Zenfolio vs Smugmug- which is better?

jinspin

I have been longtime smuggy but a colleague introduced me to zenfolio and wow.
i did a quick review and it has some great features for a professional photography biz like

promotional coupons!
snazzy web 2.0 interface including slideshow
12% commission after tax/shipping is subtracted vs smug's 15% of base
only $100 for year for premium plan

it will be a pain to move all my pics to zen so can people tell me why I should stay with smug or go to zen? I am tempted and this is a hard decision. I thought smug was best but now not so sure esp for maturing photog biz.

the new recent features smug hasn't been that helpful to me as i don't use bay photo as it costs more for prints and I don't use easy customizer except for removing the footer since I already customized my smug already. I still don't like that smug logo is shown on the shoppiing cart.

Andy

jinspin wrote:

I don't use easy customizer except for removing the footer since I already customized my smug already. I still don't like that smug logo is shown on the shoppiing cart.

What customizing do you have available on that other site (any other site?) that's as extensive as here?

We'll be removing the SmugMug logo from the shopping cart (and replacing it with your own) as part of a future release, it's on this short list of things to do and it's been requested by lots of folks.

MWWeston

I went from basic Smug to Pro Zen to Pro Smug
and I recently tried a trial account of Zen again to check out their new features. All of this was a pain, but I did learn that I like somethings better in each, but I like SmugMug better.

For me the advantage of Zenfolio is the lower cost (pro account and 12% v 15%), coupons and the file organization (folders v Smug categories). One feature that I did like was the ability to give a folder/gallery a unique URL name v a generic gallery######.

However, I think my photos really do look better at SmugMug. I truly appreciate the ability to customize most aspects of SmugMug including the ability to match my blog so that it looks like it is part of the site. I also like the gallery format options better at SmugMug. The stretchy mode fills the screen better than any option I tried on other sites.

So for me, I would like to see a lower fee, lower %fee on sales, coupons and a simple folder system to organize galleries, the other aspects of SmugMug will keep me here and SmugMug seems like they are really working hard to keep their offering the best in the industry. I bet we will see more features that will improve the Pro accounts in the future months.

I continue to look at other services, but for me SmugMug still wins and they keep making improvements to make certain they remain the best. Plus the service here is amazing.

www.markwestonphotography.com

Malte

Andy wrote:

...that other site...

They're called Zenfolio. Say it with me brother, -Zenfolio. Woosah.

Seriously though, what will keep the zenfolios at bay won't be not saying their name, it'll be features like EZC. What a thing of beauty. It'll be general usability, which still needs a fair bit of work. It'll be video, and keeping it a top notch implementation. It'll be your industry leading customer support.

Malte

mbellot

MWWeston wrote:

For me the advantage of Zenfolio is the lower cost (pro account and 12% v 15%), coupons and the file organization (folders v Smug categories). One feature that I did like was the ability to give a folder/gallery a unique URL name v a generic gallery######.

You can do that (custom URL) on SM as well, its just not "sticky" (its a redirector type thing), they are called "vanity URLs" and I use them quite a bit.

A little java script is all it takes.


Andy: Any chance the cart will be trackable by Google Analytics (for goal purposes)? Or is it just going to be visual changes?

jinspin

Andy wrote:

What customizing do you have available on that other site (any other site?) that's as extensive as here?

We'll be removing the SmugMug logo from the shopping cart (and replacing it with your own) as part of a future release, it's on this short list of things to do and it's been requested by lots of folks.

Thank you Andy and rest for input. I def like customization and great customer support on here. I looked at a few zen sites and they all look same and a bland/plain for my taste and not as nice as smug. I will also send my colleague this info as this will help her decide too.
That is great about removing logo from the cart. Anxiously waiting for the insane smugpro features (coupons and packages!) that will help my biz

Chris O

I've tried Zenfolio three times now, and never got to liking it. The community and support behind SmugMug is worth the price alone.

flyingpoint

Smugmug vs Zenfolio
I'll second (or fourth) the customer service comment. It's really the differentiator.

And the fact that I'm coming up on my 1,000th print sold without a single --- not one --- complaint regarding print quality is another HUGE factor. And that was before BayPhoto...

Clootie

I'm a current Zenfolio user and checking out Smugmug with a view of moving over because of a number of reasons. Have posted in another thread most of the next part, but...

What I like about Zenfolio is:

1. The admin interface
2. Soon to have UK/European Print Lab.
3. Soon to have custom features (Themes & CSS)

What I dislike about Zenfolio:

1. Lack of UK/European lab, although it is said to be coming (1-2 months) its been a longtime waiting!
2. Lack of customization and no time frame of when it will arrive or for that matter what features.


What I like (so far) about Smugmug:

1. Very active forum and staff with lots of members helping each other (much more than ZF)
2. Ability to fully customize the site.
3. Much more features available to members.

What I dislike about Smugmug

1. Admin system could be much better, although its okay.
2. Lack of UK/European Print Lab (Big issue)


Out of all my main issue is lack of UK/European print lab at Smugmug, and for that matter nothing even on the forecast of features to come.

Still playing with Smugmug for another 6 days after that I guess will need to decide whether or not to wait for ZF UK Print Lab & Customization features and see how good they are or move to Smugmug and lose UK Print Lab but gain customization.....

I think both are providing a great service and if I has to say one thing to both that would be... Think about clients outside over the pond...

timeflight

No one service is perfect, I could use a mixture of the two. After using both, these are my observations:

Support - SmugMug win, no contest
Community - SmugMug win, it can be a bit quiet on the Zenfolio forums
Name - SmugMug fail (Zenfolio sounds professional - SmugMug sounds... smug!)
Branding - SmugMug fail, far too many little smug smilie faces - including those pins on maps - it looks awful and very web 1.0
Payouts - SmugMug fail - we need PayPal which Zenfolio has always had
Admin - SmugMug fail - Zenfolio a lot simpler
Display - SmugMug win for large thumbnails and full browser width galleries (apart from users landing page)
Themes - SmugMug fail - Zenfolio has fewer but more elegant themes. SmugMug need to lose some of their cheesy themes
Customization - SmugMug win for allowing you to do anything - I'm not sure if hat's good or not though!
International shipping - SmugMug win until Zenfolio UK printing comes online soon
Video - SmugMug win, no video on Zenfolio
Geotaging - SmugMug win for trying, even though it's a messy implementation
Pricing - SmugMug fail, Zenfolio 33% cheaper annually and lower per order fees
Custom permalinks - SmugMug fail - Zenfolio allow this for example: http://user.zenfolio.com/portraits/alice - Google loves it!

As I said, a mixture of both would be perfect. I'll add more if I think of any!

jinspin

timeflight wrote:

No one service is perfect, I could use a mixture of the two. After using both, these are my observations:

Support - SmugMug win, no contest
Community - SmugMug win, it can be a bit quiet on the Zenfolio forums
Name - SmugMug fail (Zenfolio sounds professional - SmugMug sounds... smug!)
Branding - SmugMug fail, far too many little smug smilie faces - including those pins on maps - it looks awful and very web 1.0
Payouts - SmugMug fail - we need PayPal which Zenfolio has always had
Admin - SmugMug fail - Zenfolio a lot simpler
Display - SmugMug win for large thumbnails and full browser width galleries (apart from users landing page)
Themes - SmugMug fail - Zenfolio has fewer but more elegant themes. SmugMug need to lose some of their cheesy themes
Customization - SmugMug win for allowing you to do anything - I'm not sure if hat's good or not though!
International shipping - SmugMug win until Zenfolio UK printing comes online soon
Video - SmugMug win, no video on Zenfolio
Geotaging - SmugMug win for trying, even though it's a messy implementation
Pricing - SmugMug fail, Zenfolio 33% cheaper annually and lower per order fees
Custom permalinks - SmugMug fail - Zenfolio allow this for example: http://user.zenfolio.com/portraits/alice - Google loves it!

As I said, a mixture of both would be perfect. I'll add more if I think of any!

This is great comparison review. right to the points.

Scott Buel

jinspin wrote:

This is great comparison review. right to the points.

One more point that I would consider switching for is that they offer framing. There is no ordering and then once your print arrives having to physically go somewhere else to have it framed or have to order the framing supplies seperately to do it yourself. I have had a lot of people say they wanted to order, but it was going to be too much of a hassle not being able to have their print arrive framed and ready to hang.

3n-out

Plus ZF does not have Andy! That alone is worth every penny let me tell ya!

Andy

3n-out wrote:

Plus ZF does not have Andy! That alone is worth every penny let me tell ya!

Aw shucks! I'm going to take this as a complement for our whole team of Support Heroes. I'm the lucky guy that gets to lead them. Thank you so much for making our day.

atb

I am currently looking at Zenfolio for another site - one that is much more sales oriented. I live in Canada and don't want my customers to pay in USD or have to pay shipping from the US. Zenfolio give you the ability to "self process" the orders. That way I can charge CDN and process at a local lab as the majority of my business in local.

Does a SM pro account allow me to do this?

Thanks

termina3

atb wrote:

Does a SM pro account allow me to do this?

Kind of. (FYI, what you're looking to do is "self fulfill" orders.) If you set up a google shopping cart (search for that phrase… there are scores of threads), then absolutely. But the built-in SM shopping cart will not let you self-fulfill.

atb

termina3 wrote:

Kind of. (FYI, what you're looking to do is "self fulfill" orders.) If you set up a google shopping cart (search for that phrase… there are scores of threads), then absolutely. But the built-in SM shopping cart will not let you self-fulfill.

Thanks! I'll check that out. Andrew

muk

Products

Andy wrote:

What customizing do you have available on that other site (any other site?) that's as extensive as here?

We'll be removing the SmugMug logo from the shopping cart (and replacing it with your own) as part of a future release, it's on this short list of things to do and it's been requested by lots of folks.

I've been researching the sites and I like that you can order t-shirts in black on Zenfolio and also get halter shirts for the ladies! When will Smugmug get different colors? Or will they?

Andy

muk wrote:

I've been researching the sites and I like that you can order t-shirts in black on Zenfolio and also get halter shirts for the ladies! When will Smugmug get different colors? Or will they?

I'll discuss it with our lab, thanks.

nipprdog

muk wrote:

I've been researching the sites and I like that you can order t-shirts in black on Zenfolio and also get halter shirts for the ladies! When will Smugmug get different colors? Or will they?

I'ved sold almost five thousand prints in 2 1/2 years on SM.

I'ved sold three T-shirts.

Do the math.

Baggy

Hiya

jinspin wrote:

I have been longtime smuggy but a colleague introduced me to zenfolio and wow.
i did a quick review and it has some great features for a professional photography biz like.

I have been on smugmug for a long time and like much of what it offers but it is not without frustration...

One of the key differences for me is the usability, I have just been trialing zenfolio and have set up, changed and rechanged the file structure very very easily. Also I can go deeper with the layers of galleries.

I need to change the way that my categories and galleries are grouped in smugmug and I have given up, it would take hours to get what I want. A simple visual GUI would make it so much easier.

To be honest smugmug has fallen way behind on file handling compared with zenfolio and even flickr.

I am still with smugug because of the support and the effort of moving away. But I am thinking about selling digital downloads and unless I am missing something zenfolio has the edge there as well :-(

Mark

David Manning

Andy wrote:

... as part of a future release, it's on this short list of things to do and it's been requested by lots of folks.

It's beginning to make me vomit a little when I see the words "future release" and "short list" from Andy. Short list would imply near future, not 12-18 months down the road. Also, "active development" is becoming a joke. SmugMug has a lot going for them (e.g., user interface, Bay Photo, cart and order fulfillment, and debt free business model), but the unfulfilled promises are compromising Smug's credibility. I applaud Smug's efforts to reach pros, but it's obvious it's not what they do best. I'm still hanging on to what seems to be empty promises. Come on guys!

Nimai

I think SmugMug has addressed the custom perma-links point. I've been loving the new, clean URLs!

Nimai

David Manning wrote:

It's beginning to make me vomit a little when I see the words "future release" and "short list" from Andy. Short list would imply near future, not 12-18 months down the road. Also, "active development" is becoming a joke. SmugMug has a lot going for them (e.g., user interface, Bay Photo, cart and order fulfillment, and debt free business model), but the unfulfilled promises are compromising Smug's credibility. I applaud Smug's efforts to reach pros, but it's obvious it's not what they do best. I'm still hanging on to what seems to be empty promises. Come on guys!

Andy is always up-beat and positive. Since SmugMug has a policy of not announcing dates, there's not much more to say about features other than, "No" or "It's on the list."
When Andy says that a feature is being worked on right now, or is being tested internally, that's great info to have! We keep asking, so Andy keeps answering. That's why you see the same thing over and over!

I've been a software developer for 20 years. From Andy's comments I think I can tell what's going on. Keep up the good work!

David Manning

Nimai wrote:

Andy is always up-beat and positive. Since SmugMug has a policy of not announcing dates, there's not much more to say about features other than, "No" or "It's on the list."
When Andy says that a feature is being worked on right now, or is being tested internally, that's great info to have! We keep asking, so Andy keeps answering. That's why you see the same thing over and over!

I've been a software developer for 20 years. From Andy's comments I think I can tell what's going on. Keep up the good work!

Andy is normally up-beat and positive, and I really appreciate what they have going on. I know they're working hard to respond to everyone's wish lists, but the promises of coupons and packages have been going on for so long while lesser "upgrades" have been made. SmugMug built a great reputation for their outstanding customer service and innovation for the photographic hobbyist. With the introduction to SmugMug Pro, I was interested. With the partnership with Bay Photo, I jumped. The opportunity to have print ordering and fulfillment in one place with a trusted lab helped pull me away from Miller's, and I love Miller's. As a professional wedding photographer, I really value things like mounted prints and coupons. Until coming to SM, I only offered mounted, textured, and sprayed prints larger than 5x7. As a result, I've been able to drop prices some, but at the expense of a lesser quality product. I was using LabPrints before the switch, and one of the nice things they offer is the ability to proof album spreads where the client can comment on each page or spread. I'm not trying to beat up on Andy or SM, I just hate hearing the same things over and over again.

David

jandrewnelson

SMUG is #1 and...
...well, there is no #2.

The customer support that I have received will keep me at SMUGMUG. With SMUGMUG I not only get superb help, guidance and advice on my photography, but also OUTSTANDING service and help with my website. So both of the areas that are important to me are covered.

I'm a cheerleader for SMUGMUG until the day I die.

Jerry
www.Meesoon.Smugmug.com

Wachel

Older thread but...

I was looking at Zen for the simple fact that rearranging my thousands of photos here at Smug would be just horrendously horrendous! I moved here from flickr for obvious reasons and I love Smug. But...flickr's file handling is amazingly easy compared to Smug.

Virtual galleries and better file handling need to implemented soon! That is my only gripe.

catspaw

Wachel wrote:

Older thread but...

I was looking at Zen for the simple fact that rearranging my thousands of photos here at Smug would be just horrendously horrendous! I moved here from flickr for obvious reasons and I love Smug. But...flickr's file handling is amazingly easy compared to Smug.

Virtual galleries and better file handling need to implemented soon! That is my only gripe.

Are you on a Mac or a PC? If PC, I'd consider StarExplorer (look for the link in Nik's sig) for file handling. ONLY time I wished I weren't on a Mac.... (or that he developed it for the Mac! ha, easier).

Wachel

catspaw wrote:

Are you on a Mac or a PC? If PC, I'd consider StarExplorer (look for the link in Nik's sig) for file handling. ONLY time I wished I weren't on a Mac.... (or that he developed it for the Mac! ha, easier).

I'm a Mac guy. I am sure that Smug will rise to the challenge but it seems like they are way behind some of the others in this area. Time will tell.

wildviper

Andy wrote:

What customizing do you have available on that other site (any other site?) that's as extensive as here?

We'll be removing the SmugMug logo from the shopping cart (and replacing it with your own) as part of a future release, it's on this short list of things to do and it's been requested by lots of folks.

So is this done now? I am not a Pro level, but am interested in knowing if Smugmug is falling so far behind that catching up will always be in "future" releases??

I will check out Zenfolio since I have to make some major changes to my site.

SamirD

Anyone looked at Printroom? I've skimmed through their features and while it costs a bit more that SM, it does have features that are being requested of SM. It doesn't have video or I'd have to take a closer took.