axis.

IPS -

Pros: Best color. Best viewing angles. Excellent contrast. Best overall.

Cons: Expensive. Some input lag. Can have somewhat sparkly appearance.

With TN panels, you're making the biggest compromise, there are some huge minuses that go along with them, though the plusses are nice if you play games.

Different manufacturers use all kinds of different panels. Both of my LCDs are Samsungs. One is TN, the other is PVA. The TN one is terrible for serious work on photos because my monitors are a bit higher than they should be, and I get major color shift issues with it. The PVA panel is fine for that, and the colors are better to begin with. But I don't dare play a game on the PVA panel, it's painful. Dell uses all different kinds of panels. Sometimes even different panels in the same models (called a panel lottery).

Thank you very much for this information. When m CRT quit I was afraid there was a lot more to buying a monitor than just going and getting one. I have done some searching after reading your response and now I am confused and overwhelmed.

What monitor do you use? Can I get an LCD monitor for photo editing for 500.00 or less?

Newsy · November 19, 2008

ladytx wrote:

Thank you very much for this information. When m CRT quit I was afraid there was a lot more to buying a monitor than just going and getting one. I have done some searching after reading your response and now I am confused and overwhelmed.

What monitor do you use? Can I get an LCD monitor for photo editing for 500.00 or less?

Research the new HP L2475w. It is one of the best IPS panel based monitors, outside of the NEC LCD2490 24" series, that you can get for a reasonable price. It may be a bit more money than you want to spend but it is a very good option.

Failing that, check out the Samsung 245T, a PVA panel LCD monitor.

In 22", HP has recently introduced a PVA monitor - the LP2275w, and Lenovo has the L220x which is also a PVA panel. Avoid most 22" as they are almost all TN panels.

And you will need to calibrate these monitors, just as with a CRT, to ensure color accuracy & balance. You'll want to consider the Xrite "i1" (AKA EyeOne, iOne, etc) and Spyder3 from Colorvision.

If you have not already found them, check out my previous posts in this forum for reference sites and useful links on monitors.

ladytx · November 19, 2008

Newsy wrote:

Research the new HP L2475w. It is one of the best IPS panel based monitors, outside of the NEC LCD2490 24" series, that you can get for a reasonable price. It may be a bit more money than you want to spend but it is a very good option.

Failing that, check out the Samsung 245T, a PVA panel LCD monitor.

In 22", HP has recently introduced a PVA monitor - the LP2275w, and Lenovo has the L220x which is also a PVA panel. Avoid most 22" as they are almost all TN panels.

And you will need to calibrate these monitors, just as with a CRT, to ensure color accuracy & balance. You'll want to consider the Xrite "i1" (AKA EyeOne, iOne, etc) and Spyder3 from Colorvision.

If you have not already found them, check out my previous posts in this forum for reference sites and useful links on monitors.

Thanks for much for the reply. I will check into the monitors you have listed. I am not stuck on 22". I have Spyder 2. Is this ok? I will try to find your previous posts.

jforbes · November 19, 2008

I have two monitors (Well, 2 LCDs), one is brand new, and the other is several years old:

Samsung 2493HM - this is a 24" TN display. It has noticeable color shifting. I can use it for light photo editing, but I need to double check it against my other display to see if it looks right. I forgot to mention. Color shifting on TNs is by far the worst when you're under the display slightly - but it's bad enough that on a 22 or 24" monitor, just sitting normally, you'll run in to some color shifting at the top of the screen, unless the monitor is completely below your eyes... then there'll be a slight shift at the bottom of the screen, though not as bad what happens on top.

Samsung 204T - This is a 20" 4:3 PVA panel. It does color pretty well, and is somewhat more accurate than the 2493. But I can look at it from any direction, and colors barely change I paid $500 for it in late 2005. But there are newer, better panels out there now. It'd probably be a decent used choice, but you can probably do better, too. These are going for $300 on eBay right at this moment, and I don't think that's a good deal. For $100 more you can get a new HP that's the same size and is likely a significantly better display.

I don't have all Samsungs for any particular reason, they just happend to have the product that met my needs at a given price/time. (My CRT is also a Samsung. Go figure.). Samsung is probably the least consistent of major monitor brands, and have been some of the heavier users of panel lotteries in the past couple of years.

Move up and down and look carefully at the colors.

Here's sort of a worst case example:
http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/viewing_angle.php#angle_purple

Here are some display options at or under $500 that should be most appropriate for photo editing (Also note, the different types of VA panels are pretty similar in characteristics):

BenQ FP241VW - 24", P-MVA, 1920x1200, should be a bit under $500
Lenovo L220X - 22", S-PVA, 1920x1200, should be $400-450
Westinghouse L2410NM - 24", S-MVA, $400 or so
HP LP2065 - 20", 1600x1200 4:3 (Not widescreen) panel lottery, may have an IPS or MVA, $400

Those are probably the best options for photo editing under $500. Most 24" IPS or MVA panels start in the $600-700 range, and there are precious few (though some) that are smaller than that.

My pick would probably be the Lenovo - higher pixel density and it's a nice display, or the HP 20" model if you want a shot at an IPS panel, or might not desire widescreen. The Westinghouse 24", I've not seen in person, but it's a cheap MVA 24" panel. You probably won't find one cheaper unless an amazing bargain comes along.

If you pay attention to deal web sites, you might be able to get something, but most of them are TNs. About 7-10 days ago, there was a deal on a 20" Acer PVA panel for $135, so they *can* happen, but most of the monitors on these sites tend to be cheap TNs for really low prices (22" for $175-200 is common).

The best used option is probably a Dell 2007FP - but you need to be somewhat careful as they did a panel lottery with these, and the IPS panel is the one you'd want. I've heard the PVA panels they used in many of them aren't very good.

Lastly, it's not that you *can't* use a TN panel to edit photos with. You just need to be careful with it, and watch your viewing angles carefully.

The easiest way to tell what kind of display something is is by looking at two things: price, viewing angle. If it's cheap, it's *probably* TN. And if the listed viewing angle is closer to 160 degrees than 175+, it's a TN. If it's a high viewing angle, then it can be *VA or IPS.

pyry · November 19, 2008

ladytx wrote:

I have the Dell S2209W which, after reading the below response and checking, has the TN panel display. I have been doing some searching but it just has my mind spinning and I'm lost. Wish I could just go into Best Buy and bring one home but don't even how to do that or if that's possible. Many of the specs I have read don't list the panel display. What monitor do you use?

I don't blame you for being lost..

I use a NEC Multisync LCD2090Uxi. In addition to the display models already listed here, all the Uxi models from NEC do the job with flying colours - they are on the pricey side of things, but get you excellent accuracy and can be calibrated (get a kit that comes with a calibrator, if you go this way) without losing colour tones.

Scott_Quier · November 19, 2008

jforbes wrote:

Samsung 204T - This is a 20" 4:3 PVA panel. It does color pretty well, and is somewhat more accurate than the 2493. But I can look at it from any direction, and colors barely change I paid $500 for it in late 2005. But there are newer, better panels out there now. It'd probably be a decent used choice, but you can probably do better, too. These are going for $300 on eBay right at this moment, and I don't think that's a good deal. For $100 more you can get a new HP that's the same size and is likely a significantly better display.

Hmmmm .... This makes me feel a little better. I didn't know what I was buying a couple years ago (if it was that long ago - can't remember) when I picked up my first one of these as Sam's Club. About 6 months later, my son bought one. Then he got deployed to Iraq so he donated his monitor to the cause (Me!).

Rene` · November 20, 2008

Dell UltraSharp 2408WFP 24-inch
I just bought a Dell UltraSharp 2408WFP 24-inch for 517.... free shipping!

I love it. It is much better than the TN screens at work.

I am waiting for my test prints to arrive. They should be here today.

ladytx wrote:

Thank you very much for this information. When m CRT quit I was afraid there was a lot more to buying a monitor than just going and getting one. I have done some searching after reading your response and now I am confused and overwhelmed.

What monitor do you use? Can I get an LCD monitor for photo editing for 500.00 or less?

Blackwood · November 21, 2008

I love my CRT, and it still works, but COSTCO has a great deal on the new Samsung 23" LCD with a native resolution of 2,048 x 1,152 (QWXGA), so I picked one up today (will be on sale for $250 starting black friday, at which point I'll get a credit for the difference between sale price and what I paid).

Will report after I get it hooked up and calibrated.

http://www.tomsguide.com/us/23-inch-QWXGA-LCD-Monitors,news-2922.html

jforbes · November 22, 2008

Just so you know, that is a TN panel. If you sit up close to it, it will shift colors in areas of the screen at varying angles, so pay some extra attention to that when you do get it.

Sweeper · November 28, 2008

Very interesting thread !! I bought an ACER 22" 2 years ago and up to now, did not know any differences were out there. I have a Spyder II and once calibrated, never found much difference between screen and print. But this thread has opened my eyes to other possibilities that I was not aware of.

Is there a bottom line at this point? I do a fair amount of photo editing so, which brand and model would fit the bill for optimum performance and color reliability in a 22 or higher sized LCD monitor?

Tks...
...Steve

jforbes · December 5, 2008

22"?

Lenovo L220x. It's really the only choice at 22", as everything else is a TN.

1920x1200, nice high resolution, and it's a *VA screen. Runs for $450 or so.

Yes, it's a lot more expensive than the $150 TN panels on sale recently. This is a fact of life with good LCDs, unfortunately.

Newsy · December 5, 2008

jforbes wrote:

22"?

Lenovo L220x. It's really the only choice at 22", as everything else is a TN.

1920x1200, nice high resolution, and it's a *VA screen. Runs for $450 or so.

Yes, it's a lot more expensive than the $150 TN panels on sale recently. This is a fact of life with good LCDs, unfortunately.

There is also the HP LP2275 S-PVA 1680x1050 which is affordable.

http://www.prad.de/en/monitore/reviews.html

.

Kalrog · December 7, 2008

When I am searching for a monitor - how do I know what type of panel it is? I don't see that as a search criteria or even listed in the specs on most hardware purchasing websites.

BigAl · December 7, 2008

Kalrog wrote:

When I am searching for a monitor - how do I know what type of panel it is? I don't see that as a search criteria or even listed in the specs on most hardware purchasing websites.

Check the links in my post here

f-rider · December 8, 2008

Very useful thread, great explanations but shopping is made difficult by the mfg's who don't list the type of panel and the geeks at the stores don't seem to know what you're talking about either, when questioned on the type of panel.

Still lots of good info here. Thanks.

jforbes · December 9, 2008

The "geeks" at the stores aren't. They rarely know their stuff.

Sure, the kid might know a bit more than the average person, but some general basic knowledge on what you're selling is pretty important. They should be able to tell you that a monitor with a 5ms response time will ghost less than one with a 16ms response time. They likely won't be able to tell you that that 16ms panel is 16ms because it's a non accelerated IPS panel that will be better than the cheapie TN for everything that isn't gaming (Or maybe watching a movie).

The manufacturers that include TN panels have no real reason to tell you that it is one. The ones that include other kinds of panels may or may not. They probably don't, because most of their customers don't know the difference either.

This is part of the reason why it's hard to get a good monitor in a smaller size. The people that *need* the best displays to do their work happily pay for their wide gamut S-IPS NEC display, which costs double or more that of what the consumer models cost. The consumer sees "This 22" monitor is $170. That 20" one is $450. It does look a little bit better, but that's a ripoff!", so, when not many people buy the product, even if it is a higher profit item, the big retail chains stop selling them, and then the manufacturers make even less of them. To be sure, they aren't a dying breed or anything like that, but the fact that the better displays cost disproportionally more means that they're a disproportionally small segment of the market.

As for how to tell, the tell tale sign of a TN is the 160 degree viewing angle. If you're looking at one, it's really easy. Just vertically move yourself, particularly below the display, and see how the color shifts. It'll be very bad on a TN panel. TNs aren't bad from above, but they do shift some - they tend to get more white. Also, consider that not all colors will show the shift. Another trick is to get up close to it (makes it easier to change your viewing angle), and just move up and down a bit, looking above you in particular. Blue in particular will likely get a LOT darker when you move downwards, even just a little bit. When I lay the display on my laptop back as far as possible, this text dissapears. But the emoticons to the right don't, they are actually looking pretty good. The photo on the man on the left at the top of the screen has his skin looking bright silver, and most of the other elements of the photos are messed up.

PVA Panels will have more horizontal shift (yes, even more than a TN, but it isn't as bad as the vertical shift on a TN) - so if you can go below the monitor without a shift, go from side to side. The color may shift some, depending on what color it is. Also, the white/black contrast can get muddy. But they are in a league far removed from TN with the color shifting, and will be fine for editing photos and such. Just don't get one if you play games.

An IPS panel will perform better than either when it comes to viewing angle, though on a spec sheet, there's a good chance the numbers will be the same or similar, so you can't count on that for much. You might or might not be able to tell a *VA panel apart from an IPS one, but don't worry about that distinction so much.

If you can't tell, you could always come here or go to any number of other forums (Some good computer specific forums can be found at ars technica, anandtech, and hardocp, all different computer websites with somewhat different groups of users) - you can probably even find the information you're looking for just by searching these forums or even just using google and skimming through the results:

http://www.google.com/search?q=samsung+204t+panel+type&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a

http://www.google.com/search?q=benq+g2400w+panel+type&btnG=Search&hl=en&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&hs=wtH&sa=2

Oftentimes, info like this isn't obvious, but if you dig a bit deeper and become adept with google, it can take all of ten seconds to get your answer

Kalrog · December 11, 2008

What about using a TV as a monitor? TV manufacturers usually give different information and specs than monitor makers. You could get an LCD TV, but there are also other types of flat TVs that might work as well. Plasma, DLP, ... ?

jforbes · December 14, 2008

You could do that. How it works will of course depend on the display itself. You'd want to calibrate it, one way or the other. Plasmas aren't ideal for computer displays as they tend to get some burn in, and you're going to get burn in even if they're very resistant to it if you're using it as primary computer display.

A plus is that they're large, but you're not gaining anything but size with them. My 24" computer display is a higher resolution than 1080p, as is my 19" CRT (2048x1536, I edited photos on it at 1920x1440 usually)

If you're going to spend a grand, you may as well get a nice 30" display intended for PCs. The resolution is very nice to have, and they're large enough that it's not like you're looking at miniscule things on your PC - if you're running Vista, you can crank the DPI settings up a bit and it'll look very, very nice if things are too small for you after that.

As far as the panels that TVs use, I've no idea. I'm pretty sure the TV we have at home is a PVA/MVA - it's extraordinarily laggy when it comes to games, but it's also more vivid than it needs to be, it makes everything look cartoony. While I'm sure it could be calibrated, it's nowhere near where it needs to be with some adjustment out of the box.

For a bit over $1k, you can get a downright fantastic 30" display that may as well be a TV, size wise, but you'll have a far higher resolution to work with, which is a huge boon in photoshop.

Kalrog · December 18, 2008

Anyone have any experience with Lenovo monitors? Specifically the ThinkVision L2440p Wide (model number 4420HB2). I was able to do some checking on it and it seems to be a 24" S-IPS for under $400, but I'm not 100% on my sources.

Ric Grupe · December 18, 2008

NEC MultiSync LCD2690WUXi

Get the one linked above that comes with the color correction hardware and software that is very easy to use.

I can't imagine a better monitor for photo editing.

Easy on the eyes too!

Newsy · December 18, 2008

Kalrog wrote:

Anyone have any experience with Lenovo monitors? Specifically the ThinkVision L2440p Wide (model number 4420HB2). I was able to do some checking on it and it seems to be a 24" S-IPS for under $400, but I'm not 100% on my sources.

The Lenovo L2440p is inexpensive because it uses a TN panel.

TN panels are "usable" if you are budget limited but I would caution you that this is NOT the ideal monitor for editing photographs and it would be a crying shame to use it if you've already made an investment of several hundred $$$ in software like Adobe CS3/CS4.

If you need more information on the panel technologies used in LCD TFT monitors, search on my prior posts in this forum.

Btw... I found the information on panel type using these two web sites:

http://www.flatpanels.dk/panels.php

http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/panelsearch.htm
- there is a lot of good info on monitors on this site!

Kalrog · December 18, 2008

Newsy wrote:

The Lenovo L2440p is inexpensive because it uses a TN panel.

I checked the flatpanels link and it says S-PVA panel for that monitor. I thought it said S-IPS the last time I checked, but I specifically ignored it if it said TN panel.

And it does say 178*/178* viewing angle - aren't most TN in the 160 to 170 range? Where are you seeing that specific monitor as a TN? I'm not trying to be difficult, but I thought I did some actual research on this one.

HarlanBear · December 18, 2008

Kalrog wrote:

I checked the flatpanels link and it says S-PVA panel for that monitor. I thought it said S-IPS the last time I checked, but I specifically ignored it if it said TN panel.

And it does say 178*/178* viewing angle - aren't most TN in the 160 to 170 range? Where are you seeing that specific monitor as a TN? I'm not trying to be difficult, but I thought I did some actual research on this one.

As Newsy says:

http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/panelsearch.htm

http://www.flatpanels.dk/panels.php

Put in the model number and both sites show it as TN.

Newsy · December 19, 2008

Kalrog wrote:

I checked the flatpanels link and it says S-PVA panel for that monitor. I thought it said S-IPS the last time I checked, but I specifically ignored it if it said TN panel.

And it does say 178*/178* viewing angle - aren't most TN in the 160 to 170 range? Where are you seeing that specific monitor as a TN? I'm not trying to be difficult, but I thought I did some actual research on this one.

That is real interesting. I normally check both sites but did not this time. My apologies for not doing so.

I found one reseller site where it lists the viewing angles and they do indeed state them as 178/178 which is a strong indicator for either an IPS or a PVA panel. Of course, Lenovo has no accessible detailed specifications on their web site at this time so I can't confirm it.

However, the retail pricing is so low, lower than their L220x which is a high resolution S-PVA panel, that it leads me to believe it is a TN panel simply because retail is in the ballpark with all the other TN paneled 24" monitors.

Then there is this CNET review:
http://reviews.cnet.com/lcd-monitors/lenovo-thinkvision-l2440p/4505-3174_7-33343693.html

and...

http://computershopper.com/lcd-monitors/reviews/lenovo-thinkvision-l2440p

Kinda iffy at this time.

Check out these Prad.de reviews...

http://www.prad.de/en/monitore/reviews.html

Maybe consider the HP LP2275w ??

f-rider · January 24, 2009

Looking at my HP LP2275w as I write this. VERY happy with this monitor. Went through the HP calibration and have not needed to do anything else so far. Very happy with my purchase (from NewEgg.com).

Newsy · January 24, 2009

f-rider wrote:

Looking at my HP LP2275w as I write this. VERY happy with this monitor. Went through the HP calibration and have not needed to do anything else so far. Very happy with my purchase (from NewEgg.com).

Great!

I'm curious to know how many of the black scales can you see on this page?
http://lcdresource.com/mambo/tools/blacktest.htm

This page gives me trouble but black level tests on other sites are perfect with my calibrated PVA panel.

Others:

http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/black.php

http://www.drycreekphoto.com/Learn/Calibration/monitor_black.htm

.

Monitor

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