First wedding - few questions

rsparts

I have a wedding I'm supposed to shoot in June '09 and I'm preparing myself for it now. It's not my very first wedding...more like my 2.5th one. I shot my sisters wedding back in Sept. and I did the "friend with a camera" thing at my friends wedding a few months before that. All can be seen here http://www.rspartsphoto.com/Weddings

Anyway the brides dad is a good friend of my dad and he told me "When I saw your work, I knew it had to be you". The $500 price tag probably didn't hurt either. Her dad is a pro-photographer (shoots for car mags) and so I guess he knows what he wants. I really want to prepare properly for this event.

My question is: Are there particular lenses that you wedding photographers take to your jobs? Specifically what lenses do you use for what? ie...processional, kiss, candid shots, etc...

Right now I have a Nikon D300 with a 18-55 3.5 (cruddy old kit lens), 50mm 1.8, and a 28-75 2.8. I also have a Vivitar 285HV for my flash. I'm debating wether or not to rent a 70-200 2.8 for this.

I'm really trying to prep for this thing as I desperately want to do a good job. Feel free to include any other shooting tips as I'm making it a point to practice using my sister as a bride for the next few months. I've check out a lot of the info on this site - been reading a lot and looking at A LOT of wedding photos to help with ideas. *biting fingernails* please help

I'm convinced I can take a good photo. My problem is that I'm better with still life where I can take my time and shoot when I'm ready. When I start photographing live action, like a wedding, I tense up and worry too much about missing "that shot". I use the shotgun effect in this case where I snap off about 20 frames of the same moment and hope for a good one. It may be amateur but hey, I'm an amateur.

sherijohnson

I am confident you will do a great job. You have some good images on your site.

Scott_Quier

A couple of thoughts. First, read my thoughts on shooting a wedding (see my siggy). The second, read what you find here - Tim is a NZ wedding photographer who's work I respect. I think you will find a wealth of information there....

If you have an particular questions feel free to post them. I'm sure someone will have the answers.

Good luck and have fun!!!

rsparts

sherijohnson wrote:

I am confident you will do a great job. You have some good images on your site.

Thanks I appreciate it

Scott_Quier wrote:

A couple of thoughts. First, read my thoughts on shooting a wedding (see my siggy). The second, read what you find here - Tim is a NZ wedding photographer who's work I respect. I think you will find a wealth of information there....

If you have an particular questions feel free to post them. I'm sure someone will have the answers.

Good luck and have fun!!!

Yeah I read your thoughts on weddings - it helped a lot. I'll check out Tim's work today at lunch. Thanks

bandgeekndb

I've never shot a wedding with my gear, but almost every time I read through wedding posts, the 70-200 f/2.8 comes up somewhere. It just seems to be one heck of a useful lens and I like the idea of staying out of the action and being able to zoom in!

It's not that much to rent, I almost did it and I'm sure you'd be happy with the results!

~Nick

Scott_Quier

rsparts wrote:

My question is: Are there particular lenses that you wedding photographers take to your jobs? Specifically what lenses do you use for what? ie...processional, kiss, candid shots, etc...

Right now I have a Nikon D300 with a 18-55 3.5 (cruddy old kit lens), 50mm 1.8, and a 28-75 2.8. I also have a Vivitar 285HV for my flash. I'm debating wether or not to rent a 70-200 2.8 for this.

Your idea to hire a 70-200 f/2.8 is a very good one. I don't remember the Nikon version of IS (VR?) but you need to rent one with that feature - it can turn a untenable situation into a workable scenario. Believe me, you will use the 70-200!

Your 28mm will probably be to long for some/much of what happens at a reception. I worked two weddings with a Tammy 28-75 f/2.8 and found myself to be quite cramped on occasion. I use a 17-55 f/2.8 IS on a Canon 50D and find that the 17mm is, sometimes, still too long.

rsparts wrote:

I'm really trying to prep for this thing as I desperately want to do a good job. Feel free to include any other shooting tips as I'm making it a point to practice using my sister as a bride for the next few months. I've check out a lot of the info on this site - been reading a lot and looking at A LOT of wedding photos to help with ideas. *biting fingernails* please help

I'm convinced I can take a good photo. My problem is that I'm better with still life where I can take my time and shoot when I'm ready. When I start photographing live action, like a wedding, I tense up and worry too much about missing "that shot". I use the shotgun effect in this case where I snap off about 20 frames of the same moment and hope for a good one. It may be amateur but hey, I'm an amateur.

"Spray and Pray" is usually not a good tactic. First, at the reception, your flash will not be able to keep up. Second, you will drain multiple sets of batteries attempting to do so. Need to be a little more selective.

Preparing for a wedding - you need to know the critical few things you have to capture and what order they will occur. Do you have any friends who are getting married soon. How about in your church. Clear it with the officiant and the couple but maybe see if you can sit in the back and observe (of course, be dressed for the occassion - don't want to draw unwated attention to yourself). If there's a paid photographer at the(se) wedding(s), take note of the good and bad things he/she is doing and use that information to figure out what you will be (want to) do.

The reception. There are a few things you have to get and get right

• The first dance(s) - B&G, B w/ FOB, G w/ MOG
• The garter hunt
• The garter toss
• The bouquet toss
• The cake cutting and all the fun that sometimes ensues
• The preparation of the get-away car - if they do this
• The get-away - if they do/want this as some don't

In addition, the photos from the reception should be about the interaction amongst guests and between the B/G and their guests. Also, some of the dancing is almost a requirement - especially if they've gone to the trouble/expense of a DJ and there is significant activity on the dance floor.

The bottom line is that you have to practice. This can be a simulation/mental activity (based on observations) or it can be you actually shooting (but get permission first).

That's about all I can say at this point. HTH

TonyL

If you can muster one, up, a backup body and flash are a must godforbid something goes wrong.
Scott has an excellent post which has saved me a lot of time.
Thanks Scott!

rsparts

Scott_Quier wrote:

Your idea to hire a 70-200 f/2.8 is a very good one.

Your 28mm will probably be to long for some/much of what happens at a reception. I worked two weddings with a Tammy 28-75 f/2.8 and found myself to be quite cramped on occasion. I use a 17-55 f/2.8

Lots of good info, thanks - phew... 70-200 2.8 (~$1700), 17-55 2.8 (~$1000), extra body (probably D200(~$1000))...hmm that's ....math skills kicking in...almost $4000 in rental equipment. Looks like I'm springing for a small loan from my credit union. I'm actually saving up for the 70-200 2.8 to purchase anyway since I'm getting into photojournalism. wow...ok I have some prepping to do not only mentally but physically and monetarily.

TonyL

rsparts wrote:

Lots of good info, thanks - phew... 70-200 2.8 (~$1700), 17-55 2.8 (~$1000), extra body (probably D200(~$1000))...hmm that's ....math skills kicking in...almost $4000 in rental equipment. Looks like I'm springing for a small loan from my credit union. I'm actually saving up for the 70-200 2.8 to purchase anyway since I'm getting into photojournalism. wow...ok I have some prepping to do not only mentally but physically and monetarily.

try local shops for rentals on gear.
I borrowed a friend who is a fellow olympus shooter until I bought my E-3.
A little at a time.

rsparts

cadguru wrote:

try local shops for rentals on gear.
I borrowed a friend who is a fellow olympus shooter until I bought my E-3.
A little at a time.

I think I'd be better off hitting up some pawn shops with those prices - wow. I don't want to skimp on the brand either so I'm definitely going with nikon gear.

TonyL

rsparts wrote:

I think I'd be better off hitting up some pawn shops with those prices - wow. I don't want to skimp on the brand either so I'm definitely going with nikon gear.

what you saying Olympus is bad

rsparts

cadguru wrote:

what you saying Olympus is bad

no but I shoot a Nikon body - I don't think Olympus lenses would help me at all

TonyL

rsparts wrote:

no but I shoot a Nikon body - I don't think Olympus lenses would help me at all

touche

look here

http://prophotorental.com/Default.asp?c=173937

rsparts

cadguru wrote:

touche

look here

http://prophotorental.com/Default.asp?c=173937

Thanks but to avoid rental fees I actually buy the equipment from the store and then return it soon after the event. I was told to do so by the manager at the local photo shop here in town. I don't know how I feel about it but she assures me that is how everyone does it. I've never done it like that before so I'm a little uneasy

TonyL

rsparts wrote:

Thanks but to avoid rental fees I actually buy the equipment from the store and then return it soon after the event. I was told to do so by the manager at the local photo shop here in town. I don't know how I feel about it but she assures me that is how everyone does it. I've never done it like that before so I'm a little uneasy

That's deceiving no?
Sorry to go off topic, now back to our regularly scheduled topic

rsparts

cadguru wrote:

That's deceiving no?
Sorry to go off topic, now back to our regularly scheduled topic

yes it is - i agree but the girl (manager) practically begged me to come back and "rent" equipment from her

Scott_Quier

rsparts wrote:

yes it is - i agree but the girl (manager) practically begged me to come back and "rent" equipment from her

There must be a $$ reason why she would do this. I'm thinking that she can claim the lens came back as a return and then buys it from the manufacturer at a significant discount. Then she turns it around and puts it on the rental block. Maybe she's trying to start up a rental side-line on the cheap? I don't know if this is even close, but the idea just kinda snuck into what passes for my brain.

angevin1

Scott_Quier wrote:

There must be a $$ reason why she would do this. I'm thinking that she can claim the lens came back as a return and then buys it from the manufacturer at a significant discount. Then she turns it around and puts it on the rental block. Maybe she's trying to start up a rental side-line on the cheap? I don't know if this is even close, but the idea just kinda snuck into what passes for my brain.

Good One Scott! usually follow the money trail...and there usually always is one., so yeah, I'd be a bit shy or at least thorough on my purchase to return..besides if it falls or gets goofed or stolen, you're out!

Besides, I use the tamaron 17-50, which is tack sharp on the Nikon and is to be had for under five-hundred new or less used....and as Scott said, sometimes even that range (17mm-..) still feels too long....But extra bodies are a must, and a D200 can be had for much less than you mention...I just sold mine for $600 four weeks ago. I like extra bodies just to have lenses already mounted on and having an extra shooter is a must too, I believe....

So follow these great suggestions from the other posters and fortunately, you have a nice long time to prepare~

cheers, tom

rsparts

angevin1 wrote:

Good One Scott! usually follow the money trail...and there usually always is one., so yeah, I'd be a bit shy or at least thorough on my purchase to return..besides if it falls or gets goofed or stolen, you're out!

Besides, I use the tamaron 17-50, which is tack sharp on the Nikon and is to be had for under five-hundred new or less used....and as Scott said, sometimes even that range (17mm-..) still feels too long....But extra bodies are a must, and a D200 can be had for much less than you mention...I just sold mine for $600 four weeks ago. I like extra bodies just to have lenses already mounted on and having an extra shooter is a must too, I believe....

So follow these great suggestions from the other posters and fortunately, you have a nice long time to prepare~

cheers, tom

Don't have another D200 body laying around do ya? I'll have to keep my eye out for a deal like that

Doing the math, I might just buy the stuff I need...even if I buy Tamron or Sigma - if I ever do another wedding, I'll need it again anyway. As I said before, I'm going to need the 70-200 2.8 as I'm getting into photojournalism. My wife looked at me cross eyed when I told her how much all the equipment I'm going to need for this wedding costs.

Scott_Quier

rsparts wrote:

Don't have another D200 body laying around do ya? I'll have to keep my eye out for a deal like that

Doing the math, I might just buy the stuff I need...even if I buy Tamron or Sigma - if I ever do another wedding, I'll need it again anyway. As I said before, I'm going to need the 70-200 2.8 as I'm getting into photojournalism. My wife looked at me cross eyed when I told her how much all the equipment I'm going to need for this wedding costs.

As you are open to doing more photographic business, actaully starting a photographic business might be an idea to investigate. Get youself a good small business accountant and talk it over with him/her. You may find that with just a little extra work, you can legally have your business buy the equipment, expense it, etc. The downside is that, in the general case (there are sure to be exceptions) your expenses can't exceed your revenues.

But, get find a good accountant, pay for his/her time, and get some good advice - it will be money well spent just to investigate your alternatives.

rsparts

Scott_Quier wrote:

As you are open to doing more photographic business, actaully starting a photographic business might be an idea to investigate. Get youself a good small business accountant and talk it over with him/her. You may find that with just a little extra work, you can legally have your business buy the equipment, expense it, etc. The downside is that, in the general case (there are sure to be exceptions) your expenses can't exceed your revenues.

But, get find a good accountant, pay for his/her time, and get some good advice - it will be money well spent just to investigate your alternatives.

I don't make squat doing this stuff so my expenses would always exceed my revenues

davidjay

rsparts wrote:

My question is: Are there particular lenses that you wedding photographers take to your jobs? Specifically what lenses do you use for what? ie...processional, kiss, candid shots, etc...

Right now I have a Nikon D300 with a 18-55 3.5 (cruddy old kit lens), 50mm 1.8, and a 28-75 2.8. I also have a Vivitar 285HV for my flash. I'm debating wether or not to rent a 70-200 2.8 for this.

Awesome! You're gonna rock. I'd suggest grabbing that 70-200. I shoot most of the day with the 16-35 and the 70-200 and I almost always skip the mid length lens. Your 18-55 can get you just about everything and then use the 70-200 for all the times you want to play sniper and be outside the action like during the kiss and for a lot of the candid shots.

TonyL

Scott_Quier wrote:

As you are open to doing more photographic business, actaully starting a photographic business might be an idea to investigate. Get youself a good small business accountant and talk it over with him/her. You may find that with just a little extra work, you can legally have your business buy the equipment, expense it, etc. The downside is that, in the general case (there are sure to be exceptions) your expenses can't exceed your revenues.

But, get find a good accountant, pay for his/her time, and get some good advice - it will be money well spent just to investigate your alternatives.

Thats exactly what I did, and it already saved me a headache with another photographer advertising their "business" during my contracted event. I put business in quotes because that person doesn't have a registered business but advertises as such.
Spend the $$ upfront as Scott suggested. I now have insurance on the business, which protects my company in case of injury, a child falling, client not happy, you name it.

I changed the channel AGAIN!:banned

back to the regular channel...errr topic.

rsparts

davidjay wrote:

Awesome! You're gonna rock. I'd suggest grabbing that 70-200. I shoot most of the day with the 16-35 and the 70-200 and I almost always skip the mid length lens. Your 18-55 can get you just about everything and then use the 70-200 for all the times you want to play sniper and be outside the action like during the kiss and for a lot of the candid shots.

thanks man I'm still a bit nervous...I'll be honest, I've yet to shoot an event with a flash. The extent of my flash work has been a few minutes of goofing around with it during an advertising shoot for a local screen printing business here in town. I really need to find a site or page that explains the cut and dry way of using a flash during a wedding. I've been shooting since March and I can't believe I've yet to learn how to effectively use one.

Elaine

rsparts wrote:

thanks man I'm still a bit nervous...I'll be honest, I've yet to shoot an event with a flash. The extent of my flash work has been a few minutes of goofing around with it during an advertising shoot for a local screen printing business here in town. I really need to find a site or page that explains the cut and dry way of using a flash during a wedding. I've been shooting since March and I can't believe I've yet to learn how to effectively use one.

Check out some of the pages on Planet Neil.

rsparts

Elaine wrote:

Check out some of the pages on Planet Neil.

thanks!:D

rsparts

does anyone else have any tips on fill flash and lighting techniques? don't just post strobist.com b/c I know where to find it. What I need is a site that cuts through the BS and gets down and dirty with techniques and tips. anyone? anyone?

davidjay

rsparts wrote:

thanks man I'm still a bit nervous...I'll be honest, I've yet to shoot an event with a flash. The extent of my flash work has been a few minutes of goofing around with it during an advertising shoot for a local screen printing business here in town. I really need to find a site or page that explains the cut and dry way of using a flash during a wedding. I've been shooting since March and I can't believe I've yet to learn how to effectively use one.

Don't worry. I've been shooting for about 10 years and I still don't know how to effectively use one either! Shoot natural light as much as possible. Crank the ISO. 90% of the time I like a "grainy" looking image shot with natural light more than one where I tried to pop in my own flash. Especially at a wedding where you don't have the time to mess around with it.

During a dark reception do a lot of experimenting with "shutter dragging" - Start with these settings and then play around mostly with the Shutter speed:
Flash ETTL
ISO: 400-800
Aperture: 4.0 - 5.6
Shutter: 1/10th - 1/50th

You'll get some fun shots and learn a lot in the process.

Rock on,
DJ

rsparts

davidjay wrote:

Don't worry. I've been shooting for about 10 years and I still don't know how to effectively use one either! Shoot natural light as much as possible. Crank the ISO. 90% of the time I like a "grainy" looking image shot with natural light more than one where I tried to pop in my own flash. Especially at a wedding where you don't have the time to mess around with it.

During a dark reception do a lot of experimenting with "shutter dragging" - Start with these settings and then play around mostly with the Shutter speed:
Flash ETTL
ISO: 400-800
Aperture: 4.0 - 5.6
Shutter: 1/10th - 1/50th

You'll get some fun shots and learn a lot in the process.

Rock on,
DJ

That's what I was concerned about - having to quickly reset things while all the craziness is slipping away. I'll check out that shutter drag thing. thanks

Now...ETTL - can you explain a little bit? Should I use it with off camera flash or just on board flash? Or should I screw the on board all together? You can see I have very little flash experience.

davidjay

rsparts wrote:

That's what I was concerned about - having to quickly reset things while all the craziness is slipping away. I'll check out that shutter drag thing. thanks

Now...ETTL - can you explain a little bit? Should I use it with off camera flash or just on board flash? Or should I screw the on board all together? You can see I have very little flash experience.

I use it with On-Camera flash and a Stofen OmniBounce on the flash and the flash pointed up.

Here's a picture of me shooting and how the flash looks and my asst. shutter dragged a shot of me.

rsparts

davidjay wrote:

I use it with On-Camera flash and a Stofen OmniBounce on the flash and the flash pointed up.

Here's a picture of me shooting and how the flash looks and my asst. shutter dragged a shot of me.

ah ok thats how I have it set up now. thanks for clarifying