Marketing Idea... opinions?

mmmatt

OK... so I have been whoring myself out lately to anyone who will pay me to shoot, and some who don't pay for that matter! Trying to cultivate business, build the portfolio, etc. I just landed this job (an actual paying one) to do a series of kid portraits, printed on site at a bar mitzvah, while my friend who I have been shooting bar/bat mitzvahs for, shoots the bar mitzvah.

The parent of the child was planning on using a big shinny poster to put the kids in front of, but what we ended up agreeing on was using a green screen. 50 kids printed on site in 2-3 hours should be mayhem! A fun challange though.

anyways, as for the marketing idea... I got to thinking how I would use this green screen that I am now investing in and with Halloween coming up I thought I might try setting up the green screen in the front yard and doing the same thing for the neighborhood kids in leiu of a handfull of candy. I would watermark each image (of course) with a pitch about me. I could keep it simple with only a few virtual backgrounds such as grave yard, sports stadium, fairie princess castle, a concert stage, and maybe a couple others... Try to keep it costume appropriate.

I have lots of friends that are in the same boat as me, trying to find work, and I know I could get at least 1 person to help me out. Kids would have to stop back to get their print, parents would want to chat and within a month I would be bathing in the piles of cash that would come my way! Well... maybe not bathing in it, but it would have to produce enough business to pay for some ink and photo paper I would think!

Any thoughts? Anybody ever tried anything similar?

Matt

OffTopic

I'm just picturing your place on Halloween now!

I love the idea. I think it's very creative and a great way to get your name out in the neighborhood.

I have one "but" - I think you would get a lot of happy parents and a lot of angry kids if you do it instead of candy. Having their picture taken isn't always a "treat" for the kids - I would also give them a piece of candy, although I realize that is a budget issue.

But however you decide to do it, I'd love to hear how it turns out.

Blaker

Cute idea, but I think this would work better at a town sponsored Halloween party at the civic center, where you would have a little more control.
Also, some parents could become very upset and scared when the kids get home and tell them that some guy took their photos.

OffTopic wrote:

I'm just picturing your place on Halloween now!

I love the idea. I think it's very creative and a great way to get your name out in the neighborhood.

I have one "but" - I think you would get a lot of happy parents and a lot of angry kids if you do it instead of candy. Having their picture taken isn't always a "treat" for the kids - I would also give them a piece of candy, although I realize that is a budget issue.

But however you decide to do it, I'd love to hear how it turns out.

mmmatt

Blaker wrote:

Cute idea, but I think this would work better at a town sponsored Halloween party at the civic center, where you would have a little more control.
Also, some parents could become very upset and scared when the kids get home and tell them that some guy took their photos.

Really? Has the world actually come to that? I can't imagine people would think it creepy. Especially when I am advertising a photography service on 1/4 of the 4x6 photo they bring home. But then again... who knows! Either way I DO appreciate the constructive criticiszms.

I'm more worried about rain or funky lighting on the green screen due to the 1-4pm trick or treat time they have around here, and kids actually waiting around or coming back for their photo. I have a friend with a white easy-up, and I think I will put the greenscreen in the back of the easy-up and bounce a couple of monolights off the inside of the ceiling to hopefully eliminate shadows on the screen and then use on-camera to light the subject.

I think this will be a hit with kids and parents both. I should probably do some candy too as said above, but most kids from my experience, love to see themselves in a picture. And POOF they're in a graveyard? How cool is that! I guess I will know after it is done!

I'm going to head out to a local cemetery one night this week to get some cool moon over the graveyard shots for a background. I have a billion concert shots I can go through to find a good one for the rock stars, I think I am going to try to set up a some of my daughters old toys for the princess, and I know a guy who shoots sports stuff who might let me use one of his shots for the sports guys... or we may have footbal players in a graveyard! A couple of props like plastic grave stones, a mic stand and guitar, something for the princess theam... This is going to be big fun!!!!

ziggy53

What lighting do you plan on using for the green screen and how well do you think it will translate to outdoors use?

mmmatt

ziggy53 wrote:

What lighting do you plan on using for the green screen and how well do you think it will translate to outdoors use?

I think I am going to use an easy-up and bounce a couple of mono lights. An easy-up is like the white translucent tents you see vendors use at festivals and whatnot. In my mind, I'm thinking I will use it with the 3 white translucent sides, and the greenscreen at the back. Hopefully that will diffuse the sunlight quite a bit, and then I will bounce a couple of 300ws monolights off the back half of the ceiling to the green screen, and use on camera for the subjects. My house faces east, so from 1pm on, I should have mostly overhead sunlight. The easy-up is 12x12 and I can move the subject up toward the front of the tent 5 or 6 ft off the greenscreen.

I *think* this should work and I will experiment before the date, but I am far from being a lighting expert and will take any suggestions. I don't want to get into complicated subject lighting though because this is all going to have to happen quickly to work at all. If I have a lul I may try some other lighting techniques, like glamour for the princess or underneath lighting for the vampires, but most likely it will just be simple on-camera for the subjects.

I curently have 2 monolights, 2 softboxes, 2 580exII's, stand mount hotshoe/umbrella brackets, umbrellas, an st-e2, and a cheezy ebay fm trigger for the mono-lights. I am working on picking up a photogenic 3head/400ws power supply but still trying to scrape together the dough for that, and I haven't yet bought the green screen, but I'm thinking using seamless because it is flatter and I like shooting on nice, flat, paper over cheap (aka what I can afford) muslin.

This is how it is playing out in my mind anyway!!! Suggestions are welcome!

Matt

ziggy53

mmmatt wrote:

I think I am going to use an easy-up and bounce a couple of mono lights. An easy-up is like the white translucent tents you see vendors use at festivals and whatnot. In my mind, I'm thinking I will use it with the 3 white translucent sides, and the greenscreen at the back. Hopefully that will diffuse the sunlight quite a bit, and then I will bounce a couple of 300ws monolights off the back half of the ceiling to the green screen, and use on camera for the subjects. My house faces east, so from 1pm on, I should have mostly overhead sunlight. The easy-up is 12x12 and I can move the subject up toward the front of the tent 5 or 6 ft off the greenscreen.

I *think* this should work and I will experiment before the date, but I am far from being a lighting expert and will take any suggestions. ...
Matt

Matt,

I love that you have put some time and thought into the lighting component.

Shooting with a green screen you really have to think about lighting 2 different, and sometimes conflicting, subjects. The first is the green screen itself. This has to be lit very evenly, side-to-side and top-to-bottom. Anything else causes problems in the post processing. Shadows from the subject are also going to impact on how easy it is to do the background removal. Soft shadows, I'm talking "very" soft shadows, are much easier to deal with than hard shadows on the background. Better is no visible shadows at all, as in head shots or head-and-shoulders with the shadow out of the image.

The green screen may also "poison" the edges of the subject with green light, destroying the effect of seperation from the background after background removal. Distance from the background can help as can "inverse" lighting with rim lights or inverse-colored reflectors.

Hair is especially tricky and too much light on the green screen can cause stray hair to disappear with the background removal.

While I'm not sure that 2 lights will give you all the control that you may want, it might work OK. You may find that bounced light using the sides of the easy-up in combination with some simple reflectors give you all the control you need.

Experiment and practice, that should prove the concept.

Best,

ziggy53

ziggy53 wrote:

Matt, ...

While I'm not sure that 2 lights will give you all the control that you may want, it might work OK. You may find that bounced light using the sides of the easy-up in combination with some simple reflectors give you all the control you need.

Experiment and practice, that should prove the concept.

Best,

PS, I just noticed you have 2 monolights "and" 2 speed-lights. With the stands and modifiers you have I think you'll do fine.

Nikolai

Blaker wrote:

Also, some parents could become very upset and scared when the kids get home and tell them that some guy took their photos.

I wouldn't venture into this myself without being hired or having an explicit (and sometimes written) consent by their parents.

OffTopic

mmmatt wrote:

Really? Has the world actually come to that? I can't imagine people would think it creepy.

I think it's a matter of knowing what would be considered acceptable in your neighborhood, and you know that best.

In my neighborhood, Halloween frequently turns into a big social event - the adults who are manning the house and handing out candy are usually outside eating chili and socializing, and the children roaming the neighborhood are almost always accompanied by an adult because the adult is "house hopping" and socializing too. No one would suspect any wrongdoing because there would be plenty of people keeping an eye on things, and probably joining in the fun. Guess that's why I didn't bat an eye at the idea.

Guess I forgot that not all neighborhoods are like that. Blaker made a good point that it wouldn't work in every neighborhood, but I gathered from your post that yours is one where this would be acceptable. And you could always cook up a big pot of chili and invite the neighbors from either side to come hang out and hand out their candy from your "photo studio".

darkdragon

It sounds like a great idea to me.

The only thing I would worry about is the liability of having the kids around all that gear. They could trip and get hurt or break something. Just make sure your homeowners insurance will cover this - I think it should since you aren't getting paid, but I'm no insurance lawyer.

mmmatt

Nikolai wrote:

I wouldn't venture into this myself without being hired or having an explicit (and sometimes written) consent by their parents.

I guess I don't understand what motivation a parent would have to be upset by this. Are you saying they might feel this is a pedophile thing, or the off chance that a beauty pageant girl would have non-sanctioned pictures out there, or what? I'm just not following this! Not trying to be confrontational, but I want to understand what you guys are thinking here. I'm not going to let anybody do sexy/sexual poses... that would be gross! Is the worry from the standpoint that I will be putting my photo biz info on the pictures and technically using this as advertizing? THAT I think would relieve thoughts of wrong-doing from most parents...

As for the neighborhood, I don't know what it will be like here for Halloween. I just moved here in June. It is a nice quiet neighborhood, established, probably about 1/2 renters (lots of duplexes), not too far from a few lower income neighborhoods so probably will be kids from other neighborhoods coming here for better candy scores.

Matt

Nikolai

mmmatt wrote:

I guess I don't understand what motivation a parent would have to be upset by this. Are you saying they might feel this is a pedophile thing, or the off chance that a beauty pageant girl would have non-sanctioned pictures out there, or what? I'm just not following this! Not trying to be confrontational, but I want to understand what you guys are thinking here. I'm not going to let anybody do sexy/sexual poses... that would be gross! Is the worry from the standpoint that I will be putting my photo biz info on the pictures and technically using this as advertizing? THAT I think would relieve thoughts of wrong-doing from most parents...

As for the neighborhood, I don't know what it will be like here for Halloween. I just moved here in June. It is a nice quiet neighborhood, established, probably about 1/2 renters (lots of duplexes), not too far from a few lower income neighborhoods so probably will be kids from other neighborhoods coming here for better candy scores.

Matt

Matt,
you don't have to be a pedofile to spook the parents off.

Simply the idea of having a total stranger taking a picture of the kids and then doing who knows what with them will not travel well.

Oh and btw, if you think of using any of these pictures later for your business (e.g. on your business cards, or as an advertizing on your website, or even on the home-printed flyers) without having signed release - that's a lawsuit that can easily ruin your life.

mmmatt

Nikolai wrote:

Matt,
you don't have to be a pedofile to spook the parents off.

Simply the idea of having a total stranger taking a picture of the kids and then doing who knows what with them will not travel well.

Oh and btw, if you think of using any of these pictures later for your business (e.g. on your business cards, or as an advertizing on your website, or even on the home-printed flyers) without having signed release - that's a lawsuit that can easily ruin your life.

Thanks Nikolai. Points noted.

Matt

*edit* If this is a way I want to make some money with like the bar mitzvah shoot I am doing, I would use my daughter as the model.

Nikolai

mmmatt wrote:

If this is a way I want to make some money with like the bar mitzvah shoot I am doing, I would use my daughter as the model.

That what I did :-)

urbanaries

If I sent my kid trick or treating and they came back with a really nice pic of themselves that looked like it was shot in a studio, you can be sure I wouldn't clutch my heart and go pay that person more money to photograph my kid. I would, however, think the person was one of those people who bought a new SLR and thought they could start a business with it. I'm sorry but it just screams desperate and unprofessional. I'm really not sure if it's legal but it just seems......shady.

JMHO.

ilbcnu

I have to agree with urbanaries...as a mom of a 12 yr old who still likes to cruise the neighborhood with friends on that eve - I would think it looks a little odd I don't know for sure why I am thinking that -it seems just odd....
On a second note maybe you could hand out /send out / walk around some professional looking fliers week or so before halloween showing a proof photo (to show a setup - not just some "joe" taking pics in the yard) stating something about being a new neighbor(I think you said you had just moved there in June?) and a professional photographer and would like to extend your services out to your new neighbors for halloween eve portraits for a small fee of.... as well as have the opportunity to meet your neighbors (also mentioning your other photography svcs).
For some reason advance notice or my choice to come makes me not uncomfortable with it...
good luck and let us know how it goes!

mmmatt

ilbcnu wrote:

I have to agree with urbanaries...as a mom of a 12 yr old who still likes to cruise the neighborhood with friends on that eve - I would think it looks a little odd I don't know for sure why I am thinking that -it seems just odd....
On a second note maybe you could hand out /send out / walk around some professional looking fliers week or so before halloween showing a proof photo (to show a setup - not just some "joe" taking pics in the yard) stating something about being a new neighbor(I think you said you had just moved there in June?) and a professional photographer and would like to extend your services out to your new neighbors for halloween eve portraits for a small fee of.... as well as have the opportunity to meet your neighbors (also mentioning your other photography svcs).
For some reason advance notice or my choice to come makes me not uncomfortable with it...
good luck and let us know how it goes!

I obviously have to think about this more... maybe it would be a good idea to run around some fliers and have a "permission slip" attached with some simple model release language. These are good points. I think it wouldn't be as bad as some people here think. Here in the midwest people tend to be pretty chill... I could also post a listing on craigslist and attract people from outside the neighborhood.

Matt

urbanaries

ilbcnu wrote:

I
For some reason advance notice or my choice to come makes me not uncomfortable with it...
good luck and let us know how it goes!

Advance notice is brilliant. Don't charge. Free open house. "My treat." Come get pics with your friends. Maybe even just send "customers" away with a pre printed card with the online proof gallery that night, then they can either download for free or buy nice prints. The younger kids' parents wouldn't be freaked out, and the older kids will take your shots and put them on their myspace....free advertising to their older friends looking for senior pictures.

Sell it right and you could turn this into a community rally around you. Do it wrong and it looks like you're trying to exploit what's supposed to be a fun night for kids.

Either way, you HAVE to report to us how it goes, and some sample shots!!! D

chuckinsocal

As for upsetting the parents, I'd include a business card with all your contact info on it with the candy or photo. It's not likely that a perv would identify himself like that so it would give you some credibility and perhaps the parents a little comfort that you are not some stranger stalking the neighborhood.

Just my nickel's worth.

Edit: OK, so I didn't read all the replies before posting this and I like the idea of advanced notice so that everyone is informed up front and they can decide whether to participate or not. It certainly can't hurt. It also gives people an opportunity to discuss the event with you before hand.

dogwood

chuckinsocal wrote:

It's not likely that a perv would identify himself like that so it would give you some credibility and perhaps the parents a little comfort that you are not some stranger stalking the neighborhood.

Not to get too off-topic, but in reality most physical and sexual abuse of children is perpetrated by someone the child (and their family) already knows-- a relative or close family friend.

Anyways, back on topic. Your idea is interesting, but how much profit are you expecting off it? Keep in mind the computer work you'll be doing. I shoot events (mostly fashion shows) and find the key to making a profit is to shoot many of them over time. A nickel here and a dime there starts to add up. But if I was only shooting them once a year, it wouldn't be worth it.

mmmatt

The more I think about canvasing the neighborhood before hand, the more I like the idea from a sales point of view. It will add cost and time, but a face-to-face contact is far better than a simple shove the picture in the t&t bag approach.

However, the kids who didn't have a slip, or who's parents weren't there to sign one would be bummed that they didn't get a super cool picture like their friend did. I can already see the tears welling up! Longing for their very own 4x6 wall hanger! Imagine the agony in little Jonny's eyes! :cry Just look at him! Poor little fella! Seriously though, I could let kids use my phone to call their parents for permission and I would be comfortable with that.

Also had another thought too... I am going to call my daughters school and see if I can work something out with them for their Halloween party. That is a lot of kids though! I would have to charge enough to scare a good half of them off! Maybe $10 and then donate the money (less supplies maybe) back to the school.

For the record, this isn't all about me getting business. I honestly see this as a nice and unique gift. Regardless of where I do it, it is me putting in a TON of time for a custom made gift. I would hope some people at least would see it as that regardless if it inspires them to send work my way. I once did a tie-dye party for 60 3rd graders at my (former) step daughters school... that was messy! Somewhere I have thankyou card with a picture of 60 kids and 5 teachers all wearing kick butt tie-dyes posing at the zoo, and that more than paid for my time... That was really cool.

Matt

dogwood

mmmatt wrote:

For the record, this isn't all about me getting business. I honestly see this as a nice and unique gift.

Well if it's a gift, you don't really need any tips here.

I would caution you not to develop a reputation as a photographer who provides his services for free or reduced rates though. If you ever change your mind about turning a profit (and who knows when that might happen in this economy?) , it will be very hard to shake the rep as the guy who does it for free.

Nikolai

dogwood wrote:

I would caution you not to develop a reputation as a photographer who provides his services for free or reduced rates though. If you ever change your mind about turning a profit (and who knows when that might happen in this economy?) , it will be very hard to shake the rep as the guy who does it for free.

+1

mmmatt

point noted

mmmatt

For the record, this isn't going to happen this year. Not really for the reasons above but for time reasons. I hooked up with a local wedding studio a week ago and they have me booked for the next two weekends doing some 2nd camera work for them to make sure I actually know what I'm doing, plus a bat mitzvah tomorrow and another wedding I booked on the 25th. Plus, if that isn't enough, another photographer I shoot for sometimes plopped 6 1500-2000 image weddings in my lap for some pp work. I'm a busy guy (good thing!) so this idea is getting back burnered.

matt

Alleh Lindquist

I think it's a pretty good idea. Maybe put a sign out front "Holloween Photos" and jsut make sure everyone can find where you are selling the pictures online.

GerryDavid

So mmmatt, did you ever give this a go? Old thread but I found it when I was searching for something.

Art Scott

yeah I am curious also....do not know how I missed this in 2008....but it looks like it would have been great...I remeber my own kids coming home with polaroid snaps of themselves before the digital era started........I wasn't freaked or bothered in any way......

GerryDavid

This idea wouldnt work for me here or in Canada, way to cold. I do like the idea if it was in a town sponsored event, where you get recognition by the entire town, not just your neighbors. Instead of a print, a digital file would probably be easier, that way they do not have to come back to pick it up, unless you took extra pictures and want to try to upsell.

Im aiming my business at hs seniors and maternity now, so this idea might do better for a valentines day event hosted at a high school. kinda sad how that targets maternity now. I wonder how hard it would be to get a hs to let you be at a dance and have a hallway that is normaly blockd off setup for a portrait. a bit to late to do this year but interesting idea for next year, which I will probably forget about by then.

mmmatt

Ha! I had to reread my original post to even know what this was!!! I did not do the Halloween thing, but I did the Bar Mitzvah party greenscreen and it worked pretty well. I ended up getting everyone wanting to pose at the same time... last minute! I just used psd files and ended up running out of system memory during prints... would do thinks a little different in the future and not concern myself with high res files for "future use" since it needlessly bogged down my lappy, or have an operator to do the editing and pasting. Results were pretty good and the family was happy with the pictures. I didn't get them all printed on site so ended up mailing a couple sets from smugmug and they had them just a couple days after the event. Not an epic fail but not the way I wanted things to go. They understood though becuase they didn't anounce me until literally the last minute and since I was in a hallway people didn't show until I was announced. blah blah blah... lessons learned! Here are the results if anyone is interested. password is feb21 The background is just a collage of images I took of my daughters basketball balanced on a tripod headpost, with a couple different lighting setups, and then layered in PS.