Okay, so ALL of this is obviously subject to change, but here is the list of features we have planned for FaceBook. We currently have 2 FaceBook applications planned: 1 for people just looking to share photos on FaceBook, and 1 for our Pros who are looking to establish a business presence on FaceBook.
Standard Application Feature Set:
Import photos from SmuMug into FaceBook Photo Albums
(once imported users can tag, comment, etc..). This will physically move a copy of your photos over to FB.
Export photos from FaceBook into SmuMug. This can be photos you've been tagged in, photos of your friends, or any albums you've created on FB.
Embed Your SmugMug photos into your profile (with a Note).
ECards - Send any of your SmuMug photos to other FaceBook users as an ECard.
Application Tab Support - Allows other FaceBook users to view selected SmugMug galleries inside of FaceBook. This is available off of your profile.
PhotoRank - PhotoRank allows you to submit a SmugMug photo for review by other FaceBook users. Everyone can then vote on and comment on the photos. There will then be a leaderboard where you can see the best photos for each month. (This is optional, you will need to submit a photo(s))
News Item Updates- We will automatically update your news feed for you (John just added 4 new photos, etc..)
Professional Application Feature Set:
Unbranded and Completely Configurable
You can add Full contact information for yourself/business, as well as a photo/logo.
You can add tabs to it. Each tabs can either be textual content, or a gallery, or a combination of the two.
There will be a contact tab, where users can contact you via email, that will also display your contact info. (Fully configurable)
Mailing List Support - Will let users sign up for a newsletter (configurable and optional, and with admin to send notifications)
Optionally you can embed a photo or advertisement on your profile.
Optionally you can allow your photos to be sent as ecards, or to optionally be embedded on other people's profiles.
You can attach this application to a user, or to a page on FaceBook.
Please let me know if you think I am missing something, or if you need some clarification on a feature. Obviously your feedback is incredibly important to us, and at this stage in development it really does help to know what everyone wants...
Thanks,
Scott.
Slideshow? It would be great to run a slideshow on facebook with photos from a particular gallery. Even better would be the ability to just reuse the existing slideshow app, but run it through facebook.
Slideshow? It would be great to run a slideshow on facebook with photos from a particular gallery. Even better would be the ability to just reuse the existing slideshow app, but run it through facebook.
Thanks for the input encosion, especially the difficulty with navigating through galleries. I will need to revisit this to make sure we come up with something that works well for users that have that many.
Yeah, it's sorely needed... Just tried playing with http://animoto.com/ today and was pleasantly surprised to find that it can fairly effortlessly grab content from my SmugMug account! However, I encountered the exact same navigation problem I mentioned - no categories or sub-categories, just a seemingly random pile of galleries... Good luck! I hope you can come up with an elegant solution!
Embed Your SmugMug photos into your profile (with a Note).
Application Tab Support - Allows other FaceBook users to view selected SmugMug galleries inside of FaceBook. This is available off of your profile.
I'm interested in features that let me avoid handing over my bare naked behind to Facebook with regards to usage rights to my photos, and as far as I can tell the above two do just that. Can you tell me more about how they will work?
I would also like to be able to embed videos and slideshows.
I'll pile on this request. I'm not huge into Facebook but a lot of people I know are, and are less likely to click through to my Smugmug site from my profile than they are to look at pics within Facebook. I'm loathe to put the pictures both places, so having a portal from one to the other would be ideal.
SmugFoto?
Ditto again! I am presently using SmugFoto app in FB which seems to work pretty well...shows captions and EXIF. Any feedback on using SmugFoto with Smugmug?
Acadiana Al
Smugmug: Bayou Oaks Studio
Blog: Journey to the Light
"Serendipity...the faculty of making happy, unexpected discoveries by accident." .... Horace Walpole, 1754 (perhaps that 'lucky shot' wasn't really luck at all!)
Error, error, error... Following that link gave me an error, adding the app gave me an error, and trying to navigate to the app? Error. Is this the official app? How did you come across it? Seems sort of official with the way it interacts with Smug.
In any case, I'll try back again later. Glad to see progress, if this is the official app.
Error, error, error... Following that link gave me an error, adding the app gave me an error, and trying to navigate to the app? Error. Is this the official app? How did you come across it? Seems sort of official with the way it interacts with Smug.
In any case, I'll try back again later. Glad to see progress, if this is the official app.
Is this the errormessage you found confusing?
"Error while loading page from SmugMug [beta]There are still a few kinks Facebook and the makers of SmugMug [beta] are trying to iron out. We appreciate your patience as we try to fix these issues. Your problem has been logged - if it persists, please come back in a few days. Thanks!"
It is the official app but it is in BETA. The developer posted a link on Facebook and it worked when I checked it out.
Check out this Dgrin thread for more info. As for Facebook, just search apps for "smugfoto" and install it in your profile. Seems to work well.
Acadiana Al
Smugmug: Bayou Oaks Studio
Blog: Journey to the Light
"Serendipity...the faculty of making happy, unexpected discoveries by accident." .... Horace Walpole, 1754 (perhaps that 'lucky shot' wasn't really luck at all!)
"Error while loading page from SmugMug [beta]There are still a few kinks Facebook and the makers of SmugMug [beta] are trying to iron out. We appreciate your patience as we try to fix these issues. Your problem has been logged - if it persists, please come back in a few days. Thanks!"
It is the official app but it is in BETA. The developer posted a link on Facebook and it worked when I checked it out.
Malte
I may have seen that one, but mostly I see a lot of much nastier ones. For example right now I get:
880820093checkingUserID-->880820093CurrSess--> Not An Array Fatal error: Class 'SocialApp' not found in /home/scott/scott-1-smugmug/services/facebookapp/config.php on line 129
You're a Super User! we have Fatal error: Call to a member function Execute() on a non-object in /home/scott/scott-1-smugmug/services/facebookapp/sharegallery.php on line 20
(this is when trying to "share this gallery")
Makes me feel all warm and fuzzy. Where's scotticus - this is his, right? Is there some official channel I can use to report bugs?
My favorite error messages are the ones that say (this is when trying to "share this gallery")
Makes me feel all warm and fuzzy. Where's scotticus - this is his, right? Is there some official channel I can use to report bugs?
Not at the moment, as a new version is coming out. Consider that to be on STOP BETA. Sorry!
Any idea on when this will be available? Still getting Errors on the beta (code 12 if that means anything).
Same here... and I am also very interested in any news on the possibility of a new version!
As for DavidTO's comment on Facebook's TOS - I can totally understand the hesitation of a professional photographer when it comes to posting their photos on FB given that they surrender all rights to their own works, but for the casual point and shooter who just wants to share pics of their friends with their friends, I don't see it being a big deal. (I fall into the latter category obviously)
Anyone seen this warning about Facebook's TOS? Any thoughts on it?
you've gotta be kidding ... that means someone can steal the photo and use at he/she pleases
Johnny J. Chin ~ J. Chin Photography Facebook ♦ Flickr ♦ SmugMug
SmugMug referral coupon code: ix3uDyfBU6xXs
(use this for a discount off your SmugMug subscription)
Anyone seen this warning about Facebook's TOS? Any thoughts on it?
By using smugfoto, you are not "posting" your photos to Facebook. The data stay on SmugMug's servers. Hence, it seems to me that Facebook has no right to such photos and it can go stick its grubby paws where the sun don't shine.
"[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Photography is often finding something cool and taking a picture of it."[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] -- Ken Rockwell[/FONT]
Just reread section on "User Content Posted on the Site" Facebook Terms of Service which ends with "...Facebook does not assert any ownership over your User Content; rather, as between us and you, subject to the rights granted to us in these Terms, you retain full ownership of all of your User Content and any intellectual property rights or other proprietary rights associated with your User Content." In fact, Smugmug has similar verbiage in its Terms of Use, Item 13. . So, I'm interested in seeing where this thread leads. What is the primary concern?
Acadiana Al
Smugmug: Bayou Oaks Studio
Blog: Journey to the Light
"Serendipity...the faculty of making happy, unexpected discoveries by accident." .... Horace Walpole, 1754 (perhaps that 'lucky shot' wasn't really luck at all!)
I'm the person who alerted Cris Mitchell (Photographer's Handbook) about the FaceBook concern when he started his page over there, and he forwarded the information to Carolyn Wright, who you may know as Photo Attorney. You can read her blog post on the FaceBook rights grab here.
Cris then asked Carolyn if using an RSS feed or API hack circumvented the problem and she replied that it did not - FaceBook would still have the right to use your content. You can read that post here.
I'm the person who alerted Cris Mitchell (Photographer's Handbook) about the FaceBook concern when he started his page over there, and he forwarded the information to Carolyn Wright, who you may know as Photo Attorney. You can read her blog post on the FaceBook rights grab here.
Cris then asked Carolyn if using an RSS feed or API hack circumvented the problem and she replied that it did not - FaceBook would still have the right to use your content. You can read that post here.
Thanks, I read Cris's post describing Carolyn's response.
It seems Ms. Wright is assuming that using an RSS feed/ API to display photos on Facebook is the same thing as "posting" photos on Facebook. I am curious as to whether Ms. Wright can cite any legal precedent or other authority for this proposition. Unless the definition of "posting" has already been resolved through well-established case law or some sort of statute, I believe it would be, at the very least, an open question to be decided in court.
My own view is that a photo is not "posted" on Facebook if it has not been uploaded to Facebook's servers. In the case of RSS feeds or API's, Facebook is just showing you content that has been posted elsewhere.
Think about it: Even if Facebook decides it wants to use one of your photos that you displayed via Smugfoto, how is it going to get the photo? It would have to download the photo from Smugmug and copy it to the Facebook servers, since you never put it there yourself. I think a court would frown on such actions... but hey, what do I know?
"[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Photography is often finding something cool and taking a picture of it."[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] -- Ken Rockwell[/FONT]
Just reread section on "User Content Posted on the Site" Facebook Terms of Service which ends with "...Facebook does not assert any ownership over your User Content; rather, as between us and you, subject to the rights granted to us in these Terms, you retain full ownership of all of your User Content and any intellectual property rights or other proprietary rights associated with your User Content." In fact, Smugmug has similar verbiage in its Terms of Use, Item 13. . So, I'm interested in seeing where this thread leads. What is the primary concern?
In fact, Smugmug's terms are quite different than Facebook's.
Smugmug's terms say:
You retain all copyright in any Content you post in any Interactive Areas. However, by posting any Content or otherwise participating in any Interactive Area, you grant SmugMug a perpetual, nonexclusive, royalty-free right to use, publish, distribute, reproduce, perform, adapt and display the Content on the Site, including the right to use the name that is submitted in connection with such Content. You further understand and agree that, in order to help ensure smooth operation of our system, we may keep backup copies of Content indefinitely.
So Smugmug only claims the right to use your photos on Smugmug, while Facebook is claiming the right to do whatever the heck it wants with your photos: publish them in a book, use them in TV ads, sell them, whatever.
"[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Photography is often finding something cool and taking a picture of it."[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] -- Ken Rockwell[/FONT]
Thanks, I read Cris's post describing Carolyn's response.
It seems Ms. Wright is assuming that using an RSS feed/ API to display photos on Facebook is the same thing as "posting" photos on Facebook. I am curious as to whether Ms. Wright can cite any legal precedent or other authority for this proposition. Unless the definition of "posting" has already been resolved through well-established case law or some sort of statute, I believe it would be, at the very least, an open question to be decided in court.
My own view is that a photo is not "posted" on Facebook if it has not been uploaded to Facebook's servers. In the case of RSS feeds or API's, Facebook is just showing you content that has been posted elsewhere.
Think about it: Even if Facebook decides it wants to use one of your photos that you displayed via Smugfoto, how is it going to get the photo? It would have to download the photo from Smugmug and copy it to the Facebook servers, since you never put it there yourself. I think a court would frown on such actions... but hey, what do I know?
Similarly, if Facebook can somehow assert its right to content linked to on its sight (RSS feed, API, so on), how is it that I can link to virtually anything on the web and have a thumbnail of it show up on Facebook. I'd venture to guess that they're not saying anything of the sort...
In fact, Smugmug's terms are quite different than Facebook's.
Smugmug's terms say:
So Smugmug only claims the right to use your photos on Smugmug, while Facebook is claiming the right to do whatever the heck it wants with your photos: publish them in a book, use them in TV ads, sell them, whatever.
Good point. Looks like the correct answer for those of us concerned about that possibility is to drop the FB SmugFoto app and only post low res photos.
Acadiana Al
Smugmug: Bayou Oaks Studio
Blog: Journey to the Light
"Serendipity...the faculty of making happy, unexpected discoveries by accident." .... Horace Walpole, 1754 (perhaps that 'lucky shot' wasn't really luck at all!)
Facebook does NOT claim a general license to use Smugfoto photos!!!
According to the email below that I received from Facebook, Facebook's Developer Terms of Service (http://developers.facebook.com/terms.php) clearly state that Facebook takes "no right of any kind" (other than rights expressly granted in the Developer agreement) in "Facebook Platform Application Content". From the Developer ToS:
Facebook obtains no rights of any kind (other than the rights and licenses expressly granted in this Agreement) in, Facebook Platform Applications you create and in the Facebook Platform Application Content, and all associated Intellectual Property Rights (subject to Facebook's underlying rights in Facebook Platform and Facebook Site)
Those "expressly granted" rights and licenses seem to concern only the ability to use the Application Content for limited purposes, on Facebook only. Again, from the Developer ToS:
"You hereby grant us a worldwide, perpetual, irrevocable, non-exclusive right and license, with the right to sublicense, to: (a) access, reproduce, display, distribute, perform, and store on our servers your Facebook Platform Application and any Facebook Platform Application Content, and to create derivative works of Facebook Platform Application Content, as may be necessary or desirable to make such Facebook Platform Application and Facebook Platform Application Content available to Facebook Users in accordance with the terms of this Agreement and the Facebook Platform Documentation and the Facebook Platform Application Guidelines; and (b) otherwise access, use and analyze any Facebook Platform Application Content for our internal business purposes (e.g., for the purposes of targeting delivery of advertisements or other content to persons who have viewed particular types of Facebook Platform Application Content). You understand and agree that Facebook Platform Application Content that is displayed on the Facebook Site may continue to appear on the Facebook Site, even after you have terminated access to your Facebook Platform Application or terminated this Agreement, as such Facebook Platform Application Content may have been incorporated into user profiles, news feeds or other features, and that such usage may continue indefinitely."
The upshot of all this seems to be that when you use the Smugfoto application to display Smugmug-hosted photos on Facebook, you retain all rights to use your photo and Facebook receives no license to use the photo in any other way.
True, Facebook could argue that their publishing your photos in a book or using them in a magazine advertisement would be "desirable to make such Facebook Platform Application and Facebook Platform Application Content available to Facebook Users", but this claim seems tenuous at best given that (1) such uses would reach a wide audience of Facebook users and non-users alike, and (2) the Developer ToS are markedly different from the ordinary User ToS with respect to Facebook's license to use user content.
So, I think we can say Smugfoto users are NOT granting Facebook any sort of broad license to use their photos. Spread the word!
(Email from Facebook follows below.)
==============================
--- On Thu, 2/5/09, Facebook Support <developers-help+dixixix@facebook.com> wrote:
From: Facebook Support <developers-help+dixixix@facebook.com>
Subject: Re: Question about Facebook copyright policy and Terms of Use
To: [xxxxx]@yahoo.com
Date: Thursday, February 5, 2009, 2:36 AM
Hi [xxxxx],
Thank you for your inquiry. Section 4 of our Developer Terms of Service (http://developers.facebook.com/terms.php) states that "You retain all right, title and interest in and to, and Facebook obtains no rights of any kind (other than the rights and licenses expressly granted in this Agreement) in, Facebook Platform Applications you create and in the Facebook Platform Application Content, and all associated Intellectual Property Rights (subject to Facebook's underlying rights in Facebook Platform and Facebook Site)", where "you" represents an application developer. Please let me know if you have any further questions.
Thanks for contacting Facebook,
Maurice
Platform Developer Operations & Support
Facebook
Original Message to Facebook
From: [xxxxx] ([xxxxx]@yahoo.com)
To: copyright@facebook.com (copyright@facebook.com),privacy@facebook.com (privacy@facebook.com)
Subject: Question about Facebook copyright policy and Terms of Use
To Whom It May Concern:
I would like to know whether Facebook takes the position that using a Facebook Application to view content hosted on servers at a third-party site, counts as "posting" User Content to Facebook under the Facebook Terms of Service.
"When you post User Content to the Site... you automatically grant, and you represent and warrant that you have the right to grant, to the Company an irrevocable, perpetual, non-exclusive, transferable, fully paid, worldwide license (with the right to sublicense) to use, copy, publicly perform, publicly display, reformat, translate, excerpt (in whole or in part) and distribute such User Content for any purpose..."
The Smugfoto application lets Facebook users view photos that a user has posted to the site Smugmug.com. Such photos remain hosted at Smugmug.com and, to the best of my knowledge, are not transfered to Facebook servers at any time. Therefore, it would seem to me that they are not "posted" on Facebook for purposes of the abovementioned term and license.
Could you please clarify Facebook's position on this matter?
Thank you,
[xxxxx]
End Original Message to Facebook
"[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Photography is often finding something cool and taking a picture of it."[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] -- Ken Rockwell[/FONT]
According to the email below that I received from Facebook, Facebook's Developer Terms of Service (http://developers.facebook.com/terms.php) clearly state that Facebook takes "no right of any kind" (other than rights expressly granted in the Developer agreement) in "Facebook Platform Application Content". From the Developer ToS:...
Thanks again for taking your time to get clarification on the FB questions. Appreciated.
Acadiana Al
Smugmug: Bayou Oaks Studio
Blog: Journey to the Light
"Serendipity...the faculty of making happy, unexpected discoveries by accident." .... Horace Walpole, 1754 (perhaps that 'lucky shot' wasn't really luck at all!)
Thanks again for taking your time to get clarification on the FB questions. Appreciated.
Bad news: The same Facebook guy wrote back to me yesterday and said that oops, he got it wrong. Facebook DOES claim the same rights to use photos viewable through Smugfoto as it does for photos you post directly on Facebook:
--- On Wed, 2/18/09, Facebook Support<developers-help+nixixir@facebook.com> wrote:
From: Facebook Support <developers-help+nixixir@facebook.com>
Subject: Re: Question about Facebook copyright policy and Terms of Use
To: XXXXX@yahoo.com
Date: Wednesday, February 18, 2009, 2:42 AM
Hi XXXXX,
I apologize for my misunderstanding. The answer to your question is yes; Facebook retains these rights over photos displayed within an application (such as SmugFoto). If you would like to remove this application and block it from interacting with your account, you may do so on its About page. There you will have the option to "Block this Application" on the right side of the screen.
Please let me know if you have any further questions.
Thanks for contacting Facebook,
Maurice
Platform Developer Operations & Support
Facebook
Original Message to Facebook
From: XXXXX (XXXXX@yahoo.com)
To: Facebook Support (developers-help+nixixir@facebook.com)
ArrayCC: copyright@facebook.com (copyright@facebook.com), privacy@facebook.com (privacy@facebook.com)
Subject: Re: Question about Facebook copyright policy and Terms of Use
Maurice,
You already replied to my question on 5 February. It seems you are now changing your answer.
But I don't know what an application's "canvas page" is. I am not an application developer; I am just an ordinary user of the Smugfoto application on Facebook. Also, I cited the user TOS, not the developer TOS as you claim, so your new answer is confusing. Please note that the developer of Smugfoto has no rights to my content hosted on the Smugmug site. I, the end user, am the rights holder for that content.
My question, which I am still not sure you have answered, is this:
Does Facebook claim that an ordinary user who makes remotely-hosted photos visible on Facebook via the Smugfoto Facebook Application gives Facebook the same rights to use those photos as if he had posted the photos directly on Facebook?
Remember, I am an ordinary user, not a developer. Please give me a direct and specific "plain English" answer to this simple question. A simple yes or no will do.
If Facebook is now claiming this right in contravention of your previous response, I will immediately remove the Smugfoto application from my account. I expressly reject and will contest any attempt by Facebook to assert control over any content of mine that I never posted on Facebook.
Sincerely,
XXXXX
--- On Tue, 2/17/09, Facebook Support
<developers-help+nixixir@facebook.com> wrote:
From: Facebook Support <developers-help+nixixir@facebook.com>
Subject: Re: Question about Facebook copyright policy and Terms of Use
To: XXXXX@yahoo.com
Date: Tuesday, February 17, 2009, 7:08 AM
Hi XXXXX,
I sincerely apologize for the delay in responding to your email. The section of our Developer Terms of Service that you cited does in fact apply to content hosted at a separate server but displayed within an application's canvas page on Facebook. Please let me know if you have any further questions or need further clarification on this issue.
Thanks,
Maurice
Platform Developer Operations & Support
Facebook
I have stopped using Smugfoto as a result, and I recommend other Facebook users do the same.
"[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Photography is often finding something cool and taking a picture of it."[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] -- Ken Rockwell[/FONT]
Bad news: The same Facebook guy wrote back to me yesterday and said that oops, he got it wrong. Facebook DOES claim the same rights to use photos viewable through Smugfoto as it does for photos you post directly on Facebook:
I have stopped using Smugfoto as a result, and I recommend other Facebook users do the same.
Thanks much for update. I too have now deleted the SmugFoto app from my Facebook. Will also be very careful about which photos I choose to put on their site.
I assume putting links to my Smugmug site on Facebook doesn't fall under the same category and is "safe". Regards.
Acadiana Al
Smugmug: Bayou Oaks Studio
Blog: Journey to the Light
"Serendipity...the faculty of making happy, unexpected discoveries by accident." .... Horace Walpole, 1754 (perhaps that 'lucky shot' wasn't really luck at all!)
Comments
Slideshow?
James
Langford Photography
http://www.langfordphotography.com
james@langfordphotography.com
Seconded.
85mm f/1.8, 17-50 + 28-75m f/2.8 lenses
iMac 24" 2.8 GHz Intel Core 2 Extreme, 4Gb RAM, OSX 10.5.7
http://encosion.com/ | http://encosion.smugmug.com/
I'm interested in features that let me avoid handing over my bare naked behind to Facebook with regards to usage rights to my photos, and as far as I can tell the above two do just that. Can you tell me more about how they will work?
I would also like to be able to embed videos and slideshows.
Thanks,
Malte
My thoughts EXACTLY!
Nikon | Private Photojournalist
Ditto again! I am presently using SmugFoto app in FB which seems to work pretty well...shows captions and EXIF. Any feedback on using SmugFoto with Smugmug?
Smugmug: Bayou Oaks Studio
Blog: Journey to the Light
"Serendipity...the faculty of making happy, unexpected discoveries by accident." .... Horace Walpole, 1754 (perhaps that 'lucky shot' wasn't really luck at all!)
Malte
Error, error, error... Following that link gave me an error, adding the app gave me an error, and trying to navigate to the app? Error. Is this the official app? How did you come across it? Seems sort of official with the way it interacts with Smug.
In any case, I'll try back again later. Glad to see progress, if this is the official app.
Is this the errormessage you found confusing?
"Error while loading page from SmugMug [beta]There are still a few kinks Facebook and the makers of SmugMug [beta] are trying to iron out. We appreciate your patience as we try to fix these issues. Your problem has been logged - if it persists, please come back in a few days. Thanks!"
It is the official app but it is in BETA. The developer posted a link on Facebook and it worked when I checked it out.
Malte
Smugmug: Bayou Oaks Studio
Blog: Journey to the Light
"Serendipity...the faculty of making happy, unexpected discoveries by accident." .... Horace Walpole, 1754 (perhaps that 'lucky shot' wasn't really luck at all!)
Different Smug/FB app. This one is official, and is still in Beta.
I may have seen that one, but mostly I see a lot of much nastier ones. For example right now I get:
Hmmm....
Makes me feel all warm and fuzzy. Where's scotticus - this is his, right? Is there some official channel I can use to report bugs?
Portfolio • Workshops • Facebook • Twitter
Dgrin FAQ | Me | Workshops
Same here... and I am also very interested in any news on the possibility of a new version!
As for DavidTO's comment on Facebook's TOS - I can totally understand the hesitation of a professional photographer when it comes to posting their photos on FB given that they surrender all rights to their own works, but for the casual point and shooter who just wants to share pics of their friends with their friends, I don't see it being a big deal. (I fall into the latter category obviously)
http://www.williamrollins.smugmug.com/
Facebook ♦ Flickr ♦ SmugMug
SmugMug referral coupon code: ix3uDyfBU6xXs
(use this for a discount off your SmugMug subscription)
Smugmug: Bayou Oaks Studio
Blog: Journey to the Light
"Serendipity...the faculty of making happy, unexpected discoveries by accident." .... Horace Walpole, 1754 (perhaps that 'lucky shot' wasn't really luck at all!)
Cris then asked Carolyn if using an RSS feed or API hack circumvented the problem and she replied that it did not - FaceBook would still have the right to use your content. You can read that post here.
My Photos
My Blog
On Google+
On DrivingLine
It seems Ms. Wright is assuming that using an RSS feed/ API to display photos on Facebook is the same thing as "posting" photos on Facebook. I am curious as to whether Ms. Wright can cite any legal precedent or other authority for this proposition. Unless the definition of "posting" has already been resolved through well-established case law or some sort of statute, I believe it would be, at the very least, an open question to be decided in court.
My own view is that a photo is not "posted" on Facebook if it has not been uploaded to Facebook's servers. In the case of RSS feeds or API's, Facebook is just showing you content that has been posted elsewhere.
Think about it: Even if Facebook decides it wants to use one of your photos that you displayed via Smugfoto, how is it going to get the photo? It would have to download the photo from Smugmug and copy it to the Facebook servers, since you never put it there yourself. I think a court would frown on such actions... but hey, what do I know?
Smugmug's terms say: So Smugmug only claims the right to use your photos on Smugmug, while Facebook is claiming the right to do whatever the heck it wants with your photos: publish them in a book, use them in TV ads, sell them, whatever.
Smugmug: Bayou Oaks Studio
Blog: Journey to the Light
"Serendipity...the faculty of making happy, unexpected discoveries by accident." .... Horace Walpole, 1754 (perhaps that 'lucky shot' wasn't really luck at all!)
According to the email below that I received from Facebook, Facebook's Developer Terms of Service (http://developers.facebook.com/terms.php) clearly state that Facebook takes "no right of any kind" (other than rights expressly granted in the Developer agreement) in "Facebook Platform Application Content". From the Developer ToS:
Facebook obtains no rights of any kind (other than the rights and licenses expressly granted in this Agreement) in, Facebook Platform Applications you create and in the Facebook Platform Application Content, and all associated Intellectual Property Rights (subject to Facebook's underlying rights in Facebook Platform and Facebook Site)
Those "expressly granted" rights and licenses seem to concern only the ability to use the Application Content for limited purposes, on Facebook only. Again, from the Developer ToS:
"You hereby grant us a worldwide, perpetual, irrevocable, non-exclusive right and license, with the right to sublicense, to: (a) access, reproduce, display, distribute, perform, and store on our servers your Facebook Platform Application and any Facebook Platform Application Content, and to create derivative works of Facebook Platform Application Content, as may be necessary or desirable to make such Facebook Platform Application and Facebook Platform Application Content available to Facebook Users in accordance with the terms of this Agreement and the Facebook Platform Documentation and the Facebook Platform Application Guidelines; and (b) otherwise access, use and analyze any Facebook Platform Application Content for our internal business purposes (e.g., for the purposes of targeting delivery of advertisements or other content to persons who have viewed particular types of Facebook Platform Application Content). You understand and agree that Facebook Platform Application Content that is displayed on the Facebook Site may continue to appear on the Facebook Site, even after you have terminated access to your Facebook Platform Application or terminated this Agreement, as such Facebook Platform Application Content may have been incorporated into user profiles, news feeds or other features, and that such usage may continue indefinitely."
The upshot of all this seems to be that when you use the Smugfoto application to display Smugmug-hosted photos on Facebook, you retain all rights to use your photo and Facebook receives no license to use the photo in any other way.
True, Facebook could argue that their publishing your photos in a book or using them in a magazine advertisement would be "desirable to make such Facebook Platform Application and Facebook Platform Application Content available to Facebook Users", but this claim seems tenuous at best given that (1) such uses would reach a wide audience of Facebook users and non-users alike, and (2) the Developer ToS are markedly different from the ordinary User ToS with respect to Facebook's license to use user content.
So, I think we can say Smugfoto users are NOT granting Facebook any sort of broad license to use their photos. Spread the word!
(Email from Facebook follows below.)
==============================
--- On Thu, 2/5/09, Facebook Support <developers-help+dixixix@facebook.com> wrote:
From: Facebook Support <developers-help+dixixix@facebook.com>
Subject: Re: Question about Facebook copyright policy and Terms of Use
To: [xxxxx]@yahoo.com
Date: Thursday, February 5, 2009, 2:36 AM
Hi [xxxxx],
Thank you for your inquiry. Section 4 of our Developer Terms of Service (http://developers.facebook.com/terms.php) states that "You retain all right, title and interest in and to, and Facebook obtains no rights of any kind (other than the rights and licenses expressly granted in this Agreement) in, Facebook Platform Applications you create and in the Facebook Platform Application Content, and all associated Intellectual Property Rights (subject to Facebook's underlying rights in Facebook Platform and Facebook Site)", where "you" represents an application developer. Please let me know if you have any further questions.
Thanks for contacting Facebook,
Maurice
Platform Developer Operations & Support
Facebook
Original Message to Facebook
From: [xxxxx] ([xxxxx]@yahoo.com)
To: copyright@facebook.com (copyright@facebook.com),privacy@facebook.com (privacy@facebook.com)
Subject: Question about Facebook copyright policy and Terms of Use
To Whom It May Concern:
I would like to know whether Facebook takes the position that using a Facebook Application to view content hosted on servers at a third-party site, counts as "posting" User Content to Facebook under the Facebook Terms of Service.
In particular, I am interested in how this matter applies to the Facebook Application called "Smugfoto" (http://www.facebook.com/apps/application.php?id=8226496548)
Facebook's Terms of Service state:
"When you post User Content to the Site... you automatically grant, and you represent and warrant that you have the right to grant, to the Company an irrevocable, perpetual, non-exclusive, transferable, fully paid, worldwide license (with the right to sublicense) to use, copy, publicly perform, publicly display, reformat, translate, excerpt (in whole or in part) and distribute such User Content for any purpose..."
The Smugfoto application lets Facebook users view photos that a user has posted to the site Smugmug.com. Such photos remain hosted at Smugmug.com and, to the best of my knowledge, are not transfered to Facebook servers at any time. Therefore, it would seem to me that they are not "posted" on Facebook for purposes of the abovementioned term and license.
Could you please clarify Facebook's position on this matter?
Thank you,
[xxxxx]
End Original Message to Facebook
Smugmug: Bayou Oaks Studio
Blog: Journey to the Light
"Serendipity...the faculty of making happy, unexpected discoveries by accident." .... Horace Walpole, 1754 (perhaps that 'lucky shot' wasn't really luck at all!)
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Bad news: The same Facebook guy wrote back to me yesterday and said that oops, he got it wrong. Facebook DOES claim the same rights to use photos viewable through Smugfoto as it does for photos you post directly on Facebook:
I have stopped using Smugfoto as a result, and I recommend other Facebook users do the same.
I assume putting links to my Smugmug site on Facebook doesn't fall under the same category and is "safe". Regards.
Smugmug: Bayou Oaks Studio
Blog: Journey to the Light
"Serendipity...the faculty of making happy, unexpected discoveries by accident." .... Horace Walpole, 1754 (perhaps that 'lucky shot' wasn't really luck at all!)