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Disqualifications
Greensquared
Registered Users Posts: 2,115 Major grins
This time there were only two disqualifications, and they were due to excessive size. Please read the rules and make sure that your image is large enough to do it full justice, but also stays within the limits.
Several entries did NOT have EXIF embedded or appended. I will be stricter with this in the future, so be forewarned. Also, please don't just "type" info in unless there is absolutely no way to embed or append it, and even then, it might serve you well to explain why.
The stakes here are pretty big and I want to make sure everyone is playing fair. As a reminder, please DO NOT ask others to sign up to Dgrin just to vote for your entry. Yes, we want you to tell your friends and family about this awesome forum and have them join to be a contributing part of it, but not just to hike up your numbers. No one to my knowledge has done that, but I just want to make sure, with all of the new people here, that that is clear.
Now, if you haven't done it...GO VOTE.
Several entries did NOT have EXIF embedded or appended. I will be stricter with this in the future, so be forewarned. Also, please don't just "type" info in unless there is absolutely no way to embed or append it, and even then, it might serve you well to explain why.
The stakes here are pretty big and I want to make sure everyone is playing fair. As a reminder, please DO NOT ask others to sign up to Dgrin just to vote for your entry. Yes, we want you to tell your friends and family about this awesome forum and have them join to be a contributing part of it, but not just to hike up your numbers. No one to my knowledge has done that, but I just want to make sure, with all of the new people here, that that is clear.
Now, if you haven't done it...GO VOTE.
Emily
Psalm 62:5-6
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Comments
Thanks for the continuing notes in relation to this. It seems in a lot of competitions people miss aspects of the rules, but your repeated gentle notes to everyone will hopefully have it all sorted out.
In relation to the exif issue, I'm surprised you give any lee-way with it. It's been part of this forum for well over 12 months now, so it shouldn't be new to anyone, except new DGRINners.
Rules are rules (and not too difficult in these challenges), so I think anything that doesn't comply completely should be eliminated, particularly because the stakes are so enticing.
If people can't link to or embed exif, all they have to do is ask (and there are already plenty of lniks with explanation available, including two at the top of each challenge entry thread).
Just my 0.02c.
Regards,
Peter
moderator of: The Flea Market [ guidelines ]
Rules are rules and if people become finalist and have broken the rules then this isn't "fair" to those that have taken the time to learn the rules and comply with them.
And as far as the embedded exif, I had no clue when I first started posting and was directed to the "Embedding a Photo how to" link. I followed the "how to" and was able to make it work do to that "how to".
If one was to go back and check, a total of 19 photo's either had "posted" or "no" exif and not embedded or attached: 2 of them being finalist.
Emily, you and the other mods and judges do a great job here. But if such a flagrant misuse of the rules is allowed, how will that promote more entries in the future. To enforce one rule "size", which only 2 had that issue, and to over look a rule that was not followed 19 out of 83 post is unfair to the remainder of the contestants that took the time to post per the rules.
And when this is stated clearly in the first post of the entry thread
"This thread, is the one into which you post your entry. Remember, 1 entry per person, and the photo must be fresh, taken during this contest period. Entries must have exif embedded or appended. Click here and here for help. Photos entered without proper exif showing a clear shot date will be disqualified.": and then not to disqualify them is wrong IMHO.
Just my 2 cents worth.
In fact, while we're at it, I'm changing the rules regarding composites. I will now require that you embed EXIF for ALL images used within your entry. Do your work up front please. Don't make me go chasing you after the fact.
As far as voting is concerned, don't solicit votes, don't campaign for votes and in future rounds, please acknowledge the proper etiquette of not voting for yourself.
Just so you have a clear view, I have put in approximately 12 hours to this since Monday morning. It's not a paying job. I do it for the love of it. Please don't make me hate it by making more work for us, whining and complaining, or trying to fudge on the rules.
I'm not sure but I think that Andy may have even gotten involved in that one.
Now back to exif info -- I don't know if it's an IE issue, some PC-related issue, or ignorance on my part, but the link on the exif page for my photos is not correct/complete. It just lists my site's URL and nothing that identifies the picture itself: http://lrichters.smugmug.com/photos/newexif.mg?ImageID=345931618&ImageKey=4xC6d. When I tested it, it behaved exactly like it was supposed to: it took me to my home page. To retrieve the link to my exif, I have to bring up the exif page's properties and retrieve the URL from there. At one time this was working correctly.
http://lrichters.smugmug.com
Hey Emily,
Just to double-check. The current rules state that exif must be embedded or appended. I've gone the lazy way throughout LPS and the DSS and simply copied and pasted the link under the photo entry. Is this not the preferred format currently? If so, we should probably highlight this change to all the 'older' members
Also, those voting rules/suggestions should probably be added to the all things official sticky.
Thanks again for all of your work on these boards. It is greatly appreciated!
E
My site | Non-MHD Landscapes |Google+ | Twitter | Facebook | Smugmug photos
How bizarre! I see what you mean about the link it tells you to C&P for the info. It shows the same on mine (using FF): http://blackcatphoto.smugmug.com/photos/newexif.mg?ImageID=342809091&ImageKey=eax9F
I never noticed because I simply click on the "Photo Info" button then right-click on the "Photo Information" link in the pop-up and select "Copy Link Location." Then I paste that into a new window. This works, but it's certainly strange that it says to copy the homepage addy to link to the info.
Perhaps it's because it's a hidden gallery? At least, mine is. Is yours, Linda? That could be it.
My stuff is in a hidden gallery but it's never been an issue before.
http://lrichters.smugmug.com
Copying annd pasting the link to exif is appending in my books. Embedding it in either your image or in text like "EXIF" is also acceptable, and in fact preferred as it is much cleaner. I'm not a technical guru here. As a SmugMug user, it is extemely simple to embed exif, but I don't know all of the how to's for other methods. Linda and Kerry, I'll pass your issues along and see if we can get a response, ok?
The very first post in the Official stuff sticky is the Challenge Rules thread. This information is all contained within there. And this thread is serving as an announcement to the "Oldies". If they chose not to read and follow a thread entitled "Disqualifications", what more am I supposed to do?
http://lrichters.smugmug.com/photos/newexif.mg?ImageID=345931618&ImageKey=4xC6d
We'll fix the bug.
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I created a spreadsheet a while ago to help generate the links for this (and other uses). I paste in the lightbox link, it does a bunch of text manipulation, and comes out with various links formatted for forum use (medium + click for lightbox, large + click for exif). I then copy and paste them in for this (or displaying photos of my dogs on a greyhound forum....) Would anyone be interested in a copy of this to save them some work? I'd be willing to post it herre, but don't know if I can attach a .xls file.
http://jziegler.smugmug.com
Hi Emily,
Thanks for everything you are doing here to make this happen - It's very much appreciated!
I'll admit that I proudly voted for myself this round - I've always felt that my vote is mine to cast as I please - kind of a personal liberty thing. After pouring heart & soul and effort & emotion into the creative process I think it is only natural that an individual may want to support their own work. In some cases, the photographer may even feel that their own entry is the best. I support the no campaigning and no solicitation rules, but I do feel a contestant ought to be able to vote for for their own photo if they choose to...and not feel guilty or stigmatized.
Since, as you have said, the stakes are high - please clarify if voting for one's self in future rounds is an offense that will disqualify one's entry. And, if it is, please clearly incorporate it into the rules so that there is no doubt.
That's how I feel - I respect and will abide by your decision either way.
Again, a BIG Thank YOU for all you are doing here.
-paul
umm i voted for my own too....
i agree on all other points like having people vote for your entry....
i saw some people campaining in other threads but they asked for people to go vote in general...i guess this is a grey area of etiquette...there needs to be a way to put the word out .....under 200 votes compared to the 10,000 memebrs etc...gotta find a way
I agree, Aaron. Personally, I would like to have a general announcement made whenever a poll opens.
I never thought of anyone ever being unfair during this process and getting others to join just to vote for them.:jawdrop I think everyone has worked hard and that is just not called for. Please tell me no one is doing that!
just some other members thought on that....
http://dgrin.com/showthread.php?t=83660&highlight=ethical
But Emily is the boss-lady here and whatever her decision is, I will support her 100%.
http://lrichters.smugmug.com
I really don't think anyone is "whining and complaining".
I believe what we were trying to state is that in your own post on each entry thread it states very clearly how the exif data is to be placed. You even go so far as to post the help files to encourage the correct use of the data.
It is just a little discouraging when one reads the rules and painstakingly applies them, just to have them over looked when they are called out in the opening thread of the challenge.
Don't get me wrong, I appreciate your time and your ability to help with this on going process. Heck without you, we may not even have the challenges.
My only point was if your going to make a point of the rule in the opening thread, then it should at least be followed! Ultimately it is a $1700 prize on the line. This won't stop me from entering either, but who may it stop if they see that some rules apply and others don't. I mean cmon, really 19 out of 83 failed this rule, what does that say to the other 64 that entered? Some lesson have to be learned the hard way, and if being disqualified is the recourse then that should apply.
I was actually shocked at some of the entrants that failed to embed or append that data, and just type it in. If you look close, it is some of the regulars to the challenges.
I am not saying anyone did anything wrong on purpose or that my submission should have been in place of one of the 2 that are finalist. I failed to make it because it wasn't what the judges wanted, that I can live with. But watching others get votes when they broke the rules and were allowed to "get by" this time, just feels wrong.
Again, I am very grateful that you have taken the time and energy to push this process forward. If I could vote to have you paid in some way, I would. You definitely deserve it. Don't give up because people ask that things be applied as stated.
is there anything "we" can do to help?
for instance, could you ask someone to go through all the exif's and verifiy them and send you a report?
do you need to provide feedback for everyshot? i would think if someone wants feedback they could ask in a feedback fourm of sorts...???
i know i dont want any...im fine with not getting selected on the simple fact you didnt like it....so take people like me and add them up and there is possiably alot of typing/thinking/time not needed to be done...
i do not want to see you get burned out.
With regards to the current discussion, these are my personal opinions:
1.) One vote = one vote. Doesn't matter if you vote for your Self or someone else.
2.) No EXIF properly included = disqualified. Period. If you can include a photo in a post, you can include an EXIF link. It really isn't rocket science and there are, indeed, plenty of threads throughout DGrin that have "embedding" help and as a last resort the question could easily be posted here in this forum. But for the sake of true "newbies" perhaps another moderator could check the entry thread a day or two prior to closing and let those who've not done the EXIF properly that they will be disqualified if they don't fix it before the round closes? Fair warning and all that?
3.) Spamming for votes = bad form. I work in the IT industry and could certainly get boatloads of folks to sign up here and vote for me but I'd never do that because this is an "internal" type of competition. At least that's how I've always seen it. More like a "jury of peers" instead of the usual, garden-variety popularity contest. I did read the February thread about this matter and can't help but wonder if all those thousands of Dgrin members who never post are simply the result of "friends helping friends" and not the normal percentage of forum "lurkers"...?
If Smugmug really wants these challenges to be a "popularity contest", then perhaps the voting should take place on the home page sans the Dgrin registration requirement? Maybe track IP addresses to help quell true spamming, but otherwise, going back to "professional judges" might be the fairest overall setup.
YMMV....
"Where beauty moves and wit delights and signs of kindness bind me; there, oh there, whe'er I go I leave my heart behind me." (Thomas Ford, 1607)
I took an opportunity, for one DGrin challenge I entered, to post my pics at advrider.com(Baldy's other site - where many inmates there are lurkers here) for some feedback. I did not ask for votes or encourage anyone to go vote in the challenge. However, I do know that some friends wanted to vote for me and I could not stop what they did.
I chose to enlist their critique, rather than here, because I was new here and did not know many folks. With the influx of new accounts(especially now with the draw of the Mega Challenges) we may see more of those situations.
It'd be a hard call.
Amazingly true. And everyone would do well to acknowledge that.
So many threads. So much reading. Reading is hard, folks!
Shoot, enter, follow the rules, see what happens, applaud the winner, console the losers and leave the judges alone
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If I see an entry that doesn't meet the requirements in the rules, I usually go out of my way to inform the photographer via PM.
These contests are nothing without others to compete with.
For 2.4 and 2.5 I copied the (relevant part of the) exif from the image transfer viewer utility and pasted it into my post with the entry. (btw - having it visible, rather than linked, to my eyes - means one thing less to go wrong)
Is this method acceptable or not?
Whilst my 2.4 entry was hosted with SM, 2.5 wasn't ... after the 3rd (failed) attempt at u/l it, I gave up and used a different host - pbucket ... and using the c/paste route for the exif seemed the easiest way forward from there, as I have no idea whether pb offer an 'exif service'
I feel this needs clarification as not everyone uses SM (yet
Many thanks for your time and efforts ...
pp
Flickr
I couldn't agree more, that these contest are nothing without others to compete with.
And I am just as glad you would take that time to inform a contestant that they hadn't followed the rules
However as a contestant, it is my responsibility to make sure my entry meets the rules and the judges requirements; as is the same for every other contestant. If other contestants can't follow / won't follow / or plain disregard the rules, how does that become my responsibility to inform them. Seems to me that is why we have judges, to ensure every entry meets the rules and is in accordance with the theme to declare a victor or outcome accordingly. I don't know about anyone else but that pretty much defines Judge and or judging http://www.thefreedictionary.com/judging
I personally think that Emily is doing a fantastic job and that her efforts are above and beyond what should be required. (especially of her time)
And in the future I will inform contestants of a missed rule or non compliance, it is the moral thing to do. As I would want to be judged along side everyones entry for their entry. But rules are put in place to be followed not ignored or overlooked. I just didn't see these until all this was brought up with the first post, and it got me wondering "just how many is "several". I came up with 18 out of 83. that's over 22% or 1/5 of the entries.
That is acceptable to me, just not preferred if you have another option, but it certainly won't DQ you.
IT then slipped my mind till someone kindly reminded me of my mistake in a pm. I went to Greensquared and confessed. I was one of the 19, I will not be again. :cry
At that time it was OK to just type it in.
Back then, there was some trust, and the fact that there were no or small prizes, things were more relaxed.
Now with the large prizes and distrust that goes with that, I have to agree that the rules are going to need to be to the letter.
The suggestion of showing the EXIF along with the photo is a very good idea.
It shows that the shot is qualified to be entered, plus, as many of us have said that these challenges are also here to teach/learn,
others will be able to see the exposures of shots that they may want to do in the future.
As for voting for your own shot, I've never voted for one of my shots, nor have I ever asked anyone to vote for one of my shots.
If I have to ask someone to vote for it because they know me instead of because it was the best shot, I wouldn't feel that good about winning.
I think if you're in the final poll/vote, you don't get to vote. Let the others decide who wins.
These are just my opinions.
Basking in the shadows of yesterday's triumphs'.
Charlie