Originally Posted by savannahga But you'll have to print your own prints? Doesn't zenfolio have the paypal option & they print? I personally think without Paypal you loose sales. People trust PayPal over a random site where they have to submit their CC info. My 2 cents.

for what its worth, this people doesn't trust Paypal at all and will never use it for any site. But, I do think that options are worthwhile, because, you can't please everyone.

Originally Posted by savannahga But you'll have to print your own prints? Doesn't zenfolio have the paypal option & they print? I personally think without Paypal you loose sales. People trust PayPal over a random site where they have to submit their CC info. My 2 cents.

We pay out millions to our pros Still, we plan on adding paypal as an option - so you don't have to even think about losing a sale.

Originally Posted by cmason for what its worth, this people doesn't trust Paypal at all and will never use it for any site. But, I do think that options are worthwhile, because, you can't please everyone.

Well I choose the Paypal option EVERY time when I purchase online. I'd rather have my CC
info on 1 site (Paypal) than have my CC info on many many different sites. More chance
for fraud to take place.

Originally Posted by savannahga Well I choose the Paypal option EVERY time when I purchase online. I'd rather have my CC info on 1 site (Paypal) than have my CC info on many many different sites. More chance for fraud to take place.

You do realize that there's about a thousand times more of a chance that CC information gets taken in a restaurant, right? PCI compliance and the fact that you're the only person that sees your CC info keeps electronic transactions really safe. The more hands your CC pass through, the more chance for theft. Just some info from the other side as a business owner that's researched how CC info gets stolen.

Originally Posted by SamirD You do realize that there's about a thousand times more of a chance that CC information gets taken in a restaurant, right? PCI compliance and the fact that you're the only person that sees your CC info keeps electronic transactions really safe. The more hands your CC pass through, the more chance for theft. Just some info from the other side as a business owner that's researched how CC info gets stolen.

+1 ... as the IT team for many small and mid-sized businesses, we have to keep them PCI compliant. Seeing how everything electronically is securely handled, I personally feel more safe dealing online with credit cards than handing my card to a cashier or waiter.

Originally Posted by nipprdog I'ved sold almost five thousand prints in 2 1/2 years on SM. I'ved sold three T-shirts. Do the math.

I've been with smugmug for a few years and recently upgraded to pro. I am so frustrated with trying to customize my site that I have gotten a trial at zenfolio. So far I find it so much more user friendly for non-geeks like myself. In particular, being able to create other pages besides the home page. I don't care how many times support tries to tell me it's so easy, it isn't for me. I don't want to deal with code and css and what-not. I have already created a homepage at zen that is simple and elegant.
No offence, nipprdog, but your website is a good example of what people end up with, not looking professional when they try to customize their site here at smugmug.
I hope smugmug hears people and will work on making the customization more user friendly. I too really like the support and community here.

Originally Posted by thedonjon I've been with smugmug for a few years and recently upgraded to pro. I am so frustrated with trying to customize my site that I have gotten a trial at zenfolio. So far I find it so much more user friendly for non-geeks like myself. In particular, being able to create other pages besides the home page. I don't care how many times support tries to tell me it's so easy, it isn't for me. I don't want to deal with code and css and what-not. I have already created a homepage at zen that is simple and elegant. No offence, nipprdog, but your website is a good example of what people end up with, not looking professional when they try to customize their site here at smugmug. I hope smugmug hears people and will work on making the customization more user friendly. I too really like the support and community here.

Thanks for the great feedback, we really appreciate it.

If you would like to stay, just email me, attn ANDY at the help desk and I'll get a customizer to work on your site for you. We don't want you to go!

Originally Posted by Andy Thanks for the great feedback, we really appreciate it. If you would like to stay, just email me, attn ANDY at the help desk and I'll get a customizer to work on your site for you. We don't want you to go!

Andy, the years go by... and you (your avvy) just get... well, splashier!

Best wishes for 2011!

Neil

Smug mug has it. I can't speak for zen folio, but I can't ever complain here. Especially with the community involvement, facebook, promoting, storage, customization, page rank on site, dual labs, etc etc The t-shirts are rare. We even talked about a mouse pad the other day and was like should I keep it on the sales. "oh why not" the next day I sold one, but that was 1 in 10 years. T-shirts, nothing as of yet.

Paypal, google checkout would be nice to have an addition to, just so those who have it will use it vs a creditcard.

Originally Posted by savannahga Well I choose the Paypal option EVERY time when I purchase online. I'd rather have my CC info on 1 site (Paypal) than have my CC info on many many different sites. More chance for fraud to take place.

You're actually better protected with a creditcard than paypal. Paypal usually links to a creditcard or personal bank account.

Credit cards have built in protection, plus you earn rewards on most. This month we used a chase card to order a bunch of equipment, 400.00 cashback so far since the card was in use 11/2010. It all depends on what your doing, but I totally say paypal is not as protected as you think since it's still attached somewhere to you.

It's very interesting to read through this thread and see the comparisons with Zenfolio. I set up my SM account about 18 months back and have considered the service excellent. The only problem has been the lack of UK based print partners. At first this didn't bother me too much and there seemed to be many hints from Smugmug that changes were coming in this area.

Well now I've got clients expecting this service. I can either choose to handle all their print requests myself, go through Smugmug and deal with the hassles and extra shipping or switch to Zenfolio. After a trial of Zenfolio, it's a no brainer to me. I've got a site up and running in very little time and am set up to take print orders from anywhere in the world with local shipping and currencies.

Another plus point is the design and customisation doesn't require extensive CCS and html modifications. I've got a background in web development to technically this is no problem but it is refreshing to have it all point and click.

Also, they provide a contact page with form that gets sent to e-mail. Last I checked, Smugmug didn't do this and you had to embed external services or link to your own web hosting.

It's a shame as I do like the Smugmug service, and I'm having to pay a bit more for Zenfolio but I think I'm at the point where I have no choice.

Originally Posted by Andy What customizing do you have available on that other site (any other site?) that's as extensive as here? We'll be removing the SmugMug logo from the shopping cart (and replacing it with your own) as part of a future release, it's on this short list of things to do and it's been requested by lots of folks.

The above is from May 20th, 2009. Next month the above post will be 2 years old. What does SM call a "short list"? I for one have grey hair already. Zen boasts they can "replace Zenfolio brand with your own logo on visitor pages". To me, this is very important. When a customer goes to check out on SM there is STILL a SM logo and login link right there to distract them. This is unacceptable. How many times does someone go to order prints and say.."what's this?" and get distracted? The attention span of people (especially here in central Florida), is very short. Do not imply a change that will never be implemented. And if it's "in the works" still, then in this case a specific time table is warranted.

BTW, SM is down again. But there is a new "we're down" redirect. Hey, that's progress, right?

The ability to put your own logo and brand in the cart and on your orders was introduced by us a year or so ago:

http://www.smugmug.com/help/pro-photography-branding

The SmugMug information is still there for the convenience of you and your customers. Since we (SmugMug) provide all of the customer support for the order process, removing that information would make it difficult for your customers to ask questions that they have about the order process or the order itself. This is a part of our service to you and your customers.

Originally Posted by Jerard The above is from May 20th, 2009. Next month the above post will be 2 years old. What does SM call a "short list"? I for one have grey hair already. Zen boasts they can "replace Zenfolio brand with your own logo on visitor pages". To me, this is very important. When a customer goes to check out on SM there is STILL a SM logo and login link right there to distract them. This is unacceptable. How many times does someone go to order prints and say.."what's this?" and get distracted? The attention span of people (especially here in central Florida), is very short. Do not imply a change that will never be implemented. And if it's "in the works" still, then in this case a specific time table is warranted.

[QUOTE=Ann McRae;1596605]The ability to put your own logo and brand in the cart and on your orders was introduced by us a year or so ago:

That is true, but what I said is:

"When a customer goes to check out on SM there is STILL a SM logo and login link right there to distract them."

I know what branding is, I made a logo and put it into place on my site. What I'm saying that you ignored or didn't understand is that there is still a Smugmug logo that can be seen by a visitor on the checkout page. In addition to this there is a "Login" link and a "Smugmug" site link that has no relationship with MY client ordering prints. If I'm paying for a Pro account I don't want my clients to EVER see the name Smugmug anywhere with the only exception to that being in the address bar if I'm not using my own doman name. It's tme for SM to catch up to the competition or loose the true professional.

If the coders can't or won't solve this the right way, then I would suggest that a workaround would be to darken the background while in the secured checkout site. But if there is a reason this can't be done, I want the truth as to why not.

Well I have sign up for smugmug a year ago and I was promised that "soon" there will be a UK lab. Year later still no change.
Editing websites -pain in the back. I do some webdedign but i do not want to waste my time on forums looking for an answer. The editor on zenfolio is really for anyone - anyone can make their website look beautiful.
Of course you could buy a customisation for smugmu - but it will cost you only another $350 minimum.
The support on zenfolio - they are as fast and great as smugmug. Saying that - I have asked once smumug Custommer service to remove the smugmug footer from my website - the answer was no way because of the branding. But I pay for it! It's my website and smug mug is not paying me to put their logo on My website. They say that the footer will increase my traffic - but I do not like that footer!
Soooooooo. I had to move to Zenfolio because of :
1. Europe photo lab
2. Easy to customise
3. Beautiful look
4. Amazing app for iPhone
5. Great Custommer service
6. I will not hope for a change for years - like with Smugmug promisses

My zen website www.photom.me

Originally Posted by tomnovy Well I have sign up for smugmug a year ago and I was promised that "soon" there will be a UK lab. Year later still no change. Editing websites -pain in the back. I do some webdedign but i do not want to waste my time on forums looking for an answer. The editor on zenfolio is really for anyone - anyone can make their website look beautiful. Of course you could buy a customisation for smugmu - but it will cost you only another $350 minimum. The support on zenfolio - they are as fast and great as smugmug. Saying that - I have asked once smumug Custommer service to remove the smugmug footer from my website - the answer was no way because of the branding. But I pay for it! It's my website and smug mug is not paying me to put their logo on My website. They say that the footer will increase my traffic - but I do not like that footer! Soooooooo. I had to move to Zenfolio because of : 1. Europe photo lab 2. Easy to customise 3. Beautiful look 4. Amazing app for iPhone 5. Great Custommer service 6. I will not hope for a change for years - like with Smugmug promisses My zen website www.photom.me

I've been on smugmug for about 5 years. Haven't looked at the competition since then. But your post actually got me pretty curious. The reality for me is that switching services is just not worth the difficulty to me. But I signed up for a zenfolio trial anyway, just to take a peek. I hope smugmug has a zenfolio account and is taking notes! I'm 100% sure zenfolio has a smugmug account (or just reads this forum) and has been taking their notes for years... I just couldn't believe seeing the solution to just about every common smugmug complaint right there. I like smugmug. I don't want to leave. But seriously, smugmug has some very serious catching up to do. I've barely touched zenfolio, but what I like the most so far is that their "control panel" really gives control. Your whole site right there in one place with a great interface. Smugmug looks great, but a lot of the tools are extremely clunky. I prefer smugmug galleries, but zenfolio is nowhere near as ugly as I remember from a long time ago!

Anyway, I think you get my point... speaking to smugmug. Smugmug has made great improvements over the last 5 years and I don't have too many complaints. But I'll admit that if I was starting from scratch and using free trials at both sites, I'd probably be signing up with zenfolio. But I have no doubt that if I'm patient enough, smugmug will make the necessary improvements to change my mind. If.

Dave

Dave I am glad you have tried Zenfolio. Yes the control panel at zenfolio is much user friendly. There are tools to automatically move your work from smugmug to zenfolio - but I am not here to sell you the product - zenfolio does not pay me heheh. But I am now with zenfolio for nearly month and I love it! Customers and viewers love it.
You said that smugmug will make changes - I am sceptic about that - I was waiting a year for change - without success.
Btw. Zen is bringing soon support to video and blogging facility to their pages. Great features to look forward - ps. Hopefully I will not have to wait a year for that ;)

Originally Posted by tomnovy Zen is bringing soon support to video and blogging facility to their pages. Great features to look forward - ps. Hopefully I will not have to wait a year for that ;)

Interesting. Video is what keep me from seriously looking at Zen right now.

I found this interesting thread on their support site which is the same as this thread from the Zen point-of-view. Great reading if you want both sides of the story:
http://forums.zenfolio.com/forums/t/6828.aspx

I have read this before I moved to Zenfolio and I think it is a great article.
Smugmug is great - but for me Zenfolio has won for now... we will see what the future will bring...