Starting to think about upgrading
Yeah, yeah... I'm hooked :huh:rolleyes:D
XT vs Xsi vs 40d
Throw some perspective at me, folks. I have of course read all the recent threads on this subject, but would welcome some further input.
When I bought the XT two years ago, I knew it was a "step down" in features from my Elan, but it was the best digital option I could afford at the time, so I went with it (I got it just after the XTi was released and it was being phased out by retailers, so got a killer deal on it). I have loved it; it's a great camera.
But every time I use it I'm starting to miss certain things more and more, and am seriously considering upgrading. And here's where it starts to get complicated, because it seems that my "wishlist" spreads across both the xsi AND the 40d..... :rolleyes
Things I miss and/or want:
All of this would suggest the 40d. HOWEVER.... the xsi has one thing that I hugely prefer: it's lighter and smaller. I know that the 40d is better built and more robust, but to me it feels uncomfortably heavy and that's a big deal for me; I know I'd get used to it, but I still consider it a major factor in deciding. I'm not a pro so it won't get that kind of hard use, and it seems to me that the lifecycle is about 2-3 years anyway, so I'm not sure that seriously longterm longevity is that big a deal (or is it? If I'm simply WRONG on this, by all means tell me!)
I would also LOVE a model which has one-button access to flash menu choices (if there is such a thing - having trouble finding this on the spec sheets of either camera, so apologies if it's listed somewhere and I missed it!)
Also, which has better live view (or no difference?)
Lastly, cost. Even a great deal on the 40d is more than the xsi and funds are steeply limited (I'll be selling things to subsidise an upgrade).
All of which leads me to:
Option 1
Xsi + try to find a decent used 50mm 1.4
Option 2
40d w/existing lenses
Option 3
Stick with the XT a litttle longer and upgrade the 50mm and 28-105 lenses instead. (Are there rumours of the next gen of consumer cameras yet? News of any rebates or promos in the run up to Christmas that could help influence a choice? etc etc)
Thoughts?
Thanks so much!
XT vs Xsi vs 40d
Throw some perspective at me, folks. I have of course read all the recent threads on this subject, but would welcome some further input.
When I bought the XT two years ago, I knew it was a "step down" in features from my Elan, but it was the best digital option I could afford at the time, so I went with it (I got it just after the XTi was released and it was being phased out by retailers, so got a killer deal on it). I have loved it; it's a great camera.
But every time I use it I'm starting to miss certain things more and more, and am seriously considering upgrading. And here's where it starts to get complicated, because it seems that my "wishlist" spreads across both the xsi AND the 40d..... :rolleyes
Things I miss and/or want:
- SPOT METER. Nuff said
- thumbwheel on the back (I LOVED that features on my Elan)
- I would also like to be able to manipulate the focusing points more quickly and easily; I find the button arrangement on the XT a bit awkward (I've thought about reassigning it, but I know my butterthumbs and don't want to move it anywehre else, either)
- zippier focusing (although could somebody explain to me how the newer cameras are supposed to focus faster? I thought that was more to do with the lens than the camera, especially with Canon).
- Since I often shoot theater stuff, the higher iso settings I can get, the better.
- I prefer CF to SD cards (I use both in my sound equipment, and have found SD cards to be less reliable, plus they're fiddlier to swap out when in a hurrry)
All of this would suggest the 40d. HOWEVER.... the xsi has one thing that I hugely prefer: it's lighter and smaller. I know that the 40d is better built and more robust, but to me it feels uncomfortably heavy and that's a big deal for me; I know I'd get used to it, but I still consider it a major factor in deciding. I'm not a pro so it won't get that kind of hard use, and it seems to me that the lifecycle is about 2-3 years anyway, so I'm not sure that seriously longterm longevity is that big a deal (or is it? If I'm simply WRONG on this, by all means tell me!)
I would also LOVE a model which has one-button access to flash menu choices (if there is such a thing - having trouble finding this on the spec sheets of either camera, so apologies if it's listed somewhere and I missed it!)
Also, which has better live view (or no difference?)
Lastly, cost. Even a great deal on the 40d is more than the xsi and funds are steeply limited (I'll be selling things to subsidise an upgrade).
All of which leads me to:
Option 1
Xsi + try to find a decent used 50mm 1.4
Option 2
40d w/existing lenses
Option 3
Stick with the XT a litttle longer and upgrade the 50mm and 28-105 lenses instead. (Are there rumours of the next gen of consumer cameras yet? News of any rebates or promos in the run up to Christmas that could help influence a choice? etc etc)
Thoughts?
Thanks so much!
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I don't find the 40D to be uncomfortably heavy. I purposefully stayed away from the XT line when getting my first DSLR because I felt they were too small and cramped. Ya gotta have room for that great wheel you want!
The 40D has a nice menu system, IMO. You can choose certain menu items to place on a custom "My Menu" and have that be the first screen that pops up when you press the menu button. (I've also made my "set" button go to the menu.) I have the flash settings chosen for My Menu so it's quick and easy to get there and adjust.
EDIT: You can either get used to the size of the 40D or get used to missing all those features you listed. Kinda boils it down, I think...
Comments and constructive critique always welcome!
Elaine Heasley Photography
i know, im no help:D
The reason that a camera body can make a difference in AF, both speed and accuracy, is because while the lens has the AF motor and optical elements, the host camera has both the AF sensor and the AF processor.
The 40D AF is considered an upgrade to the XSi AF. The 40D has a better shutter mechanism and ISO 3200. I suggest that the 40D might be a better match for you in terms of familiarity of controls and features useful for low-light photography.
Moderator of the Cameras and Accessories forums
Whoops - somehow I managed to inadvertently edit that out when I was writing....
I have:
50mm 1.8
28-105 usm (which I've been considering trading in/up for a while anyway)
55-250 efs
70-210 EF (ollllddd lens, but still plenty of life in it and use it sometimes in preference to the efs just for the different quality it captures)
Edited to add: thanks for the explanation of the camera's AF - that makes sense now
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Yeah, I hear the logic of this and have thought about it - there's a lot to be said for it. But then I think that the things I'm finding limiting aren't, ultimately, image quality - this gear gets some great images when I do it right! - but consistency of getting my fingers to push the right buttons at the right time, and getting the functions of the camera where I can get AT them at the right time.
Maybe I should just go back to the Pentax ME Super and call it a day.....:help:giggle:hide
You could use some better lenses, so how much of your money may we spend for you?
Constant aperture zoom lenses of f2.8 would be a benefit as would some more fast primes.
Moderator of the Cameras and Accessories forums
Far too little, alas!! Depending on how much I can garner from sales, I'm really only looking at maybe $600 or so to spend (maybe a little more if Santa is nice and brings me gift certificates!)
The one I'd really like to upgrade is the 28-105. I've learned how to make it work for me and get some good shots with it, but I KNOW there are better options out there in that focal range.
I'm loving working with the 50mm right now, I just get frustrated by the 1.8's tendency to hunt in less than perfect conditions (plus it's noisy). Hence why I was thinking of possibly trying to add a 50mm 1.4 into this mix.
And the 50-250 for all that it's a plastic EFS is really a pretty impressive performer, particularly in sharpness. Like the 50mm 1.8 it can hunt around, but somehow it bothers me less (probably because I'm usually using it in brighter light and thus don't have to deal with the limitations on that front as much....). I'm pretty happy with this one, actually. And the old 70-210 is one I want to keep as well - lots of reasons, including its provenance (total doofus confession here, but it was my first Canon lens and I was so poor at the time that I scrimped and saved to get it 2ndhand, and it's kind of iconic - that was really the purchase that started it all for me, and since it still performs, I can't bring myself to get rid of it
Sigh. Anybody want to make donations to an equipment-starved opera singer!?
The Tamron 28-75mm, F/2.8 XR Di LD Aspherical (IF) is a very nice zoom and a reasonable price.
That and the Canon EF 50mm, f1.4 USM, along with what you have, could keep you going for some time.
Moderator of the Cameras and Accessories forums
::after googling and reading for an hour::
Actually... you may be on to something there, since I see that there are still 30d's out there available as refurbs in addition to used ones... Hmm.....
Speak to me of the 30d. Would it fall behind in terms of IQ now that the 50d is Digic 9-zillion-and-4 and has all the extra goodies? What's good about it? How does it compare with the XT?
Intrigued by this possibility, which I hadn't previously considered.... (the possibility of affording a camera with a thumbwheel AND a new lens? That could be SWEET!)
:encore i know i know...
anyway, (pointing out this link is the least i can do for Scott a guy that helps this forum so much)
ask Scott about the 30D: http://dgrin.com/showthread.php?t=109662
and this guy about the lens: http://dgrin.com/showthread.php?p=952238#post952238
The 30D:
- 8.2MP sensor - ok, not that many dots, but it's the quality of the dots that count and the 20D/30D sensor is no slouch. BTW - the difference between 12.2MP and 8.2MP, it sound bigger and better than it really is and will have no real, discernable impact of print quality up to at least 8"x10" print sizes (and I think I could successfully argue the same for even larger prints).
- If you take a look at any of the photos (aside from the IRs which were taken with either a modified XT or a modified 20D) that I've posted, they are all shot with the 30D. You can also take a look at this gallery for an idea of what I can do with this camera - most will be able to do a lot better
- All the controls you are looking for are there on the 30D.
- The shot buffer - it's a 9 RAW shot buffer. This makes firing off a string of shots possible. I don't know what that equates to in JPG shots as I don't shoot JPG
- You can get a pretty good review of the 30D on Steve's Digicams review site.
- The weight difference between the 30D and the XSi is not much, (700g vs. 475g, 24.7oz vs 16.8oz) and it's very easy to get used to.
- For me, be biggest difference between the dRebel series and the XXD series is the way they feel in my hand. While not huge, my hands are large enough that they get cramped on the dRebel cameras (I know, I started out with the 300D, the original dRebel
).
The take-away: Upgrade when the camera you have is limiting you (you've got that covered). And, don't upgrade to a camera with more of the same. In many respects, the XSi is just more of the same XT, with some more bells and whistles.BTW- I'm selling off my 30D because there are two features that I need for my Wedding Photography business that are not in the 30D. I've been limping along with what the 30D provides since I got it. If the 30D had what I needed or if there wasn't a camera out there that did (that I could afford), I still would not be upgrading. But, the 50D came out and turns out to meet my current needs - wonder how long it'll be before I find something that the 50D doesn't do that I need.:D
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Dude, that lens is outside my TOTAL budget (if I get the prices I want for my old gear AND consider selling an arm or a leg!!)
Seriously, I'd love a lens like that but... not this time around. But thanks for the ideas (gee, yeah, thanks - just put me into massive "upgrade envy" mode
Thanks so much for taking the time with that detailed response. I'll definitely be throwing that great info into the mix as I think this through!
Just out of curiosity, which were the two features you needed and which prompted your upgrade? Just wondering
Thanks again!
- AF MicroAdjust (to help get the lenses as close to spot-on as possible)
- HighTone Priority (an attempt to help prevent blowing out the bride's gown)
- High ISO Performance (not as much, but very important)
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Since Canon took top panel LCD camera info away with the X (I think) this was the nail in the coffin for anyone who NEEDS to know camera settings at a glance. I've used his cameras, and this drives me bananas. From week 3 of ownership of my 20D my focus points have been set on the multi-controller direct for all of my cameras, anything else would be like photographing with a sharpend stick. I don't find the focusing speed of the XT objectionable but the fastest thing I have to track is a bride and groom making their escape from the church. Faster focussing is accomplished by better/more focusing sensors including more cross type sensors (responsive to lines in horizontal and vertical orientation). The ISO arguement in my opinion is one of the weaker arguements for the X/D series cameras. The X series cameras lack the super high ISO abilities that the D series have, I think the XT goes only to 800 or 1600 rather than the H (3200) of the D series, but the 3200 is almost unusable anyway (it is take a pic for the sake of taking a pic territory, I use it for shooting people watching video motages, and hugs during the sign of peace). Quality wise the 800 ISO output from an X
series camera (processed raw) is comparable to that of a D series (the 20/30/40/50 not the big boys D).
That being said...here are my recommendations.
Don't buy a 30D, yes it has a spot meter, believe me...you won't use it. You MAY think you will...but you won't. If you aren't already shooting raw, you will be, and soon after you will realize that spot on exposure is less critical than it used to be, and bracketing will take you VERY far. The 30D is REALLY only a big screen 20D with a spot meter. I'd pick up a 40D new or used, the 40D is a truly modern DSLR with very smooth Digic III images, live view, and all the other gingerbread you want. I still use my 30D for most of my work, but that is because I'm trying to kill it (rather than using it as a backup to the relatively new 40D) my theory of a backup camera says you should have the MORE reliable/newer camera as a backup. I'm also not particularly happy with the WB of the LCD of the 40D, the images out of the camera are fine but the LCD still looks a little purple in the whites especially compared directly to the LCD of my 30D. Anywho if you want a real LCD of camera settings/spot/direct focal point control/live view and all the rest....save your pennies for a 40D or go in hock for a 50.
I will say, too, that I haven't entirely ruled out the XSi. While I accept that it's still in the "entry level" bracket with all that implies, with the exception of the thumbwheel it seems to have many of the features I would like - the ISO performance looks improved over the XT (still only 1600, but the samples I've seen look better), it has live view, it has a spot meter (point taken blurmore, and I'll definitely bear that in mind as perhaps something I don't need to fixate on so much!), 9pt autofocus with the higher sensitivity and the menus appear to be a bit more navigable. Also, one of the other features I really want (forgot to mention this in my first post) is sensor cleaning, and it has that too. I could live with SD even though it's not my preference (I have many cards, so it's not big impediment, I just like CF better). And it would mean I could keep my RC1 remote, too which is a small but nice bonus. If I can find the right price, it might be the way to step forward as an interim measure en route to the next generation of prosumer models, and I could continue the rolling upgrade of my glass as well....
HOWEVER (and it's a big however): NO decision has been made yet - the other models are still very appealing if I can put together the extra money, and I think I need to go and handle them all again before I can go much further in the process.
Thanks again to everybody for their input... and for letting me "think out loud" as I make my decision "
The issue I've experienced with EVERY new dSLR is that in the first few months of use out of the box the sensor get's contaminated with gunk - stuff that does't shake off. No amount of blowing, brushing, etc moves this stuff - I think it's "spare" lubricant from the assembly process atomizing and settling on the sensor when the shutter is open.
After a couple or six months, the incidence of this gunk declines in radical fashion - but by then you've figured out that cleaning the sensor is no big deal. After this "break in period", I think that's when the sensor shaking technology may pay off. I don't know as I'm not there yet with my 50D.
What would be really cool, instead of the sensor shaking technology, is some sort of little robot in the mirror box with a wet rag and a squeegee
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Hate to disagree with you on this one but I do. I run a photo studio and use two Olympus DSLRs. My brother does some photo on the side with his Canon DSLR. Every couple months we get together for a weekend shootout. At those we usually test our cameras for dust so we can clean the sensors prior to the trip. I work professionally and use my cameras and change lenses regularly, and he does it only periodically. Yet, I have NEVER had to clean my sensor - in 3 years of using Olympus DSLRs professionally. And trust me, we thoroughly check. My brother usually has to clean his every 6-12 months. So, I really do believe that the sensor cleaning technology makes a difference. Now, that said - cleaning a sensor every 6-12 months is really not a big deal.
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btw, apparently some cameras/users/enviroments are worse than others for dust..i clean my sensor once a month...oddly enough, i go out shooting once a month...and i take precautions when switching lenses...UGH!
I stopped by our local camera store today so I could play around with stuff. They didn't have a 30d, alas, but I did get to play with a 40d and an xsi. I have to say that - to my surprise - I was really impressed by the Xsi. Yes, an X series, but the feature set is a big jump from the XT and it was overall a much nicer camera than I was expecting it to be. I know y'all will think I'm nuts if that's the direction I wind up going, but the screen is beautiful and, taken on balance with the cost savings, it's back in the ring as a serious contender for me.
After all my whining about the too-big 40d, I actually found the xsi a little too small (it's smaller than the XT), but it still felt better in the hand for me than the 40d does. On handling it, I don't think the Xsi is a "toy" camera at all, which is kind of what I expected for some reason - it was extremely zippy to focus, the new button layout (vs the XT) is much easier to navigate - as are the menus (which also have the "my menu" screen, as on the 40D) and, given that there's a 24-30 month upgrade cycle inherent in electronics, if I can find a good price on one I think it may be a viable choice to fill in some of the things I'd like until I'm ready to make a BIG jump up.
I can't take the plunge on *anything* just yet anyway so I have plenty of time to change my mind again (and again, and again... lol), but just thought I'd post my first impressions.
So. Continuing to think, and look around, and see what the piggy bank and Santa can put together for me!!!
Thanks again, everybody - you guys are the best
Edited to add: one thing I did meant to mention is that the 40d viewfinder is soooo much nicer than the X series - that was the one thing I liked a LOT better about the more expensive model!!
unless your doing weddings or sports i think any body will do fine...
i wish they made a FF XT but with even more plastic (seriously)....
Why the plastic (weight? Cost?) Genuine question here, not being snarky
And I agree with you about lenses - I'm essentially in a rolling upgrade at the moment and every time I jump up to a new level of lens I realise how much better it is!! If I keep the $ down on a body, I can possibly invest in some of the new glass I want to go with it..........:D
I just upgraded to the 50D.
Regards,
Dan
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heres what i care about. (besides beautiful light) IQ, Dynamic Range, Megapixel count, equipment weight.
i want "L" glass lighter, a 1DsMIII as light as my P&S, and a Tripod that is levitates by my side when hiking.
oh, i wouldnt mind a jet pack to get me around quickly too....
Can't you use the force?
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