Lori, Joel, why don't you guys start a dedicated "Route 66" thread in "Location, Location, Location" or "Journey" section? I think it's a great initiative that deserves special attention. Many people would probably gladly play ball on that... And then Schmoo would help to create a Blurb book, right Steph?
However in this case we only talking about One Annual Dgrin/Smugmug Shootout - and, just like in the movie Highlander, "there can be only one"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
I think it is great that so many people are attending this year's event. But I wonder about the additional 50% (30 people) still waiting. And how many people didn't even try to get wait listed since the list was so long? I actually almost missed signing up since I was taveling a lot at the time the event was announced. I'm not sure, but didn't it fill up in a week? I even skipped my annual Winter/Spring event to make sure I could attend this year in the fall.
Take it as a compliment on the comraderie of Dgrin so many want to attend, but if it is to be THE annual event, I think it needs to be open to more folks. How so that it doesn't become unwieldly?? Not a clue since I know the accomodations in locals like Moab are rather limited. It isn't like planning a convention in Dallas or NOLA.
Since it is an ad hoc gathering, with a very limited agenda, and not a workshop with a schedule, I think the locale + the Dgrin hugfest IS the appeal. Workshops? Las Vegas, LA, Maine, Santa Fe, Chicago, NYC. Been to them all, and I think (hope!) the Shootout will exceed these.
I'm not too worried about the location, as much as making sure the flavor of the event remains the same. I'm as excited about the 4 days of Pre-Shootout journey/events I have planned as I am actually getting to Red Cliffs.
"Don't ask me what I think of you, I might not give the answer that you want me to. Oh well."
-Fleetwood Mac
I think it is great that so many people are attending this year's event. But I wonder about the additional 50% (30 people) still waiting. And how many people didn't even try to get wait listed since the list was so long? I actually almost missed signing up since I was taveling a lot at the time the event was announced. I'm not sure, but didn't it fill up in a week? I even skipped my annual Winter/Spring event to make sure I could attend this year in the fall.
I admit the limited accessibility is an issue, and since, as you mentioned, this is not something we would rent Moscone center for, it will probably remain one. Last time (Montana) the hotel we stayed in simply ran out of food for the last two days:-), we'd rather not having this happening again:-). At this point none of us fathoms the possibility of opening the signup flood gates, since it would effectively destroy the event as we know it. There are certain constraints under which we operate, limited attendance is one of them.
Last time (Montana) the hotel we stayed in simply ran out of food for the last two days:-), we'd rather not having this happening again:-).
Well, didn't the lodge last year run out of food mostly because they were closing for the season and had no plans to reopen in the spring? (Not so much because of our group size)
I think it is great that so many people are attending this year's event. But I wonder about the additional 50% (30 people) still waiting.
For this year (Moab 2008) that is correct. We had a limit of 60 people for this event and even with people dropping out last-minute, we still exceed that number.
Since it is an ad hoc gathering, with a very limited agenda, and not a workshop with a schedule, I think the locale + the Dgrin hugfest IS the appeal. Workshops? Las Vegas, LA, Maine, Santa Fe, Chicago, NYC. Been to them all, and I think (hope!) the Shootout will exceed these.
The limited ability is an issue that we are struggling with and is something under great discussions, but the shootout is not a small, intimate, hands-on workshop (like Munech Workshops) nor is it a convention in a big city like Photoshop World where people spent most of the day in lectures in a big city like Las Vegas.
People tend to avoid workshops due to the cost since they can not afford it without saving for a long period of time. People attend conventions because they can afford to go since they’re usually held in a big city that can handle a large group of people (cheaper), but don’t like them because they are too big, not hands on enough since they’re usually sitting in a room listen to a presentation for days and don’t seem to make as many connections with others due to the size of the event.
A few years ago, some members of our wonderful community thought it would be a great idea for some of them to get together and photograph some place beautiful. The shootout not a workshop and it is not a convention.
The size is something needs to be figured out because if it’s too big, you lose some of the qualities of the shootout since one of the main keys is to meet people.
I'm as excited about the 4 days of Pre-Shootout journey/events I have planned as I am actually getting to Red Cliffs.
I think people are excited whenever we can meet other people with the same interests like the Scott Kelby Photowalks. And meeting other dgrinners is icing on the cake. That being said, the shootout isn’t the only time/place where we can meet each other. Dgrinners have organized events outside of the shootout! Check out Locations!
Dgrinners are my photography family. And I don’t need an “official” shootout to meet you. If you’re ever in my of the woods, let me know! I would love to go out and take some photos with you.
Not trying to take advantage of volunteers effort, really. However for lots of the trainings I do for work, what we do is do two in the same location back to back with a day in the middle. So for instance if it is a two day seminar, Sunday is setup/travel in, Monday & Tuesday is seminar, Wednesday is travel in and out for the attendees and a break for the presenters, Thursday and Friday is seminar, Saturday is tear down travel out.
Just thinking out loud.
Also what we have done is the first seminar is basic, second seminar is advanced so that someone can stay for both if they want.
I would recommend the Grand Teton / Yellowstone area in the early fall. In my opinion, it is one of the most beautiful places in the country. Getting there can be tough, with the closest airport being in Jackson Hole, and being fairly small. You can fly into Idaho Falls, and then drive over to the parks in a few hours. My trip to the Tetons a few years back was very memorable, and I'd love to go back, especially in fall when the trees are turning:
I would recommend the Grand Teton / Yellowstone area in the early fall. In my opinion, it is one of the most beautiful places in the country. Getting there can be tough, with the closest airport being in Jackson Hole, and being fairly small. You can fly into Idaho Falls, and then drive over to the parks in a few hours. My trip to the Tetons a few years back was very memorable, and I'd love to go back, especially in fall when the trees are turning:
James
Maybe this has already been done, but how about Canada? The Killarney (Georgian Bay) area in Ontario as well as the Bruce Penninsula are especially beautiful and scenic. At least, the Group of Seven thought so.
"They've done studies you know. Sixty-percent of the time, it works every time."
Maybe this has already been done, but how about Canada? The Killarney (Georgian Bay) area in Ontario as well as the Bruce Penninsula are especially beautiful and scenic. At least, the Group of Seven thought so.
This post by Andy got me thinking: NYC! I love it there. Andy, Vincent & any other East Coast pros could definitely setup some excellent day trips or suggestions for same. Chinatown, Times Square (day or night), The Cloisters, Alphabet City, head out to Long Island, Central Park, ICP, MoMA, Greenwich Village, Washington Square Park, Fulton Fish Market. Maybe at the same time as PDN PhotoPlus 2009 (October probably).
Oh, and of course a day trip to B&H
"Don't ask me what I think of you, I might not give the answer that you want me to. Oh well."
-Fleetwood Mac
This post by Andy got me thinking: NYC! I love it there. Andy, Vincent & any other East Coast pros could definitely setup some excellent day trips or suggestions for same. Chinatown, Times Square (day or night), The Cloisters, Alphabet City, head out to Long Island, Central Park, ICP, MoMA, Greenwich Village, Washington Square Park, Fulton Fish Market. Maybe at the same time as PDN PhotoPlus 2009 (October probably).
Oh, and of course a day trip to B&H
Sounds wonderful, and we can discuss it. However, this is one of those trips that may be better organized as a 'grassroots' shoot. We will certainly add it to our list for consideration.
There was a photo contest recently that had its grand prize as a trip for two to Antarctica. My mother immediately said, "Oh, you don't want to win that." To which I responded, "Oh yes I would! That would be awesome to shoot!" I'm with ya'.
Maybe this has already been done, but how about Canada? The Killarney (Georgian Bay) area in Ontario as well as the Bruce Penninsula are especially beautiful and scenic. At least, the Group of Seven thought so.
+1 for a shootout north of the border. We have so much to offer out here and a lot of it is with in a couple hours drive from major US cities and/or the border. I've organized a couple of informal photography tours like the shoutouts and just got back from a scouting trip to Vancouver Island for future possible photo trips.
Would love to volunteer and help out for anything in this country or share any of my experiences if so wanted.
Okay...the post shootout fuzziness should be clearing. Lets hear some feedback here...ideas for improvements, what worked, what didn't. Have your say to help the shootouts evolve from the quiet get together of 20 (Shootout #1) to the event of the year that they are now. This is your chance to make the best better!
ann
(and feel free to email me if you don't want your great idea public!)
Ok, here's my suggestion. Make it more difficult for folks to simply not show up for the shootout with no notice. I know there were at least two no-shows that could have reliquished their spots to folks on the waiting list. Evidently, the $300 deposit wasn't enough to deter those people.
I think the matter could resolved by simply publishing a drop-dead date for cancelations, where we make it clear that you will lose your deposit after that. Then in the weeks before the shootout, publish a reminder or two about the drop-dead date. I think that would get people off-the-fence who are still undecided at that point. I'd also send out an email reminder to the attendees just so we're constantly in their face. One could add more teeth to the cut-off date by billing the remainder of the shootout fee (hotel fee) after that date as well.
Ok, here's my suggestion. Make it more difficult for folks to simply not show up for the shootout with no notice. I know there were at least two no-shows that could have reliquished their spots to folks on the waiting list. Evidently, the $300 deposit wasn't enough to deter those people.
I think the matter could resolved by simply publishing a drop-dead date for cancelations, where we make it clear that you will lose your deposit after that. Then in the weeks before the shootout, publish a reminder or two about the drop-dead date. I think that would get people off-the-fence who are still undecided at that point. I'd also send out an email reminder to the attendees just so we're constantly in their face. One could add more teeth to the cut-off date by billing the remainder of the shootout fee (hotel fee) after that date as well.
Joel, your story has been told and you may rest assured it will never happen again:-)
It would have been nice to have a better coordinated arrival day since there were activities planned for that evening. I thought I was on time making it there for the 3 o'clock check-in time. Well, many were already there since the morning and getting ready for go out to locations. The white board was blank, but luckily Kelsey was there to clue me in.
Activities throughout the day sometimes overlap so I would suggest specifying exact location along with other pertinent info on the board, instead of just meeting in the resort lobby, so that people returning late from another activity can join up with the group on their own.
A group dinner should be held on arrival night so that a group photo can be taken and everyone gets the chance to see/introduce/meet others in the group. At this shootout the group picture idea was brought up at the Friday night dinner, but it was already too late since some people had to leave the next day.
I won't be able to join next year's shootout, but hopefully these suggestions would make it even better.
Cuong
"She Was a Little Taste of Heaven – And a One-Way Ticket to Hell!" - Max Phillips
Name tag with dgrin names and real name. Nik even thought of adding the avatar image. Even a quick role call /stand up at the opening meeting.
Maybe more than 1/2 day or few hours notice on pro locations. Some of us had already been to some places and didn't want to go back but wanted to work with Marc, Dave or Andy.
"Don't ask me what I think of you, I might not give the answer that you want me to. Oh well."
-Fleetwood Mac
Ok, here's my suggestion. Make it more difficult for folks to simply not show up for the shootout with no notice. I know there were at least two no-shows that could have reliquished their spots to folks on the waiting list. Evidently, the $300 deposit wasn't enough to deter those people.
I think the matter could resolved by simply publishing a drop-dead date for cancelations, where we make it clear that you will lose your deposit after that. Then in the weeks before the shootout, publish a reminder or two about the drop-dead date. I think that would get people off-the-fence who are still undecided at that point. I'd also send out an email reminder to the attendees just so we're constantly in their face. One could add more teeth to the cut-off date by billing the remainder of the shootout fee (hotel fee) after that date as well.
It seems there are two sides to this (as there are for most things) drop dead deadline date. Shouldn't there be some accomodation for things beyond the control of the individual? Such as in the case of illness of the individual or close family member, heaven forbid the death of a close relative, vacation time canceled at the last minuite by employer. And in those cases check wait list even if beyond cut off date with refund as incentive to inform the registration committee even if after cut off to help those on wait list get in if possible in their personal situtation.
Jane B.
It seems there are two sides to this (as there are for most things) drop dead deadline date. Shouldn't there be some accomodation for things beyond the control of the individual? Such as in the case of illness of the individual or close family member, heaven forbid the death of a close relative, vacation time canceled at the last minuite by employer. And in those cases check wait list even if beyond cut off date with refund as incentive to inform the registration committee even if after cut off to help those on wait list get in if possible in their personal situtation.
Jane B.
Shouldn't there be some accomodation for things beyond the control of the individual?
Jane, think of this as if you're reserving the rooms yourself directly from the hotel, only throus us since we get you a better rate and a beter location.
After a certain date hotel makes it non-refundable.
We'll definitely try to help such an individual to "sell" his or her place to somebody on the waiting list, but that's about all we can do. If rooms were reserved and paid in advance, somebody has to pay the bill. We're not making ANY profit on this so there is no extra money to cover the absentees, whatever their reason may be. Financial obligations are financial obligations, no silver bullet here.
As April said, if you're really concerned about some force majeure - get the insurance. This insurance can also take care of your gear should it get dropped (gosh, I still remember the loud and well-echoed "clank" when TonyD dropped his D300 at South Window - luckily it survived:-), donked, or lost/stolen.
"A photo is like a hamburger. You can get one from McDonalds for $1, one from Chili's for $5, or one from Ruth's Chris for $15. You usually get what you pay for, but don't expect a Ruth's Chris burger at a McDonalds price, if you want that, go cook it yourself." - me
After that first year there hasn't been anyone interested in leading the charge.
But maybe that's about to change?
The shootouts were a wonderful thing, and I'd love to see it happen again. If there are people who are willing to step forward to make it happen, they'd have my full support and I'd share all that we've learned from past shootouts.
After that first year there hasn't been anyone interested in leading the charge.
But maybe that's about to change?
The shootouts were a wonderful thing, and I'd love to see it happen again. If there are people who are willing to step forward to make it happen, they'd have my full support and I'd share all that we've learned from past shootouts.
I would be glad to help organize some things in the Southeastern part of the US. I am familiar with some neat and interesting location in Louisiana, Alabama, and Florida; having lived in those areas extensively. And since I will be traveling southern Utah and AZ this summer for about a week, I might have some good ideas and input for those areas. And I also have lots of travel experience in Washington state, most from when I was growing up, but with close family moving back I have much more.
"A photo is like a hamburger. You can get one from McDonalds for $1, one from Chili's for $5, or one from Ruth's Chris for $15. You usually get what you pay for, but don't expect a Ruth's Chris burger at a McDonalds price, if you want that, go cook it yourself." - me
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On it! Have sent Joel a pm to get it started.
And thanks Schmoo!
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I think it is great that so many people are attending this year's event. But I wonder about the additional 50% (30 people) still waiting. And how many people didn't even try to get wait listed since the list was so long? I actually almost missed signing up since I was taveling a lot at the time the event was announced. I'm not sure, but didn't it fill up in a week? I even skipped my annual Winter/Spring event to make sure I could attend this year in the fall.
Take it as a compliment on the comraderie of Dgrin so many want to attend, but if it is to be THE annual event, I think it needs to be open to more folks. How so that it doesn't become unwieldly?? Not a clue
Since it is an ad hoc gathering, with a very limited agenda, and not a workshop with a schedule, I think the locale + the Dgrin hugfest IS the appeal. Workshops? Las Vegas, LA, Maine, Santa Fe, Chicago, NYC. Been to them all, and I think (hope!) the Shootout will exceed these.
I'm not too worried about the location, as much as making sure the flavor of the event remains the same. I'm as excited about the 4 days of Pre-Shootout journey/events I have planned as I am actually getting to Red Cliffs.
-Fleetwood Mac
Well, didn't the lodge last year run out of food mostly because they were closing for the season and had no plans to reopen in the spring? (Not so much because of our group size)
For this year (Moab 2008) that is correct. We had a limit of 60 people for this event and even with people dropping out last-minute, we still exceed that number.
Photos that don't suck / 365 / Film & Lomography
People tend to avoid workshops due to the cost since they can not afford it without saving for a long period of time. People attend conventions because they can afford to go since they’re usually held in a big city that can handle a large group of people (cheaper), but don’t like them because they are too big, not hands on enough since they’re usually sitting in a room listen to a presentation for days and don’t seem to make as many connections with others due to the size of the event.
A few years ago, some members of our wonderful community thought it would be a great idea for some of them to get together and photograph some place beautiful. The shootout not a workshop and it is not a convention.
The size is something needs to be figured out because if it’s too big, you lose some of the qualities of the shootout since one of the main keys is to meet people.
I think people are excited whenever we can meet other people with the same interests like the Scott Kelby Photowalks. And meeting other dgrinners is icing on the cake. That being said, the shootout isn’t the only time/place where we can meet each other. Dgrinners have organized events outside of the shootout! Check out Locations!
Dgrinners are my photography family. And I don’t need an “official” shootout to meet you. If you’re ever in my of the woods, let me know!
We'll let you know once we figure things out...
So… keep the ideas coming
Howdy-
Not trying to take advantage of volunteers effort, really. However for lots of the trainings I do for work, what we do is do two in the same location back to back with a day in the middle. So for instance if it is a two day seminar, Sunday is setup/travel in, Monday & Tuesday is seminar, Wednesday is travel in and out for the attendees and a break for the presenters, Thursday and Friday is seminar, Saturday is tear down travel out.
Just thinking out loud.
Also what we have done is the first seminar is basic, second seminar is advanced so that someone can stay for both if they want.
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Oh, and of course a day trip to B&H
-Fleetwood Mac
Sounds wonderful, and we can discuss it. However, this is one of those trips that may be better organized as a 'grassroots' shoot.
ann
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:hide Has camera, will travel!
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Travel = good. Woo, shooting!
nickwphoto
There was a photo contest recently that had its grand prize as a trip for two to Antarctica. My mother immediately said, "Oh, you don't want to win that." To which I responded, "Oh yes I would! That would be awesome to shoot!" I'm with ya'.
We'll add it to our list of suggestions.
www.ivarborst.nl & smugmug
Parka's would be necessary! How about the Galapagos?
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+1 for a shootout north of the border. We have so much to offer out here and a lot of it is with in a couple hours drive from major US cities and/or the border. I've organized a couple of informal photography tours like the shoutouts and just got back from a scouting trip to Vancouver Island for future possible photo trips.
Would love to volunteer and help out for anything in this country or share any of my experiences if so wanted.
Cheers,
D
www.dlphotography.ca
www.redbubble.com/people/dlibrach
SmugMug Technical Account Manager
Travel = good. Woo, shooting!
nickwphoto
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Equine Photography in Maryland - Dressage, Eventing, Hunters, Jumpers
ann
(and feel free to email me if you don't want your great idea public!)
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I think the matter could resolved by simply publishing a drop-dead date for cancelations, where we make it clear that you will lose your deposit after that. Then in the weeks before the shootout, publish a reminder or two about the drop-dead date. I think that would get people off-the-fence who are still undecided at that point. I'd also send out an email reminder to the attendees just so we're constantly in their face. One could add more teeth to the cut-off date by billing the remainder of the shootout fee (hotel fee) after that date as well.
Link to my Smugmug site
Activities throughout the day sometimes overlap so I would suggest specifying exact location along with other pertinent info on the board, instead of just meeting in the resort lobby, so that people returning late from another activity can join up with the group on their own.
A group dinner should be held on arrival night so that a group photo can be taken and everyone gets the chance to see/introduce/meet others in the group. At this shootout the group picture idea was brought up at the Friday night dinner, but it was already too late since some people had to leave the next day.
I won't be able to join next year's shootout, but hopefully these suggestions would make it even better.
Cuong
Maybe more than 1/2 day or few hours notice on pro locations. Some of us had already been to some places and didn't want to go back but wanted to work with Marc, Dave or Andy.
-Fleetwood Mac
It seems there are two sides to this (as there are for most things) drop dead deadline date. Shouldn't there be some accomodation for things beyond the control of the individual? Such as in the case of illness of the individual or close family member, heaven forbid the death of a close relative, vacation time canceled at the last minuite by employer. And in those cases check wait list even if beyond cut off date with refund as incentive to inform the registration committee even if after cut off to help those on wait list get in if possible in their personal situtation.
Jane B.
This is the reason why I buy travel insurance.
After a certain date hotel makes it non-refundable.
We'll definitely try to help such an individual to "sell" his or her place to somebody on the waiting list, but that's about all we can do. If rooms were reserved and paid in advance, somebody has to pay the bill. We're not making ANY profit on this so there is no extra money to cover the absentees, whatever their reason may be. Financial obligations are financial obligations, no silver bullet here.
As April said, if you're really concerned about some force majeure - get the insurance. This insurance can also take care of your gear should it get dropped (gosh, I still remember the loud and well-echoed "clank" when TonyD dropped his D300 at South Window - luckily it survived:-), donked, or lost/stolen.
After that first year there hasn't been anyone interested in leading the charge.
But maybe that's about to change?
The shootouts were a wonderful thing, and I'd love to see it happen again. If there are people who are willing to step forward to make it happen, they'd have my full support and I'd share all that we've learned from past shootouts.
Dgrin FAQ | Me | Workshops
I would be glad to help organize some things in the Southeastern part of the US. I am familiar with some neat and interesting location in Louisiana, Alabama, and Florida; having lived in those areas extensively. And since I will be traveling southern Utah and AZ this summer for about a week, I might have some good ideas and input for those areas. And I also have lots of travel experience in Washington state, most from when I was growing up, but with close family moving back I have much more.