Zenfolio vs Smugmug- which is better?

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  • CarolynnCarolynn Registered Users Posts: 2 Beginner grinner
    edited October 14, 2009
    spiffing up a page
    I've only used smugmug and find it very useful, I really like it. I need to personalize it and that is not easy, it requires learning how!!! who's got time? and to hire someone it costs a H of a lot. A friend told me zenfolio goes by the KISS method, I haven't tried it yet, even if they do all look similar my clients won't necessarily notice because they are looking for their personal gallery anyway. I prefer to stick with smugmug as I have so much invested in it. Are there any easier solutions? to be able to choose from some premade photographer sites with some pizzazz would truly suit me well. Having the smugmug stamp on my stuff is OK for now.
  • TamerlinTamerlin Registered Users Posts: 15 Big grins
    edited October 15, 2009
    The main things that I find lacking in Smug are image quality related. My film scans are 16-bit images with between 60-80 megapixels (I don't have all that good a scanner yet), but since Smug doesn't support custom fulfillment or high-quality images, I lose a LOT through Smug.
  • SamirDSamirD Registered Users Posts: 3,474 Major grins
    edited October 15, 2009
    Tamerlin wrote:
    ...16-bit images with between 60-80 megapixels...
    Wow, what resolution are you scanning these at? What is the resulting image size in pixels?
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  • MalteMalte Registered Users Posts: 1,181 Major grins
    edited October 15, 2009
    Tamerlin wrote:
    ...My film scans are 16-bit images with between 60-80 megapixels...

    Are these large format negs?

    Malte
  • wildviperwildviper Registered Users Posts: 560 Major grins
    edited October 15, 2009
    I am trying out Zenfolio and so far I like it. It does have its own issues.

    Some are:
    • Images are not displayed "Large" in Slideshow mode.
    • Not too many options in how a gallery is displayed. Smugmug has the Slideshow, blog type and the others.
    • You can't put your logo(just yet at least)
    By the way, I was able to transfer all my Smugmug pictures (3 gigs worth) and move them over to Zenfolio whilst keeping the galleries intact.

    You can use a program called Migratr - http://www.callingshotgun.net/migratr/migratr-1-06-zenfolio-fix-and-general-cleanup/

    Just so that you know, the support at Zenfolio was pretty awesome. Migratr wasn't working right to upload to them. I emailed them and they worked out a solution for me the same day. They even contacted the developer and had him fix the issue. He did it the next day.

    If you end up using the program, consider donating him(Alex) something. He certainly saved me hours and hours of work.

    It was a piece of cake, just took long because of 3 gigs to download form Smugmug and then upload to Zenfolio.
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    WildViper
    From Nikon D70s > Nikon D300s & D700
    Nikon 50/1.8, Tamron 28-75/2.8 1st gen, Nikkor 12-24/4, Nikkor 70-200/2.8 ED VR, SB600, SB900, SB-26 and Gitzo 2 Series Carbon Fiber with Kirk Ballhead
  • TamerlinTamerlin Registered Users Posts: 15 Big grins
    edited October 23, 2009
    Malte wrote:
    Are these large format negs?

    Malte

    Yes, they are... I'm only scanning at 2400 dpi right now; my scanner doesn't let me do any better than that, but that also limits the file sizes to between five and six hundred megabytes, which is a lot easier to work with than a 2 GB image :)

    I just wish that I could put up 100 MB files on Smug... and also leave them with 16 bit color... hopefully they'll get there. If Smug starts offering custom fulfillment then I'd be able to take advantage of Smug's shopping cart system and all, but still get the image quality for my LF images. Sigh... hopefully someday :)
  • TamerlinTamerlin Registered Users Posts: 15 Big grins
    edited October 23, 2009
    SamirD wrote:
    Wow, what resolution are you scanning these at? What is the resulting image size in pixels?

    In the range of 11,000x8500 pixels in 16-bit color.
  • SamirDSamirD Registered Users Posts: 3,474 Major grins
    edited October 27, 2009
    Tamerlin wrote:
    In the range of 11,000x8500 pixels in 16-bit color.
    Makes sense being large format. Does the quality of the scan capture the original quality? Or does it lack something?
    Pictures and Videos of the Huntsville Car Scene: www.huntsvillecarscene.com
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  • TamerlinTamerlin Registered Users Posts: 15 Big grins
    edited October 31, 2009
    SamirD wrote:
    Makes sense being large format. Does the quality of the scan capture the original quality? Or does it lack something?

    My scanner is just a prosumer flat bed, so it's not getting as much detail and sharpness as the originals. It's really only enough for a good print up to 24-30; I'd have to get the film scanned professionally, using scanners I can't afford yet, in order to reach the film's limit. :(
  • PetrisPetris Registered Users Posts: 17 Big grins
    edited October 31, 2009
    SM+
    -Customer service(++++++++++++++)
    -Customization possibilities

    SM-
    -Planned for US only x 1000000000
    (labs, currencies+ payment option, scandinavian alphabet not supported..and so on..)
    -many features are promised for loooooong time ago
    -service breaks

    I wish to stay...let see..
  • JohnnycbJohnnycb Registered Users Posts: 16 Big grins
    edited November 1, 2009
    Ahhh Hmmm Zennnn -vs- SmuuuugMug
    SM+
    -Relatively quick loading clap.gif
    -Customization possibilities but requires a Masters in CSS ne_nau.gif

    SM-
    -Coming Soon :D
    -Coming Soon Sometime mwink.gif
    -Coming Soon Sometime Year eek7.gif
    -Coming Soon As We Get Around To It headscratch.gif
    -Coming Sooner If We Had More Programming Help :cry
    -We don't allow you to collect taxes but are talking to our Tax Guy deal.gif

    I wish to stay...but lets see....maybe my ability to sale and stay in
    good graces with my states taxing authority takes me to Ahhh Zennn but keeps my family and friends stuff here....lets see. rolleyes1.gif
  • AndyAndy Registered Users Posts: 50,016 Major grins
    edited November 1, 2009
    Johnnycb wrote:
    -Customization possibilities but requires a Masters in CSS ne_nau.gif

    Or, use Easy Customizer (nobody else has this AFAIK)... or for more advanced stuff, post questions on Dgrin, get amazing help, and copy, paste away. You don't need a masters in CSS & HTML you just need to be able to use EZC or our Forum deal.gif
  • LichtenHansenLichtenHansen Registered Users Posts: 55 Big grins
    edited November 9, 2009
    Search visits (percent) from Alexa. Smugmug vs Zenfolio
    Alexa has some interesting statistics:

    705145258_HyxwY-O.jpg

    Traffic from search engines to Zenfolio is pretty low, but is slowly getting better.
    Traffic from search engines to Smugmug is better, but is slowly getting worse.

    Check it out at Alexa.com:
    Zenfolio stats on Alexa
    Smugmug stats on Alexa

    The real question is: Can you trust statistics?
    deal.gif
  • cmasoncmason Registered Users Posts: 2,506 Major grins
    edited November 9, 2009
    Personally, I think Alexa is great at creating press releases for Alexa, but little else. That data is created by users downloading the Alexa toolbar specifically to send data to Alexa. So you are looking at a limited set of users who use the toolbar, and then connect to either zenfolio or smugmug. Seems pretty narrow to me, or would require many 10s of millions of users to be anywhere near accurate.

    On the other hand Quantcast does offer a much more granular approach, and does not rely on users and toolbars, but looks at ISP data. However, as they likely should, smugmug blocks that Quantcast data.
  • SamirDSamirD Registered Users Posts: 3,474 Major grins
    edited November 9, 2009
    cmason wrote:
    On the other hand Quantcast does offer a much more granular approach, and does not rely on users and toolbars, but looks at ISP data.
    All the major ad networks (professionals) look at Quantcast. Alexa is a like a 'consumer' version of traffic rankings. I didn't know this until I went to some IAB webinars on advertising. thumb.gif
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  • BaldyBaldy Registered Users, Super Moderators Posts: 2,853 moderator
    edited November 9, 2009
    SamirD wrote:
    All the major ad networks (professionals) look at Quantcast. Alexa is a like a 'consumer' version of traffic rankings. I didn't know this until I went to some IAB webinars on advertising. thumb.gif
    Yeah, Quantcast ftw.

    We have a lot of respect for Zenfolio (and Shutterfly, Pictage, Flickr, Vimeo, etc...) who keep us on our toes.

    The Alexa chart seems to show an increase of 9% for us and 10% for them over 3 months. I don't know how believable it was that we tripled in a week, so I think smoothing it over a longer period of time makes sense.

    Our traffic is so much higher than their's that 9% of a very large base is a very large increase compared to 10% of a small base. But the installed base of the Alexa toolbar, and the amount it's obfuscated by not counting custom domains, which is so large a part of our business, makes me not very confident that we're seeing something useful here.
  • SqueezerSqueezer Registered Users Posts: 46 Big grins
    edited November 17, 2009
    The BIG Plus for those not US based is that Zenfolio has Foreign currency support, something that Smugmug is severely dragging its feet with and no roadmap of it being provided in the near future.

    You can work around with cludgy CSS paypal modifications but its a PITA and requires self fullfillment.

    Its a feature that may sway me to jump ship
  • termina3termina3 Registered Users Posts: 158 Major grins
    edited November 18, 2009
    Squeezer wrote:
    no roadmap of it being provided in the near future.

    Smug doesn't give us road maps.
    Its a feature that may sway me to jump ship

    If the lack of foreign currency support is hurting your business, you should. Don't stick around because they're nice; being nice doesn't earn you money.
    Please don't mistake my blunt, pointed posts as my being "angry," "short," or "rude."

    I'm generally happy, tall, and fuzzy on the inside.www.NickensPhotography.com
  • StevenSzaboStevenSzabo Registered Users Posts: 93 Big grins
    edited November 21, 2009
    not sure if andy is watching this thread still or not...I'm just curious if maybe there's a way to partially integrate a paypal cart for those of us that are dealing in other currencies. I saw the thread on adding one in...but it would be nice if I could have something included and still have the digital downloads self fulfill but allow me to make the prints myself....

    Alright, so maybe that's two things in one...lol.

    and if the fees were lowered to be more in line with zen all the better, I'm sorry, but for my $150 a year I wouldn't have expected to pay 15% of everything I sell as well...
  • AndyAndy Registered Users Posts: 50,016 Major grins
    edited November 21, 2009
    not sure if andy is watching this thread still or not...I'm just curious if maybe there's a way to partially integrate a paypal cart for those of us that are dealing in other currencies. I saw the thread on adding one in...but it would be nice if I could have something included and still have the digital downloads self fulfill but allow me to make the prints myself....

    Alright, so maybe that's two things in one...lol.

    and if the fees were lowered to be more in line with zen all the better, I'm sorry, but for my $150 a year I wouldn't have expected to pay 15% of everything I sell as well...
    Lots of folks have added paypal or google checkout- it's rather easy. Just post in the customizing forum and let the helpers help.

    thumb.gif
  • StevenSzaboStevenSzabo Registered Users Posts: 93 Big grins
    edited November 21, 2009
    Andy wrote:
    Lots of folks have added paypal or google checkout- it's rather easy. Just post in the customizing forum and let the helpers help.

    thumb.gif

    yes, but then we lose the self fulfilling(sp?) on digital downloads, or am I wrong? I'm just trying to come up with a good way to merge the two...sell my prints through paypal, but still offer the digital download option. But the idea that a customer might want prints and a download would mean entering their credit card info twice and people are nervous enough about entering their visa number online once as it is. Am I making any sense?

    PS. How do I set it so that I can do the prints myself instead of going out to one of the two labs?
  • ColoradoSkierColoradoSkier Registered Users Posts: 267 Major grins
    edited November 24, 2009
    I am late to the party, and haven't read the last 6 pages, but I did just make the jump from Zenfolio to Smugmug. I was ready to do it a year ago, but I had just paid them, and it didn't make sense for me financially. I left Zenfolio because of the overwhelming arrogance they have exhibited in developing their product roadmap and the apparent lack of willingness to listen to their customers. Digital downloads, which are such a no-brainer these days, took them forever to implement. I don't see them being any more on the cutting edge than anyone else, and for me personally, the way they interact with the customer base was unacceptable.

    On the other hand, Smugmug has such a vibrant user community, as well as an enthusiastic support staff, that I feel right at home. Doesn't mean I won't be critical (2+ years to develop coupons, which ZF already has? Come on.), but just as with other vendor communities I am involved in (ExactTarget), I hope that my criticisms will be taken constructively and not just the rantings of an unhappy customer. Of course, that puts the onus on me to construct my criticisms in an intelligent way.

    I also like the fact that they have started the Smugs. I attended the first one here in Denver last week, and I think that this is going to be a great opportunity for me to learn more about working the business side of photography (if we can have speakers from the landscape/ stock side of the world sometimes, that would be great Jeff).

    Simply put, I do business with companies that value me as a customer, along with my input. I didn't get that feeling from ZF, but I have so far with SM. Your mileage may vary, but this is where I plan to stay.
    Chester Bullock
    Lakewood, Colorado, USA
    My Pictures | My blog
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  • SamirDSamirD Registered Users Posts: 3,474 Major grins
    edited November 24, 2009
    Simply put, I do business with companies that value me as a customer, along with my input. I didn't get that feeling from ZF, but I have so far with SM. Your mileage may vary, but this is where I plan to stay.
    Good to hear a balanced point of view from someone who's been on both sides. thumb.gif
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  • woellerdwoellerd Registered Users Posts: 193 Major grins
    edited November 26, 2009
    I have also recently switched from Zen to Smug, and here are some of my thoughts. I switched for several reasons, with customization being high on the list. I am not a css guy, so I used the easy customization, and in a few cases I asked in the support forums and got what I needed. As far as promises, promises, it's reaqlly no better over there. Page customization has been promised for a long time and you always get the canned "we're working on it", or "coming soon", so that kinda ends up as a wash. One big thing for me on Zen was that it took forever for pages to load. I had several potential customers say they gave up waiting for the thumbs or larger images to show up on screen. Finally, traffic from search engines can't be compared. I see tons more hits in a month on analytics than I did in a year on Zen. Are we perfect here at Smug? No, but I'm much more satisfied.
    I should now insert a disclaimer: These are only my personal thoughts and I'm sure some will diagree. Had to put in my 2 cents though. :D
    Dave Woeller

    My Galleries: DWPhotoworks

    My Blog Page: DWPhotoworksblog

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  • bristolxyzbristolxyz Registered Users Posts: 7 Beginner grinner
    edited March 23, 2010
    Sm
    After reading this whole thread, I'm pretty sure I've made my mind up t join SM. Even without any Telephone support (who does that anymore..lol), they do a good job with me so far.
    I am an IT guy and have had my share of crappy support. SM support and company people seem to be doing a good job. I'm with SM for now.

    Thanks
  • NeilLNeilL Registered Users Posts: 4,201 Major grins
    edited April 2, 2010
    I think we need both SM & Zen. Competition benefits everyone, and choice means more people are satisfied, so both services remain healthy.

    I am still a beginner photographer, and my focus is on getting to a level of quality and attractiveness in my photos where I can at some point realistically offer them for sale. My focus is not on selling right now.

    I had a pro account with SM, and I now have a premium account with Zen. There have been order of magnitude changes at Zen in recent months, especially in website customisation and search engine visibility. I find the organisation system at Zen more straightforward and easily usable than at SM, and Zen's new customisation tools are an unbelievable breeze to use and allow the creation of a look which is truly personal and unique, and with a premium account no branding of the host service at all. The quality of image display on Zen is unsurpassed, and now with slideshow on homepage, with sound, full page embedded slideshow. Automatically scaled image size to the max of viewer screen size.

    On the other hand, I think SM has better sales statistics, and for pros that is pretty much the bottom line, of course, but it could be just a fact of history that up to now more successful pros have been with SM than Zen. However SM's assertive and upbeat personality must help sales. Customer service at both SM & Zen are on a par in my experience. Both communities are very active, supportive and friendly. Zen is perhaps a little more even-tempered, there is less hype and attitude. Help documentation is better at SM.

    I am indebted to both SM and Zen for helping me to grow in my photography. I love the association I have with both. I have an open mind about the future. In the end, a decision to use one or the other service is a very personal one and is not necessarily a judgement of one over the other. I'm thankful that both exist!

    Neil
    "Snow. Ice. Slow!" "Half-winter. Half-moon. Half-asleep!"

    http://www.behance.net/brosepix
  • MWWestonMWWeston Registered Users Posts: 45 Big grins
    edited July 1, 2010
    Follow-up to my post from last year.
    Earlier this year I completed a new trial on different sites. SM is still the best choice for me. SM added a lot of improvements and features in the year after my last post in this thread. The ability to customize so many factors is still better than the other sites I tried. There are some things that I still like better about Zen, like their lower annual fee, lower % fee on sales that is tiered by product type and their folder system. However, for my site SM still wins. I like the way my site looks on SM. I like the continued improvements to the SM product. I love this forum and all of the amazing help/service from SM and other users. As a consumer, I will continue to see what is available to me, but for now SM still wins for my site. http://www.markwweston.com/
  • MalteMalte Registered Users Posts: 1,181 Major grins
    edited September 2, 2010
    Well I let my Zenfolio subscription lapse today so I guess I'm all in on SmugMug now! :D It only took me five years to decide... eek7.gif

    iloveyou.gif

    Malte
  • savannahgasavannahga Registered Users Posts: 225 Major grins
    edited September 2, 2010
    Andy wrote: »
    Lots of folks have added paypal or google checkout- it's rather easy. Just post in the customizing forum and let the helpers help.

    thumb.gif

    But you'll have to print your own prints?

    Doesn't zenfolio have the paypal option &
    they print?

    I personally think without Paypal you
    loose sales. People trust PayPal over a random
    site where they have to submit their CC info.

    My 2 cents.
  • cmasoncmason Registered Users Posts: 2,506 Major grins
    edited September 2, 2010
    savannahga wrote: »
    But you'll have to print your own prints?

    Doesn't zenfolio have the paypal option &
    they print?

    I personally think without Paypal you
    loose sales. People trust PayPal over a random
    site where they have to submit their CC info.

    My 2 cents.

    for what its worth, this people doesn't trust Paypal at all and will never use it for any site. But, I do think that options are worthwhile, because, you can't please everyone.
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