Class anybody?

Nikolai

I'm thinking of doing a 1.66 day (whole Saturday and 2/3 Sunday) fashion/model portraiture class next spring, April-May 2009, here in Conejo Valley (so I don't have to move my lights too far, and it's only 40 min from LAX anyway).
The curriculum I'm thinking about may include some or all of the following topics:

• studio lighting 101
• light modifiers and what they do
• various light setups
• posing techniques (with models)
• live shooting practice (with models)
• sunset shooting (with models, hills or beach) - after dinner on Saturday
• sunrise shooting (with models, beach) - before lunch on Sunday
• RAWflow (from flash cards to final results in no time)
• Postprocesing tips and tricks

I'm wondering if this idea holds any water. I'm putting a multiple choice poll (the names will be shown, please don't vote if you have no intention to attend it at all), please check those you think you'd be interested in attending (if the price is right, of course:-).
Your ideas and comments are welcome, too!:-)

pyrtek

I'm sorry, but do you really think you're competent enough to be teaching this
stuff? Judging by your latest posts, you seem to be still learning how to light
and how to direct your models. It seems a bit arrogant to be thinking of teaching
where you are clearly still the student. Maybe have a look at what people like
Platon are doing with portraiture before assuming you have any skills at all in
the genre. Note that he is basically using one extremely simple lighting
scheme for 95% of his world famous portraits. Do you think it's the technical
that makes him the photographer he is? Please have a little bit of humility.

jeffreaux2

Sorry Nik.

LA might be a stretch for me regardless of what is covered. FWIW, I would be VERY interested in a workshop on the business side of photography rather than anything to do with the technical aspect.

Nikolai

I will attend for sure unless there is an emergency

jeffreaux2 wrote:

Sorry Nik.

LA might be a stretch for me regardless of what is covered. FWIW, I would be VERY interested in a workshop on the business side of photography rather than anything to do with the technical aspect.

Thanks, Jeff!
That would be the subject for the class 2010 :-)
At the moment I'm only ready to do technical stuff.
And I understand the distance issues...

jeffreaux2

Nikolai wrote:

Thanks, Jeff!
That would be the subject for the class 2010 :-)
At the moment I'm only ready to do technical stuff.
And I understand the distance issues...

Well, it wouldn't require an "expert" on the business of photography to draw me. A conference of a small group of professionals to share their approach in a forum type setting might be just as well. Maybe each taking an hour to focus on something he/she is very good at. I would be an awesome pupil when the subject of the business of wedding photography came up!

Nikolai

I will attend for sure unless there is an emergency

pyrtek wrote:

I'm sorry, but do you really think you're competent enough to be teaching this stuff? ...

I'm having a deja vu...
To answer your question: yes, I do.

Nikolai

I will attend for sure unless there is an emergency

jeffreaux2 wrote:

Well, it wouldn't require an "expert" on the business of photography to draw me. A conference of a small group of professionals to share their approach in a forum type setting might be just as well. Maybe each taking an hour to focus on something he/she is very good at. I would be an awesome pupil when the subject of the business of wedding photography came up!

That's what the shootout is for:-)

ChatKat

Business Side of Business

Nikolai wrote:

That's what the shootout is for:-)

I think it's great to network and exchange ideas in many forms - classes, workshops, playdates, shootouts. I have spent much time and a few dollars learning my skills. I spent a week at the Santa Fe Workshops learning studio lighting and it barely touched the iceberg.

Pyrtek - Platon is an incredible teacher and his workshop in Santa Fe is on my list for certain!

Nik, were you planning a play date or were you charging for your class? Can you expand on the survey? it's hard to answer when you don't have any information!

My day job is that of QuickBooks Advisor and Bookkeeper. I have 30 +years of business and tax consulting experience. I am teaching a Super Monday Class at my studio in Woodland Hills for PPA - all day- QuickBooks, Business Plans and Operations, Pricing and Employees. I have an Intellectual Property Attorney who will be joining the seminar at lunch. All the basics and more of business. I have taught similar classes for several chambers of commerce and business groups. I'd gladly do a weekend class for those interested. I am working currently on a distance learning setup for photographers. If your are interested, I could break it up from an all day to a weekly coaching via webinar. Please let me know.

Nikolai

I will attend for sure unless there is an emergency

ChatKat wrote:

INik, were you planning a play date or were you charging for your class? Can you expand on the survey? it's hard to answer when you don't have any information!

Thanks Kathy!

It's gonna be paid. In anycase, (good) models don't come free and neither do the meeting rooms, at least for the setup I envision. How much - I can't answer at this point, but, as I mentioned, my questions were preceded with the condition "if the price is right", so simply assume the price is right for you :-)
The rest of the info is pretty much about the curriculum, which I think I covered more or less... Again, this is ~9 months away and I'm only asking for tentative answers.

Sam

pyrtek wrote:

I'm sorry, but do you really think you're competent enough to be teaching this
stuff? Judging by your latest posts, you seem to be still learning how to light
and how to direct your models. It seems a bit arrogant to be thinking of teaching
where you are clearly still the student. Maybe have a look at what people like
Platon are doing with portraiture before assuming you have any skills at all in
the genre. Note that he is basically using one extremely simple lighting
scheme for 95% of his world famous portraits. Do you think it's the technical
that makes him the photographer he is? Please have a little bit of humility.

Bernard,

Did you get up on the wrong side of the bed or what?

To be clear, yes Nikolai is still learning about light. He will continue to learn about light until the earth swallows him up and he is naught but dust.

I have looked at a fair amount of photography, and some of Nikolai's work I have seen recently is as good, if not better than anything I have seen on a magazine cover.

Nine months from I guarantee you he will know a lot more than he does now, and the class will be worth it.

It's not important, or even realistic that a teacher / instructor be the worlds leading authority on a particular subject to teach others. The important thing is that the teacher / instructor have more knowledge than the students being taught, and that they learn, and progress from the class.

Sam

Richard

Sam wrote:

To be clear, yes Nikolai is still learning about light. He will continue to learn about light until the earth swallows him up and he is naught but dust.

Well put, Sam. A teacher doesn't need to know all there is to know, just a lot more than the students. Since I know nothing at all about lighting, I'm sure I would learn a great deal. Too bad it's 6000 miles away from me.

Nikolai

I will attend for sure unless there is an emergency

Richard wrote:

Too bad it's 6000 miles away from me.

We can try web cast:-)
Thanks!

Scott_Quier

RAWflow

Taking the "anonymous factor" completely out of the discussion (at least at the time of this writing), there are a number of topics there that I find of interest. I also think that if Kathy were able to add some of her expertise to the day, you would have a winning combination.

Oh, I forgot to include that I would be there if the price is right and assuming some of the above.

I must note that I was dis-inclined to attend until I read Sam's post - that kinda' put it all into perspective for me.

1pocket

Richard wrote:

Well put, Sam. A teacher doesn't need to know all there is to know, just a lot more than the students. Since I know nothing at all about lighting, I'm sure I would learn a great deal. Too bad it's 6000 miles away from me.

Nik, I always enjoy your photos, but I am a long ways away too.

But I was kind of wondering why this thread wasn't in the "Mind your own Business" subforum, or wherever else they post paid opportunities. Of course, you could post the thread over there Nik (if the mods don't move it anyway) and then still plug it from here, with all your wonderful "people" examples from your shoots.

I'll be looking on from 3000 miles away...

evoryware

Postprocesing tips and tricks

He doesn't need to be an official Canon Explorer of Light.

No problem Nik!

Nikolai

I will attend for sure unless there is an emergency

Scott_Quier wrote:

Taking the "anonymous factor" completely out of the discussion (at least at the time of this writing), there are a number of topics there that I find of interest. I also think that if Kathy were able to add some of her expertise to the day, you would have a winning combination.

Oh, I forgot to include that I would be there if the price is right and assuming some of the above.

I must note that I was dis-inclined to attend until I read Sam's post - that kinda' put it all into perspective for me.

Thanks for the support and the ideas, Scott!
And I guess I owe Uncle Sam a big jug of

Nikolai

I will attend for sure unless there is an emergency

1pocket wrote:

Nik, I always enjoy your photos, but I am a long ways away too.

But I was kind of wondering why this thread wasn't in the "Mind your own Business" subforum, or wherever else they post paid opportunities. Of course, you could post the thread over there Nik (if the mods don't move it anyway) and then still plug it from here, with all your wonderful "people" examples from your shoots.

I'll be looking on from 3000 miles away...

Thanks!
I was really torn about where to put this...
It's indeed partially Business, but it's also a lot of Technique, then some about the Gear, and we simply don't have an Education section. So I decided that since it's mostly about People and primarily can be interesting for those who operate in this category, I'll post it here, and if Mods find a better place - they can always move it..

Nikolai

I will attend for sure unless there is an emergency

evoryware wrote:

He doesn't need to be an official Canon Explorer of Light.
No problem Nik!

I was hoping that I can get away without obtaining that one, along with the Nobel Peace Prize
Thanks!

Richard

Nikolai wrote:

Thanks!
I was really torn about where to put this...
It's indeed partially Business, but it's also a lot of Technique, then some about the Gear, and we simply don't have an Education section. So I decided that since it's mostly about People and primarily can be interesting for those who operate in this category, I'll post it here, and if Mods find a better place - they can always move it..

I think it's fine where it is.

Nikolai

I will attend for sure unless there is an emergency

Richard wrote:

I think it's fine where it is.

Ye Mod hath spoken'th

Moogle Pepper

posing techniques (with models)

You need to bring it over to NJ! :cry

Nikolai

I will attend for sure unless there is an emergency

Moogle Pepper wrote:

You need to bring it over to NJ! :cry

If you can find 10-12 people who are interested, I don't see why not
But at this point I'd rather play it on a home field, since at least I won't have any logistical problems...

Moogle Pepper

posing techniques (with models)

I'll give you really good and healthy vegetarian food! You will be well fed!

I think, for beginners like myself, posing is one of the hardest things to do. I think posing is more important to learn before the real aesthetic technical stuff.

schmoo

I might attend, but I don't know yet

I think it's awesome that you're doing this, Nik.

No promises since I'm on the other side of the country but we'll see next spring if I have room in my schedule to travel a bit.

Nikolai

I will attend for sure unless there is an emergency

Moogle Pepper wrote:

I'll give you really good and healthy vegetarian food! You will be well fed!

Sorry, "steve" :-), you must know that I'm a red meat/sashimi person..

I think, for beginners like myself, posing is one of the hardest things to do. I think posing is more important to learn before the real aesthetic technical stuff.

That's not entirely accurate. Posing is only hard if you deal with inexperienced models, which scenario also applies to all non-model folks who you shoot at family portraits sessions, seniors, weddings and other case. However, if you deal with pro actors/models this should be one of the least of your worries, since those individuals are comfortable in front of the camera and already know what works and what doesn't.
There is not a single thing in this whole suggested curriculum that is "more" important than the others. *Anything* goes wrong - and it affects the final result.

Nikolai

I will attend for sure unless there is an emergency

schmoo wrote:

I think it's awesome that you're doing this, Nik.

No promises since I'm on the other side of the country but we'll see next spring if I have room in my schedule to travel a bit.

Yay, people, we may have our very own model, right Steph?

evoryware

Postprocesing tips and tricks

Learning to use and manipulate light is of the utmost importance for any type of photography, IMO.

Moogle Pepper

posing techniques (with models)

Well I kinda think that, for myself, it is posing. Well all the others are very important too. It's just the posing that has a roadblock..for myself. It's a whole new threshold for me to do. I am a pretty shy person, a joker for sure, but overall shy.

Nikolai

I will attend for sure unless there is an emergency

evoryware wrote:

Learning to use and manipulate light is of the utmost importance for any type of photography, IMO.

It's definitely a very hard skill to master, primarily due to a very steep learning curve, since you either dealing with a fleeting nature of a ever-changing natural light or with the complexity (and a huge expense) of the studio lighting.
However, as I mentioned, one can't single out this or that issue that all should work flawlessly in a seamless ensemble to obtain the untilte result - beautiful portrait. We all simply have different backgrounds, hence our priorites differ at any given moment of time. One person is comfortable with all the postprocessing techniques yet never used a flash outside ETTL mode, another can be a pure genius in composition but afiard of the word "layers".
The primary reason IMHO that you (and I, frankly) feel that the lighting is the "key" part of this curriculum is that it takes an ungodly amount of $$$ just to begin with, so most of us simply don't have a chance to play. And even when you do, there are so many variables and complications that you simply get an information overload within the first 10 minutes.
That's why in the suggested class I'm trying to build and share the concepts, supported by the immediate practice. Think of it as a lego system. Once you get an idea in your head, you can build a copy of disneyland.
Not so long ago I didn't know what to do with a third light, or what is the actuall difference between an umbrella, a shoot-through, a brollybox, a softbox and a gridded softbox (if they are al the same diameter, of course:-)... Now... well, I do, and I'd like to share this knowledge:-)

evoryware

Postprocesing tips and tricks

Sounds good to me!!

lisap

Too far away for me :cry , otherwise I'd definitely be interested.

-- Lisa P.